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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 20:24:15 GMT
This distinction between 'hardcore vs casual' gamers and 'AAA vs mobile' games seems silly. It's an arbitrary distinction. Unless someone has demographic data on the ME player base, then the only numbers that CAN be used are the general 'game player' data. You can't argue that a data set doesn't apply unless you can back that up. 'I'd bet that' doesn't count as evidence.
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Post by grillcheesekeldon on Feb 2, 2017 1:23:21 GMT
IDK I went through a phase when the only games I played where League, COD and sports games. Not sure I would have really considered myself a gamer back then. Hardcore gamers are a rare breed really. I beg to differ. I would say in this day and age, hardcore gamers are a more common breed, whilst genuine gamers are rarer. For example, someone who puts thousands of hours into COD, Candy Crush, League of Legends, DOTA 2..etc.. almost exclusively, becoming a total expert, with the toughest challenges won are hardcore. They also number by the huge millions. However, they aren't really gamers as they have no interest in anything else or even "games" beyond that title or a fixed scope (like Triple AAA-only or Casual-only). I view gamers as people who are passionate about the concept of gaming. The kind who are naturally excited to take on/delve into a myriad of genres across a range, exploring different titles (of course, that said, there is no such thing as anyone liking everything), because, you know, they actually like gaming.
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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Post by Mihura on Feb 2, 2017 1:29:37 GMT
Hardcore gamers are a rare breed really. I beg to differ. I would say in this day and age, hardcore gamers are a more common breed, whilst genuine gamers are rarer. For example, someone who puts thousands of hours into COD, Candy Crush, League of Legends, DOTA 2..etc.. almost exclusively, becoming a total expert, with the toughest challenges won are hardcore. They also number by the huge millions. However, they aren't really gamers as they have no interest in anything else or even "games" beyond that title or a fixed scope (like Triple AAA-only or Casual-only). I view gamers as people who are passionate about the concept of gaming. The kind who are naturally excited to take on/delve into a myriad of genres across a range, exploring different titles (of course, that said, there is no such thing as anyone liking everything), because, you know, they actually like gaming. Oh but I though hardcore gamers were people that had that as a hobby and experiment anything, and not really how many hours you have of Fifa.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 2, 2017 12:20:15 GMT
I occasionally play hidden object games on my mobile, so I'm a gamer.
I also occasionally write forum posts, so I'm a writer.
It's all good.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 2, 2017 12:58:42 GMT
I occasionally play hidden object games on my mobile, so I'm a gamer. I also occasionally write forum posts, so I'm a writer. It's all good. Rebuttal. If you have a driver's license, you're a driver, don't need to make a career or hobby out of it. There's gamer "The Hobbyist" and gamer "The person that consumes games". Since AAA games need to target the second group, otherwise they wouldn't be financially viable, that second definition is frankly the only relevant one in this discussion. They can't afford to target just the hardcore gamer or experimentalist. Not to mention the general, second, definition (one who plays games), is the strictest literal interpretation of the word "gamer". In any case, what qualities define the hobbyist gamer are clearly nebulous, as evidenced by the recent discussion, such that trying to nail down that group as a whole is a useless gesture.
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Post by fialka on Feb 2, 2017 14:32:46 GMT
A fun little anecdote from my own life, recently. Since I imagine the 'problem' here is the notion that A. most 'real' gamers are young (if you're over the age of 30 raise your hand! *raises hand*) B. a big chunk of that 41% of female gamers number comes from playing Candy Crush and such *looks around the forum and sees tons of women*.
A couple weeks ago I was at work. I was chatting with a couple guys at the break table and somehow the topic of gaming came up. Suddenly the girls at the next table over who'd been chatting about who posted what on Instagram chimed in. One asked if any of us had played the new Resident Evil because it was, in her words, 'awesome,' another mentioned that Red Dead Redemption was her favorite game of all time and she was currently playing Uncharted. When I asked if they'd heard about the new Mass Effect coming out, one was super excited and the other admitted she'd never played the old ones, and asked what it was about. Now, I like to think of myself as a person who doesn't buy into stereotypes, but these were not the type of girls (and I'm using that term loosely - both were in their mid-to-late twenties) I'd have expected to be playing games like these. Hell, I've seen them playing crap like Candy Crush on their phones at work. Had someone told me they were 'gamers' (as in the types who play AAA games) before then I wouldn't have believed it.
Last year I remember telling an older female manager (I'd put her in the late 30s) after a rough day that I was gonna go home, drink beer, and play video games. She was like, 'oh, what kind of games do you play!?' Now, she was mostly into Mario Cart and The SIMS and stuff like that, but she'd also played every Zelda game ever made. So while her taste was about as opposite of mine as you could get, once again here you have this older woman you wouldn't guess was a gamer, playing AAA titles.
My point is, this perception that the majority of 'real' gamers are young and male is becoming more and more outdated. And as we see more games coming out with cool storylines and great voice acting and diverse casts of characters, more people are going to be playing them. Even if there is a case to be made that those percentages in the poll are a bit skewed thanks to mobile games and such, I don't think it makes as much of an impact as some might believe.
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 2, 2017 15:42:17 GMT
A fun little anecdote from my own life, recently. Since I imagine the 'problem' here is the notion that A. most 'real' gamers are young ( if you're over the age of 30 raise your hand! *raises hand*) B. a big chunk of that 41% of female gamers number comes from playing Candy Crush and such *looks around the forum and sees tons of women*. A couple weeks ago I was at work. I was chatting with a couple guys at the break table and somehow the topic of gaming came up. Suddenly the girls at the next table over who'd been chatting about who posted what on Instagram chimed in. One asked if any of us had played the new Resident Evil because it was, in her words, 'awesome,' another mentioned that Red Dead Redemption was her favorite game of all time and she was currently playing Uncharted. When I asked if they'd heard about the new Mass Effect coming out, one was super excited and the other admitted she'd never played the old ones, and asked what it was about. Now, I like to think of myself as a person who doesn't buy into stereotypes, but these were not the type of girls (and I'm using that term loosely - both were in their mid-to-late twenties) I'd have expected to be playing games like these. Hell, I've seen them playing crap like Candy Crush on their phones at work. Had someone told me they were 'gamers' (as in the types who play AAA games) before then I wouldn't have believed it. Last year I remember telling an older female manager (I'd put her in the late 30s) after a rough day that I was gonna go home, drink beer, and play video games. She was like, 'oh, what kind of games do you play!?' Now, she was mostly into Mario Cart and The SIMS and stuff like that, but she'd also played every Zelda game ever made. So while her taste was about as opposite of mine as you could get, once again here you have this older woman you wouldn't guess was a gamer, playing AAA titles. My point is, this perception that the majority of 'real' gamers are young and male is becoming more and more outdated. And as we see more games coming out with cool storylines and great voice acting and diverse casts of characters, more people are going to be playing them. Even if there is a case to be made that those percentages in the poll are a bit skewed thanks to mobile games and such, I don't think it makes as much of an impact as some might believe. *raises hand* Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I have lots of female friends (older, younger, and same age as me) who play video games. A lot of us girls grew up playing video games along with their siblings and for some of us, the hobby just never went away. I do know plenty of women who couldn't care less about them (my beloved younger sister, is one) but I think there are a lot more women playing video games than people realize. And not just the casual "Candy Crush" variety, either. Just a side note: My parents who are in their late 50's love playing games. Granted, they do NOT play AAA titles and pretty much just play casual games on their tablets but, to me, that's phenomenal because they rarely engaged in video games with us when we were growing up. The fact that they get excited any time I point out a new cool game in the Android market makes me squee on the inside.
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Post by Mihura on Feb 2, 2017 18:11:17 GMT
A fun little anecdote from my own life, recently. Since I imagine the 'problem' here is the notion that A. most 'real' gamers are young (if you're over the age of 30 raise your hand! *raises hand*) B. a big chunk of that 41% of female gamers number comes from playing Candy Crush and such *looks around the forum and sees tons of women*. A couple weeks ago I was at work. I was chatting with a couple guys at the break table and somehow the topic of gaming came up. Suddenly the girls at the next table over who'd been chatting about who posted what on Instagram chimed in. One asked if any of us had played the new Resident Evil because it was, in her words, 'awesome,' another mentioned that Red Dead Redemption was her favorite game of all time and she was currently playing Uncharted. When I asked if they'd heard about the new Mass Effect coming out, one was super excited and the other admitted she'd never played the old ones, and asked what it was about. Now, I like to think of myself as a person who doesn't buy into stereotypes, but these were not the type of girls (and I'm using that term loosely - both were in their mid-to-late twenties) I'd have expected to be playing games like these. Hell, I've seen them playing crap like Candy Crush on their phones at work. Had someone told me they were 'gamers' (as in the types who play AAA games) before then I wouldn't have believed it. Last year I remember telling an older female manager (I'd put her in the late 30s) after a rough day that I was gonna go home, drink beer, and play video games. She was like, 'oh, what kind of games do you play!?' Now, she was mostly into Mario Cart and The SIMS and stuff like that, but she'd also played every Zelda game ever made. So while her taste was about as opposite of mine as you could get, once again here you have this older woman you wouldn't guess was a gamer, playing AAA titles. My point is, this perception that the majority of 'real' gamers are young and male is becoming more and more outdated. And as we see more games coming out with cool storylines and great voice acting and diverse casts of characters, more people are going to be playing them. Even if there is a case to be made that those percentages in the poll are a bit skewed thanks to mobile games and such, I don't think it makes as much of an impact as some might believe. Also 30 years old and yes it makes no sense to try to put a stereotype on gamers, they come from all places because gaming is a hobby that is both accessible and fun. Also has almost any genre really, so it satisfies any taste.
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 2, 2017 18:43:18 GMT
This distinction between 'hardcore vs casual' gamers and 'AAA vs mobile' games seems silly. It's an arbitrary distinction. Unless someone has demographic data on the ME player base, then the only numbers that CAN be used are the general 'game player' data. You can't argue that a data set doesn't apply unless you can back that up. 'I'd bet that' doesn't count as evidence. I think that demographic data in general should be taken with a grain of salt if it's not specific to the game being talked about, honestly. Even as somebody who has pointed out in the past that the general "game player" data is typically kind of useless specifically because it includes just everything and throws it into one big pot. Even if we were to look at the "AAA Hardcore" gamers then you'll find different demographics within different games and genres. Mass Effect wouldn't get the same group of people that a game like XCOM gets, even though there would be some overlap. Anybody interested in story heavy games with RP options probably isn't as interested in playing the latest DOOM where the story only exists just enough to give you a valid reason to run from set piece to set piece killing everything that looks vaguely like a demon. Based on my super scientific research(by which I mean entirely anecdotal based on what I've seen over the years =P) I personally find that MMOs have more women playing than FPS does. I'm also pretty sure Counter-Strike is actually the best way to learn Russian. Though the fact that these forums have a good percentage of female posters should suggest that BioWare's fanbase has a good number of them.
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Post by theratpack55 on Feb 2, 2017 19:22:19 GMT
Edit: I somehow messed up the quoting... I was referring to this part, of course: "Anybody interested in story heavy games with RP options probably isn't as interested in playing the latest DOOM where the story only exists just enough to give you a valid reason to run from set piece to set piece killing everything that looks vaguely like a demon."Heeey, I resent that! I'm interested in both! DOOM may not have much of a plot but oh, the glorious gore! (Btw hi guys! I haven't spoken a word since the fall of the BSN, but I've been lurking around and reading here and there...) Anyway, I guess I'm an outlier that should not be counted... a woman over thirty, I've been playing games since I was a wee babe - from stuff like Super Mario and Contra on the NES, through Tomb Raider and Quake on my first PC, and once I got my own income I switched mostly to console gaming. I bought the PS2 for the MGS games and then just kept going, moving on to the PS3 and PS4 and the occasional PC game that my weak laptop could handle. I don't know if I can consider myself a "hardcore gamer", whatever that means... I don't play every AAA title that comes out, but my tastes are nevertheless quite eclectic - I love some RPGs, some shooters, some hack and slash... I've put hours upon hours into Fallout, Borderlands, Dark Souls, Far Cry, Transformers games... lots of very different games, really. I've never touched a mobile game or an MMO, however, can't stand the tiny screen or the company of other people. On the other hand, I admit I'm only tentatively interested in MEA atm. I like reading the news but I intend to spoil myself to hell and back about every aspect of the game, from gameplay, through choices to romance options, before I decide if I want to buy it now or wait for a sale. DAI was... not to my tastes and I don't want to get burned again. Right now I'm passing time playing Baldur's Gate, and the game I'm actually somewhat hyped about is Torment Tides of Numenera, I think that one has promise.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 2, 2017 23:51:46 GMT
I don't really get the distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" gamer. I gravitate to a specific type of game experience, where I consider story paramount. I play all Bioware games, all the Uncharted series and The Last of Us, loved TW3, played some FO3/4 and Deus Ex (though none of those really made an impact.) Wing Commander was really what got me into gaming. So I don't play a lot of different types of games, but almost all of my free time is allocated to playing the games I do love over and over. A lot of people, at least on the outside would consider that hardcore. So where does a person such as myself fit into the spectrum of casual to hardcore?
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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 3, 2017 2:28:48 GMT
I don't really get the distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" gamer. I gravitate to a specific type of game experience, where I consider story paramount. I play all Bioware games, all the Uncharted series and The Last of Us, loved TW3, played some FO3/4 and Deus Ex (though none of those really made an impact.) Wing Commander was really what got me into gaming. So I don't play a lot of different types of games, but almost all of my free time is allocated to playing the games I do love over and over. A lot of people, at least on the outside would consider that hardcore. So where does a person such as myself fit into the spectrum of casual to hardcore? We play most of the same games (except Fallout), I would consider myself somewhere between casual and hardcore tbh.
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Post by Shinobu on Feb 3, 2017 4:52:56 GMT
that's a nice anecdote i guess. and there's nothing wrong with counting puzzle games and phone games as games, but misrepresenting statistics and pretending they apply to AAA games in order to create a narrative is goofy. i'll bet 1000 large bucks that the people buying call of duty aren't mostly middle aged men and 40% women. none of you would take that bet. not sure if you're the same mod who replied to one of my other posts with a wall of text, but if you are, you do a lot of pulling things out of thin air and putting words in people's mouths. should i start doing that? will it make my teeth white or something? www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/17/women-video-games-iab"Based on interviews with 4,000 UK residents, the research asserts that women now account for 52% of the gaming audience, up from 49% three years ago. The study, which was commissioned by the Internet Advertising Bureau, also revealed there are now more people over 44 years old playing games (27% of the audience) than children or teenagers (22%). The gamer audience reportedly stands at 33.5 million Britons – 69% of the population." "However the stereotype that female gamers are interested almost exclusively in casual smartphone titles is tested by the data. 47% of female gamers polled had played a disc-based game in the last six months, and 68% had played an online game. 56% of female gamers have played on a console." I'm a woman over 40, I've played over 10,000 matches in ME3MP, just completed my first Platinum solo , and I also play Candy Crush. And Fallout and Guild Wars and Diablo and Age of Empires and Clash of Clans and Panda Pop and Mario and Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights and Borderlands and Portal 2 and and and. . . I don't play a ton of games because of lack of time, so I may not qualify as "hardcore," but I'm definitely a gamer. And there's no reason Bioware shouldn't want my money the same as anyone else's. On the other topic, part of the reason for the fallout in the MET was that if a straight femshep saved Ashley and didn't romance Garrus in ME2, she could be left with NO romance at all in ME3 (not counting Jacob, Thane and Javik for obvious reasons). That was a bit of an oversight. But I do agree that for those with access to it Garrus' was the best romance.
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Post by steamz on Feb 3, 2017 7:11:46 GMT
lmao holy shit....i don't fucking care
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Post by steamz on Feb 3, 2017 7:12:05 GMT
like at all guys
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Post by helios969 on Feb 3, 2017 10:19:55 GMT
that's a nice anecdote i guess. and there's nothing wrong with counting puzzle games and phone games as games, but misrepresenting statistics and pretending they apply to AAA games in order to create a narrative is goofy. i'll bet 1000 large bucks that the people buying call of duty aren't mostly middle aged men and 40% women. none of you would take that bet. not sure if you're the same mod who replied to one of my other posts with a wall of text, but if you are, you do a lot of pulling things out of thin air and putting words in people's mouths. should i start doing that? will it make my teeth white or something? www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/17/women-video-games-iab"Based on interviews with 4,000 UK residents, the research asserts that women now account for 52% of the gaming audience, up from 49% three years ago. The study, which was commissioned by the Internet Advertising Bureau, also revealed there are now more people over 44 years old playing games (27% of the audience) than children or teenagers (22%). The gamer audience reportedly stands at 33.5 million Britons – 69% of the population." "However the stereotype that female gamers are interested almost exclusively in casual smartphone titles is tested by the data. 47% of female gamers polled had played a disc-based game in the last six months, and 68% had played an online game. 56% of female gamers have played on a console." I'm a woman over 40, I've played over 10,000 matches in ME3MP, just completed my first Platinum solo , and I also play Candy Crush. And Fallout and Guild Wars and Diablo and Age of Empires and Clash of Clans and Panda Pop and Mario and Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights and Borderlands and Portal 2 and and and. . . I don't play a ton of games because of lack of time, so I may not qualify as "hardcore," but I'm definitely a gamer. And there's no reason Bioware shouldn't want my money the same as anyone else's. On the other topic, part of the reason for the fallout in the MET was that if a straight femshep saved Ashley and didn't romance Garrus in ME2, she could be left with NO romance at all in ME3 (not counting Jacob, Thane and Javik for obvious reasons). That was a bit of an oversight. But I do agree that for those with access to it Garrus' was the best romance. Holy hell, now that's hardcore. I didn't play too much ME3MP (kind of regret not jumping in at the peak,) but my very first match as a scrub was platinum with a level 1 engineer. Um, yeah, that didn't go well. Surprising the group carried me through that first match before kicking me but the points I "earned" jumped me all the way to something like level 15. Even after getting comfortable with MP and attaining the max level, platinum was pretty much impossible for me...lack of decent gear probably didn't help.
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Post by Vall on Feb 3, 2017 11:24:20 GMT
lmao holy shit....i don't fucking care You got proven wrong so suddenly you don't care?
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Post by Shinobu on Feb 4, 2017 0:16:39 GMT
Holy hell, now that's hardcore. I didn't play too much ME3MP (kind of regret not jumping in at the peak,) but my very first match as a scrub was platinum with a level 1 engineer. Um, yeah, that didn't go well. Surprising the group carried me through that first match before kicking me but the points I "earned" jumped me all the way to something like level 15. Even after getting comfortable with MP and attaining the max level, platinum was pretty much impossible for me...lack of decent gear probably didn't help. There are plenty of players left if you want to practice running and gunning before Andromeda. If you're on PC, send me a FR, or if you're on another platform go to the ME3MP forum and post in the "looking for group" thread. I'm actually a Gold player, but just tried the Plat solo because it was the only N7HQ challenge I hadn't completed yet. MP is still alive and it's really fun. Come join us!
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 4, 2017 4:20:35 GMT
I do have some concern over romancing, (more questions than concern) But my one main concern is that Bioware is taking too much of a frat boy, dude bro approach to romancing. I resent these accusations.
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Post by warlorejohn on Feb 4, 2017 7:43:17 GMT
54 year old gamer don't play as much because of my stupid cancer consider myself a gamer still, my doc with 2 kids plays games also but maybe only once a week still consider him a gamer. Gamers r people who love video games doesn't matter on what system or what kind of game they play.
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 4, 2017 14:18:03 GMT
I do have some concern over romancing, (more questions than concern) But my one main concern is that Bioware is taking too much of a frat boy, dude bro approach to romancing. I resent these accusations. Says the ultimate dude bro frat boy. You ain't fooling anyone Jim.
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 4, 2017 17:03:58 GMT
Says the ultimate dude bro frat boy. You ain't fooling anyone Jim. It's called the 'Cpt. Kirk approach' to romances. And if you get your stupid, sappy "emotionally deep" romances, then I want to sex some sweet alien babes. I, for one, welcome Bioware's approach to romances. Particularly because the main female LIs look like garbage.
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leliana93
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Post by leliana93 on Feb 7, 2017 3:34:00 GMT
I'm not too worried about the over-advertizement, most likely the devs know that one of the game's selling points is the romance (and part of it as a joke), but I do believe that they should keep things just as dynamic as before (it would be silly for them not to keep it that way). It's a lot like when they've over-emphasized choice in the past, you have choice but not to the level that you think they're promoting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:25:23 GMT
Ah, you are all very special people. I've never liked the whole us vs them attitudes. You play the same game I do? Well, you are much more like me than a person who don't. I'll happily chat with you about the game, 'cause who else am I going to talk to about it? and if we disagree on something, it's all good, so long as you are not malicious (I put malicious and depressing folks on ignore). I don't care what demographic bracket you represent, what's your average DPS, and how many hrs per day you play on average. it's all interesting to me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 17:45:55 GMT
Then there is a single FemShep waking up next to Javik after a "wild" party. It's heavily implied that they had sex, since Javik says, "At least there is one thing primitive are good at." He could be trolling Shep, but the way she says, "Not another word," indicates they did just that. Without the player having imput as to whether or not they do this. It wasn't very funny and in fact, some players find that insulting. It's one thing to choose to (probably) have sex with Javik, it's another when the decision is made for you. Yeah, that was... a pretty blatant overwrite of the player's control of Shepard. Since you mentioned that situation, I'd also like to say that I don't appreciate it when the PC flirts without my input. That happened with Jacob in ME2, and it happened with Vega in ME3. Then there are other discrepancies, like the fact that Jack reveals things only to a MaleShep who romances her... One of the things that's so awesome about Garrus is that FemShep can develop a very close, yet completely platonic, relationship with him. He's everybody's bestest bro. I think (hope?) that BioWare has recognized some of this, and is putting forth some real effort toward developing (alternative) friendship paths for unromanced LIs. I can only hope these efforts include the ability to choose to flirt - or not.
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