TheGodlyFist
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Feb 27, 2017 18:29:30 GMT
Well, since you said you wanted fantasy/scifi... The "hottest" game on the planet! Hah... well, it's actually not such a bad game - mechanically. They arstyle though... yea, not my cup of tea, even though it totally fits the game. Personally, I'm more of a Bijin fan. Bioware should take some hints from Bethesda and support mods, it makes the game last longer and fixes a lot of problems some people have with the game. I still love modded Serana #AllTheBang. Yeah it doesn't make sense for them to look that pretty, but since their mods it's all optional so if you don't like it don't get it.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 27, 2017 18:30:53 GMT
Yeah, let's not get into original recipe PeeBee. Just to be clearer, I'm saying that the photoshopped PeeBee version is conceptually bad.The artist is competent, but has no design vision. Well now we're getting into a conceptual argument here, which is a difficult to make points for. Attractiveness is completely subjective, but aesthetics are easier to argue about. Aestheticly the photoshopped picture better since it takes proportions and flow into account, while the original is more natural since actual faces don't follow aesthetic principles. Both look fine, just one is more pleasing to the eye and another is more pleasing to mind. Right. The substance of the debate is how to order these principles. It's pretty clear where Bio's coming down on this. I haven't seen interviews with ME:A character designers, but the DAI people (don't know if there's overlap) have made it clear that their priority order is characterization>aesthetics; I think realism's in the middle. The implication is that a "bad animations" argument can work, but an aesthetics argument won't.
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TheGodlyFist
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 85 Likes: 104
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Feb 27, 2017 18:31:53 GMT
You know this whole argument could be stoped if Bioware simply gave us the choice to have either a realistic character or a fantastical one. So the ones for it can get their girl next door look, and everyone else can get their sexy bombshell. I'll be getting the mods for the double D's.
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The Twilight God
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by The Twilight God on Feb 27, 2017 18:46:54 GMT
You know who's enjoying all this negative attention thrown at poor Sara? PeeBee.
Remember the original ugly squadmate? Member? I member.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 27, 2017 18:54:31 GMT
You know who's enjoying all this negative attention thrown at poor Sara? PeeBee. Remember the original ugly squadmate? Member? I member. So does BioWare. They redesigned her face, though they kept the eyebrows. I suspect those are important to PeeBee's story.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 27, 2017 18:55:34 GMT
You know who's enjoying all this negative attention thrown at poor Sara? PeeBee. Remember the original ugly squadmate? Member? I member. Oh, I do "member"... and I still haven't forgotten the reveal trailer. *shivers* Peebee is an especially good example for "too many facial features"...
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 27, 2017 19:02:00 GMT
Bioware should take some hints from Bethesda and support mods, it makes the game last longer and fixes a lot of problems some people have with the game. I still love modded Serana #AllTheBang. Yeah it doesn't make sense for them to look that pretty, but since their mods it's all optional so if you don't like it don't get it. A lot of the reasons why BioWare couldn't make modding tools has to do with the engine and it being on DICE to actually support modding tools, as well as probably on EA for approving it in the first place.
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ibnshisha
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: IbnShisha
PSN: ibn_shisha1
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Post by ibnshisha on Feb 27, 2017 21:14:32 GMT
Meh. I wouldn't expect to be at my mailbox and see Sara reporting in across the street for a photo shoot (come to think of it, I'm not even sure they do any of the VS photoshoots at HQ), but neither does looking at her burn my eyes. She's got kind of a cute girl-next-door thing going.
I'm pretty OCD on customization though, and have never played 'default' in any game with customization available, so they could have made default Sara look like Zach Galifanakis and I wouldn't really care.
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Post by steamshipman on Feb 28, 2017 7:04:11 GMT
what possibilities remain? Is Bioware simply that inept? Is the new technology simply unable to do female "graphics" with fidelity while somehow it is able to do so for males? Did Bioware and its "hidden agenda" decide to make a disparity? Is Bioware simply that inept?No, I don't believe that. They seem to be struggling with new technology but there is undeniable trend with their character design, starting from DAI and continuing here. You can love that fact, you can hate it, but they intentionally go for diversity and in my opinion they go out of proportions with it. Yes, you can go out on street and see that not all women look like super-models. Far from it indeed. But I don't think you can say this about any of Bioware game either, even before DAI. People with distinct unconventional looks do happen here and there. Not everywhere. Why without plot reason en masse create characters who probably will be perceived as unattractive or worse by common standards? That seems unintuitive for AAA title. So I do think that there is "agenda" in what they are doing. I just don't think that this is about shoehorning as it is and more about their belief that this is a important thing to do. It becomes interesting how far they will go with it. Who knows, may be we will get something like this in the future? I would love to see how someone will say "What's wrong, you sexist pig? Reevaluate your standards, there is nothing wrong with her, she is perfect!".
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Post by Gay Tony on Feb 28, 2017 13:23:30 GMT
I don't really understand the problem with having an attractive protagonist or why people would feel insecure about it. Default male protagonists played for the most part by men are usually conventionally attractive also.
The only people I see get salty about about video games characters being attractive are insecure themselves, regardless of their gender. So why should they be pandered to?
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Post by lundajfs on Feb 28, 2017 13:42:06 GMT
...then people need to start telling me just what the hell is... Leliana in DAO, DA2 and DAI Isabela in DA2 Morrigan in DAO and DAI Yennefer in Witcher 3, well as far as I remeber Witcher 3 all girls are beautiful, even Cerys the "viking lady" is prettier than Sarah And so on... I would date even a Krogan, I don't date people on their appearances, never did, it is not even a factor for sexual excitement for me, but when I play videogames, an audio visual experience, you can be damn sure I am 101% about aesthetics and they better do everything pretty, even the rocks, so yeah, Sarah is ugly as hell
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Post by vonuber on Feb 28, 2017 14:25:08 GMT
I don't really understand the problem with having an attractive protagonist or why people would feel insecure about it. Default male protagonists played for the most part by men are usually conventionally attractive also. The only people I see get salty about about video games characters being attractive are insecure themselves, regardless of their gender. So why should they be pandered to? Your argument works exactly the same for an 'unattractive' protagonist.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 28, 2017 14:30:06 GMT
I don't really understand the problem with having an attractive protagonist or why people would feel insecure about it. Default male protagonists played for the most part by men are usually conventionally attractive also. The only people I see get salty about about video games characters being attractive are insecure themselves, regardless of their gender. So why should they be pandered to? Wow, ok... short version? The US banks and universities are highly dependent on student loans.
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Post by Gay Tony on Feb 28, 2017 15:16:05 GMT
Open a Women's magazine or watch a TV show about models, beauty standards, and fashion. It's not all some whacked conspiracy of this mythical patriarchy objectifying women. Women themselves set the norms too.
Men sure as hell don't want to play a slouch with a beer gut as their Commander unless it's for a joke. Who is even complaining about Nathan Drake or the default Manshep being too attractive & visually appealing that it hurts men's feelings or some shit?
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 28, 2017 15:25:28 GMT
Open a Women's magazine or watch a TV show about models, beauty standards, and fashion. It's not all some whacked conspiracy of this mythical patriarchy objectifying women. Women themselves set the norms too. Men sure as hell don't want to play a slouch with a beer gut as their Commander unless it's for a joke. Who is even complaining about Nathan Drake or the default Manshep being too attractive & visually appealing that it hurts men's feelings or some shit? Yup, and every normal human being knows that... problem is: Gaming - like any multi billion dollar industry - has attracted a whole bunch of crazies over the years, and people have not yet learned to ignore them, like any other industry does.
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Post by armass81 on Feb 28, 2017 15:28:10 GMT
I personally dont find Sara unattractive, its pretty subjective. I think she looks kind and cute, and i like girls like that.
Plus you can always change the face if you dont liek it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 28, 2017 15:38:38 GMT
Open a Women's magazine or watch a TV show about models, beauty standards, and fashion. It's not all some whacked conspiracy of this mythical patriarchy objectifying women. Women themselves set the norms too. Men sure as hell don't want to play a slouch with a beer gut as their Commander unless it's for a joke. Who is even complaining about Nathan Drake or the default Manshep being too attractive & visually appealing that it hurts men's feelings or some shit? Can't lie. I can never quite remember what Nathan Drake looks like. I just keep imagining poor man's Malcolm Reynolds.
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Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Elsariel on Feb 28, 2017 17:30:41 GMT
I don't really understand the problem with having an attractive protagonist or why people would feel insecure about it. Default male protagonists played for the most part by men are usually conventionally attractive also. The only people I see get salty about about video games characters being attractive are insecure themselves, regardless of their gender. So why should they be pandered to? Your argument works exactly the same for an 'unattractive' protagonist. I don't think so... people in general prefer beauty. Most of us enjoy seeing visually beautiful things. Beautiful landscapes, beautiful animals, beautiful flora and fauna, and yes, even beautiful people. Not only that, but we also like beautiful words, beautiful poetry, beautiful art.... I mean, it's pretty easy to see that beauty is very much integral to the human psyche. People find beauty in a variety of things, and not everyone agrees on what's beautiful, but there is a general understanding that certain things are visually appealing and others are not so much. A landscape of a field of flowers and a mountain range is going to be more beautiful to the average human than, say, a landscape of a garbage dump. So, while it's understandable that people may argue on what they find beautiful, it's not entirely realistic that people should equally be okay with an unattractive protagonist vs. an attractive one. Unless, their unattractiveness is part of the story being told.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 28, 2017 17:36:27 GMT
what possibilities remain? Is Bioware simply that inept? Is the new technology simply unable to do female "graphics" with fidelity while somehow it is able to do so for males? Did Bioware and its "hidden agenda" decide to make a disparity? Is Bioware simply that inept?No, I don't believe that. They seem to be struggling with new technology but there is undeniable trend with their character design, starting from DAI and continuing here. You can love that fact, you can hate it, but they intentionally go for diversity and in my opinion they go out of proportions with it. Yes, you can go out on street and see that not all women look like super-models. Far from it indeed. But I don't think you can say this about any of Bioware game either, even before DAI. People with distinct unconventional looks do happen here and there. Not everywhere. Why without plot reason en masse create characters who probably will be perceived as unattractive or worse by common standards? That seems unintuitive for AAA title. So I do think that there is "agenda" in what they are doing. I just don't think that this is about shoehorning as it is and more about their belief that this is a important thing to do. It becomes interesting how far they will go with it. Who knows, may be we will get something like this in the future? I would love to see how someone will say "What's wrong, you sexist pig? Reevaluate your standards, there is nothing wrong with her, she is perfect!". Again, I think we shouldn't exclude a third possibility here. Namely, that Bio is simply not very interested in working much on attractiveness, rather than being opposed to it or unable to achieve it. Even the companions who are based on real people are made things, and you can expend the man-hours doing that making in different ways. Like I said upthread, the DAI artists came across as being not very interested in high levels of attractiveness. They were looking for OK, and got to OK. This means that Gay Tony's asking the wrong question. Rather than Bio pandering to people who want low attractiveness, it's just that Bio isn't pandering to people who want high attractiveness, and the question is whether they should pander. Elsariel, I believe, is saying yes to that, depending on where we draw the attractiveness/unattractiveness line. (We really shouldn't use a binary here.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 17:39:56 GMT
Just for the hell of it, I'd like a game to feature people who are outrageously beautiful in most aspects of their appearance, and totally unattractive with respect to some other aspect. Like a woman who is an ethereal beauty in all aspects except her nose which is as enormous as mine ... or has rotten teeth, things like that. Just to troll '______ is ugly' threads in forums.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 28, 2017 18:36:49 GMT
Again, I think we shouldn't exclude a third possibility here. Namely, that Bio is simply not very interested in working much on attractiveness, rather than being opposed to it or unable to achieve it. Even the companions who are based on real people are made things, and you can expend the man-hours doing that making in different ways. Like I said upthread, the DAI artists came across as being not very interested in high levels of attractiveness. They were looking for OK, and got to OK. This means that Gay Tony's asking the wrong question. Rather than Bio pandering to people who want low attractiveness, it's just that Bio isn't pandering to people who want high attractiveness, and the question is whether they should pander. Elsariel, I believe, is saying yes to that, depending on where we draw the attractiveness/unattractiveness line. (We really shouldn't use a binary here.) The only thing about this is that they went and used models for the face scan. If you aren't after attractiveness, then why go out of your way to hire people who literally have a job description of being attractive? On top of that they got Scott's face scan spot on compared to Steven Brewis, the model they used for him. Meanwhile Sara looks almost nothing like Jayde Rossi. That suggests that either they intentionally modified Sara after doing the facial scan, or that something went wrong in the facial scan they couldn't correct. In either case the two outcomes are that either A. they're opposed to it or B. They're unable to achieve it.
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Post by Gay Tony on Feb 28, 2017 19:40:12 GMT
Sara comes off as a bit of a dork in her early teens still crushing over boy bands and doesn't look anything at all like her model. If I were Jayde I'd be insulted at my portrayal. If you told me it was the same person without prior knowledge I'd be skeptical and have to look more into it.
Scott looks pretty accurate as did Manshep, Kaidan, Ashley, Samara, Miranda, and so on at least to some extent.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 28, 2017 19:45:09 GMT
@ Cyonan: Case A strikes me as incoherent; if you are positively opposed to attractiveness, why start with attractive? It can still work if the staff really has incoherent goals, though.
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Life is Strange
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Strange93
Prime Posts: 244
Prime Likes: 682
Posts: 84 Likes: 271
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Post by Life is Strange on Feb 28, 2017 19:53:06 GMT
Sara comes off as a bit of a dork in her early teens still crushing over boy bands and doesn't look anything at all like her model. If I were Jayde I'd be insulted at my portrayal. If you told me it was the same person without prior knowledge I'd be skeptical and have to look more into it. Scott looks pretty accurate as did Manshep, Kaidan, Ashley, Samara, Miranda, and so on at least to some extent. Yeah, Scott looks pretty accurate, for a ,, Creepy Barbie Doll,,
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 1, 2017 0:27:57 GMT
I don't have a problem with her being ugly or beautiful or something in between I just hope it looks "fluid" and not clunky where it makes you cringe
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