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Post by derrame on Feb 22, 2017 2:32:17 GMT
it makes no sense at all to change face or appearance after exiting character creator, if you don't lik what you created, just create a new one you are there to explore an unknown galaxty, not to get aesthetic surgery over and over again
if you play as male, it could be a good detail that the beard grows, but it's ok anyway
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 2:33:49 GMT
Is anything in a game absolutely necessary? Not really. The same stories could be told in other ways. Games, RPGs especially, are made to immerse you into the experience. Story and characters need to be great, but they need to be great across all mediums to generally be considered a success. What makes video games truly special are the little details to immerse you further into the experience. Those little details typically correlate directly with the love and care the devs have for their product and their fans. It's what made Witcher 3 so special and it's what made Mass Effect 1 so special. Most likely the same is about to be/has been said about Horizon: Zero Dawn. Although ME3 was a great game, it lacked that extra bit of care and love that you usually only get from smaller studios. It was basically a Michael bay movie Of course there are a lot of main stream gamers who don't appreciate the little details anymore because we have so many other options to keep us entertained. It's usually the same people who like ME2 and 3 better that more streamlined experience. I'd say gameplay is necessary in a game? I understand your point, but games have a limited budget and a very stringent schedule. BioWare cannot do anything and everything. They have priorities. They have a list of things going in and things being cut. It's the dirty, ugly business of how games are made and this feature you want is just never a huge priority. Geralt would have to trim his beard on occasion and there were a few hairstyle options at barber shops, but I'd hardly call that substantial or game-changing. Mass Effect 1 didn't have any sort of character creator available in the game after creating your Shepard, so I'm not really sure what you are getting at. Horizon: Zero Dawn is not even an RPG and has a fixed protagonist you can't customize at all to my knowledge. Perhaps you just skipped the codex in ME3, but there was plenty of love and labor put into that game. Considering BioWare had less than two years to develop and ship the game, it's honestly amazing what they were able to do in such a short amount of time, and I'm not even including the introduction of a multiplayer feature. I guess my issue with your post is "the little details" is so subjective, broad, and ambiguous that it's too unwieldy to try and justify in a discussion. There might not be "little details" you like in these games, but I'm certain there are little details others like that you merely gloss over. Mass Effect 1 was a great game, but the gameplay was absolutely horrific. I've never heard of a third person shooter where you can't even aim. Not to mention, there was no body part hit detection and the entire experience was just holding down a trigger and pointing at sponge enemies. I enjoyed some aspects of the RPG progression (although a war hero having to learn how to aim with a sniper was hilarious), but a lot of the gameplay in ME1 was unpolished and quite frankly a mess. Mass Effect 2 took that gameplay and made it fun. Was a lot removed? Absolutely. Did BioWare have a lot of time to make the game? Not at all. They did the best they could with the limited time they had and ME2 and ME3 are respectable games. MEA is an attempt at taking that refined gameplay of ME2/ME3 and regaining some of the depth ME1 had. Reasonable minds may differ, but I find this rather low priority compared to the other systems and features that absolutely should be in the game. Everything you stated is great and fairly accurate. I don't mean to disparage ME2 and 3 as much as you may think. The combat did indeed get better as well as many of the missions themselves. And the codex was amazing. I'm not saying the devs didn't care about those games. In my mind, I feel like because of EA, they were shaved down experiences in terms of the amount of freedom they provided the player. I have no doubt a ton of love and care is going into ME:A and I realize there is a budget/time restraint. Something as small as this mechanic that is already in the game shouldn't be a difficult task compared to everything else they've accomplished. Implementing it not too long after release is just something that would be completely fan service. It's not going to bother me in the least bit if its not there, but I know many people in the community would like. Hence the reason I am asking for it.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 2:39:04 GMT
it makes no sense at all to change face or appearance after exiting character creator, if you don't lik what you created, just create a new one you are there to explore an unknown galaxty, not to get aesthetic surgery over and over again if you play as male, it could be a good detail that the beard grows, but it's ok anyway We aren't asking for plastic surgery or altering the shape of the face. We are asking to be able to change the hair, beard, and make up throughout your playthrough. If someone is 40 hours in and wants to change the hair of their character, simply starting back over isn't the greatest solution....You can play this game beyond the story as well. Again, it's necessary or game breaking. It would just be nice to have for people who want it.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Feb 22, 2017 2:39:10 GMT
To be fair, while I would like to change Scott's beard over the course of the game, this is a no biggie considering we never had the option to change anything in the Mass Effect trilogy.
I don't know what you were expecting. No surprise here.
It's better Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect, Dragon Age can't even find it's own identity, the less they take it from it, the better.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 2:42:52 GMT
To be fair, while I would like to change Scott's beard over the course of the game, this is a no biggie considering we never had the option to change anything in the Mass Effect trilogy. I don't know what you were expecting. No surprise here. It's better Mass Effect to remain Mass Effect, Dragon Age can't even find it's own identity, the less they take it from it, the better. Some people are expecting it to be different from the last gen Mass Effect games that had more limitations. Although not absolutely needed, it's still a small upgrade in mechanics
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 2:49:11 GMT
I'd say gameplay is necessary in a game? I understand your point, but games have a limited budget and a very stringent schedule. BioWare cannot do anything and everything. They have priorities. They have a list of things going in and things being cut. It's the dirty, ugly business of how games are made and this feature you want is just never a huge priority. Geralt would have to trim his beard on occasion and there were a few hairstyle options at barber shops, but I'd hardly call that substantial or game-changing. Mass Effect 1 didn't have any sort of character creator available in the game after creating your Shepard, so I'm not really sure what you are getting at. Horizon: Zero Dawn is not even an RPG and has a fixed protagonist you can't customize at all to my knowledge. Perhaps you just skipped the codex in ME3, but there was plenty of love and labor put into that game. Considering BioWare had less than two years to develop and ship the game, it's honestly amazing what they were able to do in such a short amount of time, and I'm not even including the introduction of a multiplayer feature. I guess my issue with your post is "the little details" is so subjective, broad, and ambiguous that it's too unwieldy to try and justify in a discussion. There might not be "little details" you like in these games, but I'm certain there are little details others like that you merely gloss over. Mass Effect 1 was a great game, but the gameplay was absolutely horrific. I've never heard of a third person shooter where you can't even aim. Not to mention, there was no body part hit detection and the entire experience was just holding down a trigger and pointing at sponge enemies. I enjoyed some aspects of the RPG progression (although a war hero having to learn how to aim with a sniper was hilarious), but a lot of the gameplay in ME1 was unpolished and quite frankly a mess. Mass Effect 2 took that gameplay and made it fun. Was a lot removed? Absolutely. Did BioWare have a lot of time to make the game? Not at all. They did the best they could with the limited time they had and ME2 and ME3 are respectable games. MEA is an attempt at taking that refined gameplay of ME2/ME3 and regaining some of the depth ME1 had. Reasonable minds may differ, but I find this rather low priority compared to the other systems and features that absolutely should be in the game. Everything you stated is great and fairly accurate. I don't mean to disparage ME2 and 3 as much as you may think. The combat did indeed get better as well as many of the missions themselves. And the codex was amazing. I'm not saying the devs didn't care about those games. In my mind, I feel like because of EA, they were shaved down experiences in terms of the amount of freedom they provided the player. I have no doubt a ton of love and care is going into ME:A and I realize there is a budget/time restraint. Something as small as this mechanic that is already in the game shouldn't be a difficult task compared to everything else they've accomplished. Implementing it not too long after release is just something that would be completely fan service. It's not going to bother me in the least bit if its not there, but I know many people in the community would like. Hence the reason I am asking for it. If anyone is to blame for the "shaved down experience," it's honestly the fan base. Most of what was removed in ME1 was largely criticized by fans. From the cookie cutter and generic planets to explore, to the horrific controls of the Mako, the game was refined and focused to prioritize the main story and characters over everything else. The only thing I can accuse EA of doing wrong is the incredibly short development cycles they provided ME2 and ME3. I think the bigger issue is exactly "how" you would implement the feature you are asking for. BioWare could do a really poor job and just tack it on somewhere, but that's generally not their policy. Everything requires effort and finesse, no matter how small and insignificant it may appear. There's always a chance BioWare could do another Black Emporium of sorts. Especially with how much longer their games are becoming, there's a least a justifiable reason for why players might want to change their looks hundreds of hours into the experience.
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Post by blastoandbubin on Feb 22, 2017 2:53:29 GMT
I voted yes. I'm not surprised, but it's still annoying. It doesn't matter how long you work on your character in the CC, it's always possible (and likely) that you'll get out of it and realize something looks wonky. The lighting and angles are always working against you, and it's not just Bioware, Bethesda games have the same issue.
It just seems incredibly silly to decide we can't even change our hair in our cabin's mirror or something. If this is an immersion issue, that kind of breaks it for me - I have long hair and surprise, I switch up my style pretty frequently. I don't run around in a bun 24/7. And I can't imagine it's a technical issue since they had the Black Emporium in DAI and it's the same engine.
Eh, oh well. I assume they'll end up doing exactly what they did in DAI, which is putting in a way to edit your face after the game launches and they have to be told, yet again and repeatedly, that people want one.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 3:02:06 GMT
If anyone is to blame for the "shaved down experience," it's honestly the fan base. Most of what was removed in ME1 was largely criticized by fans. From the cookie cutter and generic planets to explore, to the horrific controls of the Mako, the game was refined and focused to prioritize the main story and characters over everything else. The only thing I can accuse EA of doing wrong is the incredibly short development cycles they provided ME2 and ME3. I think the bigger issue is exactly "how" you would implement the feature you are asking for. BioWare could do a really poor job and just tack it on somewhere, but that's generally not their policy. Everything requires effort and finesse, no matter how small and insignificant it may appear. There's always a chance BioWare could do another Black Emporium of sorts. Especially with how much longer their games are becoming, there's a least a justifiable reason for why players might want to change their looks hundreds of hours into the experience. There's many ways to do it to please some fans. You could have it simply in the options menu where it just pulls up the character creator menu but the only options you have are hairstyles, beard styles, colors, tatoos, and makeup. The actual face,color,maybe scars,etc are locked because they also determine what your father looks like. We used to pause the game to toggle the helmet and we still magically teleport into the Nomad so this should not seem like a lack of effort or out of place. If they want to add a small layer of immersion to it. You can simply walk to bathroom in your quarters on the tempest and activate the same Character Creator menu options as stated above (I don't know what it looks like. I'm just picturing how it was in previous games). They can further add more immersive details by having your image in the mirror as a layer over the original menu. Lastly, as I mentioned in my OP, you could go all out and create a small space salon/barbershop as an even more immersive layer over the limited character creator menu that's already in the game.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Feb 22, 2017 3:57:00 GMT
...What?! *Snip* Go Tweet the devs using #masseffect and #bioware. I hate that we have to resort to twitter over the forums now but that's the best way for positive constructive feedback. I might, but because of your second sentence (that I wholeheartedly agree with) I'm not really sure what I'd say. I said when they closed the forums that one of the downsides of Twitter is that because you don't have room to effectively argue your point in an understandable way (as my long post tried to do), you'll almost always come out sounding like you're whining because limited space means you really only have room for one sentence. It's only good for simple questions or praise. "I loved ____!" "Why would you remove this feature after there was so much outcry in DA:I that you had to add it in free DLC?" "Why wouldn't you keep a feature which was so popular the outcry for its return lead to a free DLC?" I mean, those are less than 140 characters, but they don't even come close to doing this topic justice. Maybe I should just send them a link to this thread...
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Post by SilJeff on Feb 22, 2017 4:40:36 GMT
I would like to see it added, but I don't think it's a big enough issue to lose sleep over.
I won't picket Bioware to add it, but I am not going to be against anyone else who care more for it to do so
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Post by amoebae on Feb 22, 2017 6:03:54 GMT
I really don't understand when people come in a thread like this and get all antsy saying "No! Such a feature would be an abomination! An abomination, I tell you!"
I mean, don't use it then?
A small quality of life addition to the game that helps players avoid the frustration of restarting the game over and over, seeing an unskippable cutscene over and over, tearing their own hair out and howling at the sky over and over... when those who don't care about the appearance of their character very much would never even have to see the feature if they didn't want, never mind use it.
It boggles the mind.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 22, 2017 6:15:08 GMT
I really don't understand when people come in a thread like this and get all antsy saying "No! Such a feature would be an abomination! An abomination, I tell you!" I mean, don't use it then? A small quality of life addition to the game that helps players avoid the frustration of restarting the game over and over, seeing an unskippable cutscene over and over, tearing their own hair out and howling at the sky over and over... when those who don't care about the appearance of their character very much would never even have to see the feature if they didn't want, never mind use it. It boggles the mind. You should go see my threads about having settlements and open world environments. Sooooo many people who want nothing but a linear story and missions because anything else would take up resources. Just don't do stuff outside the main bare bones campaign but don't ruin other people's fun and enjoyment.
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You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Draining Dragon on Feb 22, 2017 6:20:26 GMT
I really don't understand when people come in a thread like this and get all antsy saying "No! Such a feature would be an abomination! An abomination, I tell you!" I mean, don't use it then? A small quality of life addition to the game that helps players avoid the frustration of restarting the game over and over, seeing an unskippable cutscene over and over, tearing their own hair out and howling at the sky over and over... when those who don't care about the appearance of their character very much would never even have to see the feature if they didn't want, never mind use it. It boggles the mind. Aw, hell yeah. I made this meme four years ago for an argument about text chat in ME3 MP, and now it's relevant again.
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Post by Dazzle on Feb 22, 2017 9:03:44 GMT
Oh god, no, why? They better have a super short intro then, because I am known for rerolling dozens of times to get the perfect face.
The mirror in DA:I was a godsend; I spent hours running back and forth between that mirror and cutscenes to check if I'd finally fixed the face!
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Post by Dazzle on Feb 22, 2017 9:10:30 GMT
it makes no sense at all to change face or appearance after exiting character creator, if you don't lik what you created, just create a new one you are there to explore an unknown galaxty, not to get aesthetic surgery over and over again if you play as male, it could be a good detail that the beard grows, but it's ok anyway Because sometimes I'll spend hours in the CC just to determine that the face has a tiny flaw that I could easily tweak if I had the option, but will now bother me for the rest of the game. I don't onow about you, but hearing the same game into 5 times over because I had to keep reloading and recreating my Shepard was not dun.
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Post by isaidlunch on Feb 22, 2017 9:13:36 GMT
How irritating
I shudder to think how many times I restarted due to lip-shine before the Black Emporium was introduced
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Post by sosolaris on Feb 22, 2017 9:19:54 GMT
Oh god, no, why? They better have a super short intro then, because I am known for rerolling dozens of times to get the perfect face. The mirror in DA:I was a godsend; I spent hours running back and forth between that mirror and cutscenes to check if I'd finally fixed the face! Going back and forth to the Black Emporium after arriving in Haven has practically become part of the intro for me. I wish I could blame it all on DAI's unflattering lighting in the CC, but I do this with every game that allows you to change appearance after the intro (I've probably spent thousands of bottle caps at the surgeon in Fallout 4). I hope that the ME devs will add something like the surgeon or the BE to the game after launch.
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Post by clips7 on Feb 22, 2017 9:21:23 GMT
I never used the creation editor before and I was going to say that maybe it's just too taxing on the system itself to alter your character mid-game or after you create the character itself, but then I see that they had this option in other games which is a bit puzzling as to why it wasn't included here.
Not game-breaking tho....just make sure you like what you see before you proceed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:26:36 GMT
After the fiasco of the ME2 CC screen it is reasonable for us to be pissed. I've seen Shep's death in that long intro way too many bloody times, only to then land on the most badly lit CC ever. One save before that would've been all they had to do. ONE GODDAMN SAVE POINT. So if there's no changing at all at least don't so that again BioWare. Please please please please please. And give us some decent lighting, making Hawke's face in the dark is not fun Btw, ppl saying you should just be sure before you start playing...that's not the point. I am sure only for the face to look totally different in the cutscenes.
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Post by jjdxb on Feb 22, 2017 12:44:10 GMT
Because the defaults can't be modified. It would render the feature useless and frustrating for what I can only assume to be the majority of players (how many played default Shep in the OT?)
What if they added something like Fallout 4, where you got a second CC screen just as you left the prologue?
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Post by daniel on Feb 22, 2017 13:24:49 GMT
Lets be honest. Most of us are just going to sit in the character creator until we get our BroRyder/SisRyder absolutely perfect before actually playing the game. Would it be nice to have a way to change our hair/face at some point later in the game? Sure. Is it absolutely necessary? Not at all. Couldn't agree more.
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Post by our_lady_of_darkness on Feb 22, 2017 13:25:59 GMT
To say I'm disappointed about this decision is understatement.
It just eludes me why the feature which would make the experience of the game even more enjoyable for so many players has been shafted.
I can already picture myself restarting the game umpteenth times just to get the face right. Replay value at its most perverse.
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Post by I'm Not Dead Just Yet on Feb 22, 2017 13:29:20 GMT
The very least they could do is give us a chance to recreate our character's face after completing the intro mission like in some Bethesda games (Oblivion, Fallout NV and 4) or let us skip the intro cutscene completely.
I really don't understand why they think we don't want or need it.
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Feb 22, 2017 14:41:28 GMT
I spent 3 days making my character in Dragon Age: Inquisition, so I have to admit that it is disappointing that they haven't added a way for us to edit our character after we leave the CC. It's not like barbers and plastic surgeons don't exist in the future.
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Post by Princess Trejo on Feb 22, 2017 14:55:00 GMT
it makes no sense at all to change face or appearance after exiting character creator, if you don't lik what you created, just create a new one you are there to explore an unknown galaxty, not to get aesthetic surgery over and over again if you play as male, it could be a good detail that the beard grows, but it's ok anyway Seems like there are other opinions out there similiar to mine.
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