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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 28, 2017 21:28:24 GMT
I'm wondering if I'm the only one that thought of a polishing remark in Sean Connery's voice.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 28, 2017 21:31:33 GMT
A pillar of a squad-based game, the team AI, is outright broken. This will have a significant negative impact on how good the gameplay can get. You cannot refute that. Yet, most of the people here who actually give a shit about the gameplay dismiss this complaint as being unimportant. Why? low standards. There's a good way that I know of to deal with people that don't agree with logic (i.e. idiots), and that is to throw names. But this is a moderated forum, so I'm not doing that today. Really now? In most squad based games, if possible, I turn the AI off completely and issue every single command. But this ain't that kind of game, and Mass Effect never has been.
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The Loyal Nub
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The Maker Take You
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Feb 28, 2017 21:37:59 GMT
I think the guy playing in the IGN video specifically states that the version he is playing is an early one of the game and that would mean it is not the version of the game that just went gold. He also states that the Krogan fight at the video's end is easier than what BioWare claim the final version will be.
So...No one here has any idea about what the AI is actually like if, if, if, this was an early build. You are drawing a ton of conclusions based on a play-through a magazine guy did in a build that was a precursor to the final one. Try to relax. We'll know how it all shakes out on the 21st.
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Rico01
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Master of low standards
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 198 Likes: 170
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Master of low standards
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Post by Rico01 on Feb 28, 2017 21:42:11 GMT
I think the guy playing in the IGN video specifically states that the version he is playing is an early one of the game and that would mean it is not the version of the game that just went gold. He also states that the Krogan fight at the video's end is easier than what BioWare claim the final version will be. So...No one here has any idea about what the AI is actually like if, if, if, this was an early build. You are drawing a ton of conclusions based on a play-through a magazine guy did in a build that was a precursor to the final one. Try to relax. We'll know how it all shakes out on the 21st. Honestly, I don't think it will be much improved. If I have understood programming and AI correctly that is quite difficult to fix. Though I do agree with you that nobody has any idea how the finished product will be (apart from the devs and possibly reviewers). I've already written my take on all this in this thread so I won't do it again. I have low standards after all.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 28, 2017 21:52:22 GMT
Doesn't look worse than ME2/3 and I didn't expect anything more. I mean after you aquire Garrus in ME2 he seems to have aquired a taste for catching rockets with his face.
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ATR16
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
Origin: ATR16
XBL Gamertag: pydsie31
PSN: pyder31
Posts: 367 Likes: 603
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Post by ATR16 on Feb 28, 2017 21:53:07 GMT
I think the guy playing in the IGN video specifically states that the version he is playing is an early one of the game and that would mean it is not the version of the game that just went gold. He also states that the Krogan fight at the video's end is easier than what BioWare claim the final version will be. So...No one here has any idea about what the AI is actually like if, if, if, this was an early build. You are drawing a ton of conclusions based on a play-through a magazine guy did in a build that was a precursor to the final one. Try to relax. We'll know how it all shakes out on the 21st. Honestly, I don't think it will be much improved. If I have understood programming and AI correctly that is quite difficult to fix. Though I do agree with you that nobody has any idea how the finished product will be (apart from the devs and possibly reviewers). I've already written my take on all this in this thread so I won't do it again. I have low standards after all. Thats the thing and why its such a cause for concern for some players. AI is a long and complicated process, and removing the players ability to directly influence it only makes it stand out more. I don't think people expect Skynet, but once you take that element away from the player you basically need Skynet. To make bad AI is still difficult. To make competent AI is an achievement. Its a real concern if you're someone who played all the old games with an eye towards party synergy for your fun and combat.
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Post by I'm Not Dead Just Yet on Feb 28, 2017 21:57:09 GMT
Yeah, if you didn't bitch and moan about every tiny detail in a game that hasn't been released yet, I would pay attention.
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Rico01
N2
Master of low standards
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 198 Likes: 170
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Master of low standards
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Rico01 on Feb 28, 2017 22:02:36 GMT
Thats the thing and why its such a cause for concern for some players. AI is a long and complicated process, and removing the players ability to directly influence it only makes it stand out more. I don't think people expect Skynet, but once you take that element away from the player you basically need Skynet. To make bad AI is still difficult. To make competent AI is an achievement. Its a real concern if you're someone who played all the old games with an eye towards party synergy for your fun and combat. Oh I totally understand that some people are concerned about it. Those concerns are fine by me to have and there is nothing I can do to alleviate that concern. I must be able to say that I do not share that particular concern without being told I want excrement for games though. We are not alike, that is a fact of life. I do not play for party synergy as a way to have fun. If you or somebody else does, that is not my fault. And by that, I do not mean to say it is your fault either.
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jastall
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by jastall on Feb 28, 2017 22:08:05 GMT
A pillar of a squad-based game, the team AI, is outright broken. This will have a significant negative impact on how good the gameplay can get. You cannot refute that. Yet, most of the people here who actually give a shit about the gameplay dismiss this complaint as being unimportant. Why? low standards. There's a good way that I know of to deal with people that don't agree with logic (i.e. idiots), and that is to throw names. But this is a moderated forum, so I'm not doing that today. Um, yeah, Mass Effect isn't XCOM or Dragon Age. It's never been squad-based. Most people brought squaddies for the banter and the powers they offer, not because they were crack shots that did half the work themselves. Shepard always did the vast majority of the heavy lifting in actual gameplay.
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Arcian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
Prime Posts: 2473
Prime Likes: 2168
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Arcian on Feb 28, 2017 22:08:09 GMT
It is bad. Bitch all you want! Boo fucking hoo to anyone who complains about your bitching! EDIT: this was heavily edited to give obvious implication that I support Wavebend in this thread, which may be to the dismay of my current likers
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Post by smilesja on Feb 28, 2017 22:14:55 GMT
A pillar of a squad-based game, the team AI, is outright broken. This will have a significant negative impact on how good the gameplay can get. You cannot refute that. Yet, most of the people here who actually give a shit about the gameplay dismiss this complaint as being unimportant. Why? low standards. There's a good way that I know of to deal with people that don't agree with logic (i.e. idiots), and that is to throw names. But this is a moderated forum, so I'm not doing that today. Well if that's the case then expect people to ignore or dismiss your criticism if you're going to treat them like that.
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Vinland
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“You abandoned us long ago. What right do you have?”
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“You abandoned us long ago. What right do you have?”
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Post by Vinland on Feb 28, 2017 22:40:11 GMT
I have to agree; hearing that the squad-AI in a squad based game is terrible is disappointing. While it won't ruin the game play for me entirely, it definitely diminishes the fun of the combat. I remember when players were able to program the AI themselves, I think it was either Dragon Age Origins or Baldur's Gate II where you could program the AI to practically be as effective as a player and its a shame that that feature is so far removed from the most recent Bioware titles. I would hope that they would improve the AI, but at this point I recognize that its pretty much a pipe-dream.
This will be the first Mass Effect game I try and seeing this does raise some concerns, I still think the game will be good, but that's good when it could have been great.
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Post by pdusen on Feb 28, 2017 22:51:58 GMT
I didn't see anything that gave any indication the squad AI has gotten dumber since the trilogy. I think I'll live.
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felipejiraya
N2
Hey Yo
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: felipejiraya
Posts: 199 Likes: 435
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Post by felipejiraya on Feb 28, 2017 22:56:35 GMT
> implying it was good in the past
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 28, 2017 22:59:13 GMT
My personal preference is not to micro-manage my squadmates. I can tell them where to take position and when to focus on particular foes.
Beyond that, whether they are tactical geniuses or meatshields, I'll adjust accordingly.
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Nightlife
N3
Missing the Milky Way
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 687 Likes: 602
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Missing the Milky Way
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 28, 2017 23:01:34 GMT
Did Ian or someone from the team respond to this on Twitter?
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Cypher
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
XBL Gamertag: ItsFreakinJesus
PSN: TheMadTitan
Posts: 848 Likes: 1,024
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Post by Cypher on Feb 28, 2017 23:01:51 GMT
I think it's implied that the patch will be 55GB or something like that on PC. The game itself is 55GB. No one in their right mind would put out or even need a 55GB patch anytime soon. The polish thing is kind of my point. How much more is realistically going to be done? 3 weeks, 6 weeks, sounds like a long time, but it really isn't. It is a lot to ask of a Day 1 patch to fix a lot of the concerns people have been expressing. After DAI, I have less confidence that it will be sufficient. Regardless of how shit the dude was, I would hope my AI doesn't stand in the open and call for help unless I direct them to cover every single time. A lot of the decision making in the game seems to be done to remove perceived micro managing, but then to have AI be dumb unless you hold their hand is contradictory. A lot could happen in three weeks; hell, a lot can happen in a day with coding if you already know ahead of time what you need to address and what's actually causing issues. Three weeks is a decent amount of time. Had they delayed the game a month to April 21st, the same amount of time would've been taken to polish things up and the game would've gone gold March 16-21, they would've stopped development, and shoved the game out of the door for it to be pressed. Sure, it may not be up to your expectations, but it'd be better than it would've been without the patch. AI being stupid and standing out in the open is the name of the game; they did it in past Mass Effect games, they did it in Binary Domain, they did it in Army of Two, they did it in Resident Evil, they did in Gears of War. Any game with companions that are supposed to piggyback off of you or need to be controlled and managed by you always end up doing stupid shit unless you micromanage them with commands or AI routines--and even with those, they end up doing stupid shit. What I saw was no worse than what I've been experiencing the past two months replaying the trilogy or playing Gears of War 4.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 23:07:48 GMT
I think it's implied that the patch will be 55GB or something like that on PC. The game itself is 55GB. No one in their right mind would put out or even need a 55GB patch anytime soon. The polish thing is kind of my point. How much more is realistically going to be done? 3 weeks, 6 weeks, sounds like a long time, but it really isn't. It is a lot to ask of a Day 1 patch to fix a lot of the concerns people have been expressing. After DAI, I have less confidence that it will be sufficient. Regardless of how shit the dude was, I would hope my AI doesn't stand in the open and call for help unless I direct them to cover every single time. A lot of the decision making in the game seems to be done to remove perceived micro managing, but then to have AI be dumb unless you hold their hand is contradictory. A lot could happen in three weeks; hell, a lot can happen in a day with coding if you already know ahead of time what you need to address and what's actually causing issues. Three weeks is a decent amount of time. Had they delayed the game a month to April 21st, the same amount of time would've been taken to polish things up and the game would've gone gold March 16-21, they would've stopped development, and shoved the game out of the door for it to be pressed. Sure, it may not be up to your expectations, but it'd be better than it would've been without the patch. AI being stupid and standing out in the open is the name of the game; they did it in past Mass Effect games, they did it in Binary Domain, they did it in Army of Two, they did it in Resident Evil, they did in Gears of War. Any game with companions that are supposed to piggyback off of you or need to be controlled and managed by you always end up doing stupid shit unless you micromanage them with commands or AI routines--and even with those, they end up doing stupid shit. What I saw was no worse than what I've been experiencing the past two months replaying the trilogy or playing Gears of War 4. A few sites are saying the wrong thing then. Looks like info got mixed up about the game and patch. No wonder some people freaked out lol
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Post by colfoley on Feb 28, 2017 23:11:02 GMT
^ That's fair, but take this thread as an example. OP's put many videos proving his point and posters told him he was "bitching" and dismissed his opinions without even arguing. You see it a lot here when criticism gets posted. "Pssht, its barely any footage. Why would it be indicative of the game? They'll fix it. You complain too much" *if the game comes out with the same issues* "Well duh. What did you expect? It was the in the gameplay footage. Why are you surprised its in the game? All you do is complain." this comment is a bit on the strawnan.side. most of the people who are on the opposite side of this argument from you are making the point that bioware ai has always not been that great. And its not just bioware games either. In roughly twenty years of gaming i can probably count on one finger the amount of games which had good companion/ squad ai and even that game is questionable because the companion in question couldn't die. lol. Oh come on that scene in the show was epic. I dropped the show a couple of episodes into season 4, unfortunately. Which scene from the books is it? When he executes Janos Slynt? uh...no. The scene in question isn't even in the book.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 28, 2017 23:13:46 GMT
Listening to PeeBees banter gave me cancer. I really hope we can tell her to fuck off like with Sera and Dorian.
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Cypher
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
XBL Gamertag: ItsFreakinJesus
PSN: TheMadTitan
Posts: 848 Likes: 1,024
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Post by Cypher on Feb 28, 2017 23:22:56 GMT
Listening to PeeBees banter gave me cancer. I really hope we can tell her to fuck off like with Sera and Dorian. Clearly, you have horrible taste if you hate the two best characters in Inquisition.
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Post by daniel on Feb 28, 2017 23:26:08 GMT
Listening to PeeBees banter gave me cancer. I really hope we can tell her to fuck off like with Sera and Dorian. I won't be taking her on missions voluntarely either she just doesn't fit with the tone of my vision for the game.
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GannayevOfDreams
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 28, 2017 23:26:43 GMT
Listening to PeeBees banter gave me cancer. I really hope we can tell her to fuck off like with Sera and Dorian. I never told Sera to fuck off, I just left her on the bench the entire game. If what we saw is typical of Peebee I may have to do the same to her. Couldn't really bring myself to boot her, we have such a small squad as it is.
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Post by ravenous on Feb 28, 2017 23:26:46 GMT
the person playing this is completely horrible and has zero idea what they are doing and second in all of the mass effect games the ai is bad, so nothing new here
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llandwynwyn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by llandwynwyn on Feb 28, 2017 23:31:36 GMT
Listening to PeeBees banter gave me cancer. I really hope we can tell her to fuck off like with Sera and Dorian. I actually adore Sera, but it was so good telling Dorian and Blackwall to fuck off. It was a really good run, seeing Blackwall behind some npcs in the end of the GW quest still brings a smile to my face. Fucking loser. Then Gaider had the gall to pretend Dorian was the buddy of an Inquisitor that sent him away in Trespasser.
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