TaliWhacker
N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 16:46:18 GMT
First I want to say that this is not a Chicken Little post, nor does it belong in the multiplayer thread. It's about whether or not the game is deserves our faith that it will be good. I still have faith. The problem is that faith is beginning to erode. That worries me because I had more faith when they weren't saying anything then I do now.
Let's make this clear, PAX won't test the network. Now let me make it perfectly clear. There are only two reasons to cancel a Tech Test (TT from here on out, also known as a Beta). Either the developer/publisher has an extreme lack of confidence in their network stability, or there are huge problems with the game that they can't spare the resources. Both are bad news.
Saying that they tested multiplayer extensively and everything is great is not a reason that a TT would be cancelled. I'm sure they tested the multiplayer a lot (
Perhaps they cancelled to "focus on polishing and stabilizing the game" (
There is one other option. EA doesn't fucking care. Every beta ever has been bumpy. Except Halo 5's 9 month early beta that ran incredibly well in stark contrast to the 3 month old MCC which didn't work at all, but that entire scenario is ridiculous. Every launch ever has been bumpy. A tech test can only help so much, it certainly didn't seem to help For Honor. Maybe EA just doesn't think TT's are worth it now. This of course would be the best possible explanation for the sate of the game, but a really shitty one for customer faith. Something EA has never been fat on. Even if that isn't the reason, the fact that the cancelation was announced tucked away in the PAX announcement was really a poor way to handle this. I spent time signing up and that got other people to spend time signing up. Now I have wasted my time and other peoples, I am sure a lot of you can relate to this. For them not to make an announcement on it's own is disheartening. Then they flooded Twitter with fan art and fan tribute videos and an MP picture trying to bury this. Never have I seen more fan made content come form a dev before the release of the game then I have last night. Trying to sweep this under the rug instead of taking full responsibility is not an admirable way to handle this.
I expect network problems, TT or no TT. It's just what happens with a new release. I just hope that my anxiety of multiplayer being an unplayable mess is wrong. I also hope that they do something to make this right. A lot of people were looking forward to this for a long time. I know the game is coming out soon but 6 months ago when I signed up I was looking forward to playing the MP early. Those beliefs were betrayed. The whole handling has been bad, with the announcement about the TT being continually teased and not announced, and then just casually cancelled in the middle of an unrelated text drop. I don't know what, but they need to do something. A promise was broken, we deserve placation. Maybe in the form of unlimited time in MP for early access, or finally discounting the fucking Mass Effect DLC, or just a free MP pack for everyone that was signed up. I don't know but it needs to be something. Maybe that something is just that we cancel our pre-orders and adopt a wait and see attitude with the game. I am certainly finding it more difficult to place my trust in them.
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Post by jpcab on Mar 2, 2017 16:50:07 GMT
what i want is a phenomenal single player game. My primary goal.
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Post by ebevan91 on Mar 2, 2017 16:52:41 GMT
what i want is a phenomenal single player game. My primary goal. Same. I'll probably play the multiplayer some but definitely not until I finish the singleplayer. Maybe I'll play a little if my 10 hour Origin Access trial runs out. I think you can play multiplayer as much as you want during the trial.
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Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,191 Likes: 36,397
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 2, 2017 16:54:08 GMT
You 'may' be right but you have defined the parameters of the discussion as being 'BioWare is full of shit and their reason is nonsense' which it might be but is far from a total conclusion.
I don't think they are hiding anything performance wise re mp. I also think they do indeed think they have it all covered and that an additional beta will just be more work than it is worth.
I also think there will be bugs they never dreamed of and things done by players they never dreamed of that will slip by them due to no beta.
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ryerye17
N3
Biotic God
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
XBL Gamertag: UnrealSteak2197
Posts: 635 Likes: 895
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by ryerye17 on Mar 2, 2017 16:56:12 GMT
Dude, you're a little.... too invested it's slightly unhealthy. Personally, I care more for SP. Honestly, I will probably play a couple of hours of MP before getting bored of it. So servers and connectivity issues will not necessarily be a big problem for me -- but I know a lot of people love MP. Developers owe us nothing. They have a product, you like it, you purchase; you don't, you move on. We are not owed a multiplayer beta. It would be nice if we had, don't get me wrong, but you really have to chill out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 16:57:52 GMT
I've bought a very few games out of the gates, BG2 & ToSC, NWN1, NWN2 and MotB. All other games, I bought a year or more after release.
I was burned twice. NWN1 I simply hated with a passion. NWN2 had the worst bug I have ever encountered in a video-game. It froze during the final battle. Once Obsidian got a look at it, their fix was... to start a new game, and it will be fine. I repeat a fix for a crash in the last battle was to start a new game.
I've bought into a closed beta test of Revelation On-line recently. I've never seen a game in three languages simultaneously before (Chinese, Russian and seriously broken English) and I don't want to ever again.
With Bio/EA, I feel that it will all be in English and the bugs will be fixed in a way that did not make you restart the whole campaign. The bugs in MP do not worry me at all, because it is going be a long grind, and if it is halted for days or weeks because there are bugs, well, so be it.
So, yeah, I want Andromeda on Day One this time because I am around on Day One. I rarely was during my gaming life, so I am gonna savor it, bugs and all. :)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 2, 2017 17:46:22 GMT
I couldn't care less if the MP will not work due to connection instabilities and such. If the netcode is bad, it can be fixed I think, and that's all across the board but if the issues stem from a lack of polish in mechanics, level design or what have you, then my alarm bells will start to ring.
The reason I'm not that worried about the connection tech is that BF4 is currently remembered as a fun, awesome game, but I played it with Season Pass and all that BS back when it launched and I just couldn't keep doing it becuase it was so broken. Constant crashing, server issues, matchmaking errors etc. but all of it was fixed a year later. I know that doesn't bode well for the hardcore MP fans of Mass Effect -- I do think BioWare canceled the test due to concerns over problems with public servers for when the game launches, but that is a typical EA thing and not really BioWare's sole fault I don't think.
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TaliWhacker
N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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TaliWhacker
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 17:51:49 GMT
You 'may' be right but you have defined the parameters of the discussion as being 'BioWare is full of shit and their reason is nonsense' which it might be but is far from a total conclusion. I don't think they are hiding anything performance wise re mp. I also think they do indeed think they have it all covered and that an additional beta will just be more work than it is worth. I also think there will be bugs they never dreamed of and things done by players they never dreamed of that will slip by them due to no beta. Haha that is an exaggeration of what I said. Though not inaccurate. I think what I am most concerned about is 5 minutes matchmaking or more.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 17:52:11 GMT
I couldn't care less if the MP will not work due to connection instabilities and such. If the netcode is bad, it can be fixed I think It can be, but it won't be. DICE already has put so much work into BF4's netcode, with predictions, lag compensation and many optimizations (e.g. what happens near you is updated more frequently). BioWare? Look at DAIMP and cross your fingers hoping they've learned something from it. Because if not, it's going to be exactly the same shitshow. And the testing at PAX in a 0-ping environment only makes them look even worse.
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BadgerladDK
N3
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Posts: 641 Likes: 1,340
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Post by BadgerladDK on Mar 2, 2017 17:53:49 GMT
Tech test made very little sense to start with. It's not like they're using dedicated server infrastructure, it's just P2P. You can't test your way around someone using an Estonian potato as a router and then deciding "hey, if I'm host, I don't get lag" with zero regard for the experience of the other three players.
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TaliWhacker
N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 17:54:11 GMT
I couldn't care less if the MP will not work due to connection instabilities and such. If the netcode is bad, it can be fixed I think, and that's all across the board but if the issues stem from a lack of polish in mechanics, level design or what have you, then my alarm bells will start to ring. The reason I'm not that worried about the connection tech is that BF4 is currently remembered as a fun, awesome game, but I played it with Season Pass and all that BS back when it launched and I just couldn't keep doing it becuase it was so broken. Constant crashing, server issues, matchmaking errors etc. but all of it was fixed a year later. I know that doesn't bode well for the hardcore MP fans of Mass Effect -- I do think BioWare canceled the test due to concerns over problems with public servers for when the game launches, but that is a typical EA thing and not really BioWare's sole fault I don't think. So I didn't buy BF4 because of that and I don't want my that situation again. I still haven't cancelled my pre-order, I just am worried about their being issues and then my friends don't want to play multiplayer. I want to play multiplayer, that's all. After I beat shit out of the campaign that is.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 2, 2017 17:55:14 GMT
Good call, because I'd wait a month or two before going into MP if I were you too.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 2, 2017 17:56:09 GMT
Whilst EA/Orgin Access is not a beta (it's the live game) that will in effect become the test.
And more pertinent perhaps as people will very easily be able to cancel their order if the game isn't running sweetly.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 2, 2017 17:56:28 GMT
I couldn't care less if the MP will not work due to connection instabilities and such. If the netcode is bad, it can be fixed I think It can be, but it won't be. DICE already has put so much work into BF4's netcode, with predictions, lag compensation and many optimizations (e.g. what happens near you is updated more frequently). BioWare? Look at DAIMP and cross your fingers hoping they've learned something from it. Because if not, it's going to be exactly the same shitshow. And the testing at PAX in a 0-ping environment only makes them look even worse. I look at ME3 and wonder how DA:IMP happened, and my first conclusion is that BioWare didn't really get as excited or nearly as much demand for Dragon Age Multiplayer as they did for Mass Effect, and I don't think Montreal handled DA:IMP either.
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ATR16
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
Origin: ATR16
XBL Gamertag: pydsie31
PSN: pyder31
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 2, 2017 17:56:36 GMT
I agree. There is a lot of stuff over the last 2 weeks that has given me a lot of pause in terms of what my expectations should be. And it sucks because I want it to kick ass.
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TaliWhacker
N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 17:57:01 GMT
Dude, you're a little.... too invested it's slightly unhealthy. Personally, I care more for SP. Honestly, I will probably play a couple of hours of MP before getting bored of it. So servers and connectivity issues will not necessarily be a big problem for me -- but I know a lot of people love MP. Developers owe us nothing. They have a product, you like it, you purchase; you don't, you move on. We are not owed a multiplayer beta. It would be nice if we had, don't get me wrong, but you really have to chill out. What? No I am concerned, I must have literally pre-ordered the game during this announcement. If a developer says something, and they go back on it, that is a breach in trust.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 2, 2017 17:57:52 GMT
First I want to say that this is not a Chicken Little post, nor does it belong in the multiplayer thread. It's about whether or not the game is deserves our faith that it will be good. I still have faith. The problem is that faith is beginning to erode. That worries me because I had more faith when they weren't saying anything then I do now. Let's make this clear, PAX won't test the network. Now let me make it perfectly clear. There are only two reasons to cancel a Tech Test (TT from here on out, also known as a Beta). Either the developer/publisher has an extreme lack of confidence in their network stability, or there are huge problems with the game that they can't spare the resources. Both are bad news. Saying that they tested multiplayer extensively and everything is great is not a reason that a TT would be cancelled. I'm sure they tested the multiplayer a lot ( Perhaps they cancelled to "focus on polishing and stabilizing the game" ( There is one other option. EA doesn't fucking care. Every beta ever has been bumpy. Except Halo 5's 9 month early beta that ran incredibly well in stark contrast to the 3 month old MCC which didn't work at all, but that entire scenario is ridiculous. Every launch ever has been bumpy. A tech test can only help so much, it certainly didn't seem to help For Honor. Maybe EA just doesn't think TT's are worth it now. This of course would be the best possible explanation for the sate of the game, but a really shitty one for customer faith. Something EA has never been fat on. Even if that isn't the reason, the fact that the cancelation was announced tucked away in the PAX announcement was really a poor way to handle this. I spent time signing up and that got other people to spend time signing up. Now I have wasted my time and other peoples, I am sure a lot of you can relate to this. For them not to make an announcement on it's own is disheartening. Then they flooded Twitter with fan art and fan tribute videos and an MP picture trying to bury this. Never have I seen more fan made content come form a dev before the release of the game then I have last night. Trying to sweep this under the rug instead of taking full responsibility is not an admirable way to handle this. I expect network problems, TT or no TT. It's just what happens with a new release. I just hope that my anxiety of multiplayer being an unplayable mess is wrong. I also hope that they do something to make this right. A lot of people were looking forward to this for a long time. I know the game is coming out soon but 6 months ago when I signed up I was looking forward to playing the MP early. Those beliefs were betrayed. The whole handling has been bad, with the announcement about the TT being continually teased and not announced, and then just casually cancelled in the middle of an unrelated text drop. I don't know what, but they need to do something. A promise was broken, we deserve placation. Maybe in the form of unlimited time in MP for early access, or finally discounting the fucking Mass Effect DLC, or just a free MP pack for everyone that was signed up. I don't know but it needs to be something. Maybe that something is just that we cancel our pre-orders and adopt a wait and see attitude with the game. I am certainly finding it more difficult to place my trust in them. They are scrambling to get it out the door, it's end of the fiscal year. Any later and it would be released in the next fiscal year. So do consider that.
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TaliWhacker
N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 17:59:31 GMT
Whilst EA/Orgin Access is not a beta (it's the live game) that will in effect become the test. And more pertinent perhaps as people will very easily be able to cancel their order if the game isn't running sweetly. Yeah but it isn't a proper stress test. I just want the game to run well and I went the multiplayer to function well enough that my friends want to play.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 17:59:58 GMT
Tech test made very little sense to start with. It's not like they're using dedicated server infrastructure, it's just P2P. You can't test your way around someone using an Estonian potato as a router and then deciding "hey, if I'm host, I don't get lag" with zero regard for the experience of the other three players. Are you serious? Tech test = players (most players are far better than BioWer's QA) get to find/report game-breaking exploits and sort out balancing issues. Remember early in DAIMP with the promotion hack? Turn on your lagswitch and promote to infinity - I don't think BioWare is even capable of imagining stuff like this.
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KR96
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Passion. Pride. Bluff.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by KR96 on Mar 2, 2017 18:02:29 GMT
They are scrambling to get it out the door, it's end of the fiscal year. Any later and it would be released in the next fiscal year. So do consider that. Obviously. The whole last minute polishing when they found out the facial animations are getting criticized says it all, really. The already established need for a day one patch because the game simply hasn't been polished sufficiently is a huge red flag that this game is being rushed.
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ATR16
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
Origin: ATR16
XBL Gamertag: pydsie31
PSN: pyder31
Posts: 367 Likes: 603
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 2, 2017 18:03:36 GMT
First I want to say that this is not a Chicken Little post, nor does it belong in the multiplayer thread. It's about whether or not the game is deserves our faith that it will be good. I still have faith. The problem is that faith is beginning to erode. That worries me because I had more faith when they weren't saying anything then I do now. Let's make this clear, PAX won't test the network. Now let me make it perfectly clear. There are only two reasons to cancel a Tech Test (TT from here on out, also known as a Beta). Either the developer/publisher has an extreme lack of confidence in their network stability, or there are huge problems with the game that they can't spare the resources. Both are bad news. Saying that they tested multiplayer extensively and everything is great is not a reason that a TT would be cancelled. I'm sure they tested the multiplayer a lot ( Perhaps they cancelled to "focus on polishing and stabilizing the game" ( There is one other option. EA doesn't fucking care. Every beta ever has been bumpy. Except Halo 5's 9 month early beta that ran incredibly well in stark contrast to the 3 month old MCC which didn't work at all, but that entire scenario is ridiculous. Every launch ever has been bumpy. A tech test can only help so much, it certainly didn't seem to help For Honor. Maybe EA just doesn't think TT's are worth it now. This of course would be the best possible explanation for the sate of the game, but a really shitty one for customer faith. Something EA has never been fat on. Even if that isn't the reason, the fact that the cancelation was announced tucked away in the PAX announcement was really a poor way to handle this. I spent time signing up and that got other people to spend time signing up. Now I have wasted my time and other peoples, I am sure a lot of you can relate to this. For them not to make an announcement on it's own is disheartening. Then they flooded Twitter with fan art and fan tribute videos and an MP picture trying to bury this. Never have I seen more fan made content come form a dev before the release of the game then I have last night. Trying to sweep this under the rug instead of taking full responsibility is not an admirable way to handle this. I expect network problems, TT or no TT. It's just what happens with a new release. I just hope that my anxiety of multiplayer being an unplayable mess is wrong. I also hope that they do something to make this right. A lot of people were looking forward to this for a long time. I know the game is coming out soon but 6 months ago when I signed up I was looking forward to playing the MP early. Those beliefs were betrayed. The whole handling has been bad, with the announcement about the TT being continually teased and not announced, and then just casually cancelled in the middle of an unrelated text drop. I don't know what, but they need to do something. A promise was broken, we deserve placation. Maybe in the form of unlimited time in MP for early access, or finally discounting the fucking Mass Effect DLC, or just a free MP pack for everyone that was signed up. I don't know but it needs to be something. Maybe that something is just that we cancel our pre-orders and adopt a wait and see attitude with the game. I am certainly finding it more difficult to place my trust in them. They are scrambling to get it out the door, it's end of the fiscal year. Any later and it would be released in the next fiscal year. So do consider that. This is what is killing me. We're basically at launch and there isn't a single bit of footage that doesn't have the "Don't pay attention to the bugs and lack of polish and weird shit, we're totally fixing it." And cancelling the stress test of their network is another not-great sign. I feel like they may have gotten a little too DAI on the game. Wanting to do 150 things, not being able to and then scrambling to scale it back down to just 100 things that work just before the deadline.
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BadgerladDK
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 641 Likes: 1,340
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Post by BadgerladDK on Mar 2, 2017 18:06:07 GMT
Tech test made very little sense to start with. It's not like they're using dedicated server infrastructure, it's just P2P. You can't test your way around someone using an Estonian potato as a router and then deciding "hey, if I'm host, I don't get lag" with zero regard for the experience of the other three players. Are you serious? Tech test = players (most players are far better than BioWer's QA) get to find/report game-breaking exploits and sort out balancing issues. Remember early in DAIMP with the promotion hack? Turn on your lagswitch and promote to infinity - I don't think BioWare is even capable of imagining stuff like this. That's more into the territory of a proper beta, though. And that was never on the cards. Though it should have been.
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Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,191 Likes: 36,397
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 2, 2017 18:10:17 GMT
Tech test made very little sense to start with. It's not like they're using dedicated server infrastructure, it's just P2P. You can't test your way around someone using an Estonian potato as a router and then deciding "hey, if I'm host, I don't get lag" with zero regard for the experience of the other three players. Are you serious? Tech test = players (most players are far better than BioWer's QA) get to find/report game-breaking exploits and sort out balancing issues. Remember early in DAIMP with the promotion hack? Turn on your lagswitch and promote to infinity - I don't think BioWare is even capable of imagining stuff like this. This is the truth, players find ways to do things that would never occur to devs. (The pipes on FB Hydra exploit that to my knowledge is still there.)
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TaliWhacker
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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taliwhacker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TaliWhacker on Mar 2, 2017 18:12:56 GMT
They are scrambling to get it out the door, it's end of the fiscal year. Any later and it would be released in the next fiscal year. So do consider that. God Damn-it you aren't helping!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 18:13:18 GMT
Don't buy it on release!
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