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Post by naytnavare on Mar 8, 2017 6:55:22 GMT
What the title says.
I brought this up as a thought before, but it stuck with me; based on how different and unique an individual most of humanity finds itself being, it'd be foolish to think that, after years of interaction with humans and quarians, no asari has thought 'I don't feel right in my body.'
Now, obviously, lore states that asari are female monogendered. I certainly don't mean to go against this. But I do think it'd be an interesting charcter study, of a person who sees another race, another gender so alien to them, and feels it's where, how they truly belong, and they make steps to reach that internal and external union of identity.
Or I'm just an idiot. I don't l know (though I expect much sarcasm), but, thoughts? Empty premise, enticing reflection of humanity, interesting change to a staple dynamic, curious character study?
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Post by shepherdcommander on Mar 8, 2017 6:59:20 GMT
i kind of like this idea but only if they do it for multiple groups and species, maybe in one section of a bar or something..
the mass effect equivalent of furries or whatever, humans who want to be turians and dress up with mandibles and stilts, and an asari who wants to be a human male, or a batarian male even (if it were a human male i would think it would be a younger asari since humans are relatively new to interstellar civilization), human and turian and other women dressing up as asari would be a common cosplay in mass effect universe i would think.
ton of fanservice potential, would be funny to see krogan cosplayer trying to hit on them to no avail, for instance.
Edit: after thinking more, I thought my answer might have gone against what you were really hoping for: the reason I said that an asari who wants to be male would have to choose between being a human male, or batarian male, or krogan male, etc, as opposed to being a true "asari transgender" asari male, is for exactly the same reasons that you state, you don't want to go against lore of asari being monogendered, and, more importantly, that it only comes from the interaction with another species that this feeling becomes known to the asari, as you said only "after years of interaction with humans and quarians, no asari has thought 'I don't feel right in my body.' [...] sees another race, another gender so alien to them, and feels it's where, how they truly belong, and they make steps to reach that internal and external union of identity."
so no I dont think a pure transgender asari is very lore friendly... but I could be wrong, "based on how different and unique an individual most of humanity finds itself being, it'd be foolish to think that" it would be impossible for an infinite individual to feel any given way (That just sounds like something better left to fanfic, imo).
edit2: still thinking about this lol, the asari use feminine pronouns to address each other she/her, and refer to their deities as goddesses, etc., presumably all the races speak their own languages, or even multiple languages per species as humans speak so many different languages, and it is only through the universal translators that individuals are really able to communicate, which is why i find the accents helarious in that context personally, ao the universal translator would use feminine pronouns when translating for humans because humans recognize asari as feminine. if the asari made contact with a plant species or another really alien species that did not recognize them as female the translator may not refer to them as such. and any transgender asari, if possible, would probably have to mod their comms system and link to others translators.
...but yeah i think asari are just monogendered, and really they might even have a hard time understanding how another species can be split... i.e. in my cosplay example, which is not necessarily as 'serious' as being fully trans/identifying as another species, it could be possible that an asari cosplays as what appears to be a primarily human male but incidentally wears a human females' necklace and human females' earings, not realizing that this is typically a human female thing to wear, the cosplayer who is not serious only knows that they are human and being asari didnt realize the distinction between male/female really mattered that much.
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Post by ryerye17 on Mar 8, 2017 10:59:26 GMT
So less transgendered....more trans-species? An Asari who fancies herself a Krogan?
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 8, 2017 13:48:10 GMT
Well technically some Asari already exhibit more masculine traits, but since their bodies also are similar to humans I don't really see a reason why they couldn't go through the same gender transformation that humans go through.
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Post by urkibalurki on Mar 8, 2017 13:54:30 GMT
They have no gender, so they can't be transgender.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 8, 2017 14:41:17 GMT
They have no gender, so they can't be transgender. In game they say they are monogendered, which means one gender, and the one they comply to is what is comparable to female based on their shared traits with females of other species. If they had no gender they would be called agendered.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 8, 2017 15:05:46 GMT
They have no gender, so they can't be transgender. In game they say they are monogendered, which means one gender, and the one they comply to is what is comparable to female based on their shared traits with females of other species. If they had no gender they would be called agendered. Semantics aside I agree with the other guy. Asari have no gender to trans to. Anything of that sort would be becoming more alien, relative to them.
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Post by urkibalurki on Mar 8, 2017 15:44:05 GMT
In game they say they are monogendered, which means one gender, and the one they comply to is what is comparable to female based on their shared traits with females of other species. If they had no gender they would be called agendered. Semantics aside I agree with the other guy. Asari have no gender to trans to. Anything of that sort would be becoming more alien, relative to them. Besides, I remember Liara explaining asari culture to Shepard in ME; she explicitly said that in their own language there isn't any gender distinction. So, yes: they consider themselves agendered. Only two-gendered people like humans consider them females.
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Post by Mihura on Mar 8, 2017 15:58:55 GMT
What the title says. I brought this up as a thought before, but it stuck with me; based on how different and unique an individual most of humanity finds itself being, it'd be foolish to think that, after years of interaction with humans and quarians, no asari has thought 'I don't feel right in my body.' Now, obviously, lore states that asari are female monogendered. I certainly don't mean to go against this. But I do think it'd be an interesting charcter study, of a person who sees another race, another gender so alien to them, and feels it's where, how they truly belong, and they make steps to reach that internal and external union of identity. Or I'm just an idiot. I don't l know (though I expect much sarcasm), but, thoughts? Empty premise, enticing reflection of humanity, interesting change to a staple dynamic, curious character study? I would like them to explore this too and to some degree they did with the concept of the "father" therm, actually this could bring to light the whole trans, gender-fluid and of course the binary gender culture that humans have. Maybe we could get an Asari scientist exploring this on the human side, they could find that people restrict themselves because of certain human society expectations and gender is only a culture concept that limits the full potencial of some individuals, and that the Asari are more free from that, since being one gender makes them all equal in those therm?
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Post by laxian on Mar 8, 2017 17:28:05 GMT
What the title says. I brought this up as a thought before, but it stuck with me; based on how different and unique an individual most of humanity finds itself being, it'd be foolish to think that, after years of interaction with humans and quarians, no asari has thought 'I don't feel right in my body.' Now, obviously, lore states that asari are female monogendered. I certainly don't mean to go against this. But I do think it'd be an interesting charcter study, of a person who sees another race, another gender so alien to them, and feels it's where, how they truly belong, and they make steps to reach that internal and external union of identity. Or I'm just an idiot. I don't l know (though I expect much sarcasm), but, thoughts? Empty premise, enticing reflection of humanity, interesting change to a staple dynamic, curious character study? Sorry, but female is kind of wrong - mono-gendered? Yes, but they just look "female" in fact the Asari are by nature transgender (more or less, they find themselves somewhere on that spectrum, they don't identify as male or female (they as a race don't really have that concept and they don't need it either!)) greetings LAX ps: More gender-politics in games? I hope not, I wouldn't have a problem with transgender characters if they were done right (not transgender to be transgender but an interesting character that just happens to be transgender!)
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Mar 8, 2017 17:34:56 GMT
Well technically some Asari already exhibit more masculine traits, but since their bodies also are similar to humans I don't really see a reason why they couldn't go through the same gender transformation that humans go through. I agree that some Asari already embody what humans would consider masculine, but I don't think they'd see a need to change their form. From a monogendered species' perspective I'd imagine that all forms of expression are equally valid for their one gender. They don't need to change physically to express certain traits... they just express those traits. I could see some Asari perhaps being trans-species. Particularly if they come from a long line of alien fathers. Though... with their lifespans so long there aren't a lot generations to for a good representative sample.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 8, 2017 17:43:11 GMT
There are people in real life who identity as "non-binary", "dual-spririt" and other stuff that doesn't exist biologically, so I don't see why the Asari not having multiple genders would stop them.
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Post by kaind on Mar 8, 2017 22:52:54 GMT
There are people in real life who identity as "non-binary", "dual-spririt" and other stuff that doesn't exist biologically, so I don't see why the Asari not having multiple genders would stop them. Gender does not exist biologically, only sex does.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 8, 2017 23:20:53 GMT
There are people in real life who identity as "non-binary", "dual-spririt" and other stuff that doesn't exist biologically, so I don't see why the Asari not having multiple genders would stop them. Gender does not exist biologically, only sex does. If that were the case gender dysphoria wouldn't exist. The fact that some people identify as the opposite gender because of intrinsic brain structure or chemistry, regardless of sex and cultural input, implies that gender identity is at least partly biological as well. If our gender identity is something we are born with, how can it not be biological? You could argue that we aren't born with it, but that discredits the many transgender people who claim that they were 'born as' or 'meant to be' the opposite sex.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Mar 8, 2017 23:42:35 GMT
Gender does not exist biologically, only sex does. If that were the case gender dysphoria wouldn't exist. The fact that some people identify as the opposite gender because of intrinsic brain structure or chemistry, regardless of sex and cultural input, implies that gender identity is at least partly biological as well. If our gender identity is something we are born with, how can it not be biological? You could argue that we aren't born with it, but that discredits the many transgender people who claim that they were 'born as' or 'meant to be' the opposite sex. If you were born into a world with no other people, even no other animal to base your behavior on, would gender dysphoria exist? To identify as something "other" you first have to have identities defined by... something. For us it's society. Society (shorthand for the majority in this case) has an idea of what male and female mean... but what if that didn't exist? Asari, to me, have a society in which every form of expression is acceptable under the scope of their gender... because there is only one sex. There is nothing to transition to. The only reason humans do is because as a society we've built certain expectations about what it means to be our disparate genders. So if the way you think, feel, or behave aligns with a gender other than your sex, you have the option to transition to a state in which the two constructs are more aligned.
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Post by kaind on Mar 8, 2017 23:42:52 GMT
Gender does not exist biologically, only sex does. If that were the case gender dysphoria wouldn't exist. The fact that some people identify as the opposite gender because of intrinsic brain structure or chemistry, regardless of sex and cultural input, implies that gender identity is at least partly biological as well. If our gender identity is something we are born with, how can it not be biological? You could argue that we aren't born with it, but that discredits the many transgender people who claim that they were 'born as' or 'meant to be' the opposite sex. You are not born with a gender identity you acquire it, and some don't, myself for example, I don't have a gender identity. Brain structure varies from individual to individual not from sex to sex, even if some things are more common in one sex than the other.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 9, 2017 0:03:47 GMT
If that were the case gender dysphoria wouldn't exist. The fact that some people identify as the opposite gender because of intrinsic brain structure or chemistry, regardless of sex and cultural input, implies that gender identity is at least partly biological as well. If our gender identity is something we are born with, how can it not be biological? You could argue that we aren't born with it, but that discredits the many transgender people who claim that they were 'born as' or 'meant to be' the opposite sex. If you were born into a world with no other people, even no other animal to base your behavior on, would gender dysphoria exist? To identify as something "other" you first have to have identities defined by... something. For us it's society. Society (shorthand for the majority in this case) has an idea of what male and female mean... but what if that didn't exist? Asari, to me, have a society in which every form of expression is acceptable under the scope of their gender... because there is only one sex. There is nothing to transition to. The only reason humans do is because as a society we've built certain expectations about what it means to be our disparate genders. So if the way you think, feel, or behave aligns with a gender other than your sex, you have the option to transition to a state in which the two constructs are more aligned. A person with gender dysphoria would still have gender dysphoria if there were no other humans around, they just wouldn't know about it because they wouldn't have anything to compare themselves to. I do believe it's entirely something you are born with. If transgender people are the way they are because of external influence that implies it can be cured and fixed, while if it is intrinsic that legitimizes their status and the support they receive. I do see your point on the Asari, however.
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Post by kaind on Mar 9, 2017 0:07:46 GMT
If transgender people are the way they are because of external influence that implies it can be cured and fixed, while if it is intrinsic that legitimizes their status and the support they receive. Allegory: I wasn't born liking video games. Me liking video games is legit. There is no reason for people that don't like video games to look down on me. I don't think you can do anything at this point when it comes to make me stop liking video games aka cure me.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 9, 2017 0:15:00 GMT
If transgender people are the way they are because of external influence that implies it can be cured and fixed, while if it is intrinsic that legitimizes their status and the support they receive. Allegory: I wasn't born liking video games. Me liking video games is legit. There is no reason for people that don't like video games to look down on me. I don't think you can do anything at this point when it comes to make me stop liking video games aka cure me. My love of video games doesn't lead to me getting invasive and expensive surgery and hormone therapy that leaves me sterile- paid for using government money. If gender identity is just a malleable social construct there is no justification for putting kids on hormone therapy when you could just give them counselling that helps them accept their bodies the way they are.
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Post by kaind on Mar 9, 2017 0:21:15 GMT
If gender identity is a malleable social construct there is no justification for putting kids on hormone therapy when you could just give them counselling that helps them accept their bodies the way they are. Laws don't exist in nature too yet we abide by them. Just because gender is a social construct doesn't mean that it's not a thing. You have to abolish gender instead of counseling kids, because so long as it exists such problems will arise.
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Post by shepherdcommander on Mar 9, 2017 0:23:23 GMT
If you were born into a world with no other people, even no other animal to base your behavior on, would gender dysphoria exist? To identify as something "other" you first have to have identities defined by... something. For us it's society. Society (shorthand for the majority in this case) has an idea of what male and female mean... but what if that didn't exist? Asari, to me, have a society in which every form of expression is acceptable under the scope of their gender... because there is only one sex. There is nothing to transition to. The only reason humans do is because as a society we've built certain expectations about what it means to be our disparate genders. So if the way you think, feel, or behave aligns with a gender other than your sex, you have the option to transition to a state in which the two constructs are more aligned. A person with gender dysphoria would still have gender dysphoria if there were no other humans around, they just wouldn't know about it because they wouldn't have anything to compare themselves to. I do believe it's entirely something you are born with. If transgender people are the way they are because of external influence that implies it can be cured and fixed, while if it is intrinsic that legitimizes their status and the support they receive. I do see your point on the Asari, however. It is funny that you say that because this is a point raised to argue both sides.. people who want to support trans, that is, they want to support people based on their emotions, their thoughts, how they feel and think, as opposed to how they look and are, can argue that it is a personal choice influenced by environmental upbringing and culture, and they can argue that the person was born predisposed to having these feelings and beliefs, in either case the person wants to support the emotional and thought-based logic of people over their physical attributes. people who want to support black-and-white physical biology as a end-all-be-all for humanity, or who have religious beliefs that hang towards specific gender roles, or given any other reason to think and feel that physical president comes before thinking and feeling, which is not without substance: utilitarianism and the philosophy of communism has its place in this universe, as it relates to humanity is up for debate. well, they can do so by stating that the problem lies in environment and upbringing, that children should therefore be brought up a certain way as to empirically produce the most virile humans possible and 'spread the cause', or by stating that some humans are simply genetically predisposed to being 'superior'. in either case a 'cure' through genetics or environments is possible, but in either case a 'cure' can be seen as impossible via the fact that their is nothing to be 'cured' of; that the problem is not recognized as a problem, but instead as an inconsequential, simply unique/different, or actually helpful/beneficial trait to have.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 9, 2017 0:40:09 GMT
If gender identity is a malleable social construct there is no justification for putting kids on hormone therapy when you could just give them counselling that helps them accept their bodies the way they are. Laws don't exist in nature too yet we abide by them. Just because gender is a social construct doesn't mean that it's not a thing. You have to abolish gender instead of counseling kids, because so long as it exists such problems will arise. You can't abolish gender because it's baked into the core of our being. Social behaviors are just as evolved as biological traits. Humanity's predisposition to monogamy, family units, sexual attraction to certain appearances and behaviors, sexuality and gender... It's all linked. You can't "abolish" gender without removing biological sex and sexuality along with it, because as long as those exist, so will genders.
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Post by kaind on Mar 9, 2017 0:50:57 GMT
Laws don't exist in nature too yet we abide by them. Just because gender is a social construct doesn't mean that it's not a thing. You have to abolish gender instead of counseling kids, because so long as it exists such problems will arise. You can't abolish gender because it's baked into the core of our being. Social behaviors are just as evolved as biological traits. Humanity's predisposition to monogamy, family units, sexual attraction to certain appearances and behaviors, sexuality and gender... It's all linked. You can't "abolish" gender without removing biological sex and sexuality along with it, because as long as those exist, so will genders. Biological sex is not linked to gender in any way and you cannot remove it, since unlike gender it is a physical thing. Also all the things that you named is what gender is linked to, not the other way around. Also I will remind you one more time that I do not have a gender. So it's not something that is baked into ''our'' core.
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 2,288 Likes: 5,225
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Amateur Reporter
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Nov 25, 2024 23:14:30 GMT
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Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 9, 2017 0:51:22 GMT
Monogender species can't be transgender. They have only one gender, geez. There's nothing in their genetics to be another gender too.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 9, 2017 9:23:49 GMT
Monogender species can't be transgender. They have only one gender, geez. There's nothing in their genetics to be another gender too. We're in a series with Asari eyebrows now. Anything goes with wacky Bioware!
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