I want a transgender Asari charcter.

Why does this thread exist?

What is gender? What is your gender and how do you know it? Be specific.

What is this? 

I don't doubt that people are just the way they are and they are not going to change, but it doesn't really go any deeper than the fact that gender is simply a social construct. 

So, I'm gonna answer these in this thread because it was getting very off-topic in the romance thread (it wasn't off-topic when I started it because it was related to the romance options, but I think it got a bit out of hand, so) I would like to apologize for just sort of barging in here, I haven't read any of the previous posts in this thread and I'm posting this here only because this was the most relevant thread. The most accurate thread would be "Can Asari be trans and what does that mean for romance options" but since that doesn't exist... and for anyone who's about to reply to this post, please read the beginning of the discussion in the Character Romance thread first, starts around page 660-661

Actually that is what I'm talking about  Or rather, why I asked the question in the first place. And I can't believe I didn't think about that - you're right. It doesn't even matter. Because we perceive them as female, so they would be female romances.

But... if an Asari, as the voice clip suggests, prefers male pronouns, would that make them trans male? In which case they would be trans male romances, which... god this is a whole different discussion. Because then, these hypothetical trans male Asari LIs would be an option for pan players, no? Or would they try to sell them as m/m romances for gay men (but the people who are complaining about the lack of m/m content are gay men who are interested in cis men), but really they wouldn't be m/m romances because Asari can't have gender dysphoria, can't feel the need to transition, and if they did use male pronouns it would only be for convenience. This is why I was angry, because I think what Tom said implies that Asari can be m/m romances, and like... dear devs... do I need to explain how fucking stupid that is? Unless Asari can be trans, that is, but it really doesn't look like it, so idk.

Okay, first of all how are you not allowed to talk about this? Go ahead and please add whatever you can to the discussion (and first-hand information is even better because it's more accurate), I started this discussion in the first place because I wanted different opinions on the subject, so thank you  

That's what I think, as well. They have no concept of gender, socially or biologically. An Asari can't be male simply because it isn't possible, they biologically have no "males" (or "females" either, technically) But then there's the fact that the Asari spend a lot of time with other species that do have a concept of gender, and to them Asari are female. So like people have said, some Asari can have a social concept of gender, and therefore decide to identify as male, but even then...
I think we need to know if Asari have sex chromosomes. Because otherwise this conversation isn't going anywhere  We're running in circles. Any lore experts around? 

And you're wrong again.

You're looking at the entire phenomenon from the completely wrong angle. You think gender roles are the result of societal and cultural norms, but the opposite is actually true. Our societal and cultural gender norms are the result of our biology. This is why gender roles are so fucking common among the vast majority of animal species. We humans aren't the only species with gender roles. 


Let me break it down for you:

We are all biologically male and female, fact.
There are biological differences between males and females, not just on a surface level, but also on a hormonal level, fact.
Our hormones have a large influence on how we grow up, they influence our sense of self, our identity, how we develop, how we feel and how we behave, fact.
Therefor, because of these physiological and hormonal difference between the male and female, both sexes manifest themselves in different ways, fact.
The difference between how both sexes manifest themselves is what we call gender, fact.
How the male sex manifests itself is the male gender, how the female sex manifests itself is the female gender, fact.
These gendered manifestations result in the male and female identities, fact.
Sometimes, a person ends up with the body of one sex, but the mental development of the other sex, fact.
While the exact cause and nature of this phenomenon is yet unknown, it is almost certainly related to a persons genetics, thus of a biological nature, fact.
This will then result in a person identifying as the gender opposite to their sex, fact.
These people are called trans-gender, fact.
These people often develop gender dysphoria, a mental disorder that causes great distress for the trans-gender person, fact.
While gender dysphoria can be the result of the biological mismatch between the person's sex and gender, it can also be caused by completely different factors, or be the result of other mental disorders such as severe depression or bipolar disorder, fact.
It is therefor crucial to identify the origin and nature of a person's gender dysphoria to select the appropriate treatment. Sometimes hormone therapy and a sex-change operation is not the correct course of action. Sometimes tackling the root cause of gender dysphoria can cure it and the person will go back to normal without the need of a sex-change, and sometimes the person will simply grow over it and thus not needing a sex-change either, fact.
It is not however a simple matter of choosing to be a different gender, or to forgo gender norms altogether expecting that will cure the gender dysphoria. It is never that simple, fact.

So you agree with everything I said, except the fact that gender manifestations are biological. Well, at least that narrows down the discussion.

Yes, each human is unique, obviously, but there are clear hormonal trends/norms in our species as a whole. We are all more similar than we are different. And there are clear differentiating patterns in terms of hormonal and brain development between the male and female gender. If you're a man, you're going to have more testosterone than your female relatives, no matter how much of a special snowflake you are. If you're a woman, you're going to have more estrogen than your male relatives. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but the exceptions are few and far between and they do not disprove the generality.

I know gender manifestation is not 100% dependent on nature, in reality it's a combination of nature and nurture. The fact that gender roles exist in the first place is entirely because of our biology. The way gender manifests itself is a combination of nature and nurture. The expectations and standards we have for each gender is largely just nurture.
But you're in denial and claiming it's all 100% nurture, and that's just simply not true. There is no evidence that it's all just 100% nurture with no grounds in biology, there is in fact plenty of evidence to the contrary.

It is obvious that nature has everything to do with gender based on the fact that gender roles are not exclusive to humans, we see them in most animals, and often they manifest themselves in similar ways. For example, "peacocking" (the act of trying to impress a woman by presenting yourself in an extravagant way) is incredibly common behavior for the male gender in lots of different species. It's why the peacock has his beautiful tail. It's why the lion has his long wavy manes. It's why male birds of paradise have such extravagant mating dances (check this if you haven't seen it, it's really impressive). And it's why human males visit the gym, wear cologne, drive expensive cars (if they have the money) and grow a well-kept beard. It's why "macho culture" exists. It's a result of our nature which manifested itself into a societal norm, NOT the other way around!

*sigh* Yes, I know, "not all human males", again, exceptions do not disprove generalities.

Source?




That article is full with falsehoods. Not surprising as it's from NBC, since when were they ever a trustworthy source?

There is an entire wikipedia article dedicated to the differences between male and female brains, covered from all angles, with multiple source listed:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences




That is up for debate. We simply don't know how much of it is nature and how much of it is nurture. Most psychologists put the estimate around a 50/50 split but honestly it's just an educated guess. It also really depends on what level of brain development we're looking at. For example, we already see the brain developing in different ways within the womb before the child is even born. Obviously that's 100% nature.




Weren't you actually the person who claimed gender is nothing but a set of behaviors, e.g. character?

I'm lost... I thought I understood the point-of-view and angle you were arguing from but this part of your comment threw me completely off. Can you define to me what you think "gender" means and how that's different from "character"?