Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 2:13:46 GMT
And yet you still hold on to your faulty beliefs that gender is constructed by society. Clearly you didn't study it well enough. Gender is a concept created by society.. and your case sucks, it's faulty. Meanwhile, back in Canada, things were not so good for the Reimer family. Brenda behaved in a distinctly masculine fashion. She liked running and fighting and climbing and loathed playing with dolls. She had no friends and was increasingly lonely as her twin Brian was embarrassed to play with her in front of his other friends. She hated going to visit Dr Money.That is sexist, there are plenty girls that like to fight, climb and loath playing with dolls. He insisted that to fully understand that she was a girl, she needed to grasp the difference between men and women There is none. The difference is from individual to individual. There are characteristics that are more common in one gender than the other but that is never an inherent difference. Hmmm... If gender is a concept created by society, then why does gender dysphoria exist? Why do trans people exist at all? I don't think it's that cut and dry.
|
|
kaind
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
inherit
2955
0
Oct 10, 2017 22:21:08 GMT
511
kaind
605
Jan 24, 2017 18:55:50 GMT
January 2017
kaind
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by kaind on Mar 14, 2017 2:16:04 GMT
Hmmm... If gender is a concept created by society, then why does gender dysphoria exist? Why do trans people exist at all? I don't think it's that cut and dry. I already answered this in this thread. Just because gender is a concept created by society doesn't mean that it is not a thing. Yes, gender was created by society, but it exists, it is real, and it plays a big role in our lives. When it stops being a thing, there will be no gender dysphoria.
|
|
inherit
The Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist
714
0
Aug 13, 2016 22:27:41 GMT
3,555
Lorn
2,190
August 2016
lorn
|
Post by Lorn on Mar 14, 2017 2:54:52 GMT
And yet you still hold on to your faulty beliefs that gender is constructed by society. Clearly you didn't study it well enough. Gender is a concept created by society.. and your case sucks, it's faulty. Meanwhile, back in Canada, things were not so good for the Reimer family. Brenda behaved in a distinctly masculine fashion. She liked running and fighting and climbing and loathed playing with dolls. She had no friends and was increasingly lonely as her twin Brian was embarrassed to play with her in front of his other friends. She hated going to visit Dr Money.That is sexist, there are plenty girls that like to fight, climb and loath playing with dolls. He insisted that to fully understand that she was a girl, she needed to grasp the difference between men and women There is none. The difference is from individual to individual. There are characteristics that are more common in one gender than the other but that is never an inherent difference. No, it is your case that is faulty. Not only do you believe that gender is a social construct, but you believe that the faults with the case of Bruce/Brenda/David Reimer is in any way beneficial to your argument. If gender was indeed a "social construct" then Brenda Reimer would NOT have acted like a young boy. In fact, Brenda Reimer would have acted EXACTLY as Dr. Money said she did in his paper, Brenda Reimer would have remained Brenda and not decided to "transition" to a boy. Money's paper has gone on to influence feminism and "gender theory" for decades. The fact that you're arguing against something that supposedly proves your beliefs is just icing on the cake! Really? There are no differences between the genders? Well, I suppose that's a position one could take if they believed that gender was a social construct, however it (shockingly) ignores the scientific evidence that shows other wise. Specifically, the way pathways are formed in the brain, which hormones the body produces, etc: www.webmd.com/brain/features/how-male-female-brains-differ#1While I generally loathe Psychology Today, I am going to link one of their articles, specifically: Brain Differences Between Genders
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
81
0
12,173
ToLazy4Name
4,618
August 2016
tolazy4name
|
Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 14, 2017 3:10:57 GMT
yo girls got tiddies and that's noticeably different from what i've got
|
|
inherit
The Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist
714
0
Aug 13, 2016 22:27:41 GMT
3,555
Lorn
2,190
August 2016
lorn
|
Post by Lorn on Mar 14, 2017 3:15:57 GMT
Hmmm... If gender is a concept created by society, then why does gender dysphoria exist? Why do trans people exist at all? I don't think it's that cut and dry. I already answered this in this thread. Just because gender is a concept created by society doesn't mean that it is not a thing. Yes, gender was created by society, but it exists, it is real, and it plays a big role in our lives. When it stops being a thing, there will be no gender dysphoria. Oh this is grand, first you argue that gender isn't real and then you argue that it is real. Not only is it real, but it PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN OUR LIVES! It's almost as if you're expressing a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. Another nail in the coffin of the faulty belief that "gender is a social construct" is by examining the behavior of the other creatures that we share this planet with. First we shall take a look at the arachnids, specifically the Latrodectus (the Widow spider species). Male latrodectus will select their mates by choosing ones that have already eaten, while females will attempt to eat the males after sex (provided the male spider is unable to escape). In this case, the female spiders devouring the male spiders would be a gender norm. For the next and final case we shall observe the differences of behavior in panthera leo (lions). In comparison to the arachnids above, lions are quite social. Lions live in either a pride or in pairs. A pride is a female led social unit consisting of female relatives and their offspring, these females are highly aggressive towards females from another "family" joining the pride. When male lions are excluded from the pride around age 2, upon which these males will become "nomads" and may roam in pairs, usually seeking another unrelated pride. Female lions tend to be more effective hunters, while male lions exist to provide protection for the pride and their offspring. I'm sure these lions would take great solace in knowing that they no longer have to follow "gender norms" since society created them.
|
|
zeowik
N3
Posts: 292 Likes: 595
inherit
3340
0
595
zeowik
292
February 2017
zeowik
|
Post by zeowik on Mar 14, 2017 3:26:49 GMT
Really it's down to arguing semantics. Technically even species are social constructs. The reality is far more complex considering we share far more in common with all other life on this planet than how we are different. Gender simply is. Chasing a notion that it could not exist is unrealistic. It also implies there is something wrong with the concept of gender existing.
Zootopia is such a great movie, because its main theme really can be applied here. Stereotypes exist and sometimes they are true. That doesn't mean they are intrinsically bad or can't be funny. It's only when things are taken to the point of prejudice and bigotry that it's a problem. Simply acknowledging there are differences isn't a problem on its own. Providing say girly and boyish Happy Meals on its own isn't a problem; ridiculing a child for choosing the 'wrong' one is, etc. For that matter ridiculing a child for being stereotypically girlish or boyish would be just as bad.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
244
0
Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,065
Arijon van Goyen
10,446
August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
|
Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 14, 2017 3:47:48 GMT
You already have a transgender companion in ME3
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
244
0
Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,065
Arijon van Goyen
10,446
August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
|
Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 14, 2017 3:50:55 GMT
Really it's down to arguing semantics. Technically even species are social constructs. NO. Caracal: Serval:
|
|
Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 3:53:03 GMT
I can see how gender roles and gender expression are constructs of society. But gender identity? I'm not convinced. There is strong evidence to suggest that testosterone and estrogen play a role in human behavior and brain chemistry. A trans person with gender dysphoria is not "a-ok" if they just appear as the opposite sex. In order for the dysphoria to lessen to any considerable degree, hormone therapy is necessary. This, to me, suggests that there is a biological component to it, not just a societal one.
|
|
Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 3:54:41 GMT
Really it's down to arguing semantics. Technically even species are social constructs. NO. Caracal: Serval: I'm thinking zeowik meant race, not species.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
244
0
Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,065
Arijon van Goyen
10,446
August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
|
Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 14, 2017 3:59:31 GMT
And I used a bad example... Those two wild cats are so close like modern humans to Neanderthals.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
81
0
12,173
ToLazy4Name
4,618
August 2016
tolazy4name
|
Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 14, 2017 3:59:45 GMT
A trans person with gender dysphoria is not "a-ok" if they just appear as the opposite sex. Considering the suicide rate for transgender people is ridiculously high and remains the same regardless of whether or not they've "transitioned" i'm inclined to agree.
|
|
inherit
The Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist
714
0
Aug 13, 2016 22:27:41 GMT
3,555
Lorn
2,190
August 2016
lorn
|
Post by Lorn on Mar 14, 2017 4:03:51 GMT
NO. Caracal: Serval:
I'm thinking zeowik meant race, not species. This provides another conundrum. A race and a species are the same thing. Race is just another word for subspecies, while species is the group as a whole/.
|
|
zeowik
N3
Posts: 292 Likes: 595
inherit
3340
0
595
zeowik
292
February 2017
zeowik
|
Post by zeowik on Mar 14, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
And I used a bad example... Those two wild cats are so close like modern humans to Neanderthals. You chose a good example to show what I was saying. At some point you have to draw the line where it's a different species, and I used to think it was simple as saying the offspring need to be able to reproduce but that is not the case because the offspring of some mixed-species animals on Earth can in fact reproduce. My point wasn't that there isn't any difference, but instead that the hard defined categories are social constructs.
|
|
Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 4:29:46 GMT
A trans person with gender dysphoria is not "a-ok" if they just appear as the opposite sex. Considering the suicide rate for transgender people is ridiculously high and remains the same regardless of whether or not they've "transitioned" i'm inclined to agree. That, I think, has a lot more to do with environmental factors than with the actual dysphoria itself. Trans folks who have a good support system in friends and family (especially family) are less likely to commit suicide, provided that they are otherwise also doing everything else they can to lessen their dysphoria.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
81
0
12,173
ToLazy4Name
4,618
August 2016
tolazy4name
|
Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 14, 2017 4:47:06 GMT
Bud, I think that applies to everyone.
|
|
inherit
The Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist
714
0
Aug 13, 2016 22:27:41 GMT
3,555
Lorn
2,190
August 2016
lorn
|
Post by Lorn on Mar 14, 2017 4:52:38 GMT
Bud, I think that applies to everyone. It really does.
|
|
Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 5:04:56 GMT
Bud, I think that applies to everyone. This is true and that's the point. The high suicide rate among trans folk has little to do with gender dysphoria itself and everything to do with lack of support. Just like anyone else. Are we supposed to be disagreeing? It doesn't seem like we are. Unless I've misread what you were trying to say.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
81
0
12,173
ToLazy4Name
4,618
August 2016
tolazy4name
|
Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 14, 2017 5:29:54 GMT
Bud, I think that applies to everyone. (1) The high suicide rate among trans folk has little to do with gender dysphoria itself and everything to do with lack of support. Just like anyone else. (2) Are we supposed to be disagreeing? It doesn't seem like we are. Unless I've misread what you were trying to say. (1) That assumes that most people have a good support group, which I personally don't think is the case really but i'm in no position to truly give a statement on this. Maybe you're right. (2) No, we're in agreement: women got sum tiddie and men are ugly, and so gender is or isn't a social construct or something and off themselves alot.
|
|
Gaston
N3
Uncucked Eurocuck
The Heretic of Time
Posts: 368 Likes: 721
inherit
Uncucked Eurocuck
1289
0
721
Gaston
The Heretic of Time
368
Aug 27, 2016 17:11:52 GMT
August 2016
thehereticoftime
|
Post by Gaston on Mar 14, 2017 7:03:43 GMT
yo girls got tiddies and that's noticeably different from what i've got False. You have tiddies too. Don't deny it you fat volus fuck.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
81
0
12,173
ToLazy4Name
4,618
August 2016
tolazy4name
|
Post by ToLazy4Name on Mar 14, 2017 7:28:08 GMT
yo girls got tiddies and that's noticeably different from what i've got False. You have tiddies too. Don't deny it you fat volus fuck. the only thing fat about me is my MASSIVE BEAR COCK
|
|
kaind
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
inherit
2955
0
Oct 10, 2017 22:21:08 GMT
511
kaind
605
Jan 24, 2017 18:55:50 GMT
January 2017
kaind
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by kaind on Mar 14, 2017 8:12:59 GMT
No, it is your case that is faulty. Not only do you believe that gender is a social construct, but you believe that the faults with the case of Bruce/Brenda/David Reimer is in any way beneficial to your argument. If gender was indeed a "social construct" then Brenda Reimer would NOT have acted like a young boy. In fact, Brenda Reimer would have acted EXACTLY as Dr. Money said she did in his paper, Brenda Reimer would have remained Brenda and not decided to "transition" to a boy. Money's paper has gone on to influence feminism and "gender theory" for decades. The fact that you're arguing against something that supposedly proves your beliefs is just icing on the cake! Really? There are no differences between the genders? Well, I suppose that's a position one could take if they believed that gender was a social construct, however it (shockingly) ignores the scientific evidence that shows other wise. Specifically, the way pathways are formed in the brain, which hormones the body produces, etc: www.webmd.com/brain/features/how-male-female-brains-differ#1While I generally loathe Psychology Today, I am going to link one of their articles, specifically: Brain Differences Between Genders
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-gendersBrenda Reimer did NOT act like a young boy since the only way to act as a young boy is to have a penis ( as in having a penis would be said act ). There is no such thing as a ''boy'' behavior. It is perfectly normal for girls to do everything that Brenda Reimer felt like doing. I already said what I believe about the differences. People act differently depending on their neurological balance, and some things are more common in one sex over the other, however it is not always the case, and even on average there in only about 10-15% difference, which is not enough to tailor the whole system around it. Even your article constantly says ''often'' because it's not always the case. We are talking about chemicals here, and the chemical balance between the individuals of the same sex is HUGE, not just between the sexes.
|
|
kaind
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
inherit
2955
0
Oct 10, 2017 22:21:08 GMT
511
kaind
605
Jan 24, 2017 18:55:50 GMT
January 2017
kaind
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by kaind on Mar 14, 2017 8:19:09 GMT
I already answered this in this thread. Just because gender is a concept created by society doesn't mean that it is not a thing. Yes, gender was created by society, but it exists, it is real, and it plays a big role in our lives. When it stops being a thing, there will be no gender dysphoria. Oh this is grand, first you argue that gender isn't real and then you argue that it is real. Not only is it real, but it PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN OUR LIVES! It's almost as if you're expressing a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. Another nail in the coffin of the faulty belief that "gender is a social construct" is by examining the behavior of the other creatures that we share this planet with. First we shall take a look at the arachnids, specifically the Latrodectus (the Widow spider species). Male latrodectus will select their mates by choosing ones that have already eaten, while females will attempt to eat the males after sex (provided the male spider is unable to escape). In this case, the female spiders devouring the male spiders would be a gender norm. For the next and final case we shall observe the differences of behavior in panthera leo (lions). In comparison to the arachnids above, lions are quite social. Lions live in either a pride or in pairs. A pride is a female led social unit consisting of female relatives and their offspring, these females are highly aggressive towards females from another "family" joining the pride. When male lions are excluded from the pride around age 2, upon which these males will become "nomads" and may roam in pairs, usually seeking another unrelated pride. Female lions tend to be more effective hunters, while male lions exist to provide protection for the pride and their offspring. I'm sure these lions would take great solace in knowing that they no longer have to follow "gender norms" since society created them. Look, I like females with smooth legs. Rationally I understand that it is not right, because hairy legs are natural and normal, however I have been thoroughly conditioned to find shaved legs attractive, and at this point it would take quite a lot of psychological effort to change if it is at all possible. Society created this standard of beauty, but it is real and I feel it and in every day life many girls don't feel good looking unless they have smooth legs. If people lived by instincts like animals and didn't have such a large degree of freedom over how they want to develop your argument would hold more weight. You really underestimate the power of nurture. Let's look at the most basic thing: sex, and let's look at the fetishes. People conditioned their minds to have sexual reaction to in-animate things for example high-heels. People can get off from sucking on a high-heel. That is not a person, that does not lead to reproduction, yet the brain has a response as if it does. There is just no point in bringing up nature at all at this point. Humans have defeated the most basic instincts of "survive" and "multiply" and would rather live for entertainment, die for ideas and a quite substancial percentage don't want to procreate at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
871
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 14:18:01 GMT
I already answered this in this thread. Just because gender is a concept created by society doesn't mean that it is not a thing. Yes, gender was created by society, but it exists, it is real, and it plays a big role in our lives. When it stops being a thing, there will be no gender dysphoria. Oh this is grand, first you argue that gender isn't real and then you argue that it is real. Not only is it real, but it PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN OUR LIVES! It's almost as if you're expressing a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. Another nail in the coffin of the faulty belief that "gender is a social construct" is by examining the behavior of the other creatures that we share this planet with. First we shall take a look at the arachnids, specifically the Latrodectus (the Widow spider species). Male latrodectus will select their mates by choosing ones that have already eaten, while females will attempt to eat the males after sex (provided the male spider is unable to escape). In this case, the female spiders devouring the male spiders would be a gender norm. For the next and final case we shall observe the differences of behavior in panthera leo (lions). In comparison to the arachnids above, lions are quite social. Lions live in either a pride or in pairs. A pride is a female led social unit consisting of female relatives and their offspring, these females are highly aggressive towards females from another "family" joining the pride. When male lions are excluded from the pride around age 2, upon which these males will become "nomads" and may roam in pairs, usually seeking another unrelated pride. Female lions tend to be more effective hunters, while male lions exist to provide protection for the pride and their offspring. I'm sure these lions would take great solace in knowing that they no longer have to follow "gender norms" since society created them. They're parroting post modernist deconstruction theory espoused by Jaques Derrida, but the vast majority of these people are either too ill read or ignorant to understand that this is where their dogma comes from, so they just regurgitate the party line with no concept of what the fuck they're talking about. Funnily enough a theory based on the pathological tendencies of Derrida is completely deranged and frankly nihilistic.
|
|
Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
inherit
2655
0
Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
Elsariel
Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elsariel on Mar 14, 2017 15:41:09 GMT
I don't know how anyone can, in full confidence, say that in a society that does not have any gender roles or gender expression, where males and females are allowed to express themselves however they wish without judgment, that there will be no such thing as gender dysphoria and gender identity. There has been no real case study to suggest that will be the case. There has been no human society in history where gender roles were not a thing (as far as I know) so we can't possibly know that gender dysphoria would not exist in such a society. It would only be speculation, at best, not incontrovertible truth.
I speculate that in such a society, there still will be gender dysphoria. This is because there is a known biological and neurological difference between the sexes. Women will still be more inclined to be caregivers and men will still be more inclined to be caretakers on average. There will, of course, be men and women who don't fit in those boxes and do their own thing and that'll be just fine, but enough of the population will be dimorphic so there will still be a distinction between the two sexes. Thus, I believe there will still be people who transition because they will still have that sensation that their genitals do not match their internal map of what they should look like. Kind of like how people can have phantom pain after losing a limb. There is an internal map of one's self and if that internal map is not congruent to what you are biologically, there will be some sense of dysphoria.
But again, that is just my speculation. I'm not spouting this as fact. My personal opinion is that humanity will never be free of gender dimorphism, and thus, gender identity. What we can be free of is the expectation that your sex determines your gender role and gender expression in society.
Circling this back around to the topic at hand, I don't think the Asari could ever be transgendered in the literal sense of the word since they are agendered (or monogendered...). What I think, at most, we'd see is an Asari exhibiting more masculine characteristics. Such an Asari may decide to get surgeries in an attempt to appear male to dimorphic species. I just don't see why any of them would care to do it. Though, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a character try it. Would certainly be interesting.
|
|