I want a transgender Asari charcter.

Gaston
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 3:29:26 GMT via mobile crusty, Lorn, and 1 more like this

Post by Gaston on Mar 15, 2017 3:29:26 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 2:07:51 GMT kaind said:

Mar 15, 2017 1:57:24 GMT crusty said:

"Antonio Guillamon‘s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says."

Ok so by looking at the MRI scans you can state with 100% certainty whether the scan belongs to a male or a female, and if the scan of a male belongs to a female body and vice verse then that person 100% has a gender dysphoria. Is this correct?

Mar 15, 2017 1:57:24 GMT crusty said:

So this really boils down to:

People are not born with a gender so the Right button. Unless The MRI thing is correct, then I will take everything back.

The MRI thing is correct. Male brains are wired differently from female brains.

Also, if gender is a social construct, why does gender dysphoria exist? Why do transgenders not just choose to be the gender that matches what is between their legs? Wouldn't that be much simpler than undergoing hormone therapy and gender reasignment surgery?

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 3:41:03 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 3:41:03 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 3:29:26 GMT Gaston said:

The MRI thing is correct. Male brains are wired differently from female brains.

Also, if gender is a social construct, why does gender dysphoria exist? Why do transgenders not just choose to be the gender that matches what is between their legs? Wouldn't that be much simpler than undergoing hormone therapy and gender reasignment surgery?

Show me the evidence for MRI being able to determine ones sex and this conversation will be over.

You don't choose the gender, your preferred behavior either fits with society expectations or it doesn't.

crusty
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 3:55:08 GMT via mobile Lorn likes this

Post by crusty on Mar 15, 2017 3:55:08 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 2:07:51 GMT kaind said:

Mar 15, 2017 1:57:24 GMT crusty said:

"Antonio Guillamon‘s team at the National University of Distance Education in Madrid, Spain, think they have found a better way to spot a transsexual brain. In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who’d had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). “It’s the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised,” Guillamon says."

Ok so by looking at the MRI scans you can state with 100% certainty whether the scan belongs to a male or a female, and if the scan of a male belongs to a female body and vice verse then that person 100% has a gender dysphoria. Is this correct?

Mar 15, 2017 1:57:24 GMT crusty said:

So this really boils down to:

People are not born with a gender so the Right button. Unless The MRI thing is correct, then I will take everything back.

I am not suggesting that you can look at a brain scan and know someone's gender 100%, I am saying that it is proven there is a clear biological element to how transgender people identify as one gender or the other based on the make up of the brains and the differences noted between female brains and male brains.

Gender is not a societal construct. Gender norms and roles yes, they are impacted greatly by society. A combination of physiology, society and evolution. The biological element is still the biggest contributing factor, but societal influence is there too. But gender as a whole? No.

There are two genders, male and female. Sometimes, a person will suffer from a medical condition called gender dysphoria and identify as the opposite gender to what they were born as. Their brain scan will support their claims of dysphoria as it is proven that transgendered brains are wired differently to ordinary male and female brains, taking on the characteristics of the gender they identify as.

Anything more than that is just the decadent navel gazing of first world post modernism.

Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 3:56:20 GMT by crusty

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 4:07:11 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 4:07:11 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 3:55:08 GMT crusty said:

I am not suggesting that you can look at a brain scan and know someone's gender 100%.

This just shuts down all your further arguments.

crusty N3 Righteous Paragon of Truth and Justice Posts: 776 Likes: 3,195 crusty inherit Righteous Paragon of Truth and Justice 77 0 Sept 30, 2016 7:28:44 GMT 3,195 crusty 776 N3 Aug 1, 2016 11:33:26 GMT August 2016 crusty	I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 4:17:20 GMT via mobile Lorn, Gaston, and 1 more like this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by crusty on Mar 15, 2017 4:17:20 GMT I appreciate you vocalising how your cognitive dissonance springs into action. :^ )

differentreasons N1 Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem XBL Gamertag: Neptin PSN: differentreasons Posts: 16 Likes: 22 differentreasons inherit Male 4073 0 Feb 20, 2019 12:21:17 GMT 22 differentreasons 16 N1 Mar 3, 2017 11:58:43 GMT March 2017 neptin Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem Neptin differentreasons	I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 10:05:36 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by differentreasons on Mar 15, 2017 10:05:36 GMT I support this message.

Lorn
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 14:56:41 GMT via mobile

Post by Lorn on Mar 15, 2017 14:56:41 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 4:07:11 GMT kaind said:

Mar 15, 2017 3:55:08 GMT crusty said:

I am not suggesting that you can look at a brain scan and know someone's gender 100%.

This just shuts down all your further arguments.

Oh look, it also shuts down yours!

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 15:03:48 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 15:03:48 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 14:56:41 GMT Lorn said:

Mar 15, 2017 4:07:11 GMT kaind said:

This just shuts down all your further arguments.

Oh look, it also shuts down yours!

I called you out already once asking you to show me where I contradict myself and you haven't replied to that.

Show me how this shuts down my argument.

Lorn
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 16:10:43 GMT via mobile

Post by Lorn on Mar 15, 2017 16:10:43 GMT

Mar 14, 2017 8:12:59 GMT kaind said:

Mar 14, 2017 2:54:52 GMT Lorn said:

SPOILER: Click to show

No, it is your case that is faulty. Not only do you believe that gender is a social construct, but you believe that the faults with the case of Bruce/Brenda/David Reimer is in any way beneficial to your argument.

If gender was indeed a "social construct" then Brenda Reimer would NOT have acted like a young boy. In fact, Brenda Reimer would have acted EXACTLY as Dr. Money said she did in his paper, Brenda Reimer would have remained Brenda and not decided to "transition" to a boy. Money's paper has gone on to influence feminism and "gender theory" for decades. The fact that you're arguing against something that supposedly proves your beliefs is just icing on the cake!

Really? There are no differences between the genders? Well, I suppose that's a position one could take if they believed that gender was a social construct, however it (shockingly) ignores the scientific evidence that shows other wise. Specifically, the way pathways are formed in the brain, which hormones the body produces, etc:

www.webmd.com/brain/features/how-male-female-brains-differ#1

While I generally loathe Psychology Today, I am going to link one of their articles, specifically:

Brain Differences Between Genders

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

Brenda Reimer did NOT act like a young boy since the only way to act as a young boy is to have a penis ( as in having a penis would be said act ). There is no such thing as a ''boy'' behavior.

Since you keep insisting on having someone point out your contradictions I have chosen the above post.

You state that there is no such thing as "boy behavior", however you preceded that statement that the only way for "boy behavior" to exist is by possessing a penis. Which in turn means that all male to female transgenders are still men if they keep their penis. You claim to support transgender people, but you have just used the same argument that was usedone to support the dreaded bathroom ban!

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 16:21:03 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 16:21:03 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 16:10:43 GMT Lorn said:

Mar 14, 2017 8:12:59 GMT kaind said:

Brenda Reimer did NOT act like a young boy since the only way to act as a young boy is to have a penis ( as in having a penis would be said act ). There is no such thing as a ''boy'' behavior.

Since you keep insisting on having someone point out your contradictions I have chosen the above post.

You state that there is no such thing as "boy behavior", however you preceded that statement that the only way for "boy behavior" to exist is by possessing a penis. Which in turn means that all male to female transgenders are still men if they keep their penis. You claim to support transgender people, but you have just used the same argument that was usedone to support the dreaded bathroom ban!

Ohlol.. There is no such thing as boy behavior, I did not say that by having a penis it suddenly appears, I jokingly said that having a penis would in and of itself be an act of boy behavior, the only act at that, but obviously having a penis is not really an act. Read the bold part.

I have nothing against transgender people, but I do not make a point of supporting them, I understand that they are struggling but at the same time I do not support gender, so I will not support movements that promote gender. When I use pronouns or expect someone to use a particular bathroom I tie it to their biological sex not gender. Honestly though public bathrooms are outdated, I don't enjoy going to a bathroom full of random people regardless of their sex.

Next.

Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 16:25:37 GMT by kaind

Gaston
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 19:00:53 GMT via mobile

Post by Gaston on Mar 15, 2017 19:00:53 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 16:21:03 GMT kaind said:

Mar 15, 2017 16:10:43 GMT Lorn said:

Since you keep insisting on having someone point out your contradictions I have chosen the above post.

You state that there is no such thing as "boy behavior", however you preceded that statement that the only way for "boy behavior" to exist is by possessing a penis. Which in turn means that all male to female transgenders are still men if they keep their penis. You claim to support transgender people, but you have just used the same argument that was usedone to support the dreaded bathroom ban!

Ohlol.. There is no such thing as boy behavior, I did not say that by having a penis it suddenly appears, I jokingly said that having a penis would in and of itself be an act of boy behavior, the only act at that, but obviously having a penis is not really an act. Read the bold part.

I have nothing against transgender people, but I do not make a point of supporting them, I understand that they are struggling but at the same time I do not support gender, so I will not support movements that promote gender. When I use pronouns or expect someone to use a particular bathroom I tie it to their biological sex not gender. Honestly though public bathrooms are outdated, I don't enjoy going to a bathroom full of random people regardless of their sex.

Next.

In other words, you do not support reality

K.

Next.

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 19:11:00 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 19:11:00 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 19:00:53 GMT Gaston said:

In other words, you do not support reality

That's exactly what I do support.

Gaston
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 19:16:33 GMT via mobile

Post by Gaston on Mar 15, 2017 19:16:33 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 19:11:00 GMT kaind said:

Mar 15, 2017 19:00:53 GMT Gaston said:

In other words, you do not support reality

That's exactly what I do support.

That's what everyone says. Even flat-earthers think they support reality.

kaind
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 19:22:26 GMT

Post by kaind on Mar 15, 2017 19:22:26 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 19:16:33 GMT Gaston said:

Mar 15, 2017 19:11:00 GMT kaind said:

That's exactly what I do support.

That's what everyone says. Even flat-earthers think they support reality.

So far all I've heard in this thread is that males and females have different brains, yet for some reason you can't tell who the brain belongs to from the scan that they use as evidence.

crusty
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 15, 2017 22:36:47 GMT via mobile Lorn, Gaston, and 2 more like this

Post by crusty on Mar 15, 2017 22:36:47 GMT

Because there are outliers?

What we know is that on average, men's brains and women's brains display certain characteristics that are small but noticeable. Transgender people share more characteristics with the gender of the brain they identify with, more than the gender that they're born with would share.

Nobody is making the claim that brain scan determines gender, but it proves there is a definitive link between biology and gender. If it wasn't obvious enough when trans people require hormone treatments to feel like the gender they identify as. Which puts to rest your nonsense about gender being just a social construct. Gender is deeply rooted in biology and physiology, that's all there is to it.

Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 22:40:53 GMT by crusty

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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 0:42:17 GMT

Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 0:42:17 GMT

Mar 8, 2017 10:59:26 GMT ryerye17 said:

So less transgendered....more trans-species? An Asari who fancies herself a Krogan?

Basically this. Asari don't have a gender, so they can't really be the wrong one.

But if this was the case, why make them Asari at all? Could do it with any species for the same effect.

Would be interesting to see, though I imagine someone might take it the wrong way. "BioWare thinks trans people are alien" is the Buzzfeed article I'm seeing. Yeesh. With that being the case, it would most certainly just be a human character.

But that would defeat the whole purpose of your idea.

amehzing
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 1:15:38 GMT via mobile Wynne likes this

Post by amehzing on Mar 16, 2017 1:15:38 GMT

Krem broke the lore almost. Quanari didn't like female warriors but acceoted someone who is biologically female.

Asari don't even have words for male or female. They just exist. A trans asari would break the lore again.

If there is going to be a trans character it should be someone who isn't going to break lore.
Maybe a salarian who is struggling because they were assigned to the military but salarian females aren't allowed to fight.

ames4u
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 2:12:22 GMT BamBam the Destroyer likes this

Post by ames4u on Mar 16, 2017 2:12:22 GMT

Aren't they mono-gendered? It's entirely possible that it could be done, but I thought their appearance hinged
largely on the perception of the individual looking at them? How would they go about appearing as male?

Edit: Well 'eff me, this turned into one hell of a sh*tshow fairly quickly. Should've known better than to
think that this would be discussed with any degree of civility without it descending into a pissing match.

Last Edit: Mar 16, 2017 2:29:35 GMT by ames4u

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Elsariel
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 5:30:38 GMT via mobile opuspace and Wynne like this

Post by Elsariel on Mar 16, 2017 5:30:38 GMT

Mar 16, 2017 2:12:22 GMT ames4u said:

Aren't they mono-gendered? It's entirely possible that it could be done, but I thought their appearance hinged
largely on the perception of the individual looking at them? How would they go about appearing as male?

Something of their appearance must be static because they aren't the epitome of attractiveness for everyone. Straight human females are unlikely to go for them because they look female. So... if an Asari wanted to attract a straight female (or a gay male), maybe they'd try to look more like a male human? Not sure how that would work though. Besides major surgery.

ames4u
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 15:28:34 GMT Elsariel and Wynne like this

Post by ames4u on Mar 16, 2017 15:28:34 GMT

Mar 16, 2017 5:30:38 GMT Elsariel said:

Mar 16, 2017 2:12:22 GMT ames4u said:

SPOILER: Click to show

Aren't they mono-gendered? It's entirely possible that it could be done, but I thought their appearance hinged
largely on the perception of the individual looking at them? How would they go about appearing as male?

Something of their appearance must be static because they aren't the epitome of attractiveness for everyone. Straight human females are unlikely to go for them because they look female. So... if an Asari wanted to attract a straight female (or a gay male), maybe they'd try to look more like a male human? Not sure how that would work though. Besides major surgery.

That's pretty much the grey area. Without knowing what Asari really look like it's impossible to say without it being supposition or theory.
There isn't even a reasonable explanation for them to appear as women at all even to other females who aren't attracted to the same gender.
So where does the female shape come from? Is it projected by the Asari or is it the perception of the individual? Mixture of both? Hard to say.

There is nothing quite like watching fans pointing their collective ass skywards and hoping it fills with rainwater.

amehzing
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 17:09:20 GMT via mobile opuspace likes this

Post by amehzing on Mar 16, 2017 17:09:20 GMT

Mar 16, 2017 15:28:34 GMT ames4u said:

Mar 16, 2017 5:30:38 GMT Elsariel said:

Something of their appearance must be static because they aren't the epitome of attractiveness for everyone. Straight human females are unlikely to go for them because they look female. So... if an Asari wanted to attract a straight female (or a gay male), maybe they'd try to look more like a male human? Not sure how that would work though. Besides major surgery.

That's pretty much the grey area. Without knowing what Asari really look like it's impossible to say without it being supposition or theory.
There isn't even a reasonable explanation for them to appear as women at all even to other females who aren't attracted to the same gender.
So where does the female shape come from? Is it projected by the Asari or is it the perception of the individual? Mixture of both? Hard to say.

Asari looom how we see them. MShep and femshep see them the same way. They look the same on videos and their statues, and our woed for them is "she" in the codex.

My problem with them is how they basically just look like blue humans in an otherwise incredibly thought out game. Having aliens that look very similar is fine but shaving a girl's head and painting her blue then saying she is an alien kinda sucks.

duskwanderer
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 22:39:47 GMT

Post by duskwanderer on Mar 16, 2017 22:39:47 GMT

Mar 15, 2017 22:36:47 GMT crusty said:

Because there are outliers?

What we know is that on average, men's brains and women's brains display certain characteristics that are small but noticeable. Transgender people share more characteristics with the gender of the brain they identify with, more than the gender that they're born with would share.

Nobody is making the claim that brain scan determines gender, but it proves there is a definitive link between biology and gender. If it wasn't obvious enough when trans people require hormone treatments to feel like the gender they identify as. Which puts to rest your nonsense about gender being just a social construct. Gender is deeply rooted in biology and physiology, that's all there is to it.

I feel like finally, someone else understands.

It reduces the entire concept to what amounts to what it is: a psychological conundrum. Similar to a malformed thyroid, you can function in normal society, but there is a biological difference. Or, even diabetes, with the body not creating a chemical like it is supposed to.

That means there is no gender. It is merely a brain mutation.

amleth N2 Posts: 231 Likes: 243 amleth inherit Male 2241 0 Dec 16, 2018 22:17:42 GMT 243 amleth 231 N2 Dec 2, 2016 15:04:58 GMT December 2016 amleth	I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 16, 2017 23:10:49 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by amleth on Mar 16, 2017 23:10:49 GMT I vote transgender Asari are represented by dyeing themselves orange

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Astronautic
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I want a transgender Asari charcter. Mar 18, 2017 8:48:39 GMT

Post by Astronautic on Mar 18, 2017 8:48:39 GMT

No.

That'd be like a human running around saying that they're a Drell.

No.

I can live neither with you, nor without you.

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