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Post by sandalisthemaker on Mar 12, 2017 2:14:34 GMT
Some of you may remember a thread by the same name back on the official BSN (which had a pretty good run of nearly 300 pages before BSN was destroyed). I was planning on remaking it here once DA4 was officially announced, since the original thread's purpose was to both express the desire for, and foster the discussion of LGBT companions in the next installment of Dragon Age who fit the Knight in Shining Armor archetype. But due to several requests from some lovely people here, and the green light from Natashina I decided to do it sooner. The thread is here in the ME:A spoilers section because conversation can revolve around both the ME and DA squadmate/companions. Note that despite being in the spoiler section, all ME:A STORY spoilers must be tagged until release since this is a character/romance related topic due to mod request. So please follow that rule. So here we are. Volume 2. Note to newcomers: you will see the acronym "KISA" thrown around frequently here. It simply stands for Knight In Shining Armor, and I believe it was first popularized by @daveliam (thanks dear!) to the point where it was used by people in several unrelated threads, to my delight. So what constitutes a KISA?
A KISA is a lawful good, virtuous, upstanding, protector-type. Someone of noble character, who is chivalrous and kind. Someone who puts others above themselves. The classic KISA is a literal knight, so for Dragon Age, picture a heavily armored warrior with these character traits who fights with sword and shield. The party tank. The ME equivalent could be a Soldier, or Vanguard, or Sentinel. Someone who can wade into the thick of combat. In previous BioWare games, this character archetype has been filled by straight characters. (Think Alistair, Aveline, Cassandra, Cullen, and Blackwall-who despite the truth of his past, lives as a KISA as a way to atone for his mistakes).
By contrast, the non-straight characters tend to be portrayed as morally questionable/ambiguous roguish types (not all of them are of the rogue class, but most are). In DA, think Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, and Sera. They tend to be darker and edgier- outsiders with dark pasts and a penchant for trouble-making. They tend to be 'in it for themselves' first. Note that there is nothing wrong with these types of characters. They can be very lovable and interesting, but this thread's focus is on seeing more variety in the types of LGBT characters in BioWare games.
Basically I do believe that it makes sense for a character who is not straight to be a swoon-worthy, chivalrous, noble, Knight in Shining Armor. There was much discussion regarding Kaidan in the old thread. Many seemed to agree that he is currently the best fit for a Bisexual KISA. Dorian was also frequently brought up as a possible example, but IMO he doesn't quite fit the role for me. ****In regards to ME:A, my prediction is that Cora and/or Liam will best fit this role. Possibly Jaal as well. Due to leaks that we are surely all too familiar with at this moment in time pre-release, it is looking like these three will be heterosexual, continuing the trend.**** Edit Post-Launch: Yep, they're all straight. ****Peebee and Vetra are giving me roguish vibes from what we know about them. Vetra (from leaks) and Peebee (because Asari) are both looking to be bisexual. Again continuing the trend.****
Note that everyone's idea of a KISA can vary, discussion is obviously welcome. BioWare's companions tend to be nuanced enough that they may not fit neatly and completely into any one archetype, but the trends are there, and I'd like to see those trends shaken up a bit.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 12, 2017 2:21:51 GMT
Looks like I get to post in a KISA thread for the first time! Hello! Honestly for me, I don't even necessarily need a female knight in the traditional sense of the word. I just want a soldier/warrior-ish f/f love interest who is on the older side and has a personality other than just being nice/friendly or funny/quirky. I would love it if she were more cynical or more pragmatic or I don't know. Just give me an older, well-written f/f love interest with more of an edge. It'd be ideal if we could have that and also have a KISA as an m/m option. Maybe they could dislike eachother or perhaps be unlikely friends.
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Post by Rouccoco on Mar 12, 2017 2:26:30 GMT
My favourite thread is back!
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sandalisthemaker
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Mar 12, 2017 2:28:34 GMT
Looks like I get to post in a KISA thread for the first time! Hello! Honestly for me, I don't even necessarily need a female knight in the traditional sense of the word. I just want a soldier/warrior-ish f/f love interest who is on the older side and has a personality other than just being nice/friendly or funny/quirky. I would love it if she were more cynical or more pragmatic or I don't know. Just give me an older, well-written f/f love interest with more of an edge. It'd be ideal if we could have that and also have a KISA as an m/m option. Maybe they could dislike eachother or perhaps be unlikely friends. Yep, the character need not be a literal knight. Obviously they won't be in ME, but I'd love to have a male and female character who are not straight that fit the role in regards to their personalities.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 12, 2017 2:28:35 GMT
I've never been in the original thread but this is gonna be fun!!! Bioware take notes plz :sure:
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Post by Dirk on Mar 12, 2017 2:31:43 GMT
How well do you think Liam will fit into the KISA type? He does seem to be a hot head kind of guys during his loyalty mission where he wanted to rescue some people. My favorite personality of a KISA is that they are usually cool and calm and do not get upset or angry easily, unless when they see injustice and then become fierce fighting against it.
Oh man I hope he's bi. Also thanks to sandalisthemaker for this thread. I was mostly lurking on the old one, and it was great.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Mar 12, 2017 2:38:21 GMT
How well do you think Liam will fit into the KISA type? He does seem to be a hot head kind of guys during his loyalty mission where he wanted to rescue some people. My favorite personality of a KISA is that they are usually cool and calm and do not get upset or angry easily, unless when they see injustice and then become fierce fighting against it.
Oh man I hope he's bi. I myself have not seen Liam's loyalty mission. We do know that he was a cop. To me that screams KISA, but we also know that based on the official info we've been given so far, that he may have traits that clash with the classic KISA archetype. My guess is that he leans more towards a KISA than not, but I could be totally wrong.
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Post by hellionrex on Mar 12, 2017 2:55:08 GMT
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 12, 2017 2:55:40 GMT
Honestly I've never understood what all the fuss is about with regards to KISA characters. I certainly don't mind them, but it's not an archetype that ever really stood out to me.
That said, I am interested in learning what it is about these characters that makes all of you so passionate about them.
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Post by hellionrex on Mar 12, 2017 2:55:55 GMT
Never mind. Someone stole my gif.
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Post by Artemis on Mar 12, 2017 2:58:16 GMT
YAY it's back!! I want gay KISA. Both genders
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Post by zaefkol on Mar 12, 2017 3:02:42 GMT
Looks like I get to post in a KISA thread for the first time! Hello! Honestly for me, I don't even necessarily need a female knight in the traditional sense of the word. I just want a soldier/warrior-ish f/f love interest who is on the older side and has a personality other than just being nice/friendly or funny/quirky. I would love it if she were more cynical or more pragmatic or I don't know. Just give me an older, well-written f/f love interest with more of an edge. It'd be ideal if we could have that and also have a KISA as an m/m option. Maybe they could dislike eachother or perhaps be unlikely friends. Yep, the character need not be a literal knight. Obviously they won't be in ME, but I'd love to have a male and female character who are not straight that fit the role in regards to their personalities. Maybe not in MEA, but I could throw out a scenario for it to happen in MEA2...
We come across a planet with medieval era technology for some plot reason or another, and one of the people we get to interact with and then maybe later recruit ends up being an alien knight from the planet's indigenous species.
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Post by Artemis on Mar 12, 2017 3:06:18 GMT
IMO the potential KISA candidates for MEA are Cora and Jaal. In previous games I'd say it was Garrus and... no female equivalent because ME seems afraid of older bad ass women.
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Post by Vy on Mar 12, 2017 3:07:58 GMT
Looking forward to some interesting discussion here! Personal story: I'm a (mostly gay) bisexual guy who grew up in a homophobic religious environment, which messed me up pretty badly psychologically. Kaidan being a tough, thoughtful, and unambiguously good bisexual KISA was a big deal to me when I was playing ME3, because it sent a much needed message saying "No, you aren't broken/depraved/perverted/less valuable because of your sexuality," when it felt like just about everyone around me was saying otherwise. Anyway, regarding Andromeda: Liam's looking like the closest fit on the m/m side based on the information that we have, though he seems a lot more hotheaded than your typical KISA (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - I'm a Garrus fanboy, after all). Jaal might be, but I honestly don't know enough about his character yet to be able to make any judgments. And, of course, recent leaks indicate that both of them will be straight, so... I also seem to recall hearing somewhere that Reyes is one of the Initiative's security officers, so he might qualify despite not being a squadmate.
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Post by barderic on Mar 12, 2017 3:11:07 GMT
IMO the potential KISA candidates for MEA are Cora and Jaal. In previous games I'd say it was Garrus and... no female equivalent because ME seems afraid of older bad ass women. In some ways Samara could qualify. She does say that the closest human equivalent to a justicar would be a samurai or a knight errant.
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Post by Artemis on Mar 12, 2017 3:12:41 GMT
IMO the potential KISA candidates for MEA are Cora and Jaal. In previous games I'd say it was Garrus and... no female equivalent because ME seems afraid of older bad ass women. In some ways Samara could qualify. She does say that the closest human equivalent to a justicar would be a samurai or a knight errant. True, she does. But what I got mostly from Samara was more of a warrior monk. Not so much a noble swordswoman, but a spiritual warrior of sorts.
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Post by Artemis on Mar 12, 2017 3:14:24 GMT
Looking forward to some interesting discussion here! Personal story: I'm a (mostly gay) bisexual guy who grew up in a homophobic religious environment, which messed me up pretty badly psychologically. Kaidan being a tough, thoughtful, and unambiguously good bisexual KISA was a big deal to me when I was playing ME3, because it sent a much needed message saying "No, you aren't broken/depraved/perverted/less valuable because of your sexuality," when it felt like just about everyone around me was saying otherwise. Anyway, regarding Andromeda: Liam's looking like the closest fit on the m/m side based on the information that we have, though he seems a lot more hotheaded than your typical KISA (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - I'm a Garrus fanboy, after all). Jaal might be, but I honestly don't know enough about his character yet to be able to make any judgments. And, of course, recent leaks indicate that both of them will be straight, so... I also seem to recall hearing somewhere somewhere that Reyes is one of the Initiative's security officers, so he might qualify despite not being a squadmate. I'm somehow embarrassed to admit how curious I am about Reyes?? Like we literally know nothing. But his voice sounds awesome, and if he's some kind of security personnel... hello, cop? Detective? That's pretty smexy, and isn't the good cop the modern day equivalent of the knight?
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Post by Vy on Mar 12, 2017 3:24:26 GMT
I'm somehow embarrassed to admit how curious I am about Reyes?? Like we literally know nothing. But his voice sounds awesome, and if he's some kind of security personnel... hello, cop? Detective? That's pretty smexy, and isn't the good cop the modern day equivalent of the knight? I'm inclined to say he's a detective, since the few seconds we heard Sara talking to him in the Game Awards gameplay footage he was essentially serving as "mission control" while she scanned a murder scene for evidence. I'm curious too - his voice is lovely, and you're right; a good cop helping to hunt down bad guys sounds like the epitome of a modern KISA.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Mar 12, 2017 3:25:51 GMT
Honestly I've never understood what all the fuss is about with regards to KISA characters. I certainly don't mind them, but it's not an archetype that ever really stood out to me. That said, I am interested in learning what it is about these characters that makes all of you so passionate about them. For me, I like to play as the morally gray roguish type of character. I would just love to have a KISA M/M squadmate/companion LI to complement my PC. Someone who can serve as my PC's moral compass so to speak. I'd love a dynamic like that.
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Post by DalyaTheTurtle on Mar 12, 2017 3:26:09 GMT
Hooray for new(old) threads! I remember lurking in this thread on the old bsn good to have it back. Anyway I wonder if Cora actually would fit into the KISA mold she kind of seems like a Miranda type who's there to get the job done no matter what the cost. Either way I hope she will be a f/f romance, but I don't really like to get my hopes up when it seems like things aren't certain to go my way. I would like it if Jaal turned out to be one for male Ryder's even though I haven't got an interest in romancing him myself.
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Post by aionis on Mar 12, 2017 3:33:33 GMT
Hey guys/girls! Am here My names Aionis but you can call me Aion. Gay male Sometimes angry; sometimes too happy Anyways...so with Andromeda my mood after the Liam leaks went from furious to okay to optimistic. Gil is cute Hopefully Reyes will be available to us ALSO watching the twitch stream I hope this little flirting can go places with this guy since I find him to be adorable: As for aliens, I know a lot of ppl want Jaal. But I want a Kett romance lol
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Post by Natashina on Mar 12, 2017 3:38:43 GMT
aionisTINA!!!! I'll be back later to throw in my thoughts about the topic.
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Post by carcinnamon on Mar 12, 2017 3:40:40 GMT
Ayyy, I remember this thread from the old BSN! Nice to see it's found its way here at last! From the descriptions we've gotten about Jaal, I would say he's a more likely candidate than Liam for the KISA-type on our ME:A squad. Which is why I'm pretty much willing to beg for him to be bisexual. BioWare, I think, has this odd mindset of what makes a character "fit" a particular sexuality. An odd way to think about it, considering I've met plenty of people whose orientations absolutely do not match stereotypical queer/straight behavior, professions, or whatever it is that the developers are convinced makes a character "feel" like they're (insert orientation here). I've been told plenty times that I don't seem asexual due to my love of innuendos and the way I dress, which is frankly odd - how does one extrapolate my attraction or lack thereof to people on superficial data? In the end, I think this sort of loans itself to staling archetypes that BioWare repeats quite often with its character romances. The Cullen and Alistair types always go to straight women, because...I don't know? I'm not sure exactly why BioWare is convinced gay men wouldn't want to experience those sorts of love stories. Do the devs think that gay men wouldn't want to romance someone that would sweep them off their feet and give them roses, shower them in compliments? I think everyone likes to feel a little special in someone else's eyes! And that's not even getting into the options for bi/lesbian women (although I will say, Leliana is pretty rad, and I had zero complaints on that front. Unlike Zevran, at least she doesn't consistently bring up her attraction to the opposite sex while I'm trying to chat her up ). So I really hope that we can one day get the KISA that everyone deserves to experience, irrespective of orientation! Also I know this is the "Gay Knight in Shining Armor" thread, but I'd like to put my vote out there for a tough-as-nails asari commando LI in a future ME game. That would be rad as hell, and it'd be cool to have an ice queen trope for the token asari squaddie for once. Not that I have anything against Liara or Peebee per se, but I personally loved Samara the most out of all the asari companions, and would love one that's more experienced and level-headed like she was. Calm, cool and collected is my favorite for ladies. Especially if they're morally upstanding and a bit uncompromising in that regard. Really looking forward to seeing the discussions in here!
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Post by Mihura on Mar 12, 2017 3:44:06 GMT
Here is my KISA in two gifs. I have a feeling next Dragon Age game is a good candidate for this archetype, I am crossing my fingers!
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Post by Gilsa on Mar 12, 2017 3:45:21 GMT
I remember the previous thread. Didn't participate in it because I didn't have anything to contribute, but I did return to read every now and then. It was an eye-opener because I hadn't connected the dots on the overall romance trends until it was spelled out like that. Now I find myself watching for that first gay KISA in these games because I understand what a big deal it is and how important it is.
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