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Post by Catilina on Mar 27, 2017 3:53:24 GMT
I'm with you, but I want to see a gay KISA (Cullen type, classic, who always was straight), because of that break the stereotype. My KISA is a protector, neutral good, who shit on the law, if the law is wrong, and serve the justice. But each of us is different. This is why I wrote, that an Andrastian Templar is dark. Not necessarily evil or something, Thrask for example, or Malcolm Hawke's friend a good templar. (Cullen later let Hawke and Anders go, and leave the order, this is a very good point...) I mean, if the stereotype is that gays can't be raging bigots, then that's a cross I'm willing to bear. lol I can deal with generally good KISA charactes, though. If Kaidan and Jaal are KISA, then those are characters I don't have any problems with. It's just when they tie into prejudices, generally in support of the majority/ruling body, that I nope out of there. Most people lump Cullen and Alistair into one type, but actually they're way different to me. I'm good with Alistair, but Cullen is a no, for me. Alistair was pretty chill about mages and elves from the start. He never really liked the Chantry, didn't want to be a Templar. He fits the Grey Warden attitude really well. He's very live and let live, unless you're doing something overtly douchey. Maybe Cullen gets better in the Inquisition late stages, but he was pretty typical of the Templar mindset. I can't really stop seeing DA2 Cullen. That, and he's more srs and boring than Alistair, imo, but that's a whole different point. Oh, yes, I agree... According to you and me, the Andrastian Templars are dark/raging bigots (haha, I like!), but if you ask people, most of them identify them as KISA. I think. I like Cullen in the Inquisition. I like that he would able to crossing his own shadow. In DA2 he wasn't as raging idiot than Meredith/Alric, but he was morally questionable. Alistair just fine (if the Warden executes Loghain, or let him to do it)... Jaal seems fine KISA (I'm still in the early stages of the game), and Kaidan also.
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Post by wolffie on Mar 28, 2017 16:43:02 GMT
talking about ideal LIs groups for DA4 women: Straight Elf Mage: a dalish elven mage, and possible future keeper for her clan, if she is single she goes back to her clan, if not she stays with the male MC, if the MC is a elven male and they have a romance they can go back to her clan if the player wish, as a special ending. Bisexual Qunari Mage: a tal-vashot, hot-blooded, strong and intimidating she is always in the defensive and is distant in the beggining until you start frienship with her, in the romance, with you she show her more sensible and emotional side, like all qunari she is taller than the other races, she worked with her family as mercenary, so she is more a battlemage than a pure mage, she no received formal mage training just the basics from other mage qunari tal-vashot, she really, really hates the qun, she believes in freedom and liberty, in live her own life under her own terms, something that is totally against the qun philosophy if you support directly or indirectly she would left the group, she also hates the Bisexual Elf Rogue because.... well he is a qunari spy. she doesn't like the circle of magi because they restrict freedom to mages or the tevinter imperium because the slavery, but for her, anything is better than the qun. Bisexual Human Warrior:she beautiful, blonde, with green eyes, she is from one village in anderfels, near tevinter, her parents where plain rural peasants, but she always have bigger dreams than plow land, she always dreamed about the tales of brave warriors, specially the grey wardens, soon started to train to be a soldier, where she showed excellent skills, and soon enough she was commading a little battalion from the inquisition, she have a mage big brother, she shaw with her own eyes how the templars forceful take her brother, she and her family never have any contact with him after that and now she don't know if he is dead or alive, for that reason she is friendly with rebel mages even if she is a faithful andrastian. Bisexual Dwarf Rogue: scout harding, because why the fuck no? i want more of her and i'm sure more people wants harding as a companion and full romance for DA4. Gay Human Rogue: a tevinter rebel who works to liberated slaves from their masters, despite being a rebel she tries to be professional, she have "ice queen vibes" and she thinks the circle of magi, the templars and the common chantry are better than the chantry and the political system from tevinter, she is rather anti-mage thanks to their past masters, their parents where antivan merchants who fall in bankruptcy, their parents had to become slaves to don't die from starvation, with their master they where abused, forced to work during days in various mines until they die, she would die soon enough if is not for the help of some rebels who save her, now like sera, she works for red jenny, unlike sera she take seriously her job, espionage and information. men: Straight Human warrior:he is loyal tevinter warrior, he is loyal to his mage masters and to the tevinter imperium, and he seriously believes mages have the natural right to govern over common humans, for him mages are not a enemy, or someone to fear, just people blessed from andraste, he despite the qun for the many problems they are causing to the tevinter imperium, aside from that, he have sense of humor, is romantic, a little dork, and in his romance he have some special conversations with a female MC if she is mage. Bisexual Elf Rogue: born in the qun by his ex-slaves parents, raised to be a spy like tallis, he is level headed, chill and can be a bro, just like bull, but his loyalty only resides the qun, his only mission is to help the qun and woudl betray and try to kill you in a ambush (similar to zevran or iron bull) if you harm the qun, privately he thinks all countries and cultures in thedas (besides the qunari) are sick and dysfunctional, he thinks freedom is a lie, and have some good arguments about it, in that aspect he is like sten, he is always loyal to the qun, and unlike iron bull he would never left it. you can romance him if you are not a believer in the qun, just don't harm the qun, you can also agreed with him in a lot of matters and join with him to the qun, i think would be great if we have a "qunari ending", i would like to have that with sten in DAO. Bisexual Human Mage: a noble mage from tevinter, he is reformist, and he thinks the tevinter imperium should abolish slavery, have good relationships with other andrastian nations, form a alliance with them against the qunari, between other things, in many ways he is like dorian, less sassy but sexy and charming like him. Gay Dwarf Warrior: the kisa so many people wanted, he is a proud dwarf warrior, rather traditional and not the most intelligent person in your group, with a certain disdain to dwarf merchants, he was born in the surface, but still, he is rather traditional and he believes caste should be reinforce between surface dwarfs, anyway, he can be convinced that castes are stupid, specially by another dwarf. sorry for the bad english, is not my native language.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 6, 2017 17:22:02 GMT
Wouldn't a proper Knight in Shining armour be a proper Knight errant sworn to the traditonal seven knightly virtues Chastity (Castitas) Temperance (Temperantia) Charity (Caritas) Diligence (Industria) Patience (Patientia) Kindness (Benevolentia) Humility (Humilitas)
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Post by Mihura on Apr 16, 2017 15:54:48 GMT
Going to revive this topic to only say that after playing PoI after an year or so, I find that Maneha was actually into women.. huge barbarian raider that flirts with a kinda of KISA character Pallegina, bless you Obsidian!
Also for reference,
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 16, 2017 17:13:41 GMT
As much as I try to embody the KISA (shiiiiiit, I'm straight, so I'm only feeding into the trend! D:), and enjoy the archetype, I always found the roguish characters - such as Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, and Sera - to be more relate-able and real than a KISA. Also, there is typically far more depth to them, and they are usually a lot more selfless and/or caring the more we get to know them. That or, in Isabela and Zevran's case, your character rubs off on them and they grow as a character, while the KISA doesn't have much character growth, by comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a KISA that falls within LGBT, because I agree that it would nice for that to change. Just seems like the original post is making the KISA archetype to be superior to others, or that the roguish archetype is bad, which is the only thing I don't agree with.
Despite Reyes not being a squadmate (#MakeReyesASquadmate), I was surprised by how fleshed out his character is, and I'm happy to see that he is one of the most popular romances within MEA. He may also fall under the roguish archetype trend that this thread discusses, but also proves my previous point of depth in character.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Apr 16, 2017 17:17:56 GMT
As much as I try to embody the KISA (shiiiiiit, I'm straight, so I'm only feeding into the trend! D:), and enjoy the archetype, I always found the roguish characters - such as Leliana, Zevran, Isabela, and Sera - to be more relate-able and real than a KISA. Also, there is typically far more depth to them, and they are usually a lot more selfless and/or caring the more we get to know them. That or, in Isabela's case, your character rubs off on them and they grow as a character, while the KISA doesn't have much character growth, by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a KISA that falls within LGBT, because I agree that it was would nice for that to change. Just seems like the original post is making the KISA archetype to be superior to others, or that the roguish archetype is bad, which is the only thing I don't agree with. Despite Reyes not being a squadmate (#MakeReyesASquadmate), I was surprised by how fleshed out his character is, and I'm happy to see that he is one of the most popular romances within MEA. He may also fall under the roguish archetype trend that this thread discusses, but also proves my previous point of depth in character. No, there is nothing wrong with roguish characters. They can be interesting and compelling (which I said in the OP), I just would like for the achetypes to be switched up from time to time. The closest we've gotten IMO is Kaidan.
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 16, 2017 17:43:17 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a KISA that falls within LGBT, because I agree that it would nice for that to change. Just seems like the original post is making the KISA archetype to be superior to others, or that the roguish archetype is bad, which is the only thing I don't agree with. People here place so much importance in this trope, because we've never gotten to fully enjoy it. We always get the rougish types, so many people are just bored of it. Nobody's saying it's bad (I adore Isabela, for example), just that we want some variety. And it feels like the media (not just games) is, by omission, saying that gay men and women can't be a certain way. Plus there's the fact that KISAs are often presented as the perfect love interests. I blame Disney Gay folks also want to experience such stories.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 16, 2017 23:51:06 GMT
Really glad that this thread has been revived on this forum! Even though I don't care one way or another for a gay KISA, I'm happy to see a strong push for the archetype as I'd rather have that over yet another roguish or troubled gay LI.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 17, 2017 0:37:31 GMT
Alright, alright. If we're going to have a gay or lesbian KISA what's there flaw going to be?
Alistair's was his manchildness. Sebastian's was his religious zealotry. Aveline's was turning blind eye to all of Hawke and friends criminal activities. Cassandra's was being a bit to aggressive and easily frustrated. And Blackwall's was being a big fat liar?
What do we have left? Bioware really hasn't tackled classism/elitism yet in a romance. Or how about a KISA's whose obsessed with revenge? Perhaps they're a "knight of summer" and very naive about the world ala Sansa Stark? Hell, going the Don Quixote route a making them delusional would be neat.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 17, 2017 0:47:25 GMT
I know the title mentions specifically gay KISAs, but can a person discuss KISAs of other LGBT+ orientations as well since we haven't had those either?
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 17, 2017 0:55:32 GMT
Why not? People should be free to talk about wanting a furry KISA if they want.
Anarchy should be the only rule here.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Apr 17, 2017 0:58:32 GMT
I know the title mentions specifically gay KISAs, but can a person discuss KISAs of other LGBT+ orientations as well since we haven't had those either? Of course dear. I just use gay for simplicity's sake. Discussion of lesbian, bisexual, trans, and yes ace and demi KISAs are welcome.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 17, 2017 4:10:14 GMT
I know the title mentions specifically gay KISAs, but can a person discuss KISAs of other LGBT+ orientations as well since we haven't had those either? Of course dear. I just use gay for simplicity's sake. Discussion of lesbian, bisexual, trans, and yes ace and demi KISAs are welcome. Okay, thank you. I just wanted to make sure.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 17, 2017 5:43:53 GMT
Since it was briefly talked about in the Romance thread and I've been thinking on it more, I think a good example to look to for an asexual/demisexual KISA character for Mass Effect is Bobbie Draper from the book and television series The Expanse.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 17, 2017 16:11:18 GMT
Anyways, I would love a gay KISA who is explicitly gay without it being what their character arc is about.
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 17, 2017 16:44:41 GMT
Anyways, I would love a gay KISA who is explicitly gay without it being what their character arc is about. And add a dialogue, where a female squad member tries to flirt with him and he immediately shuts it down. And after the MEA fiasco I want a lovingly rendered sex scene.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Apr 17, 2017 16:48:56 GMT
Anyways, I would love a gay KISA who is explicitly gay without it being what their character arc is about. And add a dialogue, where a female squad member tries to flirt with him and he immediately shuts it down. And after the MEA fiasco I want a lovingly rendered sex scene. I hate ME team
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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 17, 2017 16:54:37 GMT
Really would like a gay character who flirts with other men, and not in a creepy, sexual, winkwink nudgenudge way.
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Post by disgustednoise on Apr 17, 2017 20:03:40 GMT
Why are people still mentioning Sebastian's name in this thread?
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 17, 2017 23:31:13 GMT
Anyways, I would love a gay KISA who is explicitly gay without it being what their character arc is about. And add a dialogue, where a female squad member tries to flirt with him and he immediately shuts it down. And after the MEA fiasco I want a lovingly rendered sex scene.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 18, 2017 0:34:58 GMT
Really would like a gay character who flirts with other men, and not in a creepy, sexual, winkwink nudgenudge way. As long as it's not the KISA or a cute/shy/virginal type character, I'm all for it. Definitely don't want a repeat of Dorian's trolling for sex, as someone aptly put it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 7:43:40 GMT
Anyways, I would love a gay KISA who is explicitly gay without it being what their character arc is about. And add a dialogue, where a female squad member tries to flirt with him and he immediately shuts it down. And after the MEA fiasco I want a lovingly rendered sex scene. Do I detect a hint of vindictiveness laced with schadenfreude?
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Post by Rouccoco on Apr 18, 2017 16:22:50 GMT
^Hell hath no fury like a gay scorned
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Post by MediocreOgre on Apr 18, 2017 16:50:46 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a KISA that falls within LGBT, because I agree that it would nice for that to change. Just seems like the original post is making the KISA archetype to be superior to others, or that the roguish archetype is bad, which is the only thing I don't agree with. People here place so much importance in this trope, because we've never gotten to fully enjoy it. We always get the rougish types, so many people are just bored of it. Nobody's saying it's bad (I adore Isabela, for example), just that we want some variety. And it feels like the media (not just games) is, by omission, saying that gay men and women can't be a certain way. Plus there's the fact that KISAs are often presented as the perfect love interests. I blame Disney Gay folks also want to experience such stories. Another thing is that KISAs tend to get incredible plot relevance, especially in DA (Alistair, Aveline, Cullen, Cass) so having an LGBTQA+ KISA would do a lot to finally get those types to be non-optional, non killable, and plot important. The roguish types are sometimes not only not that plot crucial, but also optional. But then again, we could finally get our not straight KISA and they'd be a non plot crucial, optional character, but hey, at least it'd be something.
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 18, 2017 19:49:09 GMT
People here place so much importance in this trope, because we've never gotten to fully enjoy it. We always get the rougish types, so many people are just bored of it. Nobody's saying it's bad (I adore Isabela, for example), just that we want some variety. And it feels like the media (not just games) is, by omission, saying that gay men and women can't be a certain way. Plus there's the fact that KISAs are often presented as the perfect love interests. I blame Disney Gay folks also want to experience such stories. Another thing is that KISAs tend to get incredible plot relevance, especially in DA (Alistair, Aveline, Cullen, Cass) so having an LGBTQA+ KISA would do a lot to finally get those types to be non-optional, non killable, and plot important. The roguish types are sometimes not only not that plot crucial, but also optional. But then again, we could finally get our not straight KISA and they'd be a non plot crucial, optional character, but hey, at least it'd be something. Here I must respectfully disagree. The Gay Knight in Shining Armor is a worthy goal, but I will always be weary of railroaded characters and/or content in Role Playing Games. Making the player accept choices that they might not agree with erodes player agency and creates plot holes when their characters don't fit the writers' wishes. For example, it makes little sense for a full Paragon Shepard to accept half the psychopaths on the Suicide Mission in ME2, both for moral and pragmatic reasons. And no, I don't consider "if they're so evil it's okay to sacrifice them" to be very Paragon. Conversely, it's hard to justify a ruthless criminal Hawke to be forced to associate with Aveline, and even they are just using her it makes less sense for her to not have a breaking point and try to arrest Hawke. A particular character has exclusive skills/contacts/plot coupons that you need to progress? Well, I consider that bad game design in an RPG for not allowing the player to be creative enough to succeed on their own, not to mention the drama for potential failure (actual failure, not simply the plot stalling).
Another thing I don't care for is the Unfortunate Implication is that the only reason for a player to reject such a character is that they must be a bigot. I really like Meavaris Tilani and hope she becomes an optional Companion in Dragon Age 4, yet off the top of my head I can think of several valid roleplaying choices for a player not to recruit her that have nothing to do with gender or sexuality:
- The player wants to be a ruthless and powerful Magister and sees no reason for "reform".
- The player is RPing a radical revolutionary that sees all of Tevinter as irredeemable and needs to burn.
- The player supports reform but considers the Lucerni dangerously naïve.
- The player cannot forgive Maevaris owning slaves, even if it is only a technicality and treats them with respect.
- The player prefers another Companion that Mae constantly fights with.
- The player simply doesn't care for "sassy" characters.
"But wait!" I hear some you say, "we want a gay hero who is of perfect moral virtue so that the player has no justifiable reason to block them!" My apathy towards black and white cardboard cutouts of any orientation aside, I vehemently object to the notion that players' RP choices must have Freudian undertones. Not everyone plays self inserts, some people prefer characters who are nothing like themselves. You can roleplay characters that are equal opportunity assholes, and not prejudiced. And sometimes it isn't about your characters morality, sometimes you just don't care for a Companion for one reason or another.
So in short, while I support a gay KISA as an optional party member/advisor and Love Interest, I don't think they should be mandatory. Anymore than good (Alistair, Aveline, Cullen) or evil (Morrigan) hetero ones are...
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