Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Mar 17, 2017 19:29:34 GMT
Yes, because POC live almost exclusively in exotic places like Zimbabwe - it's not like both Europe and USA have a large non-Caucasian population that keeps steadily growing. It's also amusing to claim that because BW makes most their sales in America and Europe, it means that we can just blindly assume that the games are sold to the same people as any other random product. 20 million non Europeans live in EU. Or 4% of population. That's by no means large, and growing, they'd need couple of centuries to come close to white people in prevalence. Repeat after me: being European does not make you white. Now louder for the crew in the last row.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 19:29:42 GMT
no its not. Look my skin completion is almost that of Jon Snow up there so I don't have any special bias. But you can be white in a total of six presets including both defaults. That's not unrepresentative by any stretch of the imagination. It's an RPG game. The whole point of it is to create a character that resembles you. Their character designer allows you to make several dozen drag queen transgendered characters, but not a single pale white character. I'm surprised blonde hair is in there at all, and blue eyes. I agree. Look, speaking about myself, being very pale, I can't find a skin tone that matches mine. I haven't played yet, it's true, but from the videos, there isn't a single white female preset that I've seen. The blonde one has a darker skin tone than the "lightest" asian preset. For the male CC, there is a a single white dude (maybe there is another one, don't remember now) and the others are mixed ethnicity, black, and two asians. If I could customize freely, I wouldn't complain at all, even choosing the other presets to customize my character. But the game, from what people tell, pick your Dad appearance based on preset, and having only one option, or two at most (maybe none at all), with predefined cheekbones, mouth and eyebrow does not look good for me. Being a pale blonde with blue eyes in real life, I don't find myself being "represented" (if that's the term you want to put it), especially because Dad will make it look like I'm adopted. But that's just me. I'll shut it now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 19:31:38 GMT
In the twenty-second century, blond hair like hers was a rarity, and blue eyes were nonexistent. - Mass Effect: Ascension Which is a debatable prediction... but hey, it's science fiction. The fiction is stronger than the science it seems and it may be less a prediction than an obscure reference to another books take on the future. It's been awhile since I read it but I think The Education of Oversoul Seven has a similarly worded line.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 19:33:08 GMT
In the twenty-second century, blond hair like hers was a rarity, and blue eyes were nonexistent. - Mass Effect: Ascension Hair dye and contact lenses? That is a work around.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2017 19:33:37 GMT
Bioware makes most of their sales in Europe and America. Last I remember both those places are majority white. I know, horror. Bioware sales in Zimbabwe aren't stellar I hear. Yes, because POC live almost exclusively in exotic places like Zimbabwe - it's not like both Europe and USA have a large non-Caucasian population that keeps steadily growing. It's also amusing to claim that because BW makes most their sales in America and Europe, it means that we can just blindly assume that the games are sold to the same people as any other random product. Look, I want Bioware to include in their cc the ability to make black and Asian characters (which actually look black/asian not just changed skincolour- which YAY is actually possible withthis cc!) but the non-white pop in Europe is not large. There are areas which have larger minority groups but when you look at the pop as a whole it's not that big. The UK for example, which does have a history of immigration, has a population of other 87 % white people from 2011 census data. America I think has much larger minority group I think? But Europe which is one of Bioware's main markets doesn't. It's really the reason that all protags in marketing are white. I love the variety of presets they have put in to the cc but my only problem is the limitations within those presets. Like there's only one preset that let's you get super pale like I am, but it looks nothing like me so I can't create myself. I think the Bioware devs would just need to tweak it so that all skintone shades are available for all presets. I think it's only limited cus of the Alec thing.
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Post by Syv on Mar 17, 2017 19:35:12 GMT
Eeer, I see two white presets in the game as much as there is two african presets, two south asian presets, two asian presets. It's just that it didn't translate correctly. More a technical issue than anything else to me. A matter of lightening.
People are boring trying to turn everything into identity politics. Also, I'd like to remind that all the threads that were derailed with Manveeir, were locked, none survived. You might try to be a little cautious. To be honest, i don't get why this guy keep being brought up by some, it's getting ridiculous.
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Post by XKnight on Mar 17, 2017 19:46:23 GMT
It's an RPG game. The whole point of it is to create a character that resembles you. Their character designer allows you to make several dozen drag queen transgendered characters, but not a single pale white character. I'm surprised blonde hair is in there at all, and blue eyes. I agree. Look, speaking about myself, being very pale, I can't find a skin tone that matches mine. I haven't played yet, it's true, but from the videos, there isn't a single white female preset that I've seen. The blonde one has a darker skin tone than the "lightest" asian preset. For the male CC, there is a a single white dude (maybe there is another one, don't remember now) and the others are mixed ethnicity, black, and two asians. If I could customize freely, I wouldn't complain at all, even choosing the other presets to customize my character. But the game, from what people tell, pick your Dad appearance based on preset, and having only one option, or two at most (maybe none at all), with predefined cheekbones, mouth and eyebrow does not look good for me. Being a pale blonde with blue eyes in real life, I don't find myself being "represented" (if that's the term you want to put it), especially because Dad will make it look like I'm adopted. But that's just me. I'll shut it now. no. I'm with you. I'm not looking to make myself ( I'm male and mixed white/asian ). But I like to create characters based on and themed around other fictional characters. A favorite template of my female protag is to base her on Kara Zor-El aka Supergirl. in order to do that, I need to make her light/fair skinned, blonde, and blue eyes. and based on what I've seen of the CC, it doesn't look like that is possible due to the utter lack of light/fair skin tones. plus, there's like only 1, maybe 2, caucasian looking female defaults ( #3 and maybe #2 ), neither has particularly attractive facial structures. If I choose one of the other presets with better facial structure ( like #8 ), then I can't change the actual face features and I'm stuck with an Alec Ryder who's not caucasian. And that doesn't make any sense role-playing wise ( or at least how I want to role play my character ). the whole system is just simply mind-boggling. Who during development thought this would be a good idea??
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Post by midasear on Mar 17, 2017 19:49:37 GMT
Yes. Manveer Heir is one of the biggest assholes on Twitter. And that's despite twitter being the most competitive environment for assholes ever devised. Boo hoo. Look, I hate the SJW crowd as much as anyone. I've hated them since I was in High School, and since I'm AARP eligible, I've been hating them since before most people who actually know what Twitter is were born. And my politics are so right wing I'm not sure the Magna Carta was a good idea (Divine Right of Kings has a lot to recommend it, IMHO). And I'm so white I have to wear 100 SPF lotion on cloudy days. I'm a hypersensitive curmudgeon to boot. But "Bioware hates White People!" is just about the dumbest idea I've encountered in a half century's worth of encountering dumb ideas. It requires the believer to not notice that EVERY default protagonist in EVERY Bioware game, upcoming blockbuster with nightmarish facial animations included, has been an obviously white person. (Well, except for Jade Empire, where the default was still about as pale as plausible in an East Asian setting). In Dragon Age:Origin we got six different default protagonists, and they still managed to all be white. Seriously, you people are worse than the SJWs when it comes to looking for stuff to hate. They pull out a magnifying glass and see racism in the grease stains on potato chips. You people pull out a microscope and stick a kaleidoscope in front for good measure. Seriously, STFU! You're making white people (and our numerous sympathizers) look like morons. And for good measure "Stay off my damn lawn, Delinquent! Or I'm calling your parents!"
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 17, 2017 19:53:45 GMT
Yes, because POC live almost exclusively in exotic places like Zimbabwe - it's not like both Europe and USA have a large non-Caucasian population that keeps steadily growing. It's also amusing to claim that because BW makes most their sales in America and Europe, it means that we can just blindly assume that the games are sold to the same people as any other random product. 20 million non Europeans live in EU. Or 4% of population. That's by no means large, and growing, they'd need couple of centuries to come close to white people in prevalence. Wrong statistics hon - the ones you picked are about people who are not citizens of any of EU country, NOT PoC - who btw. ARE Europeans, even if their ancestors had come to Europe at one time. Truth of a matter is, according to actually relevant statistics, both USA and Europe will likely stop being a white-majority countries in about 2-4 decades, not centuries. www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
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Post by colfoley on Mar 17, 2017 19:54:41 GMT
no its not. Look my skin completion is almost that of Jon Snow up there so I don't have any special bias. But you can be white in a total of six presets including both defaults. That's not unrepresentative by any stretch of the imagination. It's an RPG game. The whole point of it is to create a character that resembles you. Their character designer allows you to make several dozen drag queen transgendered characters, but not a single pale white character. I'm surprised blonde hair is in there at all, and blue eyes. I've never played a character that was representative of me. I usually play as women in point of fact.
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Post by Missy Mako on Mar 17, 2017 19:54:43 GMT
Looks like from the screencaps I've seen that CC has really bad lighting too, which doesn't help you really gauge what you are building. DAI had that problem. I had to build my character in a CC with the light quality of a turnip cellar. This. I found that my character ended up looking a fair bit paler in-game than she did in the CC itself.
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Post by Thalandor on Mar 17, 2017 19:55:04 GMT
Do they even test their game...
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Mar 17, 2017 19:59:12 GMT
Except that in Codex of the mother, she is also dark skinned... Two dark skinned parents do not biologically produce white children. One white and one dark skinned parent certainly can.. but not two. COME TO BRAZIL HUEHUEHUEHEUEHUEHI'm assuming you've never been to Brazil. Mix humans enough, and any skin color can come out of any other. Really, you should see family, both sides.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 17, 2017 20:04:19 GMT
20 million non Europeans live in EU. Or 4% of population. That's by no means large, and growing, they'd need couple of centuries to come close to white people in prevalence. Wrong statistics hon - the ones you picked are about people who are not citizens of any of EU country, NOT PoC - who btw. ARE Europeans, even if their ancestors had come to Europe at one time. Truth of a matter is, according to actually relevant statistics, both USA and Europe will likely stop being a white-majority countries in about 2-4 decades, not centuries. www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.worldThe Guardian... no direct source... yea, looks legit. Seriously though: No matter what the globalists try to sell you, population numbers aren't everything, so even if whites (whatever that term actually means these days) might be a minority in the US/Europe in a couple of decades, that doesn't mean that the culture will not remain dominated by them... race is not such a big factor there.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 17, 2017 20:04:34 GMT
Mods can't get here fast enough. Ugh. Mods aren't going to fix whats wrong with this game.
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Post by Typhons Bioheat on Mar 17, 2017 20:09:41 GMT
Well, many of Bioware's staff are Regressive SJWs and Regressive SJWs are anti-White. Additionally, Regressive SJWs are also known for being incompetent at their work.
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Post by XKnight on Mar 17, 2017 20:15:19 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 17, 2017 20:15:57 GMT
Wrong statistics hon - the ones you picked are about people who are not citizens of any of EU country, NOT PoC - who btw. ARE Europeans, even if their ancestors had come to Europe at one time. Truth of a matter is, according to actually relevant statistics, both USA and Europe will likely stop being a white-majority countries in about 2-4 decades, not centuries. www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.worldThe Guardian... no direct source... yea, looks legit. Seriously though: No matter what the globalists try to sell you, population numbers aren't everything, so even if whites (whatever that term actually means these days) might be a minority in the US/Europe in a couple of decades, that doesn't mean that the culture will not remain dominated by them... race is not such a big factor there. Oh, so you're the one of those who only reads the title of the article and not the article, ey? Because if you did, you'd know that the article cites numbers from US Census Bureau, United Nations and a number of other sources. Also - what the heck does culture has to do with anything here? ... Or are you claiming that even if US and Europe had a larger number of PoC than whites, the "white culture" would dictate that most people would still prefer to play white protagonist??? ... wut?
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Post by Syv on Mar 17, 2017 20:22:04 GMT
It' not just caucasian that is concerned. Daddy in my playthrough doesn't have the same skin as my femRyder who looks like a muslim. He looks like an asian with a yellow skin while my character isn't asian at all. I think it's obvious that there are some issues as much as it is obvious how Bioware put so little effort into the CC given how limited it is. I'm almost sure they didn't even check their own system with the father. There are far more alarming issues anyway. Dead eyes in all the characters, atrocious and wtf facial animations to begin with.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2017 20:26:35 GMT
I read the article. It wasn't a good article and ignored the actual census from countries in Europe like the UK were the minority ethinicities are nowhere near replacing the majority held by the white population. Look America is likely different, but we are talking of over likely around 90 % of the European population being white. Though I do feel like this is a stupid discussion and completely off the op's original point. It's just important to look how Europe actually is. It's not this multi cultural paradise that people talk about.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 17, 2017 20:46:50 GMT
Looks like from the screencaps I've seen that CC has really bad lighting too, which doesn't help you really gauge what you are building. DAI had that problem. I had to build my character in a CC with the light quality of a turnip cellar. This. I found that my character ended up looking a fair bit paler in-game than she did in the CC itself. I don't know why they CONSTANTLY do that shit with the lighting. I make a face I'm all Yay with and as soon as I hit in game lighting I'm like "what fucking monster is this?" That said people going I can't make my character look how I want to. Yeah that's pretty shit when the devs don't give you enough options to make your character the ethnicity you want them too. I know the feeling. Hopefully they'll patch it in. Also anyone saying why didn't people make black characters in DAO, etc. 9 times out of 10 the darker skin tones looked like flaming hot garbage. DA2 also had this issue. (though to a much lesser extent). Thankfully MEA doesn't have that issue. I wanted to make a black fem warden but I looked at those freaking blotches in her skin (what the fuck was that anyway) and made her a white elf.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 17, 2017 20:49:56 GMT
I read the article. It wasn't a good article and ignored the actual census from countries in Europe like the UK were the minority ethinicities are nowhere near replacing the majority held by the white population. Look America is likely different, but we are talking of over likely around 90 % of the European population being white. Though I do feel like this is a stupid discussion and completely off the op's original point. It's just important to look how Europe actually is. It's not this multi cultural paradise that people talk about. Okay... so your criticism of the article bases on a fact that they apparently ignore the data from census of ONE country... when the article speaks of Europe overall? ... that's like taking census from my country - Poland - and claiming that since 98% of population here is white it means that minority ethnicities are nowhere near replacing the majority held by white population across the whole of Europe (despite Poland being only a middle-sized country with less than a half of population of Germany). I think you'd know where to spot the fallacy. I mean, never mind that our neighbors across the western border and Baltic sea are actually as close to multi-cultural paradise as you can get, relatively speaking.
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Post by Elsariel on Mar 17, 2017 20:53:46 GMT
Mods can't get here fast enough. Ugh. Mods aren't going to fix whats wrong with this game. No but it'll fix my main beefs with the CC, assuming Devs don't get to it. I think Devs will fix some of the complaints. I'm betting they'll open up the defaults for customization, allow some lighter skin tones, and change papa Ryder to having the skin tone you pick for your main. Beyond that, who knows. In any case, Mods will likely add complexion replacements, extra tattoos, makeup designs, new hair, and a bunch of other goodies Bioware will probably never do. So yeah, can't wait.
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Post by NRieh on Mar 17, 2017 20:56:54 GMT
For crying out loud, people!..
It's NOT about the genetics or SJW statistics, or POC vs white demographics!
It's about bloody feature not doing its job, which is (TADA!) to give us the MATCHING model (and not to explain us how any random Alec fits our character).
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Post by XKnight on Mar 17, 2017 20:59:12 GMT
It' not just caucasian that is concerned. Daddy in my playthrough doesn't have the same skin as my femRyder who looks like a muslim. He looks like an asian with a yellow skin while my character isn't asian at all. I think it's obvious that there are some issues as much as it is obvious how Bioware put so little effort into the CC given how limited it is. I'm almost sure they didn't even check their own system with the father. There are far more alarming issues anyway. Dead eyes in all the characters, atrocious and wtf facial animations to begin with. yeah. the current system of trying to match Family Ryder to you character is just way too limited and restrictive.
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