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Post by vertigomez on Mar 24, 2017 14:34:36 GMT
I'm seconding #NewGalaxySameBullshit, #NewGalaxySameInequality (or something similar). Gets to the point of the matter and highlights the fact that we all THOUGHT things would change for the better.
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Post by Raga on Mar 24, 2017 15:47:41 GMT
TIL a 2/4/4/3 spread is a massive downgrade from a 2/4/4/2 spread. I vote they delete Vetra from the f/f romances to restore balance. How will schadenfreude make the options for gay men better? They would still have 0 squadmates and most of the other issues listed in the OP. *nvm. Saw this was clarified as sarcasm farther down the page.
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Post by wittand25 on Mar 24, 2017 16:46:55 GMT
I am extremely disappointed by the provided options in Andromeda.
I mean the two available guys would be fine if there were also a squad mate option, but without that they are simply too little content and the staggering difference between the cut scenes when you compare Gill´s and Cory´s is another let down.
This actually makes me glad that due to insufficient hardware (I will need some more months of saving money until I can afford a PC which can run the game smoothly) I did not pre order, and can buy it once the price is appropriate for the effort spend on the m/m romance arcs.
Regarding how this issue can be addressed:
I think it is unlikely that a new squad mate will be added by DLC, since a such an addition would have to be planned/in the works already long before launch because otherwise the character will never really fit into the game and always stick out. So the best hope is creating a way for Scott to romance Jaal. This can even work if BioWare announces it soon with some appropriate explanation lie "We cut it because there was not enough time, but since we are reworking animations anyway we can now implement it like we originally indented."
Other than that the only thing that they could do would be to expand the existing options as part of an DLC, but frankly that would not be enough for me. I really hope that something will be done about the issue and that they will announce what they plan to do soon.
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Post by benji1123 on Mar 24, 2017 17:05:50 GMT
I'm seconding #NewGalaxySameBullshit, #NewGalaxySameInequality (or something similar). Gets to the point of the matter and highlights the fact that we all THOUGHT things would change for the better hey vertigomez - we already have some folks using #MassInequalityAndromeda if you like that one. -------------------------
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Post by qunaripenis on Mar 24, 2017 17:09:35 GMT
Someone needs to tweet this to the developers. I knew the difference was quite bad, but it's even worse now that I see the whole menu.
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Post by bloodofthefirst on Mar 24, 2017 17:14:14 GMT
Someone needs to tweet this to the developers. I knew the difference was quite bad, but it's even worse now that I see the whole menu. What even worse is that if you look at these options that were given, they were all inferior in contents and both Kaidan and Reyes were made for females and just mod in for guys.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 17:18:21 GMT
Someone needs to tweet this to the developers. You forgot Diana Allers on female Player side. She's bi. And if Javik counts you should also add Shiala or what her name was (that Asari in the first game).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 17:32:29 GMT
I knew the difference was quite bad, but it's even worse now that I see the whole menu. What even worse is that if you look at these options that were given, they were all inferior in contents and both Kaidan and Reyes were made for females and just mod in for guys. The worst part is that I did not get warm with either Steve or Gill. When I met them, I immediately got that NPC vibe from them. They can't be taken on missions and they don't have their own face model. They look disposable, as if their face was created in 10 minutes in the character editor. There's nothing interesting in their face. There's nothing interesting if you see them kissing, because they don't have proper kiss animations... In addition, the conversations with them feel like a soap opera. Or at least that's my opinion... The only one I really liked was Kaidan. He's just an adaption from the female version and still much better than the actual gay characters we've gotten so far.
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Post by saga on Mar 24, 2017 20:20:12 GMT
Wow, seeing the visual representation of the romance distribution across all four games makes the inequality very easy to see.
Interestingly, it also makes me realize just how many of the f/f choices are asari! And how is it that f/m and m/f players have such a wide variety of species to romance (five different ones) compared to the f/f and m/m pairings. It just seems odd that Bioware never noticed or took care to balance out that aspect.
Of course, the most egregious discrepancy is in both the limited number of m/m options, zero species diversity, and the fact that they had no options at all until ME3. As a player who only does f/f, I never noticed or really realized that fact until just now.
I mean, I thought it was unfair that all I had in ME1 and ME2 were Liara and then Kelly (who totally ditched my Shepard in ME3), but "something" is worlds away from "nothing."
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Post by arwan on Mar 24, 2017 21:18:22 GMT
If you guys need another romance chart for just the Andromeda romances, I made one today for such an occasion, although it only shows Tempest romances. You can take a look at it here, feel free to use it however you'd like.On a more general note, it's quite a big shame how all this romance stuff has turned out. A week ago I thought I'd be playing Andromeda every chance I got by now, instead I'm just sitting here with not much motivation to play at all. Funny how that works.
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Post by Natashina on Mar 24, 2017 23:35:52 GMT
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Post by tarotmage on Mar 25, 2017 0:04:44 GMT
If you guys need another romance chart for just the Andromeda romances, I made one today for such an occasion, although it only shows Tempest romances. You can take a look at it here, feel free to use it however you'd like.On a more general note, it's quite a big shame how all this romance stuff has turned out. A week ago I thought I'd be playing Andromeda every chance I got by now, instead I'm just sitting here with not much motivation to play at all. Funny how that works. I know exactly how you feel. In the weeks before release, I pre-purchased the "Art of Mass Effect Andromeda" book, upgraded my strategy guide to the "Pathfinder's Edition" (with all the bells and whistles like the full galaxy map and backpack) and was eagerly waiting for my PC Collector's Edition R/C Nomad to arrive.
Then reality kicked in.
The PC game arrived first, which was nothing more than a code in an empty box, making part of my Collector's Edition unnecessary since there was nothing to put into the steel case that came with the CE. Then we got the rude awakening regarding the m/m relationships in the game, which in my opinion was pretty much an insult.
My response to all this? I cancelled the order for the art book, downgraded the strategy guide to just the book (I stopped playing Andromeda but once the guide comes in that may give me motivation to try it again) and put the CE with the R/C Nomad up for sale on Craigslist to get at least part of my money back. Oh, and from now on I will no longer pre-order any BioWare title. The odds of being disappointed have outweighed any excitement I might have had playing a BioWare game from day one.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...well, you know the rest.
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Post by james112 on Mar 25, 2017 1:06:00 GMT
Someone needs to tweet this to the developers. You forgot Diana Allers on female Player side. She's bi. And if Javik counts you should also add Shiala or what her name was (that Asari in the first game). Wow... that's pretty sad when you think about it.... has Bioware provided any information on why there's more than double the content for m/f, f/m, or f/f vs. m/m?
I'm straight but not narrow - and this kind of difference seems pretty hard to ignore :-(
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Post by Lorn on Mar 25, 2017 1:23:08 GMT
You forgot Diana Allers on female Player side. She's bi. And if Javik counts you should also add Shiala or what her name was (that Asari in the first game). Wow... that's pretty sad when you think about it.... has Bioware provided any information on why there's more than double the content for m/f, f/m, or f/f vs. m/m?
I'm straight but not narrow - and this kind of difference seems pretty hard to ignore :-(
It's simple, clearly BioWare hates "the gays".
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Post by rafflesz on Mar 25, 2017 1:29:19 GMT
Wow... that's pretty sad when you think about it.... has Bioware provided any information on why there's more than double the content for m/f, f/m, or f/f vs. m/m?
I'm straight but not narrow - and this kind of difference seems pretty hard to ignore :-(
It's simple, clearly BioWare hates "the gays". Maybe you could produce a counter argument to the actual topic at hand instead of just being hyperbolic? Just a thought friend!
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Post by Lorn on Mar 25, 2017 1:43:42 GMT
It's simple, clearly BioWare hates "the gays". Maybe you could produce a counter argument to the actual topic at hand instead of just being hyperbolic? Just a thought friend! Who's being hyperbolic? I'm not the one stating BioWare is discriminating against "the gays" here.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 25, 2017 2:59:05 GMT
Maybe you could produce a counter argument to the actual topic at hand instead of just being hyperbolic? Just a thought friend! Who's being hyperbolic? I'm not the one stating BioWare is discriminating against "the gays" here. I'd love to hear why you don't think there are any biases in their developmental decisions.
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Post by leomerya12 on Mar 25, 2017 4:42:58 GMT
Imagine going to a bakery, and paying $3 for a chocolate chip cookie, but the cookie they give you is a day old, or it has hardly any chips. Yet, the next person, who also paid $3 got new cookies that were fresh and with the right amount of chips. How would you feel? Monetarily it just doesn't make sense to pay full-price for an inferior experience.
The only way it would make sense is if BioWare gave their Gaymers a discount for a discount experience; but we know that's not going to happen.
I won't buy from them again, because paying full-price (even if it's on sale, because it's on sale for EVERYBODY) for an inferior experience is ludicrous.
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Post by Panda on Mar 25, 2017 6:59:25 GMT
You forgot Diana Allers on female Player side. She's bi. And if Javik counts you should also add Shiala or what her name was (that Asari in the first game). Wow... that's pretty sad when you think about it.... has Bioware provided any information on why there's more than double the content for m/f, f/m, or f/f vs. m/m?
I'm straight but not narrow - and this kind of difference seems pretty hard to ignore :-(
Well some of that is because there is no m/m romances in ME1 and ME2. When people complained about that devs gave a excuse that Shepard is predefined character who is straight. The problem with this was that fem!shep was able to have f/f romances with Liara and Kelly in those games so clearly fem!shep wasn't predefined straight. They tried to claim that Asari aren't women and fem!shep's romance with Liara wasn't lesbian one, but couldn't come up with excuse with Kelly so they had to submit to defeat and finally had 2 m/m options in ME3. Overall even with ME3 and now with ME:A it seems like m/m romances are after thought. Reyes is bisexual LI, but his f/m side is lot more polished animation-wise and if you romance him with Scott Vetra will refer you as his queen- it really seems like they just forgot to record that line for Scott's romance and used Sara's romance line with both. Gil also has crewmate has less romance content than squadmate LIs and there is prove in the code of the game from datamining that Jaal was supposed to be bisexual at some point, but that m/m romance was cut off.
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Post by rafflesz on Mar 25, 2017 7:10:54 GMT
Wow... that's pretty sad when you think about it.... has Bioware provided any information on why there's more than double the content for m/f, f/m, or f/f vs. m/m?
I'm straight but not narrow - and this kind of difference seems pretty hard to ignore :-(
Well some of that is because there is no m/m romances in ME1 and ME2. When people complained about that devs gave a excuse that Shepard is predefined character who is straight. The problem with this was that fem!shep was able to have f/f romances with Liara and Kelly in those games so clearly fem!shep wasn't predefined straight. They tried to claim that Asari aren't women and fem!shep's romance with Liara wasn't lesbian one, but couldn't come up with excuse with Kelly so they had to submit to defeat and finally had 2 m/m options in ME3. Overall even with ME3 and now with ME:A it seems like m/m romances are after thought. Reyes is bisexual LI, but his f/m side is lot more polished animation-wise and if you romance him with Scott Vetra will refer you as his queen- it really seems like they just forgot to record that line for Scott's romance and used Sara's romance line with both. Gil also has crewmate has less romance content than squadmate LIs and there is prove in the code of the game from datamining that Jaal was supposed to be bisexual at some point, but that m/m romance was cut off. LOL they really fought it that hard in the previous MEs? Thats so disheartening...I really thought bioware did not operate like that. It really just seems like the only reason Dorian from DA:I was even a thing was because the game was the brainchild of a gay man. You get called a queen in ME:A? No...you lying... They really call you a queen?
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Post by Panda on Mar 25, 2017 7:20:55 GMT
Well some of that is because there is no m/m romances in ME1 and ME2. When people complained about that devs gave a excuse that Shepard is predefined character who is straight. The problem with this was that fem!shep was able to have f/f romances with Liara and Kelly in those games so clearly fem!shep wasn't predefined straight. They tried to claim that Asari aren't women and fem!shep's romance with Liara wasn't lesbian one, but couldn't come up with excuse with Kelly so they had to submit to defeat and finally had 2 m/m options in ME3. Overall even with ME3 and now with ME:A it seems like m/m romances are after thought. Reyes is bisexual LI, but his f/m side is lot more polished animation-wise and if you romance him with Scott Vetra will refer you as his queen- it really seems like they just forgot to record that line for Scott's romance and used Sara's romance line with both. Gil also has crewmate has less romance content than squadmate LIs and there is prove in the code of the game from datamining that Jaal was supposed to be bisexual at some point, but that m/m romance was cut off. LOL they really fought it that hard in the previous MEs? Thats so disheartening...I really thought bioware did not operate like that. It really just seems like the only reason Dorian from DA:I was even a thing was because the game was the brainchild of a gay man. You get called a queen in ME:A? No...you lying... They really call you a queen? Sadly yes, they tried to really hard to not have any m/m romances in the game it seems. F/f for some reason was alright though. So since there is no m/m romances in the 2 of 4 games the number is automatically smaller. Doesn't explain why the options are still lacking in ME:A though, everyone else gets at least 2 squadmates to romance, m/m gets 0. Yep, Vetra suggest that Scott is either his queen or baroness depending on dialogue option.
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Post by caladrius on Mar 25, 2017 7:30:08 GMT
LOL they really fought it that hard in the previous MEs? Thats so disheartening...I really thought bioware did not operate like that. It really just seems like the only reason Dorian from DA:I was even a thing was because the game was the brainchild of a gay man. You get called a queen in ME:A? No...you lying... They really call you a queen? Sadly yes, they tried to really hard to not have any m/m romances in the game it seems. F/f for some reason was alright though. So since there is no m/m romances in the 2 of 4 games the number is automatically smaller. Doesn't explain why the options are still lacking in ME:A though, everyone else gets at least 2 squadmates to romance, m/m gets 0. Yep, Vetra suggest that Scott is either his queen or baroness depending on dialogue option. Vetra says if Reyes is king of Kadara, does that make you queen. You can reply, "maybe something less fancy than a queen, like a consort or something", and she'll say you at least deserve to be a baroness.
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Pathfinding my way through life.
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Post by DragonEffect on Mar 25, 2017 7:40:17 GMT
You know what appalls me?
Some of the great contributions made to man ever since Ancient History in the fields of science, literature, philosophy, mathematics, medicine and other major fields were made by gay or bisexual men.
Having a gay or bisexual protagonist in contemporary fiction - be it games, books, movies and others - should be as normal as breathing.
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Post by rafflesz on Mar 25, 2017 7:44:48 GMT
Sadly yes, they tried to really hard to not have any m/m romances in the game it seems. F/f for some reason was alright though. So since there is no m/m romances in the 2 of 4 games the number is automatically smaller. Doesn't explain why the options are still lacking in ME:A though, everyone else gets at least 2 squadmates to romance, m/m gets 0. Yep, Vetra suggest that Scott is either his queen or baroness depending on dialogue option. Vetra says if Reyes is king of Kadara, does that make you queen. You can reply, "maybe something less fancy than a queen, like a consort or something", and she'll say you at least deserve to be a baroness. That is legit disrespectful. Wheres that boycott thread? I'm joining
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Post by Lorn on Mar 25, 2017 7:51:44 GMT
Who's being hyperbolic? I'm not the one stating BioWare is discriminating against "the gays" here. I'd love to hear why you don't think there are any biases in their developmental decisions. That BioWare placed their romances on gender, not sexual orientation. Although if there's anyone you should be pissed at it's those women, this is the second game in a row when WOMEN not MEN have had more romance options than "the gays". Then again, the only arguments here by the "hated gays"are strawman fallacy arguments. It is also highly amusing that many people here were against the harassment of the Fake Lead Animator, but will willingly harass BioWare as a whole over the supposed "mistreatment/insult" to "the gays". Imagine going to a bakery, and paying $3 for a chocolate chip cookie, but the cookie they give you is a day old, or it has hardly any chips. Yet, the next person, who also paid $3 got new cookies that were fresh and with the right amount of chips. How would you feel? Monetarily it just doesn't make sense to pay full-price for an inferior experience. The only way it would make sense is if BioWare gave their Gaymers a discount for a discount experience; but we know that's not going to happen.I won't buy from them again, because paying full-price ( even if it's on sale, because it's on sale for EVERYBODY) for an inferior experience is ludicrous. First off, that's a strawman fallacy. Congratulations. Second, they shouldn't just give "the gays" a discount, they should give everyone a discount seeing as Andromeda is actually a flawed product. From an egalitarian standpoint, there really isn't any substance to an argument saying that "the gays" should be treated better than everyone else, especially after you've fought so hard to be treated the same.
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