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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 6, 2017 9:06:47 GMT
It also eliminates the MEA scenario of 4 alien romances and 1 human. Indeed. It becomes a nonissue because there are no arbitrary restrictions on player choice. Folks that want alien romances can pursue them and folks that want human romances can pursue those. There is more to be gained here than lost.
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 6, 2017 9:22:26 GMT
I will say Cora's romance seemed very... Vanilla. Flirt a bit, use a couple impulse triggers and boom, you got her. There was no real challenge or story to it.
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Post by zaefkol on Apr 6, 2017 9:30:07 GMT
I am much more in favor of gating romance options based on a player's actual decisions within the game rather than their character's gender.
So, basically, make everyone bi, and make choices matter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 9:31:32 GMT
To Bi or not to Bi that is the question. My fellow forum goers, forumites and forupian tubes. I would like to submit to you the forums, a breeding request of significant nature. One that actually goes to the heart of who we are as a diverse group of Krogan, Salarians, Quarians the occasional Vorcha and Humans gamers. Should we or should we not make Suvi a romantic option for all. My reasoning for asking this question is simple. There are no other female human romance options on the tempest. What we have are two alien hetero/lesbian sex options and a third and fourth alien sex option off world, along with two human gay sex options. One of which is off world. And Cora. Cora's great don't get me wrong but i feel like this game is moving a million miles an hour in the gay/hetero alien sex direction, that human "romance" options are being neglected. Not to say I disagree with people wanting to love who they want to love. Love is love, so love whoever. But one thing I feel is being urgently overlooked is human relationships. In a game whos only real theme song is Rag n bone mans "I'm only human." Where the best animations have been reserved for sex scenes. That human relationships should be restricted so, is so. Well, alien. The idea that we really only want to bang the aliens anyway is somewhat insulting. (Please don't read my sig.) And I feel this would go a long toward balancing out the alien human sex ratio in Andromeda. Of course I'm happy to be wrong here if there is a way to bang Suvi I'm all ears. Zip, out. What about the character's wliingness to participate? Did nobody ask them?
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 6, 2017 9:32:49 GMT
I am much more in favor of gating romance options based on a player's actual decisions within the game rather than their character's gender. So, basically, make everyone bi, and make choices matter. I havent seen this suggested before or at least I don't remember it. This sounds a lot better.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
XBL Gamertag: phantomrachie
PSN: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 6, 2017 9:36:50 GMT
I tend to be torn on things like this. On the one hand, I always fall for the straight lady, get mildly disappointed & the roll a male character to romance her. So Cora in ME:A. On the other hand I think representation matters, there are very few gay characters in video games and most of the ones that exist are Bioware characters so I'd hate to see them changed. Having a gay romance option creates that representation in a believable way because there is a reason for them tell the player that they are gay. Cora & Gill both make it equally clear they aren't into women when you flirt with them. Whereas characters like Addison could be gay, straight or bi and the player would have no way of knowing because it never comes up. Ultimately I think that if a game has enough romance options to go around, that they should all have their own sexuality and that the lack of representation for lesbians in video games in general means I wouldn't like to see Suvi made bi. I agree with your assessment only if every single romance is treated equally and has the same amount of content and care. As it stands, some romances have far more attention (Jaal, Peebee, and Cora), while others were clearly secondary (every other option). Due to the realities of game design, limited budgets, and having to prioritize resources, I think it would just be better if every character, not just Suvi, was bi. Gay male Ryders get the least amount of attention and lesbian Ryders aren't much better off if you disregard Peebee as an option. I definitely understand the argument of every gender and sexual orientation being represented. At the same time, I think budgetary restrictions will always make that kind of inclusiveness strategy unwieldy and largely impractical. If every character is bisexual, then player choice is maximized and everybody, regardless of their gender and sexual preference, gets what they want. Really, it comes down to effective writing to make these characters believable. Just because a character isn't set to a particular sexual preference doesn't mean they still cannot be compelling. I haven't romanced Suvi so I don't know what it is like, but if her romance is unsatisfying then making her, in particular, bi won't help that all it will do is remove representation from the game. Making her bi doesn't make her romance more compelling. This isn't like DA2, which was designed around all 4 romance options being bi and so each were compelling. (Isabela is one of my favourite romances) It isn't Suvi's sexuality that doesn't make her romance compelling but how it was designed. If Bioware decides to make everyone bi, then I'd be ok with that, all players would get more options, all players would have access to the more developed romance options, but making only Suvi bi removes a gay main character and just gives straight male characters access to one more romance, when they already have access to 2 of the 3 romances people say are well-developed. I do think it's possible for a game to have characters with their own sexuality and to have all the romances well-developed. One of the things DA:I did very well were the romances, none of them felt like less development time was spent on them and they all seemed very appropriate to the character the player was romancing. It just requires time, commitment and funding.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 6, 2017 9:48:00 GMT
I havent seen this suggested before or at least I don't remember it. This sounds a lot better. Maybe not such a good example, but "Bound by Flame" had an "evil" romance and a "good" romance.
It sounds like a good idea, but I'm yet to see a game that made something like this sufficiently compelling and interesting.
Didn't try it, saw it, but didn't.
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 6, 2017 11:57:00 GMT
Can't tell if this is a troll thread or not. I really hope it is though because if it isn't, really? Uggghhhhhh! Kinda sad to read comments like this and realizing how square-minded so many people have become, at least in the context of being able to see and understand satire when one gets put infront of them with a huge exclamation marks and screaming "satire, irony and sarcasm inside!" Such a triggered society we live in... always willing to search and nitpick for even slightest reason to get offended and complain, yet unable to see an elephant in the room, even if multiple elephants are present...
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Apr 6, 2017 12:03:53 GMT
Look, I just want to bang Suvi as much as the next guy. Is that too much to ask from Bioware? She's obviously the best choice on the Tempest.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 6, 2017 12:05:45 GMT
We should all become straight and gay as shit.
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 6, 2017 12:35:58 GMT
I agree with your assessment only if every single romance is treated equally and has the same amount of content and care. As it stands, some romances have far more attention (Jaal, Peebee, and Cora), while others were clearly secondary (every other option). Due to the realities of game design, limited budgets, and having to prioritize resources, I think it would just be better if every character, not just Suvi, was bi. Gay male Ryders get the least amount of attention and lesbian Ryders aren't much better off if you disregard Peebee as an option. I definitely understand the argument of every gender and sexual orientation being represented. At the same time, I think budgetary restrictions will always make that kind of inclusiveness strategy unwieldy and largely impractical. If every character is bisexual, then player choice is maximized and everybody, regardless of their gender and sexual preference, gets what they want. Really, it comes down to effective writing to make these characters believable. Just because a character isn't set to a particular sexual preference doesn't mean they still cannot be compelling. I haven't romanced Suvi so I don't know what it is like, but if her romance is unsatisfying then making her, in particular, bi won't help that all it will do is remove representation from the game. Making her bi doesn't make her romance more compelling. This isn't like DA2, which was designed around all 4 romance options being bi and so each were compelling. (Isabela is one of my favourite romances) It isn't Suvi's sexuality that doesn't make her romance compelling but how it was designed. If Bioware decides to make everyone bi, then I'd be ok with that, all players would get more options, all players would have access to the more developed romance options, but making only Suvi bi removes a gay main character and just gives straight male characters access to one more romance, when they already have access to 2 of the 3 romances people say are well-developed. I do think it's possible for a game to have characters with their own sexuality and to have all the romances well-developed. One of the things DA:I did very well were the romances, none of them felt like less development time was spent on them and they all seemed very appropriate to the character the player was romancing. It just requires time, commitment and funding. If representation is being such huge and first and foremost concern in storydriven videogame making (which makes me faceplam really hard) then just make a cryopods that are full of gays, lesbians transgenders and whatever (that player can choose to activate or not), hell give them an entire ark and optional quest to search for it in DLC, and be done with it. I gladly accept that in exchange for not being gated from interesting characters combinations simply because "inclusion" and "representation" sjw crap. Right now I feel that in terms of "representation" straight males got shafted, despite the supposed quantity of options. While gays and lesbians get hot and interesting Suvi and Gil, straight males get what? SheVanguard woman, and a creepy Angara that look like a gender-change surgery that went wrong. Now there are also "one size fits all": foolish Asari that for all things and purposes feels and sounds like she is not old enough to be romanced, boring Asaru journalist that tries hard to be Diana Allers but will never be even remotely as interesting and attractive as Allers was, and Turian that sounds like your mom and looks like your granny, but those I will not count since they available to everyone and we talking about strict straight/gay/lesbian romance options here. So in that perspective it is pretty much clear who got better romance options. It feels almost as intentional insult to straight players to get "represented" in a way it is ingame, which I guess should be no big surprise considering ppl like Manveer Heir were developing Andromeda.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 6, 2017 12:54:48 GMT
Multiple threads combined. Amusing as this thread is for comedy value, there's not actually a credible view that straight male players are being 'shafted' is there? My sarcasm/irony detector has bad days on BSN sometimes...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 6, 2017 13:08:38 GMT
I haven't romanced Suvi so I don't know what it is like, but if her romance is unsatisfying then making her, in particular, bi won't help that all it will do is remove representation from the game. Making her bi doesn't make her romance more compelling. This isn't like DA2, which was designed around all 4 romance options being bi and so each were compelling. (Isabela is one of my favourite romances) It isn't Suvi's sexuality that doesn't make her romance compelling but how it was designed. If Bioware decides to make everyone bi, then I'd be ok with that, all players would get more options, all players would have access to the more developed romance options, but making only Suvi bi removes a gay main character and just gives straight male characters access to one more romance, when they already have access to 2 of the 3 romances people say are well-developed. I do think it's possible for a game to have characters with their own sexuality and to have all the romances well-developed. One of the things DA:I did very well were the romances, none of them felt like less development time was spent on them and they all seemed very appropriate to the character the player was romancing. It just requires time, commitment and funding. If representation is being such huge and first and foremost concern in storydriven videogame making (which makes me faceplam really hard) then just make a cryopods that are full of gays, lesbians transgenders and whatever (that player can choose to activate or not), hell give them an entire ark and optional quest to search for it in DLC, and be done with it. I gladly accept that in exchange for not being gated from interesting characters combinations simply because "inclusion" and "representation" sjw crap. Right now I feel that in terms of "representation" straight males got shafted, despite the supposed quantity of options. While gays and lesbians get hot and interesting Suvi and Gil, straight males get what? SheVanguard woman, and a creepy Angara that look like a gender-change surgery that went wrong. Now there are also "one size fits all": foolish Asari that for all things and purposes feels and sounds like she is not old enough to be romanced, boring Asaru journalist that tries hard to be Diana Allers but will never be even remotely as interesting and attractive as Allers was, and Turian that sounds like your mom and looks like your granny, but those I will not count since they available to everyone and we talking about strict straight/gay/lesbian romance options here. So in that perspective it is pretty much clear who got better romance options. It feels almost as intentional insult to straight players to get "represented" in a way it is ingame, which I guess should be no big surprise considering ppl like Manveer Heir were developing Andromeda. Representation != romance options. They are two completely separate things, so I don't understand why people always conflate the two. Representation just means having gay/bi/trans/black/asian/alien/whatever characters somewhere in the game. The number of women you get to bang has nothing to do with "straight representation". And I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy. Having lots of gay/bi characters is supposedly "unrealistic" according to the "anti-sjw" types, and you say that they should have just left all of the LBG characters on a DLC ark. But then you say that all the female characters should be bi so you can have more women to bang. And that's why this whole thing is so mind numbingly stupid. People say that making all the characters bi is "SJW crap", but now apparently having characters who aren't bi is also "SJW crap". So basically everything is SJW crap? I bet they are also responsible for 9/11, faking the moon landing and the events at area 51 as well. Personally, I don't think Suvi should be bi, because she was written as a lesbian. That's who her character is. Same thing with Jaal. If you don't like any of the five female romance options for Scott, tough shit.
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Post by hiffwe on Apr 6, 2017 13:10:38 GMT
Since we're talking about "representation", who do I have to bribe to get an effeminate male LI? Me and my boyfriend always joke that we're the only gay couple excluded from all these inclusive measures.
Anyway, my point is complaining about representation is silly because it's impossible to represent everyone. Straight guys who like redheads aren't included, ladies who want a tough army girlfriend aren't included, etc etc, ad nauseam. It's one thing to be upset if the romance subplot is shitty and undercooked, and an entirely other thing to be mad that your specific interests weren't part of the game. You didn't get alien snakecat man and that sucks, but it also sucked for any dudes who wanted to romance Sera in Inquisition.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
XBL Gamertag: phantomrachie
PSN: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 6, 2017 13:22:10 GMT
I haven't romanced Suvi so I don't know what it is like, but if her romance is unsatisfying then making her, in particular, bi won't help that all it will do is remove representation from the game. Making her bi doesn't make her romance more compelling. This isn't like DA2, which was designed around all 4 romance options being bi and so each were compelling. (Isabela is one of my favourite romances) It isn't Suvi's sexuality that doesn't make her romance compelling but how it was designed. If Bioware decides to make everyone bi, then I'd be ok with that, all players would get more options, all players would have access to the more developed romance options, but making only Suvi bi removes a gay main character and just gives straight male characters access to one more romance, when they already have access to 2 of the 3 romances people say are well-developed. I do think it's possible for a game to have characters with their own sexuality and to have all the romances well-developed. One of the things DA:I did very well were the romances, none of them felt like less development time was spent on them and they all seemed very appropriate to the character the player was romancing. It just requires time, commitment and funding. If representation is being such huge and first and foremost concern in storydriven videogame making (which makes me faceplam really hard) then just make a cryopods that are full of gays, lesbians transgenders and whatever (that player can choose to activate or not), hell give them an entire ark and optional quest to search for it in DLC, and be done with it. I gladly accept that in exchange for not being gated from interesting characters combinations simply because "inclusion" and "representation" sjw crap. Right now I feel that in terms of "representation" straight males got shafted, despite the supposed quantity of options. While gays and lesbians get hot and interesting Suvi and Gil, straight males get what? SheVanguard woman, and a creepy Angara that look like a gender-change surgery that went wrong. Now there are also "one size fits all": foolish Asari that for all things and purposes feels and sounds like she is not old enough to be romanced, boring Asaru journalist that tries hard to be Diana Allers but will never be even remotely as interesting and attractive as Allers was, and Turian that sounds like your mom and looks like your granny, but those I will not count since they available to everyone and we talking about strict straight/gay/lesbian romance options here. So in that perspective it is pretty much clear who got better romance options. It feels almost as intentional insult to straight players to get "represented" in a way it is ingame, which I guess should be no big surprise considering ppl like Manveer Heir were developing Andromeda. lol you are so funny, I'm sure you'd have been fine of Suvi were straight and Cora was gay and you totally wouldn't have been complaining that Cora had a sex scene and Suvi didn't. You realise that games are escapism for everyone, not just you. Marginalised players might have slurs thrown at them every day in the real world and they have as much right to escape all of that and play a game where you can be gay or black or a woman etc and no one cares. No one makes a big deal when their honey kisses them in public or cat calls them as they walk around the Nexus. Video games are not just for you. Story heavy video games are actually the best place for representation because they by their very nature have to have a cast of characters to interact with and those interactions are more interesting when they are not all variations on the same type of person. You're right though, Bioware should have segregated the LGBT people into different Cryo pods from the straight people so the player could only wake the straight people and create the heteronormative paradise they always wanted. /s
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Post by CrutchCricket on Apr 6, 2017 13:48:11 GMT
Representation != romance options. They are two completely separate things, so I don't understand why people always conflate the two. Representation just means having gay/bi/trans/black/asian/alien/whatever characters somewhere in the game. The number of women you get to bang has nothing to do with "straight representation". Or how about "who you get to bang has nothing to do with representation"? If there were no specific gay or lesbian romances but a prominent gay or lesbian NPC crucial to the plot, would that not count as "representation"? I really don't get the representation argument when levied against a bi hypothetical either. I mean what defines a homosexual character more: attraction, romance and sexual relations with a member of the same sex? Or an aversion to the opposite sex? I would think the latter, being a actual action would be more representative than the latter which at best is the absence of an action. Of course that only holds in playersexual cases (or if the romance is treated as such), not for explicitly in-universe bisexual characters as obviously those are very different definitions. Whether you should change an existing character, one way or another is I think, a separate issue.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 13:50:07 GMT
Scott would put some life into that lesbian death bed.
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Post by Crim on Apr 6, 2017 13:57:54 GMT
I haven't romanced Suvi so I don't know what it is like, but if her romance is unsatisfying then making her, in particular, bi won't help that all it will do is remove representation from the game. Making her bi doesn't make her romance more compelling. This isn't like DA2, which was designed around all 4 romance options being bi and so each were compelling. (Isabela is one of my favourite romances) It isn't Suvi's sexuality that doesn't make her romance compelling but how it was designed. If Bioware decides to make everyone bi, then I'd be ok with that, all players would get more options, all players would have access to the more developed romance options, but making only Suvi bi removes a gay main character and just gives straight male characters access to one more romance, when they already have access to 2 of the 3 romances people say are well-developed. I do think it's possible for a game to have characters with their own sexuality and to have all the romances well-developed. One of the things DA:I did very well were the romances, none of them felt like less development time was spent on them and they all seemed very appropriate to the character the player was romancing. It just requires time, commitment and funding. If representation is being such huge and first and foremost concern in storydriven videogame making (which makes me faceplam really hard) then just make a cryopods that are full of gays, lesbians transgenders and whatever (that player can choose to activate or not), hell give them an entire ark and optional quest to search for it in DLC, and be done with it. I gladly accept that in exchange for not being gated from interesting characters combinations simply because "inclusion" and "representation" sjw crap. Right now I feel that in terms of "representation" straight males got shafted, despite the supposed quantity of options. While gays and lesbians get hot and interesting Suvi and Gil, straight males get what? SheVanguard woman, and a creepy Angara that look like a gender-change surgery that went wrong. Now there are also "one size fits all": foolish Asari that for all things and purposes feels and sounds like she is not old enough to be romanced, boring Asaru journalist that tries hard to be Diana Allers but will never be even remotely as interesting and attractive as Allers was, and Turian that sounds like your mom and looks like your granny, but those I will not count since they available to everyone and we talking about strict straight/gay/lesbian romance options here. So in that perspective it is pretty much clear who got better romance options. It feels almost as intentional insult to straight players to get "represented" in a way it is ingame, which I guess should be no big surprise considering ppl like Manveer Heir were developing Andromeda. ROFL, we'll excuse us queers for existing. TL;DR version... Your complaint is a preference complaint, straight Scott has bountiful options, got shafted my ass. Tough titties if you don't like em. I wanted Cora, we can't always get what we want. *I need to stop taking this thread srsly*
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 6, 2017 13:58:43 GMT
If representation is being such huge and first and foremost concern in storydriven videogame making (which makes me faceplam really hard) then just make a cryopods that are full of gays, lesbians transgenders and whatever (that player can choose to activate or not), hell give them an entire ark and optional quest to search for it in DLC, and be done with it. I gladly accept that in exchange for not being gated from interesting characters combinations simply because "inclusion" and "representation" sjw crap. Right now I feel that in terms of "representation" straight males got shafted, despite the supposed quantity of options. While gays and lesbians get hot and interesting Suvi and Gil, straight males get what? SheVanguard woman, and a creepy Angara that look like a gender-change surgery that went wrong. Now there are also "one size fits all": foolish Asari that for all things and purposes feels and sounds like she is not old enough to be romanced, boring Asaru journalist that tries hard to be Diana Allers but will never be even remotely as interesting and attractive as Allers was, and Turian that sounds like your mom and looks like your granny, but those I will not count since they available to everyone and we talking about strict straight/gay/lesbian romance options here. So in that perspective it is pretty much clear who got better romance options. It feels almost as intentional insult to straight players to get "represented" in a way it is ingame, which I guess should be no big surprise considering ppl like Manveer Heir were developing Andromeda. lol you are so funny, I'm sure you'd have been fine of Suvi were straight and Cora was gay and you totally wouldn't have been complaining that Cora had a sex scene and Suvi didn't. You realise that games are escapism for everyone, not just you. Marginalised players might have slurs thrown at them every day in the real world and they have as much right to escape all of that and play a game where you can be gay or black or a woman etc and no one cares. No one makes a big deal when their honey kisses them in public or cat calls them as they walk around the Nexus. Video games are not just for you. Story heavy video games are actually the best place for representation because they by their very nature have to have a cast of characters to interact with and those interactions are more interesting when they are not all variations on the same type of person. You're right though, Bioware should have segregated the LGBT people into different Cryo pods from the straight people so the player could only wake the straight people and create the heteronormative paradise they always wanted. /s lol you are so funny trying to put so much emphasis on a sex scenes, which happens that I really don't care about. If I want to watch sex scenes on screen, I go watch porn - much better animation and visual quality there. What many ppl want in context of Suvi is a romance option that feels interesting and attractive, instead of being a choice of "lesser evil" in which a "no romance at all" option probably wins. Look at original trilogy - it virtually had no sex scenes, yet romances there felt so much more satisfying to what we get in Andromeda, because availible characters were likable, interesting and felt genuine in their feelings. You realize that in a year we live in, nobody really cares who kisses whom, except maybe those ppl that kiss. At least in a western world. So saying that videogames are the only means of escaping the world to be "yourself" cant be any farther from the real life, and sound as yet another sjw excuse to push their agenda. As I stated in some other thread and to put it short - the main cause of things like racism are ppl that constantly complain and talk about it. Storyheavy games are best for telling a good story. When all unneeded "inclusiveness" and "representation" sjw crap gets forcibly pushed in at expense of good storytelling and character writing, then it makes game political-agenda-heavy, and not storyheavy. Thats why BW games get worse with each new installment. Their previous games were all about stories and characters while also being inclusive enough without that inclusion being shoved into players face, which ultimately lead to a believable world and characters inhabiting it. Now it is becoming more and more about showing how much gayness they can squeeze into gay and trans characters, and how many of those can be squeezed into a game without it becoming an lgbt simulator. As for the cryopods, notice how it was actually your idea about waking certain pods based on their sexual orientation and gender.... Typical, I must say.... But I also must ask, what stopping you from waking only "gaypods" and making it YOUR lgbt paradise, instead of instantly victimizing yourself? Talk about double standards...
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Post by Crim on Apr 6, 2017 14:04:14 GMT
Scott would put some life into that lesbian death bed. Lesbians don't like teh D sweet cheeks. But kudos to you on being gross, again.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Apr 6, 2017 14:05:01 GMT
I am much more in favor of gating romance options based on a player's actual decisions within the game rather than their character's gender. So, basically, make everyone bi, and make choices matter. Now that would add an interesting twist.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 14:07:49 GMT
Scott would put some life into that lesbian death bed. Lesbians don't like teh D sweet cheeks. But kudos to you on being gross, again. The argument of the fade to black demonstrating LBD that was being pitched was convincing. Scott would be the natural forward thinking solution.
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Post by Crim on Apr 6, 2017 14:10:53 GMT
Lesbians don't like teh D sweet cheeks. But kudos to you on being gross, again. The argument of the fade to black demonstrating LBD that was being pitched was convincing. Scott would be the natural forward thinking solution. Being pitched, by who? Sounds like that's all on you boo.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 6, 2017 14:11:26 GMT
Representation != romance options. They are two completely separate things, so I don't understand why people always conflate the two. Representation just means having gay/bi/trans/black/asian/alien/whatever characters somewhere in the game. The number of women you get to bang has nothing to do with "straight representation". Or how about "who you get to bang has nothing to do with representation"? If there were no specific gay or lesbian romances but a prominent gay or lesbian NPC crucial to the plot, would that not count as "representation"? I really don't get the representation argument when levied against a bi hypothetical either. I mean what defines a homosexual character more: attraction, romance and sexual relations with a member of the same sex? Or an aversion to the opposite sex? I would think the latter, being a actual action would be more representative than the latter which at best is the absence of an action. Of course that only holds in playersexual cases (or if the romance is treated as such), not for explicitly in-universe bisexual characters as obviously those are very different definitions. Whether you should change an existing character, one way or another is I think, a separate issue. Of course it applies to gay, lesbian and bi characters as well, I only used that example because the person I was replying to was specifically talking about how they felt straight guys had bad representation because he didn't like Scotts female romance options. I've always said that representation and equal romance options are at odds with each other, as having all of the LI's be bi or playersexual would give everyone the same number of options, but would also be absolutely awful for representation because it would only represent bisexual people. It's one of the reasons why why the conversation surround Andromeda's LGB content is difficult. The game is great at LBG representation, with a large number of well handled gay and bisexual NPC's, but the actual m/m romance situation is awful. That's why it's important to acknowledge that they are two separate issues, and that just because one is handled well doesn't automatically mean the other is. And vice-versa of course.
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 6, 2017 14:14:04 GMT
lol you are so funny, I'm sure you'd have been fine of Suvi were straight and Cora was gay and you totally wouldn't have been complaining that Cora had a sex scene and Suvi didn't. You realise that games are escapism for everyone, not just you. Marginalised players might have slurs thrown at them every day in the real world and they have as much right to escape all of that and play a game where you can be gay or black or a woman etc and no one cares. No one makes a big deal when their honey kisses them in public or cat calls them as they walk around the Nexus. Video games are not just for you. Story heavy video games are actually the best place for representation because they by their very nature have to have a cast of characters to interact with and those interactions are more interesting when they are not all variations on the same type of person. You're right though, Bioware should have segregated the LGBT people into different Cryo pods from the straight people so the player could only wake the straight people and create the heteronormative paradise they always wanted. /s lol you are so funny trying to put so much emphasis on a sex scenes, which happens that I really don't care about. If I want to watch sex scenes on screen, I go watch porn - much better animation and visual quality there. What many ppl want in context of Suvi is a romance option that feels interesting and attractive, instead of being a choice of "lesser evil" in which a "no romance at all" option probably wins. Look at original trilogy - it virtually had no sex scenes, yet romances there felt so much more satisfying to what we get in Andromeda, because availible characters were likable, interesting and felt genuine in their feelings. You realize that in a year we live in, nobody really cares who kisses whom, except maybe those ppl that kiss. At least in a western world. So saying that videogames are the only means of escaping the world to be "yourself" cant be any farther from the real life, and sound as yet another sjw excuse to push their agenda. As I stated in some other thread and to put it short - the main cause of things like racism are ppl that constantly complain and talk about it. Storyheavy games are best for telling a good story. When all unneeded "inclusiveness" and "representation" sjw crap gets forcibly pushed in at expense of good storytelling and character writing, then it makes game political-agenda-heavy, and not storyheavy. Thats why BW games get worse with each new installment. Their previous games were all about stories and characters while also being inclusive enough without that inclusion being shoved into players face, which ultimately lead to a believable world and characters inhabiting it. Now it is becoming more and more about showing how much gayness they can squeeze into gay and trans characters, and how many of those can be squeezed into a game without it becoming an lgbt simulator. As for the cryopods, notice how it was actually your idea about waking certain pods based on their sexual orientation and gender.... Typical, I must say.... But I also must ask, what stopping you from waking only "gaypods" and making it YOUR lgbt paradise, instead of instantly victimizing yourself? Talk about double standards... Did you read what you wrote? you were referring to the cryo pods -this was your idea. Do you actually believe this? because homophobic attacks are still a big thing. It is still possible to be fired for being gay in many places in the west and some western countries don't allow gay marriage. Unneeded inclusiveness? Please tell me the types of characters allowed in a story - only straight characters? are black people allowed in stories? women? Are you the arbitrator of which characters 'fit' in a story or is the author? If an author says to themselves - I think I make this character gay to add a bit of variety - is that allowed or should they submit this idea to a governing body to make sure that this character is not being included for the 'wrong reasons' Are you really this afraid/angry if everything is not about you?
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