Make Suvi Bi

Not dear, that was your idea. Your idea was to segregate people because on their sexual orientation. Just because you didn't use the word segregation doesn't mean that is not what you wanted. Don't try to weasel out of your assertions. the player choosing if they can wake up gay people or not is segregation. that is your idea. 


Oh you've lived in three whole countries in Europe - you must be an expert. Three EU countries encompassed the entirety of "the west" Only thirteen European countries allow gay marriage and there are 28 member states. Australia doesn't have gay marriage and is experiencing an upsurge in homophobia has people campaign for it. You can still be fired for being gay in many US states. I'm from Ireland, a country that is on paper very LBGT friendly and I still know people whose parents who've disowned them and who experience verbal attacks. I've also heard verbal attacks on people in other EU countries too, not too much in the bigger cities, but it's all definitely still there. 



Do you think only gay people get naked? That is how this sentence is structured. How does a person "push their gayness" on to someone? 



And why can't those characters be gay? I'm not building my arguments around a character being gay, I'm saying representation matters. Being a good well-ground character and being a gay character are not mutually exclusive.  I'm saying that it is important to have gay characters (who are well-rounded and good, which should go without saying because no one wants crappy characters) because gay people exist and media should reflect that and include them. 

I remember when I flirted with Peebee once about going to her room.

Next time I talked with Cora?

"PEEBEE? REALLY?"

I mean, I was like, "Girl, you've been hot and cold with me all the time we've been here. Give me a straight answer because it is COLD in space."

That wouldn't end well, though.

On a serious note, which is more important:

1. Representation

2. Options for players (gay or straight)

I say that as Playersexual characters got a lot of flack but they did resolve a lot of problems for both sides.

Cassandra and Cora
Liam and Jaal

And so on all being bi would offer a lot more to gamers.

I admit, that was an interesting case in Fallout: New Vegas.

Arcade, Veronica, Boone, and Cass all FELT like Love Interest characters.

But none of them were.

Despite two being gay, one straight, and one bi.

Exactly, something, like they talk about a previous relationship during banter with another squadmate or the player can try and flirt with them but are rejected because of a current partner or because they fancy someone else. There are ways to bring up a person's sexuality in a way that doesn't feel silly. 

It's just easier to do it if the person is an LI, which is why I suppose Bioware goes that route. Personally, I'd love for there to be a non-romanceable main gay character.

I'm reminded of the David Anderson Mass Effect novel.

"A lot of people said Asari had no gender. Those people were idiots. They were all beautiful women to him."

But asari tho, everyone likes them, right? The ME team seems to think so. 

Hating on Cora, boo sir, she's wonderful.

except unlike PB looking lik a guy with some femenine streak, Reyes and Gil do not look even remotely as chicks, so there might be a problem with a suspension of disbelief. 

I wonder what bobble you live in, if it never occurred to you that some ppl advocating against something might be actually biggest benefactor of that something. Welcome to the real world. Oh, and yes, i am great at parties.
Damn, today must be a real turn around for your world - so much new out of a sudden...



Thats a biggest bullshit I have heard today, and I already read daily news. Gay marriage laws have nothing to do with ppl being less homophoiobic, actually reverse statement can be true - sudden institution of gay marriage may turn some ppl more violent towards gay couples because they might feel their traditional values are being threatened, especailly considering that things like national referendum are more of exception than a general rule when it comes to accepting laws about gay marriages. Most of the time nobody really asks or cares what a common Joe thinks, which often leads to violence, because as I sad - that proverbial Joe feels being trumped upon by sjw agenda or whatever. Not to mention the lack of objectivity of such referendums if one happens, considering that bulk of the voters there will be lgbt and sjw-ilk, following by ppl who will vote against, while many simply don't care - look at turnout number of your Irish referendum as example. But even then, if legalizing gay marriages had such a beneficial effect as you imply here, then you would not be here complaning about homophobia where you live in the first place - go reread what you wrote couple of posts ago. So no, as much as you want to delude yourself with that, allowing gay marriages does not suddenly makes all people less homophobic.



Again, I must send you rereading that post of mine untill you understand that pushing gayness, talking about how gays are better than straight, and walking naked on a balcony waving his dick at people below in a situation, when it was absolutely and inexcusably obvious that it will cause outrage, and then complaining about homophobia which has nothing to do with that, are three separate points and not the single occasion where he was pushing his gayness naked from balcony while shouting that gays are better than straights. Go, read, reread, and comprehend. Seriously, are you doing this on purpose? Because, and I mean no offence, but the longer I talk to you, the more it starting to feel like I am trying to explain how ppl are made to 3 y.o. In other words, are you playing dumb on purpose just to troll me, or you seriously do not understand what I am saying?  In any of those case, I will strongly suggest that we just agree to disagree and end this conversation, because it starts more and more feel like a waste of time, rather than a passionate exchange of opinions. Thinking in game terms - now you being complete opposite of Suvi.... just a perspective.


Good character can be gay, but it will have nothing to do with his or her gayness. In case of Suvi - Representation is not a character trait, its not soemthing that makes character, it is a political and societal move. So having Suvi gay just for thew sake of "hey look, we are so inclusive, we have gay female wohoo!!" does not make her a better character, but only a little bit worse because it is gating other players from having a straight romance option with her. Maybe you stubbornly keep misunderstanding me, but ppl suggest to make Suvi "Bi", they do not mean that her character should essentially be made to be bisexual, but instead ppl just want her to be romancable by both genders, to make their own Mass Effect story, where Suvi can be any sex they want. Would it really hurt you that somebody can have his staright Suvi, while you could build your little gay paradise on board of tempest? 

Last but not least, BW doesn't give a jack about you, me, or representation, or inclusiveness. They only do this so they can earn more money from ppl like you, and to get wider coverage in press for free, where half of lgbt community chirping about how inclusive BW games are. It only business and politics. So think about it next time when you try to come up with Representation argument.

Anyhow, I strongly suggest to reread my post at least twice before you decide to reply me.

As Suvi currently stands, it's actually more limiting for someone interested in f/f romance options, considering how lackluster her romance is. If everybody was bi, then f/f would have more options that are better developed and provide more content. This is less about straight male Ryder getting more options, and more about everybody getting more options. Cora and Peebee are two of the best romances, and obviously straight male Ryder has both of those.

I'm not suggesting that just switching Suvi to bi will make her romance more compelling. I think additional dialogue would need to be incorporated in order to bring more value to her romance, considering it's lacking as it currently stands. I agree with you that the design of her character (and more so lack of content) is at fault. Her sexuality is just a gate and a limiter for those who may have wanted to pursue her. Truth be told, there was never any dedicated dialogue that I could see where Suvi ever suggested a preference one way or the other. She just outright rejects male Ryder for "professional reasons" and that's the end of it.

I'm not looking to make one character bi. I want every character that is a romance option to be bi. That is the only way BioWare can truly provide equal content and equal treatment for all genders and preferences. I agree that straight male characters already benefit the most. This is less so about straight male character options and more so about options for everybody.

I will agree that overall content and care felt better-executed in DAI. I didn't personally care for my options (Cassandra and Josephine), but I will say that BioWare put a lot more effort across the board for everybody. That still doesn't resolve the issue that some characters you like will just outright reject you. BioWare games are about player choice, and I believe romances should also facilitate our own personal world state and allowing us to choose who we want to pursue.

I don't know why MEA faltered with regard to romances, but I can only assume they just aren't a high priority. Jaal, Peebee, and Cora were the only ones BioWare really put effort into (and that's just the sex scene). Beyond just that, the amount of dialogue and even the immersion that you are in a relationship is just lacking. DAI did a much better job with romances and it's really disappointing.

Please for the love of Jaardan, make Suvi Bisexual.

The funny thing is, as everything points out Suvi was designed as another option for straight men and only 'locked' for women within last few months. Although her writer denied it, she couldn't say anything about the fact that official Prima guide accidentally showed that originally (as those guides are based on a little earlier build sent by developers) Suvi was romanceable by male Ryder:


This also would explain why Suvi has no dialogue that would indicate she even likes women. For comparison, all the other non-bisexual romance options - Gil, Cora and Liam - tell you right away that they like men/women only. Meanwhile all she says to a guy hitting on her is "I prefer to keep it professional". Oh, and you wouldn't hear anything indicating what her sexuality is even when you romance her.

But that also invalidates your point. Suvi most likely was just another, sixth option created for straight men. She was never written as a lesbian, there was apparently no lesbian character planned for this game at all. Perhaps at some point someone realized it would get them a lot of flak, or perhaps they were concerned how would it look like if Scott could bang all the women in Andromeda. So the remedy was artificially locking for women one of the female characters intended for Scott.

Out of all options created for straight men (excluding the 2 flings that don't count as romances), Suvi had the most limited, tiny content. This seems to be the only reason why she was the one chosen as this pseudo "lesbian" option.