inherit
3439
0
9,688
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2017 18:24:49 GMT
Even if that's true, this just means that if you do all the sidequests your score will deteriorate less.It can't ever improve, and the only to stop the deterioration is to play straight P or R. Not necessarily. If you enter Omega at, say 40% each P/R (the other 20% of the point earning opportunities were spent on neutral options) and you used 100% of the point earning opportunities on Omega, you'd increase your scores a bit. You're right. I was confused by experiencing the import bonus points running out on me; that bonus is the only thing allowing most of my Shepards to pass the harder ME2 checks.
|
|
inherit
6799
0
Jul 11, 2017 11:39:13 GMT
948
toomanyclouds
249
April 2017
toomanyclouds
|
Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 10, 2017 18:53:51 GMT
This ^ DAO shits all over DA2, DAI and all of ME in terms of roleplaying. The downside of this was that the Warden was a blank-faced mute staring awkwardly at their conversation partners who couldn't even have expressions because they might have conflicted with the great range of possible personalities. I always thought DA:O was a pretty good example of why this kind of RPG is quite difficult to do when your characters are more than a little portrait in the corner of a text box, or a polygon/pixel block (in those games, immersion through graphics wasn't an issue yet). When the camera actually swings back around to the lovingly animated person pointedly not participating in the conversation they are supposedly having, it gets weird. If we could have that range of possible choices with appropriate voice acting and facial animations, that would of course be the dream, but that might be too much to ask. ME:A was more for a DA:I style of conversation options, and I think that's a good idea because DA:I had a lot going for it. You usually had at least three distinctive personality types (friendly/jokey/aggressive-to the point) for most answer options and sometimes a 5 option wheel of different emotional reactions. Adding to that, you could put points in knowledge perks and unlock conversation options that way every once in a (rare) while and then there were class and race specific conversation options. All that made sure that the Inquisitors could really feel quite distinctive, even if you made the same basic choices in quests. ME:A just doesn't have that range and neither did the OT, but the OT at least had the feature that the two conversation options you had were usually very different and consequently painted very different pictures of Shepard, which you really can't accuse ME:A of most of the time. I would have liked to have seen what this game would have looked like in the dialogue wheel department if they had gotten another year of development time to record additional Ryder voice lines and NPC reactions. DA:I had my favourite of the voiced dialogue wheels so far and I would have loved to have played an ME game with that level of choice and potential for mix-and-match. If we actually could have had all 4 options most of the time and logical and professional wouldn't have basically been the same thing, maybe with one of them being replaced with something more abrasive or hot-headed for greater role-playing potential, imagine how fun that would have been. As it is, it just feels like I'm looking at some sort of lackluster alpha version of DA:I's conversation system. At that point, just go full Witcher and don't even pretend the character is hugely customisable anymore, it'll make it look less like a frustrating inbetween.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Apr 10, 2017 18:58:24 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying.
|
|
inherit
6799
0
Jul 11, 2017 11:39:13 GMT
948
toomanyclouds
249
April 2017
toomanyclouds
|
Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 10, 2017 19:03:54 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying. For me, it was actually immersion-breaking at that point. If the whole dialogue had been text, that would have been fine, but if the other character is moving and animated and the voice actor is going for it, to have no reaction from the player character was odd, it took me out of the conversations and the roleplaying to see the Warden stand there like a zombie, giving zero indication of the detailed personality I had supposedly infused them with. However, that is taste because you are right, the roleplaying was more varied and I do miss that.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
37,069
colfoley
19,174
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2017 19:05:27 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying. yet that makes harder to role play for me because there is no voice to emulate or immerse myself in and build a character around. At point might as well do a self insert which is boring.
|
|
rpgmaster
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 220 Likes: 483
inherit
6259
0
Oct 18, 2017 22:12:20 GMT
483
rpgmaster
220
March 2017
rpgmaster
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by rpgmaster on Apr 10, 2017 20:03:25 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying. For me, it was actually immersion-breaking at that point. If the whole dialogue had been text, that would have been fine, but if the other character is moving and animated and the voice actor is going for it, to have no reaction from the player character was odd, it took me out of the conversations and the roleplaying to see the Warden stand there like a zombie, giving zero indication of the detailed personality I had supposedly infused them with. However, that is taste because you are right, the roleplaying was more varied and I do miss that. It's no more immersion breaking than voiced protags saying things that go against the paraphrase you selected, or auto-dialogue.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
37,069
colfoley
19,174
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2017 20:19:38 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondered where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,299 Likes: 50,677
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,677
Iakus
21,299
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Apr 10, 2017 20:30:52 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondere d where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you. NOT a happy camper, let me tell you. If Shepard ever actually reflected what I wanted him to be, it was a happy coincidence. ME3 was a garbage fire, and not just because of the endings.
|
|
rpgmaster
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 220 Likes: 483
inherit
6259
0
Oct 18, 2017 22:12:20 GMT
483
rpgmaster
220
March 2017
rpgmaster
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by rpgmaster on Apr 10, 2017 20:52:35 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondered where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you. ME3 is not the standard a ME game should be set against. Just because ME3 did it does not make it acceptable that ME:A or any future ME games do it.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
37,069
colfoley
19,174
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2017 21:01:40 GMT
There's the thing though. If you compare Ryder to ME 1 or especially ME 2 it's dealers choice which is the easier to role play...but ME 3? not even close
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,688
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2017 21:29:43 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondered where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you. People complained about those moments quite a bit, and deservedly so.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,688
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2017 21:33:01 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying. I still don't see how I have more control, except to the extent that a non-voiced PC might have more lines available because unvoiced is cheap. All we ever have are the prewritten lines.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Apr 10, 2017 22:41:20 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying.
If you find the cinematic style more immersive and/or prefer the PC to be more defined that's your preference, good for you and all, but it still restricts the control you have over the PC's personality.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1818
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 22:45:57 GMT
It's less "cinematic" sure. But you have way more control over your avatar's personality, which is by far the most important aspect of roleplaying. For me, it was actually immersion-breaking at that point. If the whole dialogue had been text, that would have been fine, but if the other character is moving and animated and the voice actor is going for it, to have no reaction from the player character was odd, it took me out of the conversations and the roleplaying to see the Warden stand there like a zombie, giving zero indication of the detailed personality I had supposedly infused them with. However, that is taste because you are right, the roleplaying was more varied and I do miss that. I wasn't bothered by that, probably because I mostly looked at the conversation partner during those scenes. The issue could go away if they'd just do conversations from a first person camera.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,688
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2017 23:09:08 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying. I have not had problems with the paraphrases myself, and the amount of additional lines for an unvoiced protagonist is typically marginal.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Apr 10, 2017 23:24:49 GMT
Like I said, if you prefer it good for you.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
37,069
colfoley
19,174
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2017 23:27:43 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying. I have not had problems with the paraphrases myself, and the amount of additional lines for an unvoiced protagonist is typically marginal. couldn't have said i better myself. The auto dialogue has never been character defining in Andromeda.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 23:32:05 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondered where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you. I was right here (I mean, right there in the original BSN), fighting in the frontlines against it. And yes, they took away too much of our control in that game. You see, TIM was right, why kill dialogue options when you can control your character? Roleplaying is key for me. Doominike , you are absolutely right, if the autodialogue happened a lot less and was more intelligent, I wouldn't have so much trouble with it. But it was filled with the most stupid lines ever: "The Citadel? The fight's here!" - "I'm here visiting a friend who got hurt protecting me..." (No, I'm here to see you Thane) - "Here, we have the key to finding the Catalyst and maybe winning the war, but we didn't give you until now because we weren't attacked" (asari councilor) ... "okay", and later "We didn't get the information, I'm sorry." - Trusting Brooks right off the bat... - Not being able to agree with the Illusive Man, or call on his bullshit at the start... There are so many moments, oh man. Shepard's IQ dropped 40 points in that game (not that it was that high in the first two games, but still...). And LOTSB (in ME2) started a very sharp decline in dialogue quality, imo.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:26:57 GMT
37,069
colfoley
19,174
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2017 23:41:16 GMT
In reading this thread I've often wondered where everyone was when Shepard was forced into being a bluberry mess or a bi polar blubbery mess in ME 3. I mean if MEA is NOT an RPG then what does that make ME 3? A game that took control of the role playing character you'd spent the last two games forging...and took it away from you. I was right here (I mean, right there in the original BSN), fighting in the frontlines against it. And yes, they took away too much of our control in that game. You see, TIM was right, why kill when you can control? Roleplaying is key for me. it is for me too...but i maintain that's why i like Ryder/ mea more then the trilogy/Shepard...in this respect anyways.
|
|
inherit
Warning Points: 1
3116
0
Aug 28, 2024 23:38:02 GMT
8,041
vonuber
2,580
January 2017
vonuber
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by vonuber on Apr 10, 2017 23:56:17 GMT
One of the worst parts of ME3 is the intro: 1) why am I here and why is that kid on a rooftop 2) who is this dude? 3) where's liara? Garrus? 4) when do I get control? 5) no, really, who is this guy? 6) kaidan? I thought I cremated you. Oh well 7) can I actually do something now? 8) anyone? This guy? Why am I supposed to know him? Liara? Garrus? Anyone? Even Jacob? 9) WHY AM I NOT ALLOWED TO CONTROL MY CHARACTER AND WHO IS THIS GUY 10) "We fight or we die?" I hope they don't complain about dialogue in a sequel after that little gem 11) Shep why are you running like a gorilla 12) shut up Anderson
And the only way was up from there really.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,688
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,066
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2017 0:36:54 GMT
Like I said, if you prefer it good for you. Missed the point. I was saying that of the three problems you mentioned, one was nonexistent and one happened very infrequently. These are not questions of taste.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Apr 11, 2017 3:25:22 GMT
Silent blank slate gives more control over the PC's personality than semi-preset and voiced with auto-dialogue, period. If you prefer the latter that's fine, but you can't argue that you lose control that way.
|
|
bacon4breakfast
N3
signup.hellokittyonline.com
Origin:
Posts: 954 Likes: 4,300
inherit
4032
0
Apr 17, 2017 22:28:21 GMT
4,300
bacon4breakfast
signup.hellokittyonline.com
954
March 2017
bacon
|
Post by bacon4breakfast on Apr 11, 2017 4:55:02 GMT
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!
|
|
correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,274
inherit
Dr Obfuscate
807
0
Aug 16, 2024 21:14:41 GMT
5,274
correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,831
August 2016
correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
|
Post by correctamundo on Apr 11, 2017 5:16:17 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying. If you find the cinematic style more immersive and/or prefer the PC to be more defined that's your preference, good for you and all, but it still restricts the control you have over the PC's personality. Not really. If you find written lines more immersive and/or prefer the PC to be a mute, emotionless automaton that's your preference. Good for you. Still that is not what the op is asking for. You gain some lines but lose so much expression. It's a compromise. It will always be a compromise but I don't see how how a mute PC is objectively superior for role-playing. I have been into role-playing for circa 35 yrs now and have done all sorts of variants on the theme. I have my favourites but I wouldn't call any of them ohjectively superior.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2543
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 30, 2024 10:46:10 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 5:40:20 GMT
But this has always been part of the Mass Effect series. So why is it an issue now? It's always been an issue. It's just disappointing that Bioware is still not dealing with it. ME2: Shepard was an emotionless zombie ME3: Shepard is an emotionally fragile basket case MEA: Ryder is the star of a sitcom Shouldn't we as players have more say in the character's emotional state and preferences in a role-playing game? Honestly... no. It's a story driven game first. If you really want to write your own character, write a book... don't play a story driven game. It's not up to the game to "live up to" the genre category other people stuff it into. The game is what the game is... which is less of a role playing game than other role playing games. Some of us happen to like how Bioware manages their games. The level of "role playing" is fine for me. The level of "action" is fine for me... and I have absolutely no problem with Bioware writing their story. I'm happy playing within the range they set for their character to fit within the story they write. I can role play within that range... and discover all the little bits of extra and hidden dialogue they insert by role playing within that range a little differently each time. It's a fun game... key word... game.
|
|