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Post by iTz JoNeSy on Apr 11, 2017 6:10:05 GMT
I told my self Ryder is shephards son. It didn't work.. The game got more drunk than halo 5. We travelled all that way to live inside a football. DLC will probably introduce hogwarts Castle. I enjoyed the game but it ain't got SHIT on the old trilogy. Call it a wipe because I'll never love this new story. If the citadel, a mass relay and Normandy turned up, then I'll like it. I wonder what the Normandy looks like after 600 years? 🤔 And the citadel 🤔 Pretty dumb that I spent all that time saving all you ugly bastards and don't even get a look at the milky way again.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2017 7:25:02 GMT
Silent blank slate gives more control over the PC's personality than semi-preset and voiced with auto-dialogue, period. If you prefer the latter that's fine, but you can't argue that you lose control that way. You have not made that case. Again, the only significant issue you raised was autodialogue, which doesn't necessarily come with a voiced PC. ME1 didn't do it much, if at all.
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Post by shermos on Apr 11, 2017 7:27:12 GMT
Andromeda was trying to do two contradictory things with the PC. Players were allowed a degree of customisation with Ryder, yet our parents were locked in and personalisation throughout the game was very limited. For example, I hate Liam and would chuck him off my team after his extremely unprofessional behaviour on Habitat 7, yet the game locks Ryder into being friends with him. Everyone had their Ryder railroaded along the same general line the writers wanted to go in. You either start with a blank slate and build from there, or you go with a model similar to the Witcher. You can't do both.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2017 7:29:49 GMT
Andromeda was trying to do two contradictory things at once with the PC. Players were allowed a degree of customisation with Ryder, yet our parents were locked in and personalisation throughout the game was very limited. For example, I hate Liam and would chuck him off my team after his extremely unprofessional behaviour on Habitat 7, yet the game locks Ryder into being friends with him. Everyone had their Ryder railroaded along the same general line the writers wanted to go in. You either start with a blank slate and build from there, or you go with a model similar to the Witcher. You can't do both. Your Ryder was railroaded into being friends with Liam? Kind of funny. Mine hates the guy and is not friends with him. A point that is actually reflected in the 'journey so far' part of the codex.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 11, 2017 7:39:56 GMT
Same thing happened in the MET though, unless you deliberately metagame to kill them or not hire them, but even then you don't have a choice with a lot of them (and the ones you can kill or ignore open up a whole load of other issues down the line for the game and other players).
Take Joker- he got shep killed at he start of ME2, yet we can't get rid of him? How about kicking Miranda and Jacob off? Vega? Liara?
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Post by colfoley on Apr 11, 2017 7:42:15 GMT
I may be really alone but I really liked Vega. My second favorite squadmate behind Garrus.
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ioannisdenton
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Apr 11, 2017 9:50:56 GMT
In the first hour alone the auto-dialog completely torpedoed my attempts to RP about a dozen times. The (endless) auto-dialog between Ryder and Liam even creates a completely different character I was trying to play from the rather limited options I had from dialogue choices. If you are trying to play Ryder as anything but a joker, you're ****ed. So many forced attempts as humour my character wouldn't say! Being buddy buddy with a guy he doesn't know even though I want him to be detached and annoy ed at his situation.
Apart from the "we're explorers" stuff, there hasn't been any way for you to indicate why you came on this trip in the first place. Surely this is the most important RP question to ask in the opening of the game? Were we forced by daddy? Did we genuinely want to come? ME has never been perfect at RP obviously. Although IIRC there in ME1 there is only ONE use of auto-dialog from Shepard (a neutral line in the descent to Ilos), so hand-waving character contradictions was a lot easier. But ME:A takes it to a new low. Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist.
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helios969
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on Apr 11, 2017 10:06:16 GMT
In the first hour alone the auto-dialog completely torpedoed my attempts to RP about a dozen times. The (endless) auto-dialog between Ryder and Liam even creates a completely different character I was trying to play from the rather limited options I had from dialogue choices. If you are trying to play Ryder as anything but a joker, you're ****ed. So many forced attempts as humour my character wouldn't say! Being buddy buddy with a guy he doesn't know even though I want him to be detached and annoy ed at his situation.
Apart from the "we're explorers" stuff, there hasn't been any way for you to indicate why you came on this trip in the first place. Surely this is the most important RP question to ask in the opening of the game? Were we forced by daddy? Did we genuinely want to come? ME has never been perfect at RP obviously. Although IIRC there in ME1 there is only ONE use of auto-dialog from Shepard (a neutral line in the descent to Ilos), so hand-waving character contradictions was a lot easier. But ME:A takes it to a new low. Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist. Yep, excellent game, but it's more like playing a Naughty Dog game with the ability to make some choices along the way.
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 11, 2017 10:44:57 GMT
In the first hour alone the auto-dialog completely torpedoed my attempts to RP about a dozen times. The (endless) auto-dialog between Ryder and Liam even creates a completely different character I was trying to play from the rather limited options I had from dialogue choices. If you are trying to play Ryder as anything but a joker, you're ****ed. So many forced attempts as humour my character wouldn't say! Being buddy buddy with a guy he doesn't know even though I want him to be detached and annoy ed at his situation.
Apart from the "we're explorers" stuff, there hasn't been any way for you to indicate why you came on this trip in the first place. Surely this is the most important RP question to ask in the opening of the game? Were we forced by daddy? Did we genuinely want to come? ME has never been perfect at RP obviously. Although IIRC there in ME1 there is only ONE use of auto-dialog from Shepard (a neutral line in the descent to Ilos), so hand-waving character contradictions was a lot easier. But ME:A takes it to a new low. Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist. If roleplay is the only concern, then we start with any of Bethesdas open world RPGs of a past decade...
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Post by Panda on Apr 11, 2017 15:15:53 GMT
In the first hour alone the auto-dialog completely torpedoed my attempts to RP about a dozen times. The (endless) auto-dialog between Ryder and Liam even creates a completely different character I was trying to play from the rather limited options I had from dialogue choices. If you are trying to play Ryder as anything but a joker, you're ****ed. So many forced attempts as humour my character wouldn't say! Being buddy buddy with a guy he doesn't know even though I want him to be detached and annoy ed at his situation.
Apart from the "we're explorers" stuff, there hasn't been any way for you to indicate why you came on this trip in the first place. Surely this is the most important RP question to ask in the opening of the game? Were we forced by daddy? Did we genuinely want to come? ME has never been perfect at RP obviously. Although IIRC there in ME1 there is only ONE use of auto-dialog from Shepard (a neutral line in the descent to Ilos), so hand-waving character contradictions was a lot easier. But ME:A takes it to a new low. Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist. Geralt is set protagonist, Witcher is like opposite of Bioware's create your own protagonist story.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2017 15:25:34 GMT
Andromeda was trying to do two contradictory things with the PC. Players were allowed a degree of customisation with Ryder, yet our parents were locked in and personalisation throughout the game was very limited. For example, I hate Liam and would chuck him off my team after his extremely unprofessional behaviour on Habitat 7, yet the game locks Ryder into being friends with him. Everyone had their Ryder railroaded along the same general line the writers wanted to go in. You either start with a blank slate and build from there, or you go with a model similar to the Witcher. You can't do both. Isn't that how ME has always handled most squadmate relationships?
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 11, 2017 15:46:11 GMT
Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist. Geralt is set protagonist, Witcher is like opposite of Bioware's create your own protagonist story. Geralt, Shepard, and Ryder really aren't all the different in setup. Certainly not opposites. A create your own protagonist would be more the Champion of Cyrodiil in Oblivion (even the Dragonborn in Skyrim was knocked on by Bethesda fans for being too pre-defined in terms of their RPG's). A character that is just dropped into the story and allows you to define them. This has never really been the way Bioware does it.
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ioannisdenton
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Apr 11, 2017 15:51:46 GMT
Can you name me a AAA rpg where you can roleplay as much as in bioware games? as fantastic as even withcer 3 was i always felt Geralt was way more predefined than any bioware protagonist. If roleplay is the only concern, then we start with any of Bethesdas open world RPGs of a past decade... bethesda rpgs i dont touch even with a 10 feet pole. too uninspiring stories for my tastes, too many bugs (but somehow andromeda got shafted whereas bethesda was always like this) and i quit playing them at 50 hour mark. (oblivion, fallout3 that was, have not played skyrim nor Fo4)
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 11, 2017 16:09:16 GMT
If roleplay is the only concern, then we start with any of Bethesdas open world RPGs of a past decade... bethesda rpgs i dont touch even with a 10 feet pole. too uninspiring stories for my tastes, too many bugs (but somehow andromeda got shafted whereas bethesda was always like this) and i quit playing them at 50 hour mark. (oblivion, fallout3 that was, have not played skyrim nor Fo4) I am not a huge fan of Bethesda games either, and I agree that all of them have terrible empty and inconsistent stories, but none of that invalidates the fact that they are AAA with more roleplay in it than BW games, especially Andromeda. There you can virtually roleplay anyone (within reason) and then some more with mods. Even a one-eyed hunchback pregnant junkie prostitute with aids... Just to answer your question of naming AAA games with more roleplay than BW games. Originally I was thinking to go with Pillars of Eternity, but then you would have probably dismissed it for not being AAA. So there you go - Bethesda...
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Post by Panda on Apr 11, 2017 18:41:18 GMT
Geralt is set protagonist, Witcher is like opposite of Bioware's create your own protagonist story. Geralt, Shepard, and Ryder really aren't all the different in setup. Certainly not opposites. A create your own protagonist would be more the Champion of Cyrodiil in Oblivion (even the Dragonborn in Skyrim was knocked on by Bethesda fans for being too pre-defined in terms of their RPG's). A character that is just dropped into the story and allows you to define them. This has never really been the way Bioware does it. No, you can decide Shepards and Ryders name, look, gender, sexuality and personality. Geralt is always Geralt, character from a book. Since Witcher is RPG you still have some choices you can make like who to romance, but he's not yours. We can talk about what kind of character Geralt is, but we can't really talk about what kind of character Shepard is due to him or her being vastly different. Sure Bioware doesn't make completely blank states to play, but their characters are far from Geralt who is in another opposite of RPG.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Apr 11, 2017 18:44:20 GMT
Speaking of Bethesda, perfect exemple. Look at Fallout 3 and Skyrim compared to Fallout 4, roleplaying took a rocketing nosedive.
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myalzalean
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Don't tell my wife I'm here
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by myalzalean on Apr 11, 2017 18:46:01 GMT
We can talk about what kind of character Geralt is, but we can't really talk about what kind of character Shepard is due to him or her being vastly different. Sure Bioware doesn't make completely blank states to play, but their characters are far from Geralt who is in another opposite of RPG. This is also why I believe any attempts at a Mass Effect movie with Shepard as the protagonist is doomed to fail with the fan base.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 11, 2017 18:51:51 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying. If you find the cinematic style more immersive and/or prefer the PC to be more defined that's your preference, good for you and all, but it still restricts the control you have over the PC's personality. Then go play an rpg with a voiceless protagonist. That is not ME. ME has never claimed to be full rpg. There have always been limits as the character has a set path but you can still mold the personality. If I want the kind of experience you are after I play TES or Fallout etc..
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 11, 2017 18:54:44 GMT
Speaking of Bethesda, perfect exemple. Look at Fallout 3 and Skyrim compared to Fallout 4, roleplaying took a rocketing nosedive. I played New Vegas but not FO4. What was wrong with RP in FO4? NV was pretty good, though I had a problem with not having any RP-acceptable way to continue the plot in the late game. There should have been an option for the PC to just walk out on the whole thing.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 11, 2017 19:11:07 GMT
Speaking of Bethesda, perfect exemple. Look at Fallout 3 and Skyrim compared to Fallout 4, roleplaying took a rocketing nosedive. I played New Vegas but not FO4. What was wrong with RP in FO4? NV was pretty good, though I had a problem with not having any RP-acceptable way to continue the plot in the late game. There should have been an option for the PC to just walk out on the whole thing. NV wasn't made by Bethesda. And Fallout 4 problem is most RPG element that was in the previous Fallout games was taken out in favor of a voiced protagonist and 4 dialogue option. Like how people complain about the lack of evil options in this game well Fallout is kinda like that as well. FO4 is still a good game but it's not as good as NV or FO3 in terms of being a RPG.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
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Post by Doominike on Apr 11, 2017 19:35:33 GMT
You have more control because you have more lines to choose from, the line you do choose is actually what the char says (it's not voiced but it's said in-universe) whereas the paraphrases sometimes have nothing to do with the spoken line and there is never auto-dialogue. It's objectively superior when it comes to roleplaying. If you find the cinematic style more immersive and/or prefer the PC to be more defined that's your preference, good for you and all, but it still restricts the control you have over the PC's personality. Then go play an rpg with a voiceless protagonist. That is not ME. ME has never claimed to be full rpg. There have always been limits as the character has a set path but you can still mold the personality. If I want the kind of experience you are after I play TES or Fallout etc.. Which I do also play. I like my Ryder, I liked my Sheps (mostly, aside some small segments), thought Snarky and Violent Hawkes were cool, liked my Inquisitors. I'm fine with this kind of semi-roleplaying. I'm just saying the DAO and FO3 style is better imo, because you can play a bigger number of different characters that aren't contradicted by the game. I have 2 Hawkes, 3 Inquisitors, 1 Ryder (but probably 2 eventually) and 3 or 4 Sheps, but 10+ Wardens and Lone Wanderers, that's not coincidence (but it might be preference). BW is way better at semi-preset than Bethesda though, cause I have 0 Sole Survivors who's personality, roleplay and headcanon backstory aren't contradicted by the game in some way.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 11, 2017 19:59:31 GMT
Then go play an rpg with a voiceless protagonist. That is not ME. ME has never claimed to be full rpg. There have always been limits as the character has a set path but you can still mold the personality. If I want the kind of experience you are after I play TES or Fallout etc.. Which I do also play. I like my Ryder, I liked my Sheps (mostly, aside some small segments), thought Snarky and Violent Hawkes were cool, liked my Inquisitors. I'm fine with this kind of semi-roleplaying. I'm just saying the DAO and FO3 style is better imo, because you can play a bigger number of different characters that aren't contradicted by the game. I have 2 Hawkes, 3 Inquisitors, 1 Ryder (but probably 2 eventually) and 3 or 4 Sheps, but 10+ Wardens and Lone Wanderers, that's not coincidence (but it might be preference). BW is way better at semi-preset than Bethesda though, cause I have 0 Sole Survivors who's personality, roleplay and headcanon backstory aren't contradicted by the game in some way. I see where you are coming from truly I just think the style of DAO or even FO3 just wouldn't be the right fit.
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