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Post by decafhigh on Apr 10, 2017 2:52:34 GMT
Both Hudson and Walters deserve to be thrown out the airlock. I think they both did good things at the start, but they both messed up with ME3. Walters's direction with this game has not been good imo. He's out of touch. To be fair to Mac I think he has done some good character story work. I just think handling the overall story and being in charge is a little much for him.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 10, 2017 2:59:37 GMT
Both Hudson and Walters deserve to be thrown out the airlock. I think they both did good things at the start, but they both messed up with ME3. Walters's direction with this game has not been good imo. He's out of touch. To be fair to Mac I think he has done some good character story work. I just think handling the overall story and being in charge is a little much for him. Indeed, I simply don't think he is capable of a Project Lead position. If he is restricted to a Character Writer, I have absolutely no problem with him being around, he writes characters really really good. Everyone plays Bioware games for the characters, we all know this. However I don't exactly agree with his mindset of "Sacrifice story for more character stuff". A good balance between these things is, imo, crucial for an RPG.
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Post by pdusen on Apr 10, 2017 3:02:46 GMT
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 10, 2017 3:03:57 GMT
Arguably the best trait for a lead writer/project lead to have is the ability to say "No" or "Maybe we shouldn't do this."
I can't pretend to know Mac Walters on a personal level or behind closed doors with the writing team, but I imagine a lot of sentences in those meetings begin with "wouldn't it be cool if..." and rarely end with "maybe we shouldn't."
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 10, 2017 9:24:26 GMT
Some people been happy with ME3 ending, some people don't - but there is one thing about Casey you cannot argue - he put a lot of himself in ME trilogy, both heart and vision, and many touchable memorable moments... And this is why Andromeda is a fail when you try to compare it to trilogy - after 67 hours in Andromeda, I didn't find EVEN ONE very emotional moment when I could say WOW, as i did many times in trilogy... after Virmire, after killing The Council, after getting SR-2...
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Post by Madflavor on Apr 10, 2017 11:49:05 GMT
Look. I don't really think he fucked up the endings, to be honest. You mileage will vary. There's no may about it. He created an ending which kept people talking for FIVE YEARS. That is a sign of good writing. Not bad writing. Bad writing is like, hmmm? Wonder what Commando is doing now? WTF cares? Srsly? Why do they keep on making Alien movies? 'Cause the writing is THAT god damned good. If you didn't lose people with your first post, you sure as hell lost them with this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 12:39:07 GMT
Some people been happy with ME3 ending, some people don't - but there is one thing about Casey you cannot argue - he put a lot of himself in ME trilogy, both heart and vision, and many touchable memorable moments... And this is why Andromeda is a fail when you try to compare it to trilogy - after 67 hours in Andromeda, I didn't find EVEN ONE very emotional moment when I could say WOW, as i did many times in trilogy... after Virmire, after killing The Council, after getting SR-2... I have to say I agree.... +80h, I like to explore the game, it's really not all bad but it lack of ... intensity? soul ? heart ? The situation is far different from the original trilogy, yes, but still. And without comparing both stories, so just on a technical point, the staging is not as good as the original. The musics less epic. I could do a long list but to be short, something's missing to me. Hopefully I found good moments, but nothing as incredible as what we had before.
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Post by jpcab on Apr 10, 2017 12:41:40 GMT
I wouldn't mind casey coming back but who I would really really want back is Drew Karpyshyn. That's never going to happen since Drew isn't moving back to Canada. Not to mention, Drew is all in on Star Wars, which is his real passion anyway. I can't wait for BioWare Austin to reveal their unannounced project that Drew is working on. Rumor has it that it will be the spiritual successor to KOTOR 1. Drew if it was for him would like to write for ME. He himself told that on his goodread forum.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 10, 2017 12:54:03 GMT
Some people been happy with ME3 ending, some people don't - but there is one thing about Casey you cannot argue - he put a lot of himself in ME trilogy, both heart and vision, and many touchable memorable moments... And this is why Andromeda is a fail when you try to compare it to trilogy - after 67 hours in Andromeda, I didn't find EVEN ONE very emotional moment when I could say WOW, as i did many times in trilogy... after Virmire, after killing The Council, after getting SR-2... I have to say I agree.... +80h, I like to explore the game, it's really not all bad but it lack of ... intensity? soul ? heart ? The situation is far different from the original trilogy, yes, but still. And without comparing both stories, so just on a technical point, the staging is not as good as the original. The musics less epic. I could do a long list but to be short, something's missing to me. Hopefully I found good moments, but nothing as incredible as what we had before.
Music ? is there any music in Andromeda ?
Every important or epic moment in the trilogy have really good music in the background - and it was a major part of EVERY EMOTIONAL MOMENT. In Andromeda, well, music almost doesn't exist - in the background ? Yeah, sometimes; but in the important moments ?
Seriously why they didn't bring back Jack Wall...
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Post by lastpawn on Apr 10, 2017 14:28:17 GMT
Some people been happy with ME3 ending, some people don't - but there is one thing about Casey you cannot argue - he put a lot of himself in ME trilogy, both heart and vision, and many touchable memorable moments... And this is why Andromeda is a fail when you try to compare it to trilogy - after 67 hours in Andromeda, I didn't find EVEN ONE very emotional moment when I could say WOW, as i did many times in trilogy... after Virmire, after killing The Council, after getting SR-2... But what reason do you have to believe that it was Casey who was responsible for those exact moments you list? Casey wasn't even the lead for ME1 -- that'd be Drew.
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Post by lezio on Apr 10, 2017 14:41:17 GMT
Wasn't Drew Karpyshyn the mind behind Mass Effect 1 and 2? And wasn't it because of him leaving that the dark-matter-as-the-big-enemy thing was scapped and instead they went with Casper and rainbows?
It's funny, because, now that i think about it, in Andromeda they actually reutilized the guy's idea, in the form of the scourge
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Post by CrutchCricket on Apr 10, 2017 14:49:22 GMT
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Post by lastpawn on Apr 10, 2017 14:51:30 GMT
I just want Casey to stop working on HoloLens. It's not going to be a hit, you're wasting your time. Go develop more games you visionary man! BTW, Evil Chris made a slip up in 2013 and said that Casey was the one who said "It's not good enough. We have to do better." which made them begin making Extended Cut. I know they fucked it up by going the "clarification route" but at least he isn't like Mac who immediately resorts to excuses or discarding the criticism. Mac's first response to the endings were "It's just a vocal minority" and that was after Extended Cut and then he went on to go the whole "We're looking ahead" route which is Andromeda. He's the idiot who says "I love Mass Effect because you can tell any story in it from my favorite TV show to my fav book" to the one saying "I'm not gonna let Andromeda not be Mass Effect" as if he knows how to define something he's previously been incapable of. Whoever has the setting, tone and spirit of Mass Effect in the pawn of their hand it's not Mac. It's far more likely that even Patrick Weekes, Drew or Chris L'Etoile could start scribbling on a page and turn it into a true-to-form Mass Effect story. Considering Mac's contributions from the Shyamalanian children to militaristic banter of 3, to the dumbed down writing for Anderson and Udina and TIM to his Roland Emmerich-esque comics about Turian monks and people yelling "WHY. DON'T. YOU. DIE!?" to fucking this: That right here, is the rawest form of Mac Walters penmanship you will ever find in spoken language that isn't the Catalyst dialogue, Priority Earth or the intro to ME3 and you can just tell how bad it is even just by looking at the awkwardly paced prose. Oh boy. This is like fanfic level stuff. Uninformed fanfic. Shepard: "My lt., Kaiden Alenko, a good kid, loyal..." Kaiden IS OLDER than Shepard! Why would Shepard call him a good kid?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 14:54:57 GMT
This needs a poll. *Sips Ryncol* Casey Hudson coming back? *injects Hyper-Ryncol*
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 10, 2017 14:59:22 GMT
Wasn't Drew Karpyshyn the mind behind Mass Effect 1 and 2? And wasn't it because of him leaving that the dark-matter-as-the-big-enemy thing was scapped and instead they went with Casper and rainbows? It's funny, because, now that i think about it, in Andromeda they actually reutilized the guy's idea, in the form of the scourge Well theres your way around the endings when we finally get back from Andromeda. The scourge killed everyone or nearly everyone and undid all the space magic. Except the Reapers they're gone.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 10, 2017 15:11:43 GMT
Wasn't Drew Karpyshyn the mind behind Mass Effect 1 and 2? And wasn't it because of him leaving that the dark-matter-as-the-big-enemy thing was scapped and instead they went with Casper and rainbows? It's funny, because, now that i think about it, in Andromeda they actually reutilized the guy's idea, in the form of the scourge Who knows. Mac tends to take full credit for ME2 every chance he gets. I don't even think he wrote anything for Illusive Man outside of the final 4th of his dialogue but he said multiple times he wrote him. He's just a liar. He likes the feeling of being a good writer as long as people are in the illusion, same as Damon Lindelof. Only problem is that he can't write worth shit.
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Post by Puberty on Apr 10, 2017 15:16:09 GMT
2012 BSN: "Casey Hudson should be fired" "Casey Hudson RUINED the Mass Effect franchise Foreva!" "Hudson shouldn't be allowed to write his own damn name anymore" Ya got some nerve
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 10, 2017 15:54:41 GMT
I have to say I agree.... +80h, I like to explore the game, it's really not all bad but it lack of ... intensity? soul ? heart ? The situation is far different from the original trilogy, yes, but still. And without comparing both stories, so just on a technical point, the staging is not as good as the original. The musics less epic. I could do a long list but to be short, something's missing to me. Hopefully I found good moments, but nothing as incredible as what we had before.
Music ? is there any music in Andromeda ?
Every important or epic moment in the trilogy have really good music in the background - and it was a major part of EVERY EMOTIONAL MOMENT. In Andromeda, well, music almost doesn't exist - in the background ? Yeah, sometimes; but in the important moments ?
Seriously why they didn't bring back Jack Wall...
I would mostly agree with this assessment regarding Andromeda's lack of good music, and it's a serious problem imo. However...I have a dirty confession to make....I prefer the new Galaxy Map theme over Uncharted Worlds...
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2017 16:17:18 GMT
Wasn't Drew Karpyshyn the mind behind Mass Effect 1 and 2? And wasn't it because of him leaving that the dark-matter-as-the-big-enemy thing was scapped and instead they went with Casper and rainbows? Sort of. He was responsible for the irrational Reaper behavior in ME1, yep. The dark energy plot was an idea he was fooling around with to try and explain that, but nobody ever actually committed to the idea. (The dark energy plot outline was every bit as bad as what we got, so I don't miss it.)
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Post by Arcian on Apr 10, 2017 16:44:05 GMT
Please come back to BioWare. Please. God, these morons are destroying your legacy. Please don't tell me that Mass Effect was a fuckup that placed it at eye level with Star Wars. Lore wise, storytelling wise, scientifically, just please god come back. Bring back Drew Karpyshyn too. And Chris L'Etoile. And every other former writer that helped make this franchise what it used to be before ME:A fudged it up. It was like any other night...It was almost midnight and the end of one terrible day and the beginning of yet another. It'd been like this as far back as he could remember... How long had it been now? Three years? Five? It all seemed to just blur into one long stream of booze, multi-colored cupcakes, and internet comments bemoaning what should have been his greatest moment. Instead it had been his undoing. So many years of sweat, blood, and tears poured into crafting the ultimate fantasy roleplaying experience...all the script drafts, PR bullshit Q&As, the 3am crisis meeting the day before going gold trying to decide what face to use for Tali before Eric the intern found that damned stock photo...all of that in hopes that one day his genius would be recognized...so that one day he would hear those sweet precious five little words... "It's better than The Witcher" But no...in a single decision it all came crumbling down. Why did he do it? Was it hubris? Had he been watching too much Battle Star Galactica or playing too much Deus Ex? He would try to piece it all together but the speculation became too much. He would try to call Super Mac, but he wouldn't ever return his calls. He'd become a piraha... a persona non grata. He shambled his way through the dark hallway of his flat towards his computer. He was going to do it again. Like returning to the scene of the crime he clicked his top bookmark "Unofficial BSN" Why did he keep doing this to himself, he never understood. He knew the heavy risk and knew there would be no priiize. It would be the same night...like every night befo... Wait, something was different. He rubbed his sore eyes, they must have been betraying them. He focused as hard as he could and waited for the room to stop spinning. This...this had to be some joke or troll thread. "A Plea to Casey Hudson" His heart began beating faster, dare he click? Dare he hope perchance to dream once more? He nervously hovered his finger over the mouse unable to move forward...Finally the weight of holding his finger became too much and he fell upon his mouse with great strength. In an instant the thread came to life...and so did he... "Come back" they said...they praised his genius...they saw that he WAS Mass Effect...Without him it was comparatively a Cleveland Steamer...or as they say in Canada a Toronto Boiler. But...oh no! The desperation...they cried out in horror for his return and had convinced themselves this was their last shot. Oh if they only knew how long he had waited for his children to call to him, to summon him once more to glory. He knew what he had to do... He stood up and walked to the kitchen sink with determination, the kind he hadn't felt in oh so long...he unscrewed the cap to bottle of Jack he had been nursing all day and began to pour into the sink. He wouldn't let it control him, or destroy him...he refused. In that moment he looked up to see his own reflection in the kitchen window...where once there was a hollow broken shell of a man, there now stood game developer. He inhaled deeply and nodded as he slowly let out the first new breath only a man reborn could feel. "Don't worry," he whispered softly "I'm coming goishen"
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Post by goishen on Apr 10, 2017 17:34:52 GMT
What is this? ROTFLMAO Ahem. I disagree. That's fine. Just keep on bumping my thread with this. Give some more people who like what I have to say a chance to read it.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 10, 2017 18:33:31 GMT
That's fine. Just keep on bumping my thread with this. Give some more people who like what I have to say a chance to read it. But why? Why do you want Casey Hudson back? It's like getting over the flu or worse and saying, "Gee, I'd like to be sick again. But this time maybe sicker?!" Agreed. The dude left on his own terms, that in itself shows he's no longer dedicated to the franchise, and why have someone who isn't dedicated be a part of it with uninspiring work? I wouldn't count on him enjoying being a part of something he's lost interest with and chance his work being mediocre or or worse.you don't bring someone back if they've no interest. I'd much rather keep the guys who are wanting to stay even if others dislike their work.
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Post by goishen on Apr 10, 2017 19:31:59 GMT
I'll be sick if someone were to sit me down and force me to play this game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 10, 2017 22:21:51 GMT
To be fair to Mac I think he has done some good character story work. I just think handling the overall story and being in charge is a little much for him. Indeed, I simply don't think he is capable of a Project Lead position. If he is restricted to a Character Writer, I have absolutely no problem with him being around, he writes characters really really good. Everyone plays Bioware games for the characters, we all know this. However I don't exactly agree with his mindset of "Sacrifice story for more character stuff". A good balance between these things is, imo, crucial for an RPG. Walters reminds of Steven Moffat the current showrunner for Dr. Who he can write some great stories but his overall major plot arcs suck.
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Post by shermos on Apr 11, 2017 7:58:20 GMT
Casey got blamed unfairly for the ME3 ending and I would gladly welcome him back. Mac Walters has more to do with it from what I've seen. and the fact Mac is the lead writer for Andromeda REALLY shows. What a bloody hack.
Bioware needs to bring back the likes of Drew Karpyshyn or at least hire new writers who have a strong pedigree in sci-fi.
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