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Post by themikefest on Apr 14, 2017 13:04:00 GMT
No, I just can't remotely understand why anyone would like it. That's fine. I like it. As soon as the thing says its something you cannot comprehend, I lost interest especially since the whole fight that led to that was lame We will fight, we will sacrifice, and will find a way. That's what humans do. excellent. I like that line.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 14, 2017 13:10:44 GMT
How is Tali telling Legion he does have a soul not in this video?
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Post by vonuber on Apr 14, 2017 13:37:29 GMT
How is Tali telling Legion he does have a soul not in this video? Because it's bollocks and completely rewrites the Geth from ME2?
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Post by cypherj on Apr 14, 2017 14:06:14 GMT
How is Tali telling Legion he does have a soul not in this video? Because it's bollocks and completely rewrites the Geth from ME2? Whether or not the statement is true or not has nothing to with a Quarian telling a Geth that right after the Geth gave its life for peace between their people.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 14, 2017 14:12:40 GMT
How is Tali telling Legion he does have a soul not in this video? Because it's bollocks and completely rewrites the Geth from ME2? Well, yes and no. It's just Tali saying this, so you could write it off as just her own sense of spirituality or whatever. It doesn't really say much about the geth as it does her regard for them. In any case, my main problem with this scene is the framing around the reaper code. It's real advantage is that the geth would no longer be at risk of being reduced as their numbers dwindle in the war, but instead is presented simply as a means for them to be "alive".
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Post by ShakespeareInSpace on Apr 14, 2017 14:41:50 GMT
Andromeda lacks the cohesion of the original trilogy, however our perceptions of the 'great' moments have accumulated over three games whilst the Andromeda arc has only one to compare. From my opinion, it's disparate to compare the completion of the OT to the prelude that is Andromeda. It would be more plausible to compare ME1 to MEA and remark upon any climax discrepancies.
That said, we are also more emotional invested in the OT characters whilst having only a superficial appreciation for MEA characters because of their lack of opportunity to expand, to feel more organic. The OT expertly manoeuvred the player through an immersive experience across three games, Andromeda is construed by myself as one gargantuan introduction.
The deceptive depth of a whole new galaxy but my feet still feel like I'm standing on earth, so to speak whilst the OT catapults you between the stars. I do hope, however, that the Andromeda games can birth some beautiful moments that are a worthy successor to the OT.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 17:20:45 GMT
Andromeda in a nutshell... (possible spoilers) ...everything is a bowl of laughs. And all of that for me would be fun levity if the writing felt a bit more sober at times, and if I felt like we were learning more about the mysteries, if the final boss was not a cartoon character. I did enjoy those bits of levity, but I really wanted more meat to sink my teeth into. When it was done, I was kind of bummed. I did enjoy the ride, but I hoped for something on par with the kind of story telling we got with ME1. That felt big, epic, and like there was more ahead but we still made a difference in the here and now - and mostly like we understood more walking away than as if we just got there. The most we know is more about the kett and what they are up to, a bit more about how the scourge came to be, and a bit more about the purpose of the vaults which we basically figured out but then we had some rock solid evidence for understanding. By comparison at the end of ME1 we know exactly what is going to happen, that we may have staved it off for a little bit or a lot. We know about indoctrination. We've seen it. We have seen a reaper. We understand some of their logic. We have actually met and talked with one. We know exactly what happened to the protheans. Lots of answers with some more questions but mostly answers. And we started out not really knowing there was a question that needed to be answered. By contrast, when we arrive on the Nexus we have a lot of question and we get very few answers. Most of them center on one thing. What the hell happened in those 600 years because our scans? They showed NONE of this. From there we get some very basic answers but those answers were what we concluded to some degree. So they were more of verifying what we felt we knew with some added new questions. I guess because we had to settle planets the mysteries of the universe will have to wait. Hopefully the DLC digs into much of this because we got so much more in ME1 and based on DAI it looks like this is the new thing, to pose questions and mysteries that people have to wait years just to get an answer.
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Post by supersomething on Apr 14, 2017 17:24:07 GMT
Kai Leng and Kahlee Sanders were a nod to the people who read the books I suppose. I was surprised to see them, but I really wish they would have handled Kai Leng better and not introduced him in the middle part of the last game. Kahlee at least made some sense, but this out of the blue space ninja screwing with you and only referenced occasionally by Anderson left anyone who did not read the books awfully confused.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 17:25:42 GMT
Andromeda lacks the cohesion of the original trilogy, however our perceptions of the 'great' moments have accumulated over three games whilst the Andromeda arc has only one to compare. From my opinion, it's disparate to compare the completion of the OT to the prelude that is Andromeda. It would be more plausible to compare ME1 to MEA and remark upon any climax discrepancies. That said, we are also more emotional invested in the OT characters whilst having only a superficial appreciation for MEA characters because of their lack of opportunity to expand, to feel more organic. The OT expertly manoeuvred the player through an immersive experience across three games, Andromeda is construed by myself as one gargantuan introduction. The deceptive depth of a whole new galaxy but my feet still feel like I'm standing on earth, so to speak whilst the OT catapults you between the stars. I do hope, however, that the Andromeda games can birth some beautiful moments that are a worthy successor to the OT. Agreed and most of this thread ends up I think focusing more on ME1. I know I do directly in many of my posts. It wasn't a fair comparison to compare it to the trilogy right out but to compare it to ME1 is fair and for that there is a lot to be said.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 14, 2017 17:38:59 GMT
The quickest and most generic way I can say why I felt Andromeda doesn't have big moments like OT or even ME1 is that when I finished ME1 or when I got to the end of Ilos at least, it felt as if it adds up. Suddenly the journey just felt like more than the sum of its parts which I actually found mostly boring and uninteresting and I enjoyed side-questing more, but I was suddenly sold on the idea of Mass Effect near the end and when 2 started elaborating more on that foundation I just wanted to see what happened next and what happened next. Andromeda doesn't spark that excitement at any point. It does something great in the final mission but it's not enough.
Contrary to ME1 that's where ME3 ultimately failed for me and why its ending sucked (regardless of the logic or X Y and Z) because instead of adding up it started falling apart.
Andromeda does neither it's just like stuff happens and I didn't care too much.
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Post by doch on Apr 14, 2017 23:01:53 GMT
Andromeda lacks the cohesion of the original trilogy, however our perceptions of the 'great' moments have accumulated over three games whilst the Andromeda arc has only one to compare. From my opinion, it's disparate to compare the completion of the OT to the prelude that is Andromeda. It would be more plausible to compare ME1 to MEA and remark upon any climax discrepancies. That said, we are also more emotional invested in the OT characters whilst having only a superficial appreciation for MEA characters because of their lack of opportunity to expand, to feel more organic. The OT expertly manoeuvred the player through an immersive experience across three games, Andromeda is construed by myself as one gargantuan introduction. The deceptive depth of a whole new galaxy but my feet still feel like I'm standing on earth, so to speak whilst the OT catapults you between the stars. I do hope, however, that the Andromeda games can birth some beautiful moments that are a worthy successor to the OT. Agreed and most of this thread ends up I think focusing more on ME1. I know I do directly in many of my posts. It wasn't a fair comparison to compare it to the trilogy right out but to compare it to ME1 is fair and for that there is a lot to be said. Agreed. What it all comes down to, how did ME 1 make us feel and think during, at the end and afterword? Vs. MEA. If the MEA series is ever going to be on par with the OT, it's going to need much more cohesive, in depth and all around better writing. Even if they need to drop open world exploration or reduce it, in order to achieve that - by all means, I hope they do. I believe they can draw from the successful style of ME 1 without creating clichés and be still be creative in the process. However, it WILL require more talented and experienced writing, than what created MEA (IMO). If diversity and social justice messages/agenda remains their #1 priorities, then it's just going to be more of the same. Sadly.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 5:45:25 GMT
Hard to put my finger on it, but like many have said Andromeda failed to spark my excitement. The story is very linear, there is no choice (or choices that don't matter). Hard to think of any play through as being 'my Ryder' the same way it was 'my Shephard'. I would imagine Andromeda would be much easier to write a series of games for, but it just makes the whole experience very bland and generic.
In addition, it was nice to include little homages to the first trilogy, but they were so numerous that it began to feel lazy. Why does there have to be a loyalty mission, something which suited ME2's story much better? Why does the Tempest have to look like the Normandy? I was beginning to feel 'epic' again at the end until I found out that they left open the possibility that future games would include all the Milky Way species. At that point it became so hard to see this story elements as anything other than deus ex machina to lazily copy all the IP instead of writing something new.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 15, 2017 6:02:48 GMT
Hard to put my finger on it, but like many have said Andromeda failed to spark my excitement. The story is very linear, there is no choice (or choices that don't matter). Hard to think of any play through as being 'my Ryder' the same way it was 'my Shephard'. I would imagine Andromeda would be much easier to write a series of games for, but it just makes the whole experience very bland and generic. In addition, it was nice to include little homages to the first trilogy, but they were so numerous that it began to feel lazy. Why does there have to be a loyalty mission, something which suited ME2's story much better? Why does the Tempest have to look like the Normandy? I was beginning to feel 'epic' again at the end until I found out that they left open the possibility that future games would include all the Milky Way species. At that point it became so hard to see this story elements as anything other than deus ex machina to lazily copy all the IP instead of writing something new. Besides saying "they suited ME2" what is your actual issue with the loyalty missions? They're a way that bioware expands on the characters, and if that's how they're wanting to do it and it gets us expanded characters they should do it. The characters themselves have been scrutinized in this game yet various reviews negative included will bring up the loyalty missions at least giving some spark to those characters. It also makes sense if you're a lore fanatic as a loyal crew =better production and trust being how the protagonist works with them. Those loyalty missions are honestly why I still think the game is at least ok and not bad.
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Post by Invellous on Apr 15, 2017 6:24:58 GMT
Andromeda lacks the cohesion of the original trilogy, however our perceptions of the 'great' moments have accumulated over three games whilst the Andromeda arc has only one to compare. From my opinion, it's disparate to compare the completion of the OT to the prelude that is Andromeda. It would be more plausible to compare ME1 to MEA and remark upon any climax discrepancies. That said, we are also more emotional invested in the OT characters whilst having only a superficial appreciation for MEA characters because of their lack of opportunity to expand, to feel more organic. The OT expertly manoeuvred the player through an immersive experience across three games, Andromeda is construed by myself as one gargantuan introduction. The deceptive depth of a whole new galaxy but my feet still feel like I'm standing on earth, so to speak whilst the OT catapults you between the stars. I do hope, however, that the Andromeda games can birth some beautiful moments that are a worthy successor to the OT. This, this right here. You said anything and everything I could / would have. It is really unfair to try and hold Andromeda next to the trilogy, just as it is to hold any standalone Assassin's Creed next to the three games that featured Ezio. There are some fair comparisons, sure; animations, gameplay, story cohesion even, ect, but to compare one game to three is only going to end in disappointment in the singular title. So in a way you are doing yourself a disservice by setting yourself up for disappointment which is only compacted by the standalone issues. I think a big step in learning to enjoy Mass Effect: Andromeda is understanding that it is not meant to be Mass Effect 4. Ryder is not meant to be a 'new' Shepard but his own character and the same goes for the squad mates. I feel the story, whatever one thinks about it, is meant to carry a different feel and theme. Understanding that and leaving the trilogy behind as the Andromeda Initiative left the Milky Way is paramount in approaching Andromeda. That said it has been 'lacking' but not without it's own moments. One between the siblings hit me as I myself am a brother and the Emotional responses felt appropriate. Liam's loyalty mission is also memorable as well. I enjoyed it immensely and asked myself "where was this X amount of hours ago?" Are they as wide reaching or impactful? No, not by comparison. There are plenty of small moments that I will remember and I hope to find more as I progress further. So far Andromeda has shown great potential, a lot of which is untapped and hindered by social agenda shenanigans. I have enjoyed it so far and hope that they come back stronger in the second title. The best thing EA could do is say "go wild". Would love to step back on to Havarl and have a Avatar 'whoa...' moment, which are very achievable moments, if Bioware steps up their game and goes big.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 8:19:14 GMT
I think a big step in learning to enjoy Mass Effect: Andromeda is understanding that it is not meant to be Mass Effect 4. Ryder is not meant to be a 'new' Shepard but his own character and the same goes for the squad mates. I feel the story, whatever one thinks about it, is meant to carry a different feel and theme. Understanding that and leaving the trilogy behind as the Andromeda Initiative left the Milky Way is paramount in approaching Andromeda. I feel exactly the same way! But they gave us a Krogan squadmate who is bitter at how his race has been treated, they gave us a ship that looks too much like the Normandy, Turian/Salarian females that are indistinguishable from males, SAM instead of EDI...the list goes on. I will say I expected I would be able to punch the reporter but very glad that I couldn't because it would have been too much. And then at the end you hear talk about all these other arks out there. So yeah its not meant to be Mass Effect 4 but they are including way too many design and story elements from ME 1-3 its hard not to compare the two.
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Post by Invellous on Apr 15, 2017 8:55:27 GMT
I think a big step in learning to enjoy Mass Effect: Andromeda is understanding that it is not meant to be Mass Effect 4. Ryder is not meant to be a 'new' Shepard but his own character and the same goes for the squad mates. I feel the story, whatever one thinks about it, is meant to carry a different feel and theme. Understanding that and leaving the trilogy behind as the Andromeda Initiative left the Milky Way is paramount in approaching Andromeda. I feel exactly the same way! But they gave us a Krogan squadmate who is bitter at how his race has been treated, they gave us a ship that looks too much like the Normandy, Turian/Salarian females that are indistinguishable from males, SAM instead of EDI...the list goes on. I will say I expected I would be able to punch the reporter but very glad that I couldn't because it would have been too much. And then at the end you hear talk about all these other arks out there. So yeah its not meant to be Mass Effect 4 but they are including way too many design and story elements from ME 1-3 its hard not to compare the two. I would argue that turian females are easily distinguishable from the males, at least for me. The females lack the sweeping head crests, are more lithe in appearance and have less prominent facial dermal plates. Also, Drack has plenty of reason to bitter and the same goes for any krogan for that matter. From an outside perspective it is easy to say they brought their plights upon themselves and thus have no reason to be bitter, however, from the krogan's what has been done to them is wrong and unjust. It takes a very self aware and leveled headed person to be introspective, and the krogan are anything but, Hell... humans rarely are. And lets be honest their situation is not a black and white one. SAM and EDI... I can't say that there are not some similarities because there are but they do have different purposes in both gameplay and story function. They both do have similar personal goals though but that is all. I will say that if SAM tries to get a body then I will totally call foul on Bioware. Now are there similar character / story elements? Sure. Drack is a merc turned key figure for a clan, much like Wrex. Peebee is a researcher like Liara, though they have contrasting personalities. Cora is a by the books soldier that serves as the 'break my boot in your arse' woman figure, much like Ashley. And Jaal is much like Javik in his quest to understand the other races. These are just a few elements, most can be argued that the similarities are just a norm of the race or faction. Like the trilogy we have a strange race collecting people for some unknown reason, at least to me it is unknown as I am roughly 50%+ through the game. Taking my time with it. And we have some crazy synthetics. The list can go on of course. So yeah, there are some similarities and some new elements. That is to be expected in some respects and in others it comes off as just lazy and uninspired. I think this is owed to the fact that many of the old Mass Effect team is gone if I am not mistaken as well as them 'playing it safe' hence the reason for some things being unaltered, like the Multiplayer for example. All I can say is I hope Bioware uses our feedback to craft better DLC and sequels in the future as they explore and develop the Andromeda universe.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 9:43:30 GMT
Yes the Krogan are bitter I get that, my point was I did not need yet another bitter Krogan in my squad. Wrex was there to introduce the plight of the Krogan to the player, much like Jaal is there to introduce you to the Angara and their plight. Drack is just a 'play it safe' element that annoys.
I liked that Peebee was the 'whatevs!' version Liara instead of another high minded Asari, but she adds nothing to the story and I wish I could have kicked her off the team. I don't even need her for investigating Remnant, thats all Ryder and SAM.
Liam is what he is, a filler so you have the minimum 3 person squad at the very beginning. The others were a little interesting, but to be honest none of them can hold a candle to Wrex/Garrus/Tali/Grunt/...etc.
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Post by Invellous on Apr 15, 2017 10:07:01 GMT
Yes the Krogan are bitter I get that, my point was I did not need yet another bitter Krogan in my squad. Wrex was there to introduce the plight of the Krogan to the player, much like Jaal is there to introduce you to the Angara and their plight. Drack is just a 'play it safe' element that annoys. I liked that Peebee was the 'whatevs!' version Liara instead of another high minded Asari, but she adds nothing to the story and I wish I could have kicked her off the team. I don't even need her for investigating Remnant, thats all Ryder and SAM. Liam is what he is, a filler so you have the minimum 3 person squad at the very beginning. The others were a little interesting, but to be honest none of them can hold a candle to Wrex/Garrus/Tali/Grunt/...etc. I can certainty understand being disappointed with Drack if he is not the kinda of krogan you were looking for, especially given the fact that he does feel like 'more of the same'. I do not mind him personally and find his banter with the rest of the squad to be enjoyable enough. I will say that it is hard to imagine a krogan not being bitter about the whole ordeal especially when you compact it with the event that took place on the Nexus which only serves to reinforced their disdain rather than help cure it. You have to remember when they left nothing was done to correct what was done to them so they have very little reason to be like, "yo, that whole sterilization thing? We're cool. Think we are total liabilities who should not have a say in our well being? I get that man, totally cool with that." I get your point but at the same time it is like "well... this here, it is still a thing." I can agree that so far Peebee does not appear to offer much, at least from what I have seen thus far. Though the same could be said in regards to Liara as it was Shepard who did all the things with ancient technology. Also we have to remember that Peebee has not had the same amount of time to study the Remnant that Liara had with the Protheans. So her ability to be super useful and knowledge is limited. If she was able to do anything with the tech and knew everything I imagine folks would be arguing that she knew too much. Liam Bro'sta is in my eyes the new Garrus Brokarian, though not nearly as cool and misguided. Both have good intentions and have a strong desire to do the right thing but are misguided and need you to point them in the right direction and clean up their mess when they make a mistake. So again some similarities, but that can be said with Dragon Age as well. I am personally indifferent. I can appreciate the characters for what they are. I am disappointed that their introduction was not as strong as the squad in the Mass Effect trilogy but I think that has more to do with the theme of the story and the sense of urgency, or rather the lack thereof. I will say again that I think it is important to try and see it as a standalone title and not hold the previous three titles up so closely otherwise yeah... disappointment. Should it be better as a whole? Yes, no doubt. But it is what it is and I am sincerely trying to enjoy Andromeda for what it is rather than what it is not.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 11:56:12 GMT
I guess the difference in perspectives between you and I is that I think there is a much higher bar for people you are forced to accept into your squad. All the characters are so-so. I get Drack is bitter and I know why all Krogan are, what I am saying is that there is no reason for bitter Krogan #2 to be in my squad. Wrex served that purpose well because he was a vehicle to explain Krogan history to you. Grunt was not bitter at all, just looking for his purpose in life.
The only ones who serve a purpose are Jaal and Cora. The rest make no difference to the story and if the story omitted them, it would still be the same game. They should have been squadmates for one special mission here or there, not luggage I haul around on the Tempest.
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Post by Invellous on Apr 15, 2017 13:04:20 GMT
I guess the difference in perspectives between you and I is that I think there is a much higher bar for people you are forced to accept into your squad. All the characters are so-so. I get Drack is bitter and I know why all Krogan are, what I am saying is that there is no reason for bitter Krogan #2 to be in my squad. Wrex served that purpose well because he was a vehicle to explain Krogan history to you. Grunt was not bitter at all, just looking for his purpose in life. The only ones who serve a purpose are Jaal and Cora. The rest make no difference to the story and if the story omitted them, it would still be the same game. They should have been squadmates for one special mission here or there, not luggage I haul around on the Tempest. I don't really have anything I can say in response to that, not unless I wanted to be nit-picky about Grunt and his viability in said argument and the arguably necessity for all characters to be a driving force for the story with a greater teaching purpose but that would really be pointless and benefit no one. I like the characters personally. Again, do they hit as hard as they could? No. This time around the delivery was weak but they are not without their charm and moments, specifically in their loyalty missions. Liam's quests have been enjoyable. Cora interestingly enough I do not like and find to be pretty weak. She does not seem to offer any insight into the role of Pathfinder. She seems to be 'just there', more or less a Ashley v2.0.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 15, 2017 16:10:46 GMT
I guess the difference in perspectives between you and I is that I think there is a much higher bar for people you are forced to accept into your squad. All the characters are so-so. I get Drack is bitter and I know why all Krogan are, what I am saying is that there is no reason for bitter Krogan #2 to be in my squad. Wrex served that purpose well because he was a vehicle to explain Krogan history to you. Grunt was not bitter at all, just looking for his purpose in life. The only ones who serve a purpose are Jaal and Cora. The rest make no difference to the story and if the story omitted them, it would still be the same game. They should have been squadmates for one special mission here or there, not luggage I haul around on the Tempest. But that is the same for most Bioware games. In ME1 every squadmate is just there to tell you the history of their r people, biotics, or just their family. In ME2 we all you needed was Mordin and Miranda just for the cure and to stay in contact with TIM. DAO all you need for story purpose is Allister and Morrigan. I haven't played DA2 but in DAI all you need is Cassandra and Solas.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 15, 2017 16:26:03 GMT
But that is the same for most Bioware games. In ME1 every squadmate is just there to tell you the history of their r people, biotics, or just their family. In ME2 we all you needed was Mordin and Miranda just for the cure and to stay in contact with TIM. DAO all you need for story purpose is Allister and Morrigan. I haven't played DA2 but in DAI all you need is Cassandra and Solas. Not quite. In ME1 you are being introduced to the universe, so the perspective of all these players is important to shape the new world or IP. In DAO all you need Allister and Morrigan and guess what? You can kick out or kill or turn away everyone else, none of them are forced upon you. For the longest time I would tell Wynne and Leliana to beat it. In fact you can ask Morrigan to leave and she will only come back on the eve of the final battle. For ME2 I absolutely felt that everyone brought something to the table, and the final mission justified the time and effort I invested in every one of them. I loved the way all the squad members fit together perfectly like pieces of a puzzle at the end. Loyalty missions mean something when the game is about the team... Its not the same in ME:A. On my first playthrough most of these characters were grating on me and I found myself talking to them only to advance the plot, and frequently skipping whole sections of the conversation. I really did not care about any of them. I finished ME:T countless times and I still listen to each conversation and probe every option.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 15, 2017 16:32:21 GMT
What the hell did thane bring to the table?
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 15, 2017 16:42:24 GMT
What the hell did thane bring to the table? Being the one guy on the team without daddy issues.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 15, 2017 16:53:36 GMT
What the hell did thane bring to the table? Being the one guy on the team without daddy issues. True, he was the daddy causing the issues.
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