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Post by Pearl on Apr 16, 2017 7:24:40 GMT
Same. Any person I met who does not like ryder has this issue. they want to be renegade but can't. I don't think it's being renegade, I just want the option to say how I really feel, or say what's on my mind without it being a joke. Even with your squadmates, you never really get into it with them. You could tell Ashley in ME1 how you really felt about her attitude towards aliens for example, or in ME2 you could flat out call Mordin a murderer when talking about the genophage. Yeah, this is the biggest issue I have with actually playing Ryder. Sometimes I just want to be blunt with people, and Andromeda doesn't really do that with any regularity. A lot of the options are either curt and robotic, or veiled behind 17 layers of irony (which is normally something I would appreciate, but there's no variety) when I just wanted to spit out the paraphrased version of that option word-for-word.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by applepiesvk on Apr 16, 2017 9:10:55 GMT
Ryder is nothing without godmode SAM, besides dialogue tree is so bad, sometimes you can get such a retarded responses. One of the cringiest things that I heard in whole Mass Effect was Ryder´s explanation of "justice" when talking to Tann about that attempted murder. This list of Ryder going full retard is long and always present in whole plot of game.
Besides, Ryder is not tailored by player´s choices in such a depth as Shepard ever was. While simplistic bipolar was the renegade/paragon moral score, it was still better than having 4 same shades of Ryder the good guy. I really cannot remember one truly evil choice made in this game, not justified, but realy meanspirited.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 13,331 Likes: 30,906
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Apr 16, 2017 9:18:04 GMT
Ryder is nothing without godmode SAM, besides dialogue tree is so bad, sometimes you can get such a retarded responses. One of the cringiest things that I heard in whole Mass Effect was Ryder´s explanation of "justice" when talking to Tann about that attempted murder. This list of Ryder going full retard is long and always present in whole plot of game. Besides, Ryder is not tailored by player´s choices in such a depth as Shepard ever was. While simplistic bipolar was the renegade/paragon moral score, it was still better than having 4 same shades of Ryder the good guy. I really cannot remember one truly evil choice made in this game, not justified, but realy meanspirited. So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 16, 2017 9:20:22 GMT
Ryder is nothing without godmode SAM, besides dialogue tree is so bad, sometimes you can get such a retarded responses. One of the cringiest things that I heard in whole Mass Effect was Ryder´s explanation of "justice" when talking to Tann about that attempted murder. This list of Ryder going full retard is long and always present in whole plot of game. Besides, Ryder is not tailored by player´s choices in such a depth as Shepard ever was. While simplistic bipolar was the renegade/paragon moral score, it was still better than having 4 same shades of Ryder the good guy. I really cannot remember one truly evil choice made in this game, not justified, but realy meanspirited. So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha. Or murdering your lover's lover Or shooting a guy in the back. These folks need genocide, else it ain't an RPG.
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applepiesvk
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 20 Likes: 8
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Post by applepiesvk on Apr 16, 2017 9:24:32 GMT
Ryder is nothing without godmode SAM, besides dialogue tree is so bad, sometimes you can get such a retarded responses. One of the cringiest things that I heard in whole Mass Effect was Ryder´s explanation of "justice" when talking to Tann about that attempted murder. This list of Ryder going full retard is long and always present in whole plot of game. Besides, Ryder is not tailored by player´s choices in such a depth as Shepard ever was. While simplistic bipolar was the renegade/paragon moral score, it was still better than having 4 same shades of Ryder the good guy. I really cannot remember one truly evil choice made in this game, not justified, but realy meanspirited. So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha. Rather justified. I was thinking about something of caliber Shepard doing renegade choice despite the alternative, something like killing rachni queen at ME1, killing colonists at Feros or destroying Maelon´s data at ME2 etc. And shooting that guy in back, after seeing process of exaltation is really far from being evil...
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applepiesvk
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Posts: 20 Likes: 8
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Post by applepiesvk on Apr 16, 2017 9:30:19 GMT
These folks need genocide, else it ain't an RPG.It´s called Role Play Game for a reason...
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 16, 2017 9:31:53 GMT
So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha. Rather justified. I was thinking about something of caliber Shepard doing renegade choice despite the alternative, something like killing rachni queen at ME1, killing colonists at Feros or destroying Maelon´s data at ME2 etc. And shooting that guy in back, after seeing process of exaltation is really far from being evil... So Ryder would need to do something worse than exaltation for it to be evil. Interesting. And you seem rather hellbent on killing things.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 16, 2017 9:32:40 GMT
These folks need genocide, else it ain't an RPG.It´s called Role Play Game for a reason... So you need to commit genocide? You can only roleplay if you go to the extremes of human evil? Lol. Dude.
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applepiesvk
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Post by applepiesvk on Apr 16, 2017 9:39:02 GMT
It´s called Role Play Game for a reason... So you need to commit genocide? You can only roleplay if you go to the extremes of human evil? Lol. Dude. No I don´t, those are your words, your equivalent for being evil. I was talking about concept of RPG which was brought here by BioWare with its Para/Rene morality, which was helping to shape player´s character in a way he or she wanted. Besides, as if the only evil choices across the ME trilogy included only Shepard being genocidal maniac. This is more of issue of player´s freedom than anything else, and if you want less freedom, then suit yourself.
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Post by wereleopard58 on Apr 16, 2017 9:39:58 GMT
Lol just try to imagine what they use to work put conversations for all scenarios. It makes my head hurt. I did a second play through where an earlier mission in Kadara, I completed later after romancing Reyes. Obviously elements were different. It's obvious why they have limited elements otherwise I don't think the game would ever come out.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 16, 2017 9:44:19 GMT
So you need to commit genocide? You can only roleplay if you go to the extremes of human evil? Lol. Dude. No I don´t, those are your words, your equivalent for being evil. I was talking about concept of RPG which was brought here by BioWare with its Para/Rene morality, which was helping to shape player´s character in a way he or she wanted. Besides, as if the only evil choices across the ME trilogy included only Shepard being genocidal maniac. This is more of issue of player´s freedom than anything else, and if you want less freedom, then suit yourself. I mentioned at least two other instances of role playing, but you only bothered to quote the genocide part and then pretended that it was vital for the game to be an RPG. In this game you don't get to be a genocidal maniac that murders people left and right, but still has his/her ass kissed by half the galaxy. ME was ridiculous in that regard, and I'm glad they changed it. I wouldn't mind if they added the option to be one though, but it should lead to an automatic game over screen because you're either in jail or put to death.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 13,331 Likes: 30,906
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Fen'Harel Faceman
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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almostfaceman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Apr 16, 2017 11:19:13 GMT
So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha. Rather justified. I was thinking about something of caliber Shepard doing renegade choice despite the alternative, something like killing rachni queen at ME1, killing colonists at Feros or destroying Maelon´s data at ME2 etc. And shooting that guy in back, after seeing process of exaltation is really far from being evil... Your opinion on this is on a whole other level of stupid.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 16, 2017 11:34:36 GMT
Rather justified. I was thinking about something of caliber Shepard doing renegade choice despite the alternative, something like killing rachni queen at ME1, killing colonists at Feros or destroying Maelon´s data at ME2 etc. And shooting that guy in back, after seeing process of exaltation is really far from being evil... Killing colonists? You can abandon or save thousands as Ryder as well. Maelon's data? It's importance came into light in ME3. Which can happen with any keep or destroy quest we have in MEA, assuming next game comes out. So rather poor examples. As of rachni choice, I'm glad we don't have one like that in MEA, because I consider it one of the most stupid choices we have in MET. And you know there's more than one shooting in the back, right? How do you know which one Psychevore meant?
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Post by jpcab on Apr 16, 2017 13:31:06 GMT
There is one hero on this game and he was found after 10 minutes of game. It was the only important moment of the game. Alec Ryder saving his son
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2017 13:51:42 GMT
So murdering the guy at the end of the Krogan's loyalty mission doesn't count as mean spirited. Gotcha. Or murdering your lover's lover Or shooting a guy in the back. These folks need genocide, else it ain't an RPG. I was thinking about Peebee's loyalty mission. Yeah, doing that for some remtech is pretty messed up lol, but I'm glad the option was there, because that asari did technically try to get you killed too.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2017 13:54:13 GMT
There is one hero on this game and he was found after 10 minutes of game. It was the only important moment of the game. Alec Ryder saving his son Alec Ryder being a big damn hero through to the end in the game was something I really liked, and I don't feel it reduces the value of the Ryder twins at all. After all, the game's as much about his legacy as it is about our new Pathfinder's adventure.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by jastall on Apr 16, 2017 14:10:03 GMT
I do agree that Ryder can be a bit too nice at times, options to be more assertive would be cool. There are NPCs with which you can be blunt, like Tann and Addison, but it doesn't happen quite often enough.
But it's another thing the OT overdid a bit. Especially Shepard being able to insult his bosses in ME1, or outright punch one of the leaders of the Quarians in ME3, and suffer absolutely 0 consequences whatsoever for it. I know that it's part of the power fantasy, but if you ask me being a dick to the wrong people should have repercussions.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 16, 2017 14:20:58 GMT
Rather justified. I was thinking about something of caliber Shepard doing renegade choice despite the alternative, something like killing rachni queen at ME1, killing colonists at Feros or destroying Maelon´s data at ME2 etc. And shooting that guy in back, after seeing process of exaltation is really far from being evil... Your opinion on this is on a whole other level of stupid. Your "lovers lover", "the guy at the end of the krogan's loyalty mission" and whoever that was in Kett exaltation facility are murderous psychopaths who were very much devoted to killing you and your comps few seconds before you're given a choice to spare them or not. Killing them is far from being evil. It's out of character though, because otherwise Ryder is unable to even raise his voice in most conversations when he should do it. Doesn't seem capable of killing anyone.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 16, 2017 14:28:56 GMT
Your opinion on this is on a whole other level of stupid. Your "lovers lover", "the guy at the end of the krogan's loyalty mission" and whoever that was in Kett exaltation facility are murderous psychopaths who were very much devoted to killing you and your comps few seconds before you're given a choice to spare them or not. Killing them is far from being evil. It's out of character though, because otherwise Ryder is unable to even raise his voice in most conversations when he should do it. Doesn't seem capable of killing anyone. So killing people that 'deserve' it is not enough? We should get option to kill whomever we want as well? Cool. As long as it's tied to consequences like prison or relieving from duty. Or exile in case of MEA. Because no one would want psychopath as Pathfinder.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 16, 2017 14:37:38 GMT
Your "lovers lover", "the guy at the end of the krogan's loyalty mission" and whoever that was in Kett exaltation facility are murderous psychopaths who were very much devoted to killing you and your comps few seconds before you're given a choice to spare them or not. Killing them is far from being evil. It's out of character though, because otherwise Ryder is unable to even raise his voice in most conversations when he should do it. Doesn't seem capable of killing anyone. So killing people that 'deserve' it is not enough? We should get option to kill whomever we want as well? Cool. As long as it's tied to consequences like prison or relieving from duty. Or exile in case of MEA. Because no one would want psychopath as Pathfinder. How about something grey rather than black\white, hm?
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,274
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correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 16, 2017 15:18:40 GMT
I do agree that Ryder can be a bit too nice at times, options to be more assertive would be cool. There are NPCs with which you can be blunt, like Tann and Addison, but it doesn't happen quite often enough. But it's another thing the OT overdid a bit. Especially Shepard being able to insult his bosses in ME1, or outright punch one of the leaders of the Quarians in ME3, and suffer absolutely 0 consequences whatsoever for it. I know that it's part of the power fantasy, but if you ask me being a dick to the wrong people should have repercussions. Ryder can be very forceful and blunt. Some of the strongest one's are tied to additional tasks and so called fetch quests though. So killing people that 'deserve' it is not enough? We should get option to kill whomever we want as well? Cool. As long as it's tied to consequences like prison or relieving from duty. Or exile in case of MEA. Because no one would want psychopath as Pathfinder. How about something grey rather than black\white, hm? You've got grey.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 16, 2017 16:34:31 GMT
How about something grey rather than black\white, hm? You've got grey. Any examples? What do you consider "grey"? Only one that I can recall is the choice between Sloan and Reyes+ some rather poor attempts like with Morda, Sarissa or in "the crime he didn't commit" quest where the game presents you with 2 rather stupid choices... Besides, there are few choices in the game comparing to the amount of conversations where you can pick your preferred way of saying "Ok". I agree that MET version of renegade was unrealistic and should have been changed, but getting rid of it almost completely was not a good idea.
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Invellous
N2
Games: Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Invellous
XBL Gamertag: Invellous
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Post by Invellous on Apr 16, 2017 16:39:43 GMT
I would not call either protagonist stupid though I will say Shepard does have some lines of dialogue that make him / her appear inept in social situations. I believe that part of that has to do with the writing, there were times during my playthroughs where I literally face palmed because of something Shepard would say or do. With Ryder I rarely find myself looking at him / her with a brow raised in question of their response. It does happen but not nearly as much. Usually it is because of their lighthearted reaction to situations that Shepard would attack head on.
Another factor is dialogue options. In my opinion Shepard is more bland with your core dialogue choices determining his / her morality and or stance in any given situation whereas Ryder's dialogue choices focuses on his / her emotional response rather than their morality. Hench why Shepard is easier to role-play as because he / she feels more like a blank space that you can fill whereas the Ryders have a more developed personality that you can alter through choosing how they react.
You can argue that it is the same system just with a change from a morality focus to emotional focus, which is not bad in my opinion.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,274
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Dr Obfuscate
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correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 16, 2017 18:02:22 GMT
You've got grey. Any examples? What do you consider "grey"? Only one that I can recall is the choice between Sloan and Reyes+ some rather poor attempts like with Morda, Sarissa or in "the crime he didn't commit" quest where the game presents you with 2 rather stupid choices... Besides, there are few choices in the game comparing to the amount of conversations where you can pick your preferred way of saying "Ok". I agree that MET version of renegade was unrealistic and should have been changed, but getting rid of it almost completely was not a good idea. Which ones are not grey? And I'm not going to sit here and make a list because there are just so many but sure, Yevara, Advent, smugglers etc.
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Post by kingmandu on Apr 16, 2017 18:08:24 GMT
Ryder is a teenager... Shepard was a grownup.... 22 is a teenager now? Ryder needs three full games of character development before we even start comparing them to Shepard. As I've said before, the potential character development for Ryder is far greater than what Shepard could have achieved over the course of three games. Ryder also doesn't have crappy slow walking PTSD/indoctrination stupid space kid sections either. Ryder wins!
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