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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2016 10:17:16 GMT
It would be sweet if BioWare revamp their hand to hand combat system to be fluid, simple, and straight to the point.
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Post by Addictress on Sept 3, 2016 11:53:19 GMT
no
please, no
This is the 26th-28th century, at least. And even in the 22nd century, everything is long-range. Please.
No ninja swords. No brawling. Just no. Don't.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 3, 2016 12:45:25 GMT
no please, no This is the 26th-28th century, at least. And even in the 22nd century, everything is long-range. Please. No ninja swords. No brawling. Just no. Don't. Hand to hand combat will always exist for all time, until we humans go extinct or evolve into some sort of amorphous balls of pure energy, and even then we'd probably still hit each other with our tendrils, so it doesn't matter what year it is. The trouble is that in a game, it might become really awkward to make all of the controls for these sorts of things work.
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Post by Addictress on Sept 3, 2016 12:51:00 GMT
Of course occasional melee is fine, like in Mass Effect 3. But that's a last resort, rare scenario when your main weapons aren't an option.
It should NOT be some stylized main mode of combat. It is a supplement.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 12:59:07 GMT
No. I guess I'm a ME traditionalist. If I see this going on in ME:A I'll feel that I purchased Splinter Cell by mistake. I'm ready to dance, but not like that.
I completely agree with Addrictress.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 3, 2016 13:00:58 GMT
It didn't seem like the OP was really asking for it to be the main mode of combat, only that it be improved. I wouldn't mind Bio giving hand-to-hand a bit of a shot in the arm by having more animation, like if your melee strike is a critical blow that finally depletes the enemy's health or something. In Fallout 4, for example, a melee strike could end with both a swipe of the weapon, then using the stock of that weapon to strike the enemy in the face.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 14:03:14 GMT
It didn't seem like the OP was really asking for it to be the main mode of combat, only that it be improved. I wouldn't mind Bio giving hand-to-hand a bit of a shot in the arm by having more animation, like if your melee strike is a critical blow that finally depletes the enemy's health or something. In Fallout 4, for example, a melee strike could end with both a swipe of the weapon, then using the stock of that weapon to strike the enemy in the face. Nice comment too. You might be swaying my pov. Melee fighting is not my combat style, so who am I to say what melee-maven players can make their protagonist do when it's up close and personal? I have supported adding covert attack routes in ME:A (it IS supposed to be a 'more open world', right?) so that 'advancing forward' in combat does not have to be entirely linear - forcing a gamer to go through the same funnel routes in replays. The option of taking more hidden routes and then popping out to melee the enemies (as demonstrated in the OP's video example above) from an unexpected angle of attack makes a for a richer alternate role-play combat option. From what I've only observed in other games, I can see the advantage of CQC as an attack option. When I watched Nathan Drake's covert ground options in the Uncharted series, I thought - I want to be able to do that! At times the character can completely avoid enemy contact when movement is timed correctly. Moving up with stealth to take out an enemy quickly and quietly would be a nice addition to ME:A. It's just that I'm a bit squeamish about watching a character knifing a game enemy in such graphic detail. It's not my idea of fun entertainment when it's this graphic. Seeing complete realism tends to distract me from the fantasy play I'm looking for, so I'm sitting on the fence about this.
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Post by Monk on Sept 3, 2016 14:17:44 GMT
Mainly because the other thread's still live…
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Post by Abramsrunner on Sept 3, 2016 14:49:09 GMT
Hand-to-Hand combat? What about Headbutt-to-Headbutt combat like how the Krogans do?
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Post by kamaln7 on Sept 3, 2016 19:53:30 GMT
All Soldiers are trained in hand to hand combat, even Snipers. They have to be prepared for any situation. It would make less sense if they didn't have some sort of combat like that.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2016 20:26:50 GMT
It didn't seem like the OP was really asking for it to be the main mode of combat, only that it be improved. I wouldn't mind Bio giving hand-to-hand a bit of a shot in the arm by having more animation, like if your melee strike is a critical blow that finally depletes the enemy's health or something. In Fallout 4, for example, a melee strike could end with both a swipe of the weapon, then using the stock of that weapon to strike the enemy in the face. Nice comment too. You might be swaying my pov. Melee fighting is not my combat style, so who am I to say what melee-maven players can make their protagonist do when it's up close and personal? I have supported adding covert attack routes in ME:A (it IS supposed to be a 'more open world', right?) so that 'advancing forward' in combat does not have to be entirely linear - forcing a gamer to go through the same funnel routes in replays. The option of taking more hidden routes and then popping out to melee the enemies (as demonstrated in the OP's video example above) from an unexpected angle of attack makes a for a richer alternate role-play combat option. From what I've only observed in other games, I can see the advantage of CQC as an attack option. When I watched Nathan Drake's covert ground options in the Uncharted series, I thought - I want to be able to do that! At times the character can completely avoid enemy contact when movement is timed correctly. Moving up with stealth to take out an enemy quickly and quietly would be a nice addition to ME:A. It's just that I'm a bit squeamish about watching a character knifing a game enemy in such graphic detail. It's not my idea of fun entertainment when it's this graphic. Seeing complete realism tends to distract me from the fantasy play I'm looking for, so I'm sitting on the fence about this. Every soldier, spy, assassin, mercenary have to know hand to hand combat not just rely on a gun to do everything for you. What if your gun jams and your opponent came to you in close quarters and foolishly enough to give you an opportunity to disarm his weapon and use it against him?
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Post by Sailears on Sept 3, 2016 20:38:29 GMT
Yes please - more fluid/seamless melee would be great.
I think ME3MP's was a significant improvement in melee over the previous two games, however still quite clunky and awkward.
Sure I don't want full on anime space ninja flashy nonsense, that's totally different. For example not the N7 slayer's BS teleport flashy nonsense but rather the N7 shadow's more grounded efficient melee (both light and heavy)... As a side note I hope teleporting biotics is removed as a feature - still doesn't make any sense.
But some tasteful stylistic melee together with more fluid action that makes it more rewarding to use in the right situations (rather than having to make an effort against the gameplay to use melee sometimes as in ME3MP), and all of this being customisable through rpg talent trees would certainly make me want to play.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 4, 2016 9:16:33 GMT
Yes please - more fluid/seamless melee would be great. I think ME3MP's was a significant improvement in melee over the previous two games, however still quite clunky and awkward. Sure I don't want full on anime space ninja flashy nonsense, that's totally different. For example not the N7 slayer's BS teleport flashy nonsense but rather the N7 shadow's more grounded efficient melee (both light and heavy)... As a side note I hope teleporting biotics is removed as a feature - still doesn't make any sense. But some tasteful stylistic melee together with more fluid action that makes it more rewarding to use in the right situations (rather than having to make an effort against the gameplay to use melee sometimes as in ME3MP), and all of this being customisable through rpg talent trees would certainly make me want to play. Idk what the hell BioWare were thinking when they put unrealistic Japanesy ninja classes in a futuristic setting (Don't give me wrong love the Shinobi but I prefer them in the medieval times) It's like they don't know what they're doing it just want to put it in to make more money.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 4, 2016 9:26:06 GMT
While generally speaking I agree with the sentiment of 'once it's future and you have guns' the whole idea of swords gets a bit weird. Lore wise it can make more sense then I think people give it credit for, especially in more of a stealth role when it comes to Mass Effect.
Main thing I mean by that is shields. If an enemy has shields, lore wise, it takes a butt ton of shots to get through. It's not like in the games where 3-4 shots and your taking dmg. Especially when you have other forms of cover to let them keep there charge up. In a setting like that, Phantoms make some kinda weird sense... not so much in how they actually worked in ME3 though.
I mean stealth character that can get close to stab something bypassing the shields entirely? That's not as horrible idea as it sounds when they have there own shields/barriers. That is by no means a 'there should totally be swords and shit everywhere' argument though. I just think that's good justification for the whole Omniblade and melee training being an actual thing.
Takes down you see in Splinter Cell wouldn't really work that well in ME universe though armor and shielding make doing most of that with a pistol wildly pointless. Look awesome in that game, but biotic/omiblade takedowns from behind (if you can sneak up/run up when there attacking someone else) makes a lot of sense though.
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Post by Sailears on Sept 4, 2016 14:47:46 GMT
Yes please - more fluid/seamless melee would be great. I think ME3MP's was a significant improvement in melee over the previous two games, however still quite clunky and awkward. Sure I don't want full on anime space ninja flashy nonsense, that's totally different. For example not the N7 slayer's BS teleport flashy nonsense but rather the N7 shadow's more grounded efficient melee (both light and heavy)... As a side note I hope teleporting biotics is removed as a feature - still doesn't make any sense. But some tasteful stylistic melee together with more fluid action that makes it more rewarding to use in the right situations (rather than having to make an effort against the gameplay to use melee sometimes as in ME3MP), and all of this being customisable through rpg talent trees would certainly make me want to play. Idk what the hell BioWare were thinking when they put unrealistic Japanesy ninja classes in a futuristic setting (Don't give me wrong love the Shinobi but I prefer them in the medieval times) It's like they don't know what they're doing it just want to put it in to make more money. I guess it started with that cutscene from the Kasumi DLC in ME2 - where she's flying around like spiderwoman around Hock's gunship... yeah I found that stupid.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 4, 2016 20:59:13 GMT
Idk what the hell BioWare were thinking when they put unrealistic Japanesy ninja classes in a futuristic setting (Don't give me wrong love the Shinobi but I prefer them in the medieval times) It's like they don't know what they're doing it just want to put it in to make more money. I guess it started with that cutscene from the Kasumi DLC in ME2 - where she's flying around like spiderwoman around Hock's gunship... yeah I found that stupid. It isn't bad but it would be awesome if she climbed up on the gunship after she shut down the shields, she took out her pistol and put a bullet between his eyes and flip out. That's what they should've done.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 4, 2016 22:38:18 GMT
I guess it started with that cutscene from the Kasumi DLC in ME2 - where she's flying around like spiderwoman around Hock's gunship... yeah I found that stupid. It isn't bad but it would be awesome if she climbed up on the gunship after she shut down the shields, she took out her pistol and put a bullet between his eyes and flip out. That's what they should've done. It certainly would have saved us the trouble of the rest of the rinse-repeat boss battle with Hock. The best part of that mission, at least to me, was the party heist stuff anyway. However, a well-placed Cain can do very short work of all that once Kasumi takes the shield down.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 4, 2016 22:48:48 GMT
Honestly, I like the way melee was set up by the end of ME3 MP.
I also want the omni-shield again so I can backhand enemies =P
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Post by Adhin on Sept 4, 2016 23:22:51 GMT
Honestly, I like the way melee was set up by the end of ME3 MP. I also want the omni-shield again so I can backhand enemies =P Gods yes please. I want a semi-more refined weapon slot system, combo of ME2/3. That is, everyone should always have a sidearm (not an/also SMG - wish SMG's where either in primary or butt-slot). And like, either an evolution of the shield power or something let you walk with, or shoot with it out, or both? Maybe you can always shoot but your stationary (only with sidearm), and one upgrade makes it mildly smaller but your mobile, another makes it larger and you stay stationary? I dunno, either way I love that shield and I want more of it in MEA. I think A LOT of MP powers in ME3 would make for good candidates as fleshing out the existing classes and bonus powers. My current hope is the whole ammo power thing on soldier gets thrown out the window for actual abilities like mines and other grenade related stuff. Make him a damn Soldier and let everyone have an ammo slot on guns.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 5:06:42 GMT
Honestly, I like the way melee was set up by the end of ME3 MP. I also want the omni-shield again so I can backhand enemies =P They should've use the omni shield as a defense to protect the soldier from enemy fire and the melee animations are stale and stiff. They could've made their movements all mocap and dynamic.
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Post by Adhin on Sept 5, 2016 6:09:38 GMT
Honestly, I like the way melee was set up by the end of ME3 MP. I also want the omni-shield again so I can backhand enemies =P They should've use the omni shield as a defense to protect the soldier from enemy fire and the melee animations are stale and stiff. They could've made their movements all mocap and dynamic. Yeah, hopefully with there mocap focus we'll get more fluid animations across the board. Though when it comes to attack animations you have to be careful. While the game wont be melee focused, Witcher 3 has a pretty big issue with attack animation duration with it's fluid combat animations. Since none of them take the same amount of time, and your never sure exactly which one your going to get it can be difficult to time things since it's... all a gamble. Probably my biggest issue with that games combat. It's one reason will take the heavy charge attack and not charge it. They just hold long enough to trigger it and leg go and immediately follow up again. Boring as hell, but it's a consistent timed attack they can base combat around in away you can't with the absurd randomness of the normal attacks. So yeah I'm all for fluid animations where how you come at things and what those things are your coming at give you a variation on the animation. But they should make sure they're always the same length. You don't wanna go in for a punch, or a cover slide and find out the animation it picked lasts 30% longer then you where expecting.
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Post by zlojeb on Sept 5, 2016 9:50:08 GMT
Good ol' omni blade. It seems they did a lot of motion capture, let's hope melee takedown animations look good.
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Post by stysiaq on Sept 5, 2016 10:01:48 GMT
Well, I'm sceptic to the melee combat in sci-fi and regard Kai Leng and other space ninjas with katanas as cancerous part of the franchise. Omni-blade is a good compromise in my opinion - but I wouldn't like ME to develop melee/stealth beyond what we have in ME3.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 21:26:03 GMT
Well, I'm sceptic to the melee combat in sci-fi and regard Kai Leng and other space ninjas with katanas as cancerous part of the franchise. Omni-blade is a good compromise in my opinion - but I wouldn't like ME to develop melee/stealth beyond what we have in ME3. They could make them options like Skyrim you know. Can't be always shooting all the time and nothing else and it's nothing wrong with versatility.
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Post by Milady on Sept 6, 2016 16:29:41 GMT
I thought that Kai Leng and his little mercenaries (forgot the name of that particular Cerberus unit) were a bit ridiculous. Come on.. it's Sci-fi.. no swords a la japanese style or however you want to call it.
An omniblade, the butt of a rifle or your fists are in my opinion the best options.
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