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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 22, 2016 23:02:20 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because that is in the very core of Andromeda.
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Post by Pearl on Nov 22, 2016 23:13:22 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because it's fun? A satisfying melee combat system provides more replayability than a cover-based shooting mechanic. There are only so many ways to shoot a bad guy, but when you have well-designed melee, you have more options available to you. And if you have both, it gets even better. Now is Bioware capable of creating a refined beat-the-fuck-out-of-them experience? Only time will tell, but seeing as melee is my favorite combat style, I'm optimistic.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 22, 2016 23:38:34 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because that is in the very core of Andromeda. How exaggerating. I wonder, do you plan to buy the game, or wait to see if there's something that might make you enjoy it.
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Post by RoboticWater on Nov 23, 2016 0:04:06 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because it's fun? A satisfying melee combat system provides more replayability than a cover-based shooting mechanic. There are only so many ways to shoot a bad guy, but when you have well-designed melee, you have more options available to you. And if you have both, it gets even better. Now is Bioware capable of creating a refined beat-the-fuck-out-of-them experience? Only time will tell, but seeing as melee is my favorite combat style, I'm optimistic. First of all, let's not play the "there are only so many ways to X" game. Shooting, and any other gameplay paradigm for that matter, is as versatile as the designer makes it. For every melee-based action game, I can guarantee you there's an equally deep and satisfying shooter. There's no need to be reductionist. More importantly, there are several supplementary gameplay systems that would enhance the replayability of a TPS far better and/or far more cheaply than a well-designed melee combat system. Why waste time on a bunch of flashy animations for different weapons when other mechanical systems would do?
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Post by helios969 on Nov 23, 2016 0:08:07 GMT
Personally, I liked how ME3 handled hand-to-hand. Simple and straightforward...and generally a nice way to get out of a tight bind if an enemy swarms you. I wouldn't be opposed to a more sophisticated and intricate system so long as it doesn't come at the expense of the core combat features. I mean anything that provides potential for additional playthroughs is a good thing, regardless of how stupid and unrealistic employing hand-to-hand combat is while engaging in 28th/29th Century warfare. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me how others choose to play their game. But again not at the expense of the core combat features. And absolutely if some Khet or whatever starts hoping around while spinning a sword that should be an automatic interrupt prompt to pull off an Indiana Jones.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 23, 2016 2:11:17 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because it's fun? A satisfying melee combat system provides more replayability than a cover-based shooting mechanic. There are only so many ways to shoot a bad guy, but when you have well-designed melee, you have more options available to you. And if you have both, it gets even better. Now is Bioware capable of creating a refined beat-the-fuck-out-of-them experience? Only time will tell, but seeing as melee is my favorite combat style, I'm optimistic. Precisely.
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Nov 23, 2016 6:16:53 GMT
I just want space-swords...so I can pair them with space-magic to have space-spellsword (Now that I think about it, I don't know why I like that character archetype so much ) You're in luck, apparently the GI spread confirmed swords and hammers in ME:A. bsn.boards.net/thread/2270/gameinformer-article-threadTo step back into this discussion, I honestly don't understand where the "CQC in Mass Effect is unrealistic" crowd are coming from. Several people have already mentioned that barriers that only block high-speed strikes make slower moving attacks like H2H a more valid option. And how modern special forces get H2H training. But I'd say even more than that, you can't have a universe where vanguards can charge at relativistic velocity and not have a decently developed melee system. It makes no sense to charge up to someone just to pistol whip them or punch them in the face. Anyone who's going to hurl themselves in melee range of an opponent damn well better know how to engage someone in melee. And combined with aforementioned barriers, I'd argue this approach makes at least as much sense as a shotgun blast, and depending on the barrier/shield strength of the opponent, maybe more. Point being, you can't be okay with biotic charge but not a developed melee system without being contradictory. And if you think charge shouldn't exist either, then you're objectively wrong because biotic charge is the most fun ability in the game. As a tangential last point, gameplay-wise, melee attacks should bypass barriers/shields and do direct damage to armor/health. By ME lore, melee attacks shouldn't interact with kinetic barriers at all. I doubt this will be reflected, but it would be nice.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 23, 2016 10:58:15 GMT
Because that is in the very core of Andromeda. How exaggerating. I wonder, do you plan to buy the game, or wait to see if there's something that might make you enjoy it. The fact that the AI makes no sense and go against the trilogy lore will have absolutely no impact in my enjoyment of it. Indeed, it will have absolutely no impact in the game itself. It is pretty much a reboot and that's a good thing. Even though it remains to be seen how good the actual game will be. Not because of the premise of anything, but because of the talent of the people involved. They are certainly good people there, but I don't know if they are good enough to make a top tier game.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 11:02:50 GMT
How exaggerating. I wonder, do you plan to buy the game, or wait to see if there's something that might make you enjoy it. The fact that the AI makes no sense and go against the trilogy lore will have absolutely no impact in my enjoyment of it. Indeed, it will have absolutely no impact in the game itself. It is pretty much a reboot and that's a good thing. Even though it remains to be seen how good the actual game will be. Not because of the premise of anything, but because of the talent of the people involved. They are certainly good people there, but I don't know if they are good enough to make a top tier game. I disagree on the reboot and I want to see the AI in full before making my judgement, but fair enough. I agree on the last part though.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 23, 2016 11:05:18 GMT
How exaggerating. I wonder, do you plan to buy the game, or wait to see if there's something that might make you enjoy it. The fact that the AI makes no sense and go against the trilogy lore will have absolutely no impact in my enjoyment of it. Indeed, it will have absolutely no impact in the game itself. It is pretty much a reboot and that's a good thing. Even though it remains to be seen how good the actual game will be. Not because of the premise of anything, but because of the talent of the people involved. They are certainly good people there, but I don't know if they are good enough to make a top tier game. It would explain why the gameplay is underrated and boring @ Dragon Age.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 23, 2016 11:31:59 GMT
The fact that the AI makes no sense and go against the trilogy lore will have absolutely no impact in my enjoyment of it. Indeed, it will have absolutely no impact in the game itself. It is pretty much a reboot and that's a good thing. Even though it remains to be seen how good the actual game will be. Not because of the premise of anything, but because of the talent of the people involved. They are certainly good people there, but I don't know if they are good enough to make a top tier game. It would explain why the gameplay is underrated and boring @ Dragon Age. The two teams are different, and the two series have different concepts in mind regarding gameplay. Regardless if MEA's gameplay will be fun or not, it won't be related to DAI.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 23, 2016 12:28:54 GMT
I understand that everyone has their own line for suspension of disbelief, for me it's Omnibow for example, I just ignore it and hope it'll go away. But regarding melee-weapons we're kinda already there since ME2 (if not ME1), because we could easily get into melee range thanks to shields and barriers (and later Charge and Cloak). And if we're in melee range why not try something potentially more effective there than rifles? Frankly speaking it seems more realistic than some magically crafted omni-blades to me. I just want space-swords...so I can pair them with space-magic to have space-spellsword (Now that I think about it, I don't know why I like that character archetype so much ) As a tangential last point, gameplay-wise, melee attacks should bypass barriers/shields and do direct damage to armor/health. By ME lore, melee attacks shouldn't interact with kinetic barriers at all. I doubt this will be reflected, but it would be nice. I actually would love if they tried to make protection system more varied and tied to the lore. Like armor would protect from all kinds of damage but not crowd control; shields against bullets and biotics effects; barriers would protect from anything but only for a moment (since they are manually controlled and aren't disabled/enabled every 0.0001 seconds to save energy). But I guess I went off-topic.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Nov 23, 2016 14:41:31 GMT
Anyway. My point is that it looks stupid. Andromeda is already gearing up for Michael Bay stupidity. Why exacerbate? Because whats is fun and cool in a game takes precedence over situational realism.
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Post by Addictress on Nov 24, 2016 4:47:44 GMT
People don't seem to get that there is a critical mass of stupidity.
We already accepted a huge mass of stupidity and we've reached a tipping point.
What more do you want from me
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Post by Princess Trejo on Nov 24, 2016 16:59:57 GMT
Could use a good duel. Perhaps the aliens are weak when it comes to unarmed combat. Unless they are made of rocks... literally.
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Post by hammerstorm on Nov 24, 2016 18:12:53 GMT
I never played MP so I don't understand the interest of hammers and swords and what else they have there. BUT, I played as a vanguard and I loved to nova my enemies to oblivion. I never really used the other h2h things (beside in the beginning of me3 and cutscene) so I would not be so concerned if they want to create more of it. As long as I'm not required to use it. (or it looks stupid as when I fought the Shadowbroker ) P.S. I'm in the middle of the usefulness of h2h in mass effect. On one hand, close combat will always remain in war. on the other hand, it is a concern that they will go all medieval and bring in swords and hammers and axes and what not. And that is for me just ridiculous. TLDR: as long as I wont be forced to use it, I don't care. Just make it realistic. (in game, before people start)
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 25, 2016 3:45:10 GMT
This is what hand to hand combat should look like: And you know, the dream is actually closer now. They already said we will have melee weapons and with the focus of vertical combat who knows? That should be for Dragon Age.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 6:46:41 GMT
no please, no This is the 26th-28th century, at least. And even in the 22nd century, everything is long-range. Please. No ninja swords. No brawling. Just no. Don't. This. Or, mostly that anyway. I'm okay with there being some hand-to-hand combat attacks, but I would prefer it was situational and not something that could be a primary spec. Some degree of verisimilitude is lost when you have characters running around with swords and war hammers in a setting where high tech firearms also exist. Guns have made melee weapons obsolete. This is what should happen to any dork who brings a sword to a gunfight: If Bioware were to allow the main character to go with a melee spec, it probably wouldn't stop with being an optional thing for the main character, and there would also likely be at least one melee companion and enemies that favored melee as well. Please, no!
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 25, 2016 12:55:20 GMT
This is what hand to hand combat should look like: And you know, the dream is actually closer now. They already said we will have melee weapons and with the focus of vertical combat who knows? That should be for Dragon Age. Dragon Age lacks the awesomeness factor of wielding a Sharpened Helicopter Blade when you should have no right to use such a tool to inflict harm on people that have guns. And we know Andromeda will have dedicated melee weapons. That's why I said it's closer to happening.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 25, 2016 13:12:52 GMT
no please, no This is the 26th-28th century, at least. And even in the 22nd century, everything is long-range. Please. No ninja swords. No brawling. Just no. Don't. Guns have made melee weapons obsolete. You are looking at it from latest iteration of warfare. At some point full-plate armor made bows obsolete against it's owners. Until crossbows came in. Theoretically melee weapons would come in use if protection against range attacks simply reached certain point. And nobody knows what kind of material or other usable for protection stuff can be invented tomorrow.
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Post by Vall on Nov 25, 2016 13:21:49 GMT
no please, no This is the 26th-28th century, at least. And even in the 22nd century, everything is long-range. Please. No ninja swords. No brawling. Just no. Don't. This. Or, mostly that anyway. I'm okay with there being some hand-to-hand combat attacks, but I would prefer it was situational and not something that could be a primary spec. Some degree of verisimilitude is lost when you have characters running around with swords and war hammers in a setting where high tech firearms also exist. Guns have made melee weapons obsolete. If Bioware were to allow the main character to go with a melee spec, it probably wouldn't stop with being an optional thing for the main character, and there would also likely be at least one melee companion and enemies that favored melee as well. Please, no! But melee in Mass Effect isn't completely obsolete as long as they don't make guns that bypass shields and barriers. Kinetic shield and biotic barriers actually make melee at least slightly relevant, since shields stop fast moving objects (like bullets) but slow moving objects bypass them, so you can use them as ambush weapons, say for infiltrators with tactical cloak and weapons that don't run out of ammo, for example longer engagements as vanguard. So in mass effect, that Inidiana Jones situations would look more like, bullet gets absorbed by that arabian guy's shield and Indy gets ran through. Edit: and another thing, there were always enemies that want to chew your face off, so no difference there
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Post by bohemiadrinker on Nov 25, 2016 14:28:54 GMT
I really don't get the "melee is stupid" mentality. Like, at all.
A punch to the face is a punch to the face. Here or in Andromeda.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 26, 2016 6:22:24 GMT
This is the idealistic H2H in a futuristic setting instead of swords and hammers.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Nov 27, 2016 10:42:15 GMT
Hand Combat with swords/hammers:
Hand Combat with guns:
Make it that fluid and no complaints.
JUST DON'T make it dependable upon traits picked. Just because I pick engineer abilities please do not limit my hand to hand abilities. IF connected hand to hand abilities to class abilities are; then A LOT of replay-ability will go out the airlock.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 12:21:25 GMT
This. Or, mostly that anyway. I'm okay with there being some hand-to-hand combat attacks, but I would prefer it was situational and not something that could be a primary spec. Some degree of verisimilitude is lost when you have characters running around with swords and war hammers in a setting where high tech firearms also exist. Guns have made melee weapons obsolete. If Bioware were to allow the main character to go with a melee spec, it probably wouldn't stop with being an optional thing for the main character, and there would also likely be at least one melee companion and enemies that favored melee as well. Please, no! But melee in Mass Effect isn't completely obsolete as long as they don't make guns that bypass shields and barriers. Kinetic shield and biotic barriers actually make melee at least slightly relevant, since shields stop fast moving objects (like bullets) but slow moving objects bypass them, so you can use them as ambush weapons, say for infiltrators with tactical cloak and weapons that don't run out of ammo, for example longer engagements as vanguard. So in mass effect, that Inidiana Jones situations would look more like, bullet gets absorbed by that arabian guy's shield and Indy gets ran through. Edit: and another thing, there were always enemies that want to chew your face off, so no difference there The issue with melee in the Mass Effect universe is that if body armor can stop or deflect rounds travelling at speeds far exceeding those fired by modern weapons, old-timey weapons like swords would not stand a chance. They're not getting through that armor if rounds fired by mass accelerator weaponry sometimes can't. Another thing that makes melee weapons like swords obsolete, besides being less effective than firearms, is that they monopolize the use of a person's hands. In order to use a sword you'd have to abandon using an assault rifle. It's trading a stronger weapon that can kill people hundreds of meters away for a much weaker one that can only be used against enemies an arm's length or so away. On that note wish Gunnery Sgt. Hartman could do a Mass Effect 3 Let's Play. The Citadel coup would be so much fun.... Yelling at monitor: "WHY IS KAI LENG HOLDING THAT WEAPON?! WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, NUMB-NUTS?! WHY AREN'T YOU SHOOTING KAI LENG'S GUTS OUT, COMMANDER SHEPARD?!!"
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