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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 18:55:31 GMT
I found it the most healthy romance in the game to be honest, and it also showed character development for both Ryder and Jaal. BW tends to create romances that have heavy shit tied to them with fatal consequences based on choices you make, but with Jaal it was refreshing, natural and connected nicely with the main plot. Especially the big kiss they share in front of everyone, showing that unity between their species is possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 14:42:25 GMT
Because Liam is terrible, his jokes and attitude will make cringe every woman in a mile.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 6, 2017 18:04:48 GMT
Because Liam is terrible, his jokes and attitude will make cringe every woman in a mile. You should go to the Liam thread
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Post by smellycatbutts on Jun 6, 2017 22:11:39 GMT
I would like to apologize in advance for this stupid question. To start this off, I'd like to say that I really enjoy Jaal as a companion and this is not an attempt to bash him. I'm simply looking for some clarification here, to help disperse my confusion. I couldn't help but notice that Jaal has gained quite the gathering of fangirls. He is by far the most popular romance in the game, and some people are calling him the new Solas (Which I don't get, by the way, because him and Solas are nothing alike? Like, at all? ). This attraction to Jaal is something that completely eludes me, honestly. He's a nice person, sure, and he's got that quirky charm, but I can't actually imagine ever fangirling over him. Anyone would like to tell me why he has become such a heartthrob? I would genuinely like to know. Normally, I understand where most fangirls are coming from, but in this case... Nope. Can't. Again, apologies for this ridiculous question Genuine curiosity took over me He's got the most content, most important story wise. Not really my type personally, and I know other women aren't into him. But know there are a lot of men who cam be into him.
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Post by mrpointy on Jun 7, 2017 2:12:39 GMT
I think its mostly that hes the "new guy" for the game. Hes not a bad character by any means, if not exactly my fav. If we're talking Recently tho, ppl are just happy about the m/m option change, which is a first for mass effect in terms of an alien character. I was kinda miffed about him being m/f exclusive at launch, but I kind of got over him. I like Drack better.
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Post by jediguardian on Jun 9, 2017 3:13:20 GMT
Because Liam is terrible, his jokes and attitude will make cringe every woman in a mile. You are so mean to call him terrible. What he did to you that make you hate him that much? Maybe he is not popular in the same level as Jaal but many girl and guy love him too.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jun 9, 2017 10:49:35 GMT
Because Liam is terrible, his jokes and attitude will make cringe every woman in a mile. If he's a turian, those are very endearing trait. The thing is, I often compared him to SWTOR's Koth. The difference is, I actually like Koth more than Liam... Koth at least have some principle and inspire loyalty and actually make good jokes.... Liam is too much like Garrus and I hated being manipulated to fix someone's screw ups. Jaal is charming and innocent at the same time. There's compassion, and trust. He inspired friendship and quite thoughtful. He's just lovable in a good way.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jun 9, 2017 11:15:52 GMT
I've never understood the fascination. I always found Jaal to be whiny, pathetic, and a real wuss. I take him along on occasion for sidequests, because his crying on the main quests just annoys the ever loving crap out of me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 11:35:25 GMT
If he's a turian, those are very endearing trait. Liam is too much like Garrus and I hated being manipulated to fix someone's screw ups. Jaal is charming and innocent at the same time. There's compassion, and trust. He inspired friendship and quite thoughtful. He's just lovable in a good way. Damn I really really liked Garrus. I found his "calibrations" quite funny plus he appeared to me like a renegade cop trying to serve justice without red tape. Liam on the other hand was trying to force himself and the other around to feel good and be positive with the result of screwing up royally and annoy the heck out of me. I didn't perceive any closeness between him and Garrus but maybe I'm wrong. If that's what BW was aiming to then I think they missed it completely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 11:53:22 GMT
If he's a turian, those are very endearing trait. Liam is too much like Garrus and I hated being manipulated to fix someone's screw ups. Jaal is charming and innocent at the same time. There's compassion, and trust. He inspired friendship and quite thoughtful. He's just lovable in a good way. Damn I really really liked Garrus. I found his "calibrations" quite funny plus he appeared to me like a renegade cop trying to serve justice without red tape. Liam on the other hand was trying to force himself and the other around to feel good and be positive with the result of screwing up royally and annoy the heck out of me. I didn't perceive any closeness between him and Garrus but maybe I'm wrong. If that's what BW was aiming to then I think they missed it completely. I find them similar, and the only thing I liked about Garrus was a friendship shooting scene in ME3 or was it in ME2? But I don't like it when pc wins by default through convo options, not actually doing anything, so I don't like these trend in bonding quests. The only one where it was okay with me was with Vetra because at least you see jump jet activated. With Cullen and Garrus, it's not really anything you do, except saying like Reyes bang, bang, I win.
Anyway, I am in the minority of female gamers that did not romance Garrus and have no use for Jaal. I also was not that crazy about Solas, picked Cullen over him, and don't get it what is so appealing about both tbh. Solas is okay, but you basically have to start kissing him very early on, and Cullen is nice but boring.
Thane, Anders, Alistair and Reyes are my top picks, and I find Liam more endearing than Garrus.
Still, going to another galaxy to romance Liam sounds rather underwhelming. I get it that he represents the normality, and that's the last thing I expect or want in Andromeda. I hoped that Jaal would supply that, but ye gods... not really.
all I hoped for from Jaal was that his bi conversion will proved Bio with some much needed good will, warm and fuzzy, but nope, apparently not either. They would have spend their money better on giving Cora long hair and adding a femme fatale human female for men to appease the old boys club.
Or, maybe, the romance shtick is finally growing old, and it needs to be scaled back down to Origins/DA2 level so romances stop being dime a dozen & actually start meaning something other than waiting for a kissy/they are nekkid cutscene
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jun 9, 2017 13:08:24 GMT
The thing is I never really see Garrus serving justice. He complained about rules and regulation but I'm surprised how he didn't seem to value law and order despite his talk about justice. He thinks he can do whatever he wants including brutality against his suspect, recklessness and murder and justified it so he could have the upper hand of being righteous. But he's endlessly charming, which made the very morally questionable things that he did seems somewhat harmless because he made it sounds so cool and amazing... (which is also a trait of narcissistic sociopath...)
Liam personality is similar to Koth; he's weirdly optimistic, supportive and when he believe in something larger that life, believe in serving others for the right cause and not just himself and he wouldn't mind voicing out his opinion. However, his charming personality, sexy accent, background and erratic behavior mirrored Garrus. From his old job, to his family, his relationship with his own team, his relationship to Tempest crew. Sometimes he think what he's doing things that he think its for the right reasons and it clouded his judgement and ended up with him justifying recklessness. But he don't degrade himself with casual murders just to look cool, he isn't a sociopath and never remotely too manipulative. The most he just come off as being jerkish. But when he made mistakes, he would apologize and try to understand the side of you. His romance also started of as awkward dorkiness but he's earnest about what he feels and there's a lot of depth and cute things even if lacking in actual sex scenes.
But in Andromeda, Jaal is a liason to the Angara and the main story is heavily about his people so the romance does add to the narrative of Milky Way species being able to find common ground with the natives (very Pocahontas-like). Some people like it, some people don't. I do find him fascinating but not enough to be interested in him romantically or sexually... but I do like Cathleen Rootsaert since she wrote ME3's Kaidan. Not many people give Kaidan a chance (especially after his cheating reaction) but thanks to her, he became the most developed romance in the trilogy. She like to write with a lot of depth and understanding of her characters and she can be very versatile with what was required (writing Jaal as a bisexual is nothing new) and she do like to write romance dialogues with a lot of subtexts. So I'm not surprised that Jaal is popular, she's a good romance writer who knows where to pull and to push and where to entice and when to be emotional. Jaal and his pretty big eye can be so enthralling.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:17:40 GMT
Too bad his voice actor does not match the enthralling quality of his eyes. I can't think of the worst LI VA off hand.
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Post by Melcara on Jun 9, 2017 17:08:36 GMT
Liam personality is similar to Koth; his charming personality, sexy accent Lmao.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 9, 2017 21:02:08 GMT
I'm gonna m/m him.
He's not in my very top of ME (companion, so out of 20-something of them) characters, but he's around the top of MEA ones.
He has an internal-game arc that doesn't necessarily (though still may) relate to future games. Can't say that for some others, who come off more like they're itching for a MEA2 to get to the real story.
I have a thing for the more newbie to the series, alien male characters. I'd (m/m) Garrus in ME1 but not after, Thane in ME2, even Javik ME3 (though uh, perhaps don't get into the sex; I appreciate how MEA is particularly respectful of alternative romance climax - no pun intended - scenes).
I cringe at some aspects. Javik is particularly weirdly blushing-teen for an angara, I think, and a lot of his and angara overall traits seem straight out of what could be a feminist/social justice handbook (with just barely enough 'edge' added; justified just by all the disasters that happened to them over years/decades/centuries). But the gist of his story is the most of what I like in what's in MEA. I wanted to explore, even if it is difficult. I wanted to see new things, even if I'm bringing the old things along. I wanted to forge new relationships (friendly, rivalry, or otherwise). The sex I've seen is in m/m Jaal, is but a bonus.
I also chose him because he seems most likely to become antagonist in a future game, and I drink in that drama.
Sure Cora may very well start a Neo-Cerberus organization for all I know , but even that is more likely to be a Cerberus-Lite (IMO) instead of something more disturbing and like a certain character in DAI.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 9, 2017 21:04:27 GMT
He has literally the most content for a female ryder to romance a man. So if you want your ryder to fuck a dude you have Jaal or Reyes. I haven't done Liam's, but from what I hear his is pretty short too. So really Jaal is the most content heavy. Reyes is one romance I love too, but his content is shorter. Still hoping for DLC content that expands Gil more than, say, Reyes or especially Jaal (in this case). I'm actually.. ok with Reyes amount of content. But more because I'd hope he's a bigger part of a next game no matter what, so this game's romance is but an optional backstory before the main event. Ha.
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 9, 2017 22:20:39 GMT
Or, maybe, the romance shtick is finally growing old, and it needs to be scaled back down to Origins/DA2 level so romances stop being dime a dozen & actually start meaning something other than waiting for a kissy/they are nekkid cutscen I wouldn't say they need to scale back options, that would seem to be going backwards, but the formula has gotten a bit tired, with the same old flirting a few times on the ship, kiss scene, etc. That's why I liked Reyes, short, but sort of woven into the story in a fresh way. I'd say they just need to think more outside the box, a little, add some surprises.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 22:50:09 GMT
Or, maybe, the romance shtick is finally growing old, and it needs to be scaled back down to Origins/DA2 level so romances stop being dime a dozen & actually start meaning something other than waiting for a kissy/they are nekkid cutscen I wouldn't say they need to scale back options, that would seem to be going backwards, but the formula has gotten a bit tired, with the same old flirting a few times on the ship, kiss scene, etc. That's why I liked Reyes, short, but sort of woven into the story in a fresh way. I'd say they just need to think more outside the box, a little, add some surprises. The only thing they did truly differently from 1998 was out of party romance arcs (SWTOR) that they have repeated with Reyes. I would not call going back to what we have seen in ME2, Origins and DA2 going backward. At this point there is just no way to do the whole vaunted 2/2/2 while preserving the plot-relevance. 2/2/2 - that's your entire companion cast, and all of them being tied to the main plot in a major way with and without romantic subplot? In both the origins and DA2 two characters in each game were fairly strongly plot relevant & mostly in the ending of the game (and w/o a sequel to worry about due to "we'll change the protagonist next time structure). And even with Reyes, the first thing people demand is "make him a companion!!!" and the moment he becomes a companion, not his own person who can pop in during any quest without having to be taken into the party, his content becomes marginalized and he becomes yet another has-been in the long chain of SWTOR-like has-beens underlings. Much like Andronikus Revel. I am uncertain of what's they are going to do now.
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 9, 2017 23:06:37 GMT
I wouldn't say they need to scale back options, that would seem to be going backwards, but the formula has gotten a bit tired, with the same old flirting a few times on the ship, kiss scene, etc. That's why I liked Reyes, short, but sort of woven into the story in a fresh way. I'd say they just need to think more outside the box, a little, add some surprises. The only thing they did truly differently from 1998 was out of party romance arcs (SWTOR) that they have repeated with Reyes. I would not call going back to what we have seen in ME2, Origins and DA2 going backward. At this point there is just no way to do the whole vaunted 2/2/2 while preserving the plot-relevance. 2/2/2 - that's your entire companion cast, and all of them being tied to the main plot in a major way with and without romantic subplot? In both the origins and DA2 two characters in each game were fairly strongly plot relevant & mostly in the ending of the game (and w/o a sequel to worry about due to "we'll change the protagonist next time structure). And even with Reyes, the first thing people demand is "make him a companion!!!" and the moment he becomes a companion, not his own person who can pop in during any quest without having to be taken into the party, his content becomes marginalized and he becomes yet another has-been in the long chain of SWTOR-like has-beens underlings. Much like Andronikus Revel. I am uncertain of what's they are going to do now. Well, I haven't played SWTOR myself, but one way they could do it is having a main story arc around each planet/hub you visit, where a character or two takes center stage in that plot arc. Which they actually used to do and should be doing anyway. I did think that was one of the strengths of Jaal, where he felt plot important for the Angara and on certain planets, and Reyes is obviously part of the Kadara arc, but the same could have been done with other companions or crew. The game could have used more meaningful story and side content on some of those other locations. Edit: And I think people mostly want Reyes for squad because they want more content, and unfortunately so far in ME, squad members are still given more content. There's no reason that has to be the case though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 23:17:25 GMT
The only thing they did truly differently from 1998 was out of party romance arcs (SWTOR) that they have repeated with Reyes. I would not call going back to what we have seen in ME2, Origins and DA2 going backward. At this point there is just no way to do the whole vaunted 2/2/2 while preserving the plot-relevance. 2/2/2 - that's your entire companion cast, and all of them being tied to the main plot in a major way with and without romantic subplot? In both the origins and DA2 two characters in each game were fairly strongly plot relevant & mostly in the ending of the game (and w/o a sequel to worry about due to "we'll change the protagonist next time structure). And even with Reyes, the first thing people demand is "make him a companion!!!" and the moment he becomes a companion, not his own person who can pop in during any quest without having to be taken into the party, his content becomes marginalized and he becomes yet another has-been in the long chain of SWTOR-like has-beens underlings. Much like Andronikus Revel. I am uncertain of what's they are going to do now. Well, I haven't played SWTOR myself, but one way they could do it is having a main story arc around each planet/hub you visit, where a character or two takes center stage in that plot arc. Which they actually used to do and should be doing anyway. I did think that was one of the strengths of Jaal, where he felt plot important for the Angara and on certain planets, and Reyes is obviously part of the Kadara arc, but the same could have been done with other companions or crew. The game could have used more meaningful story and side content on some of those other locations. That what they did in SWTOR. Some planetary story offered out of party romantic arcs either as a part of the Faction Planetary Story Line or a Class Story Line. At least three of the Class Story Line LI (not companions) made second or third appearance during the story. I like Jaal's place in the game and how his romance is structured, just not the romance itself. But the more characters you try to build into the plot like this, the harder it becomes to thread the romance through the entire game. You might miss most of the romantic content if you do not have your LI with you. Out of party character is ideal in that respect because he or she can show up as s/he pleases without Player having to metagame. But if you start forcing the out of party character to show up too often, it can drive the player who is not madly in love with him/her to distraction. I am still dreaming of choking Morrigan with my bare hands while I am sure the entire manhood that played the game can't get enough.
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 9, 2017 23:34:25 GMT
But if you start forcing the out of party character to show up too often, it can drive the player who is not madly in love with him/her to distraction. I am still dreaming of choking Morrigan with my bare hands while I am sure the entire manhood that played the game can't get enough. Oh snap, don't touch my Morrigan. Personally I don't mind so much having more quality over quantity, and I even prefer a romantic scene, like the dancing with Reyes, or cuddling with Cora, over a sex scene. I think the romance arcs need not be long or huge content wise to be meaningful.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 23:50:07 GMT
But if you start forcing the out of party character to show up too often, it can drive the player who is not madly in love with him/her to distraction. I am still dreaming of choking Morrigan with my bare hands while I am sure the entire manhood that played the game can't get enough. Oh snap, don't touch my Morrigan. Personally I don't mind so much having more quality over quantity, and I even prefer a romantic scene, like the dancing with Reyes, or cuddling with Cora, over a sex scene. I think the romance arcs need not be long or huge content wise to be meaningful. Oi, I so prefer dancing and an imaginative kissing to sex scene, I can't even begin to... Seriously, in SWTOR, I still remember a Smuggler going on her tip-toes to gently kiss Corso Riggs and a scene where Ashara turns away in anger from the Inquisitor, and he walks over and hugs her from behind, I swear I'd trade every nekkid scene for that one. And, tbh, I need nothing at all but a dialogue that turns my heart inside out judging by my devotion to Bao Dur and his actions as well as " the longest you have looked at me" monologue in KOTOR2. Only DA2 managed to create a stronger impression of a male companion in love with the PC with Anders than Bao was with the Exile. EDIT: And speaking of that other Inquisitor, a star-crossed love story like with Ashara, I know the males did not dig it, but I've just loved it.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jun 10, 2017 8:09:04 GMT
I don't find its really necessary to make LI a squadmate just to enjoy the romance. I don't mind losing Kaidan in ME2 and then only to have him absent half of ME3. I do love Reyes romance especially with how it work out for my Professional Ryder who wouldn't dare to sleep with her subordinate.. as if everyone doesn't take her seriously as it is. And he is Nicholas Boulton, I've already worshiped him.
I also love romancing Cullen, who isn't part of the squadmate and yet as the Commander of the Inquisition he was deeply involved in the main story whereas all companions simply disappear during major scenes except him. But even I thought his disney prince romance can be sickeningly sweet.
In SWTOR, I've been wanting Arcann to be romanceable for over two years now even if he started out as an antagonist. Dashing damaged prince turned brooding emperor being completely obsessed with one girl who he was destined to fall and that she was his final fate. Naturally I do take that out of context by literally wanting the both to be destined for each other ...and I can't tell you how much I love the last expansion and how glad I am that people are opening up to the idea including the writers themselves.
Kiss scenes and sex scenes doesn't make romance a romance. As long as you have chemistry, it works.
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Melcara
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Melcara on Jun 10, 2017 20:10:43 GMT
I don't find its really necessary to make LI a squadmate just to enjoy the romance. I don't mind losing Kaidan in ME2 and then only to have him absent half of ME3. I do love Reyes romance especially with how it work out for my Professional Ryder who wouldn't dare to sleep with her subordinate.. as if everyone doesn't take her seriously as it is. And he is Nicholas Boulton, I've already worshiped him. I also love romancing Cullen, who isn't part of the squadmate and yet as the Commander of the Inquisition he was deeply involved in the main story whereas all companions simply disappear during major scenes except him. But even I thought his disney prince romance can be sickeningly sweet. In SWTOR, I've been wanting Arcann to be romanceable for over two years now even if he started out as an antagonist. Dashing damaged prince turned brooding emperor being completely obsessed with one girl who he was destined to fall and that she was his final fate. Naturally I do take that out of context by literally wanting the both to be destined for each other ...and I can't tell you how much I love the last expansion and how glad I am that people are opening up to the idea including the writers themselves. Kiss scenes and sex scenes doesn't make romance a romance. As long as you have chemistry, it works. Arcann wasn't really obsessed with her, he was obsessed with killing her. Quite a difference imo.
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aoibhealfae
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jun 10, 2017 23:56:55 GMT
Arcann wasn't really obsessed with her, he was obsessed with killing her. Quite a difference imo. "This isn't about you. It never has been. But I will do whatever it takes to destroy my father." Considering the possibility of Valkorion possessing your character fully, his father had terrorize the galaxy for a thousand years, caused massive wars and genocides, tortured many Jedi and Sith alike, could absorb billions of people's lives to fuel his power and immortality and kill planets and forever corrupt the force... Arcann is doing what he can to stop that from happening even if he's ruthless about it. Besides, what's the use of him straight up killing his father's vessel? His father could jump into another body again and its all over, . My Wrath hated Vitiate/Valkorion so much and she's endlessly frustrated with how everyone doesn't seem to be concerned with Valkorion still living inside her head and even Lana treat it as a non-issue for most of the game except Arcann. KOTFE is really just a long loyalty mission of earning Arcann's trust and saving him from further succumbing to the dark side. He joined up once you've proven yourself to him that you are strong enough not be influenced by Valkorion (and not kill his beloved mom is a definite plus) and regardless of the outcome of his character, he still fought to save you from Valkorion. Plus, he did save my Wrath's life when Valkorion ordered him to kill her and he did interrupt Valkorion's soul transference ritual by keeping her in carbonite, Arcann is always her knight in shining armor.
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Melcara
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 241 Likes: 399
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Sept 15, 2018 15:37:27 GMT
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melcara
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Melcara on Jun 11, 2017 0:29:47 GMT
Arcann wasn't really obsessed with her, he was obsessed with killing her. Quite a difference imo. "This isn't about you. It never has been. But I will do whatever it takes to destroy my father." Considering the possibility of Valkorion possessing your character fully, his father had terrorize the galaxy for a thousand years, caused massive wars and genocides, tortured many Jedi and Sith alike, could absorb billions of people's lives to fuel his power and immortality and kill planets and forever corrupt the force... Arcann is doing what he can to stop that from happening even if he's ruthless about it. Besides, what's the use of him straight up killing his father's vessel? His father could jump into another body again and its all over, . My Wrath hated Vitiate/Valkorion so much and she's endlessly frustrated with how everyone doesn't seem to be concerned with Valkorion still living inside her head and even Lana treat it as a non-issue for most of the game except Arcann. KOTFE is really just a long loyalty mission of earning Arcann's trust and saving him from further succumbing to the dark side. He joined up once you've proven yourself to him that you are strong enough not be influenced by Valkorion (and not kill his beloved mom is a definite plus) and regardless of the outcome of his character, he still fought to save you from Valkorion. Plus, he did save my Wrath's life when Valkorion ordered him to kill her and he did interrupt Valkorion's soul transference ritual by keeping her in carbonite, Arcann is always her knight in shining armor. Yup, exactly. Arcann wanted to kill the Outlander because his father was in their head. That was the only reason why he ever cared about them. And he didn't want to kill his father because of some noble intentions either, he wanted to prove that he was better than daddy. He spared their life because he needed someone to frame for Valkorion's murder. KOTFE and KOTET were huge disappointmens for me. Arcann's redemption felt pretty forced and rushed. I mean, he turned good because of a magic ritual in a matter of a few seconds. He didn't even choose to be redeemed, Senya made that choice for him. I was hoping they would come up with some interesting twist, like Thexan turning out to be alive and then joining the Outlander to help them defeat Valkorion and redeem Arcann, which would actually be a touching and deeply personal story. But nope, didn't happen. So much potential wasted.
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