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Post by colfoley on May 15, 2017 23:25:16 GMT
Ryder is simply Bioware's answer to toxic masculinity. Even if you played FemShep, she was a total bad-ass alpha personality. Ryder is your hipster beta-male/female replacement, if you had any doubt just checkout that new "casual" outfit. I mean half the time I was just waiting for the mouse button to light up so I could punch an idiot in the face when I was getting called weak, unprepared, or a moron by Random_NPC_01. Instead, you are literally forced to be nice to these people, when in MET, as Shepard you could at least be an asshole right back, if they didn't allow you to be openly violent. It's funny too, because Bioware has no problem with you killing 1,000's of bad guys, but when it becomes conversation time, it's back to being forced into beta-boy/girl roles. Snark and Comedy are great to break up tense moments in a story, over use them though, and it turns into a Sitcom, which is what ME:A did. You could get away with a lot of that stuff because you're a spectre. If you punched someone like Addison, you'll most likely have your Pathfinder status revoked. The thought occured to me though...since Shepard could revoke their Spectre status in ME 2, that would have basically been declaring themselves supportive of a terrorist organization, a known member in fact, without even the justification of being a Spectre. Which means the Council should have thrown them in jail, and it would have made a lot of political sense too. Especially in some circumstances. Everyone loves a good 'hero falls from grace' story. And if Shepard killed the Council in ME 1 it would have been politically expedient too. Oh well, just another weakness of BioWare writing in service of the Shepard.
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Post by mordrek on May 15, 2017 23:38:43 GMT
Ryder is simply Bioware's answer to toxic masculinity. Even if you played FemShep, she was a total bad-ass alpha personality. Ryder is your hipster beta-male/female replacement, if you had any doubt just checkout that new "casual" outfit. I mean half the time I was just waiting for the mouse button to light up so I could punch an idiot in the face when I was getting called weak, unprepared, or a moron by Random_NPC_01. Instead, you are literally forced to be nice to these people, when in MET, as Shepard you could at least be an asshole right back, if they didn't allow you to be openly violent. It's funny too, because Bioware has no problem with you killing 1,000's of bad guys, but when it becomes conversation time, it's back to being forced into beta-boy/girl roles. Snark and Comedy are great to break up tense moments in a story, over use them though, and it turns into a Sitcom, which is what ME:A did. what was that? My Ryder can't b hear you popping kett heads at 200 meters. The muzzle report is very loud. lol, classic, not reading the comment before you post, nice job fanboy.
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Post by colfoley on May 15, 2017 23:41:58 GMT
what was that? My Ryder can't b hear you popping kett heads at 200 meters. The muzzle report is very loud. lol, classic, not reading the comment before you post, nice job fanboy. I read it. The reading of your comment did not change my comment one iota. Your argument is incredibly weak in the face of overwhelming evidence. So, I could try arguing with you, which I know to be a futile excercise, or I could be flippant. I went with flippant that time.
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Uncle Cyan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 15, 2017 23:50:31 GMT
You could get away with a lot of that stuff because you're a spectre. If you punched someone like Addison, you'll most likely have your Pathfinder status revoked. The thought occured to me though...since Shepard could revoke their Spectre status in ME 2, that would have basically been declaring themselves supportive of a terrorist organization, a known member in fact, without even the justification of being a Spectre. Which means the Council should have thrown them in jail, and it would have made a lot of political sense too. Especially in some circumstances. Everyone loves a good 'hero falls from grace' story. And if Shepard killed the Council in ME 1 it would have been politically expedient too. Oh well, just another weakness of BioWare writing in service of the Shepard. It's intelligent responses like that FORCE me to rethink my opinion. You and Smilesja. It's hard to bridge that gap for one to see just the overall view as opposed to the inner-working and construction of the story itself. You guys make me jump that gap and I still don't agree with you, but at least I better understand you.
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N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 15, 2017 23:52:56 GMT
What I'm getting from this thread is that you all hated Purple Hawke and don't want a young and inexperienced protagonist with a penchant for making jokes I never played DA2, if that's supposed to be a referrence. Ir's rather in the handling and not in the premise. The kind of words they make your character say or the number of interrupts or absence thereoff. Apart from the fact that you can't really see what your character is about to say. there are some cringeworthy jokes hidden beneath a seemingly normal reply. So bad actually that even your sqadmates go ugh when your character delivers their lines. So one can't say the devs weren't aware of that. Some youtuber, I think it was YongYea, even compared some of the game's conversations with a sitcom and underlayed the ingame footage with canned laughter. I think it hits the nail on the head. And that's not to say, you can't insert humor. I have no problem with the Nomad banter, but I sure have a problem when it's used in the most inopportune moments.Lack of polishing or director input. Period. No one is going to change my mind on this.
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Post by colfoley on May 15, 2017 23:56:09 GMT
The thought occured to me though...since Shepard could revoke their Spectre status in ME 2, that would have basically been declaring themselves supportive of a terrorist organization, a known member in fact, without even the justification of being a Spectre. Which means the Council should have thrown them in jail, and it would have made a lot of political sense too. Especially in some circumstances. Everyone loves a good 'hero falls from grace' story. And if Shepard killed the Council in ME 1 it would have been politically expedient too. Oh well, just another weakness of BioWare writing in service of the Shepard. It's intelligent responses like that FORCE me to rethink my opinion. You and Smilesja. It's hard to bridge that gap for one to see just the overall view as opposed to the inner-working and construction of the story itself. You guys make me jump that gap and I still don't agree with you, but at least I better understand you. Which is all I care about at the end of the day, can't speak for smiles, but I view arguments the ideal argument as the need to express one's viewpoint. I'm not looking for conversion. I am not trying to convince anyone I am right I am just trying to say 'ok but this is my position, understand it.' Granted I do not always live this ideal, but I do try. Edit: Which is often, like to Kappo up there, I go 'help me understand your position I did not see how the auto dialogue was that intrusive in Andromeda, so help me see what I might have missed, help me understand.'
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Post by mordrek on May 16, 2017 0:00:58 GMT
lol, classic, not reading the comment before you post, nice job fanboy. I read it. The reading of your comment did not change my comment one iota. Your argument is incredibly weak in the face of overwhelming evidence. So, I could try arguing with you, which I know to be a futile excercise, or I could be flippant. I went with flippant that time. Of course it does. I pointed out the fact you kill 1,000+ people/robots during your playthrough, and yet your character acts like pussy during convo's. Your comment did nothing but laughably reinforce my own point. You just didn't bother to read it the first time, and stepped in it.
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2017 0:07:54 GMT
I read it. The reading of your comment did not change my comment one iota. Your argument is incredibly weak in the face of overwhelming evidence. So, I could try arguing with you, which I know to be a futile excercise, or I could be flippant. I went with flippant that time. Of course it does. I pointed out the fact you kill 1,000+ people/robots during your playthrough, and yet your character acts like pussy during convo's. Your comment did nothing but laughably reinforce my own point. You just didn't bother to read it the first time, and stepped in it. But your character does not act like a pussy during convos. Of course I suppose your definition of 'pussy' and my own are entirely different. After all we seem to be operating under a very different set of moral guidelines when it comes to dealing with these games. But Ryder can be assertive and professional in a lot of the dialog options, or not and get shut down by Tann, but that is the moral equivalent of a punk kid coming up and telling a successful millionare how tough and cool they are. But by the end of the game Tann treats Ryder very differently because Ryder has proved themselves. And this is not even touching all the borderline bad ass/ renegade/ and downright ruthless things Ryder can do in the narrative choices. So again, my comment does apply. My Bro has proven themselves time and again as a competent soldier within and without combat. Edit: And another thing I just realized. I suppose maybe you played 'your' Ryder like a pussy because you wanted to play a 'weak beta male', but I'm not playing mine like that.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 16, 2017 0:11:58 GMT
Let's stop pretending that renegade Shepard was punching people all the time. There was a renegade option in almost every dialogue, Ryder doesn't have that and she\he should.
Also, it's not like Addison or anyone on the Nexus has that much of a choice when it comes to selecting a new pathfinder. The game makes it pretty clear that transfering connction with SAM isn't that easy, otherwise you could transfer it to Cora right away. People on the Nexus are supposedly in a really big trouble and they can't really speak to you from position of power.
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2017 0:18:16 GMT
Let's stp pretending that renegade Shepard was punching people all the time. There was a renegade option in almost every dialogue, Ryder doesn't have that and she\he should. Also, it's not like Addison or anyone on the Nexus has that much of a choice when it comes to selecting a new pathfinder. The game makes it pretty clear that transfering connction with SAM isn't that easy, otherwise you could transfer it to Cora right away. People on the Nexus are supposedly in a really big trouble and they can't really speak to you from position of power. Perhaps not but there is plenty of renegade/ assertive dialog/ actions sprinkled throughout the game. Granted I suppose the argument could always be made 'we want more', but to say they don't exisist? Just seems like wilfull ignorance or a really twisted sense of morality. Something that excuses Shepard in their actions and applauds Shepard for being 'so bad ass' while criticizing Ryder who can do a lot of very similar things to the Spectre. (san punching reporters of course). The only reason this is even an issue in the first place is that BioWare did a rather terrible job implement the Renegade/ Paragon 'morality' meter in the OT. 2 of the three games the dialog system was barely servicable, one of them I would say is down there amongst the worse dialog systems I've ever played in an RPG right down there with the 'dialog system' in TW 3. And sure, I think the Renegade/ Paragon system is feasible...it worked relatively well in ME 2...but if BioWare can't make it work or make it work very poorly or don't clearly define the system (which they didn't in ME 1 and 3) then I am pretty glad they ditched it in favor of the new system. Which is one of my favorite dialog systems in an RPG.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 16, 2017 0:45:06 GMT
Let's stp pretending that renegade Shepard was punching people all the time. There was a renegade option in almost every dialogue, Ryder doesn't have that and she\he should. Also, it's not like Addison or anyone on the Nexus has that much of a choice when it comes to selecting a new pathfinder. The game makes it pretty clear that transfering connction with SAM isn't that easy, otherwise you could transfer it to Cora right away. People on the Nexus are supposedly in a really big trouble and they can't really speak to you from position of power. Perhaps not but there is plenty of renegade/ assertive dialog/ actions sprinkled throughout the game. Granted I suppose the argument could always be made 'we want more', but to say they don't exisist? Just seems like wilfull ignorance or a really twisted sense of morality. Something that excuses Shepard in their actions and applauds Shepard for being 'so bad ass' while criticizing Ryder who can do a lot of very similar things to the Spectre. (san punching reporters of course). The only reason this is even an issue in the first place is that BioWare did a rather terrible job implement the Renegade/ Paragon 'morality' meter in the OT. 2 of the three games the dialog system was barely servicable, one of them I would say is down there amongst the worse dialog systems I've ever played in an RPG right down there with the 'dialog system' in TW 3. And sure, I think the Renegade/ Paragon system is feasible...it worked relatively well in ME 2...but if BioWare can't make it work or make it work very poorly or don't clearly define the system (which they didn't in ME 1 and 3) then I am pretty glad they ditched it in favor of the new system. Which is one of my favorite dialog systems in an RPG. I said Shepard had it in almost every dialogue and Ryder doesn't ( have it in almost every dialogue). Honestly I think that even paragon Shepard was more assertive than Ryder. You get some renegade-like choices in sidequest etc. but it's quite rare given how much content and dialogue this game has and how often auto-dialogue ruins any kind of effort to make Ryder at least a bit bad ass. Sure, Paragon\Renegade system wasn't perfect and they should have made some changes, but replacing it with 2\4 shades of paragon makes it even more limited. Ryder is actually a fleshed out character with set personality, you can't really play him\her in a different way. On top of that, I really don't like not having any persuasion mechanic in the game.
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Post by mordrek on May 16, 2017 0:45:49 GMT
Of course it does. I pointed out the fact you kill 1,000+ people/robots during your playthrough, and yet your character acts like pussy during convo's. Your comment did nothing but laughably reinforce my own point. You just didn't bother to read it the first time, and stepped in it. But your character does not act like a pussy during convos. Of course I suppose your definition of 'pussy' and my own are entirely different. After all we seem to be operating under a very different set of moral guidelines when it comes to dealing with these games. But Ryder can be assertive and professional in a lot of the dialog options, or not and get shut down by Tann, but that is the moral equivalent of a punk kid coming up and telling a successful millionare how tough and cool they are. But by the end of the game Tann treats Ryder very differently because Ryder has proved themselves. And this is not even touching all the borderline bad ass/ renegade/ and downright ruthless things Ryder can do in the narrative choices. So again, my comment does apply. My Bro has proven themselves time and again as a competent soldier within and without combat. Edit: And another thing I just realized. I suppose maybe you played 'your' Ryder like a pussy because you wanted to play a 'weak beta male', but I'm not playing mine like that. Ryder is a pussy. You have four renegade options in the entire game, let Drack drop a Merc, kill Peebee's Lover, kill the Kett Nazi, and shoot the Angara Nazi. Woopty-doo. Who shits on you? Tann, Morda, Sloane, Addison, Angara Nazi, Archon, your own Team, and about 20 random_NPC_01's you run into. And the idea that Ryder is "assertive" is just laughable.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2017 0:50:54 GMT
Wait, the Archon counts? He's an evil space alien. If he didn't shit on the PC he wouldn't have a job.
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2017 0:51:26 GMT
Wait, the Archon counts? He's an evil space alien. If he didn't shit on the PC he wouldn't have a job. Ryder is supposed to be immune from such things.
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Post by mordrek on May 16, 2017 1:01:46 GMT
Wait, the Archon counts? He's an evil space alien. If he didn't shit on the PC he wouldn't have a job. He shits on you in the trope bad guy way... you walk into a trap, get paralyzed, he monologues, and walks off, leaving you to escape. It's B rated horror movie, crap.
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Post by setokaiba on May 16, 2017 1:02:05 GMT
Ryder is simply Bioware's answer to toxic masculinity. Even if you played FemShep, she was a total bad-ass alpha personality. Ryder is your hipster beta-male/female replacement, if you had any doubt just checkout that new "casual" outfit. I mean half the time I was just waiting for the mouse button to light up so I could punch an idiot in the face when I was getting called weak, unprepared, or a moron by Random_NPC_01. Instead, you are literally forced to be nice to these people, when in MET, as Shepard you could at least be an asshole right back, if they didn't allow you to be openly violent. It's funny too, because Bioware has no problem with you killing 1,000's of bad guys, but when it becomes conversation time, it's back to being forced into beta-boy/girl roles. Snark and Comedy are great to break up tense moments in a story, over use them though, and it turns into a Sitcom, which is what ME:A did. Must really suck looking at everything as some kind of SJW message. "My god the protagonist isn't a monotone robot and lack a sense of humor. DAMN YOU TWITTER AND ANTIA!"
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Post by smilesja on May 16, 2017 1:05:20 GMT
But your character does not act like a pussy during convos. Of course I suppose your definition of 'pussy' and my own are entirely different. After all we seem to be operating under a very different set of moral guidelines when it comes to dealing with these games. But Ryder can be assertive and professional in a lot of the dialog options, or not and get shut down by Tann, but that is the moral equivalent of a punk kid coming up and telling a successful millionare how tough and cool they are. But by the end of the game Tann treats Ryder very differently because Ryder has proved themselves. And this is not even touching all the borderline bad ass/ renegade/ and downright ruthless things Ryder can do in the narrative choices. So again, my comment does apply. My Bro has proven themselves time and again as a competent soldier within and without combat. Edit: And another thing I just realized. I suppose maybe you played 'your' Ryder like a pussy because you wanted to play a 'weak beta male', but I'm not playing mine like that. Ryder is a pussy. You have four renegade options in the entire game, let Drack drop a Merc, kill Peebee's Lover, kill the Kett Nazi, and shoot the Angara Nazi. Woopty-doo. Who shits on you? Tann, Morda, Sloane, Addison, Angara Nazi, Archon, your own Team, and about 20 random_NPC_01's you run into. And the idea that Ryder is "assertive" is just laughable. Tann, Morda, Addison and your team don't really trust you at first because you are kid who just inherited a huge responsibility. Through the course of the game is when you gain their respect.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2017 1:06:19 GMT
Wait, the Archon counts? He's an evil space alien. If he didn't shit on the PC he wouldn't have a job. He shits on you in the trope bad guy way... you walk into a trap, get paralyzed, he monologues, and walks off, leaving you to escape. It's B rated horror movie, crap. To be fair, he couldn't have anticipated an ace in the hole like SAM having so much access to Ryder's physiology. No one else in the galaxy would have possessed the ability to escape.
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Post by mordrek on May 16, 2017 1:08:33 GMT
He shits on you in the trope bad guy way... you walk into a trap, get paralyzed, he monologues, and walks off, leaving you to escape. It's B rated horror movie, crap. To be fair, he couldn't have anticipated an ace in the hole like SAM having so much access to Ryder's physiology. No one else in the galaxy would have possessed the ability to escape. To be fair, that is how that trope is used in every comic book, or movie, it's ever used in.
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Post by colfoley on May 16, 2017 1:09:35 GMT
Wait, the Archon counts? He's an evil space alien. If he didn't shit on the PC he wouldn't have a job. He shits on you in the trope bad guy way... you walk into a trap, get paralyzed, he monologues, and walks off, leaving you to escape. It's B rated horror movie, crap. the archon left because of an explosion and the lack of Communications. Sure maybe he could have v left a guard i suppose But the Pathfinder was very trapped. Oh and btw Ryder escaping actually proved to his advantage.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2017 1:09:40 GMT
To be fair, he couldn't have anticipated an ace in the hole like SAM having so much access to Ryder's physiology. No one else in the galaxy would have possessed the ability to escape. To be fair, that is how that trope is used in every comic book, or movie, it's ever used in. To be fair, the Archon obviously doesn't read comics or watch movies.
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Post by setokaiba on May 16, 2017 1:10:49 GMT
Being a dick can lead to the Asari pathfinder being replaced so if Ryder went around punching and murdering those he disagree with could get him in big trouble. Could Ryder be more ruthless? Sure it's possible but not to the level of Shepard.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 16, 2017 1:12:53 GMT
Being a dick can lead to the Asari pathfinder being replaced so if Ryder went around punching and murdering those he disagree with could get him in big trouble. Could Ryder be more ruthless? Sure it's possible but not to the level of Shepard. I kind of liked outing Sarissa just to see that other newbie asari raise her hand reluctantly. Of course, I left Sarissa as Pathfinder, but now she's never gonna get free drinks.
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Post by setokaiba on May 16, 2017 1:14:26 GMT
To be fair, he couldn't have anticipated an ace in the hole like SAM having so much access to Ryder's physiology. No one else in the galaxy would have possessed the ability to escape. To be fair, that is how that trope is used in every comic book, or movie, it's ever used in. To be fair Saren and Sovereign could have killed Shepard within the first hour or two of ME 1 but didn't because plot.
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Post by setokaiba on May 16, 2017 1:18:37 GMT
Being a dick can lead to the Asari pathfinder being replaced so if Ryder went around punching and murdering those he disagree with could get him in big trouble. Could Ryder be more ruthless? Sure it's possible but not to the level of Shepard. I kind of liked outing Sarissa just to see that other newbie asari raise her hand reluctantly. Of course, I left Sarissa as Pathfinder, but now she's never gonna get free drinks. I exposed her but kept her as pathfinder just because the only option was a mess and needed Cora to relax her and tell her what to do. Plus that ass on Sarissa.
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