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Post by griffith82 on Jun 17, 2017 20:50:53 GMT
I'd take DAO's chess piece combat over ME1's mockery of gunplay that's for sure. Yeah the combat in ME 1 did not age well.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 17, 2017 20:52:27 GMT
I'd take DAO's chess piece combat over ME1's mockery of gunplay that's for sure. I'd choose DA:O over ME1 in general.
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N3
Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
Origin: dasriboflavin
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 17, 2017 21:01:28 GMT
DAO's combat system was good. ME1's was okay. It's aged poorly, but it's far from the worst I've ever seen.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 17, 2017 21:32:43 GMT
DAO's combat system was good. ME1's was okay. It's aged poorly, but it's far from the worst I've ever seen. ME1 isn't the worst, but it's a bit of a confused mess.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 17, 2017 22:07:32 GMT
DAO's combat system was good. ME1's was okay. It's aged poorly, but it's far from the worst I've ever seen. ME1 isn't the worst, but it's a bit of a confused mess. It always felt like "my first shooter" combat. Since it was BioWare's first game that I recall used ranged combat exclusively.
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Post by sil on Jun 17, 2017 22:23:19 GMT
ME1 with ME3 gunplay would be one of the greatest games ever.
If only it could happen.
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jaegerbane
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 17, 2017 22:47:24 GMT
Remastering them would almost be a remake. At this stage nearly everything would have be remade for the new engine. Animation and gameplay would likely have to be reworked as well. It wouldn't be simple. There's nothing that would actually require a new engine. I suspect if all three games were brought up to ME3's level, with overhauled resolution, that would be enough. The Unreal Engine is still pretty extensible (just look at Arkham Knight and XCOM 2). Give me ME1 combat over MEA combat any day. Clunkiness and all, it's still much more enjoyable and replayable gameplay. Meanwhile gameplay in Andromeda gets boring and too repetitive that I lost interest in seeing the other half of Andromeda. Never mind replaying it, that's never going to happen. In a system as open and as flexible as MEA's, if you're finding it repetitive, then it's ultimately you at fault. You literally have the entire skill tree to mix and match (including probably one of the best implementations of telekinesis in a computer game there has been) plus a vastly more flexible weapon and melee system to approach combat with. Don't get me wrong, ME1 did a hell of a lot right and indeed, better than any subsequent game after it and MEA slipped up on as many things, but let's not go off the deep end here. ME1's combat was basically spam all active powers and hold down the fire button. You've got some very strange ideas with what makes enjoyable gameplay if you legitimately consider that better.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 17, 2017 22:50:42 GMT
Remastering them would almost be a remake. At this stage nearly everything would have be remade for the new engine. Animation and gameplay would likely have to be reworked as well. It wouldn't be simple. There's nothing that would actually require a new engine. I suspect if all three games were brought up to ME3's level, with overhauled resolution, that would be enough. The Unreal Engine is still pretty extensible (just look at Arkham Knight and XCOM 2). Give me ME1 combat over MEA combat any day. Clunkiness and all, it's still much more enjoyable and replayable gameplay. Meanwhile gameplay in Andromeda gets boring and too repetitive that I lost interest in seeing the other half of Andromeda. Never mind replaying it, that's never going to happen. In a system as open and as flexible as MEA's, if you're finding it repetitive, then it's ultimately you at fault. You literally have the entire skill tree to mix and match (including probably one of the best implementations of telekinesis in a computer game there has been) plus a vastly more flexible weapon and melee system to approach combat with. Don't get me wrong, ME1 did a hell of a lot right and indeed, better than any subsequent game after it and MEA slipped up on as many things, but let's not go off the deep end here. ME1's combat was basically spam all active powers and hold down the fire button. You've got some very strange ideas with what makes enjoyable gameplay if you legitimately consider that better. Except that engine is outdated and it would only make sense to remaster if you were going to use Frostbite or UE4.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2017 23:16:44 GMT
ME1 with ME3 gunplay would be one of the greatest games ever. If only it could happen. pretty accurate description of MEA all things considered. Actually before the game they claimed that they took the best from the three games and tried yo match it in MEA. And for the most part they succeeded. Granted the exploration in MEA wasn't exactly good...but then it wasn't in ME1 either.
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Post by sil on Jun 17, 2017 23:38:34 GMT
MEA exploration suffered from having quests that felt too much like MMO quests rather than interesting side stories. That and there were too few planets that were too big, of which 3 were deserts (or highly arid). So the exploration just wasn't there, as it didn't feel like we were exploring. Elaaden and the broken planet are the few times that it felt like we were exploring.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 17, 2017 23:54:50 GMT
MEA exploration suffered from having quests that felt too much like MMO quests rather than interesting side stories. That and there were too few planets that were too big, of which 3 were deserts (or highly arid). So the exploration just wasn't there, as it didn't feel like we were exploring. Elaaden and the broken planet are the few times that it felt like we were exploring. Idk I felt that way most of the time. Even on Havarl.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 18, 2017 1:00:09 GMT
Why? It was a good game.
When people start to pay attention at all the faults of a game, they're doing themselves a disservice.
This is entertainment.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 1:00:23 GMT
Remastering them would almost be a remake. At this stage nearly everything would have be remade for the new engine. Animation and gameplay would likely have to be reworked as well. It wouldn't be simple. There's nothing that would actually require a new engine. I suspect if all three games were brought up to ME3's level, with overhauled resolution, that would be enough. The Unreal Engine is still pretty extensible (just look at Arkham Knight and XCOM 2). Give me ME1 combat over MEA combat any day. Clunkiness and all, it's still much more enjoyable and replayable gameplay. Meanwhile gameplay in Andromeda gets boring and too repetitive that I lost interest in seeing the other half of Andromeda. Never mind replaying it, that's never going to happen. In a system as open and as flexible as MEA's, if you're finding it repetitive, then it's ultimately you at fault. You literally have the entire skill tree to mix and match (including probably one of the best implementations of telekinesis in a computer game there has been) plus a vastly more flexible weapon and melee system to approach combat with. Don't get me wrong, ME1 did a hell of a lot right and indeed, better than any subsequent game after it and MEA slipped up on as many things, but let's not go off the deep end here. ME1's combat was basically spam all active powers and hold down the fire button. You've got some very strange ideas with what makes enjoyable gameplay if you legitimately consider that better. I've always played ME1 as a Soldier. So no cheese power spams on my end. Just good old fashioned aiming and shooting. Even in ME3mp, I mostly played the weapon for like 3000 hours. In MEA the weapons all sucked, so I also relied on 3 powers that all could combo off each other (Energy Drain, Incinerate, Overload). The only enemies I've ever fought on my first 3 main planets were the same waves of robots and Kettle aliens over and over and over for 70 hours. On the same over and over cheaply copy paste bases. I kid you not. Outlaws weren't introduced until the 4th planet, but by then I've hit a brick wall with how crazy boring & repetitive this game was and just focused on priority missions to get this game over with before I lost interest in even that. Fun fact, it was the gameplay that kept pulling me back to ME1 when I first played it, there was just something about it despite how uber clunky it felt. Otherwise I would have given up on it before it truly pulled me in because ME1 started so slow. Same thing happened in MEA, it was the gameplay that kept me going, but... that didn't last. Man did it not last. Even MEAmp I can't go on with anymore, stopped at around 1600 APEX. So I'm sorry, but MEA overall on the gameplay front bombed hard. If you guys can't see this, you all must be looking at it from a more casual perspective or something, which is fine. But not me. I didn't play ME Trilogy 8x or 3000 hours into ME3mp because it was casually gameplay good enough.
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N3
Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
Origin: dasriboflavin
Posts: 275 Likes: 325
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Jun 18, 2017 2:06:34 GMT
DAO's combat system was good. ME1's was okay. It's aged poorly, but it's far from the worst I've ever seen. ME1 isn't the worst, but it's a bit of a confused mess. I think probably its biggest failing is power usage. So many powers, each with individual cooldowns, which were usually very drawn out. Combat involves so much pausing to issue commands, whereas with DAO, you don't have to worry so much about movement and positioning and therefore you can micro your party actions more easily. ME2 keeping the power allotments small and the cooldowns short dramatically improved the flow of combat.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 2:21:09 GMT
So all you "DAO combat is better then ME1" players are totally fine with playing DOA 8x within 4 years because it's combat is so fun to you guys? For me DAO once was enough and barely made it through that. Heck, I didn't have it in me to even to play it any further for the DLC content that came with my DAO copy. As far as I'm concerned, DAO combat is just typical RPG gameplay cannon fodder. Maybe good enough, but not replay value material.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 18, 2017 2:28:11 GMT
So all you "DAO combat is better then ME1" players are totally fine with playing DOA 8x within 4 years because it's combat is so fun to you guys? For me DAO once was enough and barely made it through that. Heck, I didn't have it in me to even to play it any further for the DLC content that came with my DAO copy. As far as I'm concerned, DAO combat is just typical RPG gameplay cannon fodder. Maybe good enough, but not replay value material. DAO's combat was certainly not its strongpoint, but then it wasn't ME1's either, I felt. But what DAO did much better that made it the overall better game for me was its more robust character focus and [vastly] superior writing.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 18, 2017 2:34:22 GMT
So all you "DAO combat is better then ME1" players are totally fine with playing DOA 8x within 4 years because it's combat is so fun to you guys? For me DAO once was enough and barely made it through that. Heck, I didn't have it in me to even to play it any further for the DLC content that came with my DAO copy. As far as I'm concerned, DAO combat is just typical RPG gameplay cannon fodder. Maybe good enough, but not replay value material. Not so sure if it's better than ME1, but I'd say it was better than DA2 and inquisition as it wasn't a hack and slash game where you constantly mashed buttons.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 18, 2017 2:40:51 GMT
So all you "DAO combat is better then ME1" players are totally fine with playing DOA 8x within 4 years because it's combat is so fun to you guys? For me DAO once was enough and barely made it through that. Heck, I didn't have it in me to even to play it any further for the DLC content that came with my DAO copy. As far as I'm concerned, DAO combat is just typical RPG gameplay cannon fodder. Maybe good enough, but not replay value material. Not so sure if it's better than ME1, but I'd say it was better than DA2 and inquisition as it wasn't a hack and slash game where you constantly mashed buttons.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2017 4:01:35 GMT
I thought dao combat was trash.
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 10:30:15 GMT
There's nothing that would actually require a new engine. I suspect if all three games were brought up to ME3's level, with overhauled resolution, that would be enough. The Unreal Engine is still pretty extensible (just look at Arkham Knight and XCOM 2). Except that engine is outdated and it would only make sense to remaster if you were going to use Frostbite or UE4. It's old, it's not outdated - as I said, plenty of current gen games still use it. And you're treating an engine change as a requirement of remaster when there's no sensible reason to do so (hell, I'm not even sure an engine change can technically be considered a 'remaster').
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Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 10:38:49 GMT
I've always played ME1 as a Soldier. So no cheese power spams on my end. Just good old fashioned aiming and shooting. Even in ME3mp, I mostly played the weapon for like 3000 hours. In MEA the weapons all sucked, so I also relied on 3 powers that all could combo off each other (Energy Drain, Incinerate, Overload). The only enemies I've ever fought on my first 3 main planets were the same waves of robots and Kettle aliens over and over and over for 70 hours. On the same over and over cheaply copy paste bases. I kid you not. Outlaws weren't introduced until the 4th planet, but by then I've hit a brick wall with how crazy boring & repetitive this game was and just focused on priority missions to get this game over with before I lost interest in even that. Fun fact, it was the gameplay that kept pulling me back to ME1 when I first played it, there was just something about it despite how uber clunky it felt. Otherwise I would have given up on it before it truly pulled me in because ME1 started so slow. Same thing happened in MEA, it was the gameplay that kept me going, but... that didn't last. Man did it not last. Even MEAmp I can't go on with anymore, stopped at around 1600 APEX. So I'm sorry, but MEA overall on the gameplay front bombed hard. If you guys can't see this, you all must be looking at it from a more casual perspective or something, which is fine. But not me. I didn't play ME Trilogy 8x or 3000 hours into ME3mp because it was casually gameplay good enough. This is all fair enough, but it still boils down to making out ME1's combat was much better than it was. I mean, you say that you were bored with Kett and Remnant but you were fine playing against just outlaws and Geth (who had far less variety) for the majority of ME1. You say that all the guns in MEA sucked but you were fine with far more basic versions (that didn't even use ammo and could literally fire forever). You never used powers in ME1 but 3 powers + combos was too repetitive. You hated the copy cut paste bases in MEA but the smaller copy cut paste bases in ME1 were fine. Every single metric you're using to say MEA was worse, it actually did better than ME1. As I say, you can have your own opinion on how fun the combat was in both games, but the logic you're using above makes no sense and I think you'll find very few people who'd agree that ME1's combat trumped MEAs. We can't all be just casuals or whatever that condescension was supposed to mean.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 18, 2017 11:32:39 GMT
As I say, you can have your own opinion on how fun the combat was in both games, but the logic you're using above makes no sense and I think you'll find very few people who'd agree that ME1's combat trumped MEAs. We can't all be just casuals or whatever that condescension was supposed to mean. One thing that ME1 trumps over MEA is the power wheel. The player is able to have one squadmate use whatever power on an enemy while the other squadmate uses whatever power on another enemy
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 18, 2017 11:50:32 GMT
Except that engine is outdated and it would only make sense to remaster if you were going to use Frostbite or UE4. It's old, it's not outdated - as I said, plenty of current gen games still use it. And you're treating an engine change as a requirement of remaster when there's no sensible reason to do so (hell, I'm not even sure an engine change can technically be considered a 'remaster'). The halo franchise is still using the very same engine as the one from 2001 combat Evolved. So yea, engines don't just get outdated so long as you upgrade it and such. Not so interested in a remaster cause I've already played the originals, remastered/remakes are nothing but fan service and a cheap way to get some quick money. However I don't think a remaster would "need" an engine upgrade, costs more doing that(redesigning everything in frostbite) than simply using the original engine, assets are already made in the UR3.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 14:55:20 GMT
I've always played ME1 as a Soldier. So no cheese power spams on my end. Just good old fashioned aiming and shooting. Even in ME3mp, I mostly played the weapon for like 3000 hours. In MEA the weapons all sucked, so I also relied on 3 powers that all could combo off each other (Energy Drain, Incinerate, Overload). The only enemies I've ever fought on my first 3 main planets were the same waves of robots and Kettle aliens over and over and over for 70 hours. On the same over and over cheaply copy paste bases. I kid you not. Outlaws weren't introduced until the 4th planet, but by then I've hit a brick wall with how crazy boring & repetitive this game was and just focused on priority missions to get this game over with before I lost interest in even that. Fun fact, it was the gameplay that kept pulling me back to ME1 when I first played it, there was just something about it despite how uber clunky it felt. Otherwise I would have given up on it before it truly pulled me in because ME1 started so slow. Same thing happened in MEA, it was the gameplay that kept me going, but... that didn't last. Man did it not last. Even MEAmp I can't go on with anymore, stopped at around 1600 APEX. So I'm sorry, but MEA overall on the gameplay front bombed hard. If you guys can't see this, you all must be looking at it from a more casual perspective or something, which is fine. But not me. I didn't play ME Trilogy 8x or 3000 hours into ME3mp because it was casually gameplay good enough. This is all fair enough, but it still boils down to making out ME1's combat was much better than it was. I mean, you say that you were bored with Kett and Remnant but you were fine playing against just outlaws and Geth (who had far less variety) for the majority of ME1. You say that all the guns in MEA sucked but you were fine with far more basic versions (that didn't even use ammo and could literally fire forever). You never used powers in ME1 but 3 powers + combos was too repetitive. You hated the copy cut paste bases in MEA but the smaller copy cut paste bases in ME1 were fine. Every single metric you're using to say MEA was worse, it actually did better than ME1. As I say, you can have your own opinion on how fun the combat was in both games, but the logic you're using above makes no sense and I think you'll find very few people who'd agree that ME1's combat trumped MEAs. We can't all be just casuals or whatever that condescension was supposed to mean. Uhm, ME1 has more enemy variety then MEA. No to mention you fight them in more controlled and thought out level designed environments too. And yes, the copy paste bases of ME1 were leagues better too, not to mention nowhere near as numerous and shoved down your throat literally every minute as in MEA. Within 70 hours I've also fought all enemies in ME1 while in MEA all I remember fighting is basically two robots and two kettle enemies for 70 freaking hours. For anyone who thinks gameplay is better in MEA then ME1, they've only played these games like casually once or twice. For everybody else, give it some more time.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 18, 2017 15:13:08 GMT
DAO's combat system was good. ME1's was okay. It's aged poorly, but it's far from the worst I've ever seen. ME1 isn't the worst, but it's a bit of a confused mess. If ME1 had better/smoother cover mechanics I think I would prefer its combat to any of the rest of the series. I find the overheating to be more interesting than the ammo mechanics, the more intricate skills system, and far better squad customization and control than any of the others. For me it is really just the cover mechanics that make it feel "clunky".
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