jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
Posts: 582 Likes: 1,110
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 19:06:01 GMT
Look, I only fought like 4 enemies types in this game. If this is actually true then you've played so little of the game then it's pointless discussing anything further.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:31:23 GMT
Alright. I find them to be about the same. They both recycle the same handful of enemies and structures over and over. I don't see hating one "far more" than the other though. MEA just puts more meaningless land to traverse between them. Right. But you're playing them with a smaller set of weapons, a smaller set of skills, with a combat system that doesn't allow you to jump or move as fast, against fewer enemies. As I say, I don't begrudge anyone preferring the overall ME1 package (I'm not far off that myself), but making an argument that ME1 did all of this better than MEA when it was lesser in every area comes across as weird. It crosses the line into silly when it's backed up with trash talking along the lines of 'I played a million hours, I know what I'm talking about, if you disagree with me you must have only played it once'. Well the more you play a game, the better you can judge it.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:41:12 GMT
I don't know which game actually has less enemy variety, but when I played through MEA, it definitely felt like enemy variety was severely lacking. However, part of that could simply be that I didn't enjoy the design or mechanics of most of the MEA enemies, unlike, say, ME3. The closest thing ME1 had to the faction system was the Geth, which had the full breakdown of basic troops, heavies, rushers, casters etc. This model was extended in the subsequent games. Other than that, ME1 had some basic mercs and a three types of Rachni and creepers, plus varren and Threshers. That was it. The later games had at least three distinct factions with a different overarching approaches. MEA didn't have much more variety than ME3 but was leagues ahead of the first two. In my 70 hours of this game I only really fought walking shooting robots and flying shooting robots. Or assault rifle kett, mini gun kett, shotgun kett and dogs. It was one or the other for 70 freaking hours, every single battle, every other minute.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:43:54 GMT
To be honest - Yes. For example - If you had seen one or two (planet based) underground bases, you probably have seen the layout of the majority of them. ME:A has a lot more variation. Of course you will see some Kett bases that are almost the same, but still there is a lot more variation. And while the vaults have a lot of similarity, they also have a lot of variation. No two vaults are the same. That cannot be said about the bases in ME1. Most of them where carbon-copy's from each other. I can kind of see the point that the various Kett/Exile/Remnant bases were mostly just reconfigured layout of the same basic building blocks. I just don't get why someone would argue this is not good enough, but be happy with direct carbon copies where everything was literally the same, even if the base belonged to different species. I mean, it wasn't far off DA2 levels of copying. It's not good enough because there are like a thousand of these exact same bases with exact same enemies. You've see one, you've seen them all. Now go do it for a thousand more times. Fun!
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:47:26 GMT
ME2 did a better job with enemies than Andromeda. Enemy variety is more than just the number of different enemies you have in the game. It's about how often you fight them, why you fight them, for how long, where, etc... ME3 is kinda king when it came to enemy variety. ME2 doesn't really come close. Yeah well ME3 is stupid easy too, so in the end it doesn't matter anyway.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:53:27 GMT
Look, I only fought like 4 enemies types in this game. If this is actually true then you've played so little of the game then it's pointless discussing anything further. 70 hours. 70 freaking hours of the most repetitive junk ever. Do I need to provide snapshot proof now? And do I need to also provide links to how others thought MEA was the most repetitive junk ever too? This game literally is fighting the same bases with the same enemies over and over x1000. None of the previous Mass Effect came close to this feeling of repetitiveness.
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
Posts: 582 Likes: 1,110
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 19:53:52 GMT
To be honest I don't really understand what you're arguing here - if you're saying that ME2 had the best quest design then... well, at least I could say where you're going with that. If you're saying enemy variety only matters if the quest design is up to snuff then perhaps, but that isn't really what is being discussed. You could say that. In short, what I'm saying is that ME2 has the best gameplay, the bes quest system as you put it. Because even if in some individual elements it was surpassed by ME3 and maybe even Andromeda, the sum of all the parts in ME2 worked better than in any other game in the franchise. And so, looking only at enemy variety can doesn't lead to any meaningful conclusion. I'm probably more on the fence about that. ME2's Loyalty and Recruitment missions really were some of the best, and the main quests were even better, but all this came at a cost of an incoherent and largely inconsequential storyline, as well as the entire space exploration aspect. The N7 missions were ok but were often over and done with so quick that they were almost pointless. One could argue that a lot about ME is the storyline and space exploration. This was one of the reasons why I enjoyed ME3 so much, tbh. It balanced ME2's quest structure with ME1's exploration aspect.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:54:09 GMT
To be honest I don't really understand what you're arguing here - if you're saying that ME2 had the best quest design then... well, at least I could say where you're going with that. If you're saying enemy variety only matters if the quest design is up to snuff then perhaps, but that isn't really what is being discussed. You could say that. In short, what I'm saying is that ME2 has the best gameplay, the bes quest system as you put it. Because even if in some individual elements it was surpassed by ME3 and maybe even Andromeda, the sum of all the parts in ME2 worked better than in any other game in the franchise. And so, looking only at enemy variety can doesn't lead to any meaningful conclusion. I agree. And it was the most balanced too.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 19:56:18 GMT
You could say that. In short, what I'm saying is that ME2 has the best gameplay, the bes quest system as you put it. Because even if in some individual elements it was surpassed by ME3 and maybe even Andromeda, the sum of all the parts in ME2 worked better than in any other game in the franchise. And so, looking only at enemy variety can doesn't lead to any meaningful conclusion. I'm probably more on the fence about that. ME2's Loyalty and Recruitment missions really were some of the best, and the main quests were even better, but all this came at a cost of an incoherent and largely inconsequential storyline, as well as the entire space exploration aspect. The N7 missions were ok but were often over and done with so quick that they were almost pointless. One could argue that a lot about ME is the storyline and space exploration. This was one of the reasons why I enjoyed ME3 so much, tbh. It balanced ME2's quest structure with ME1's exploration aspect. Of course. Can't prove anything gameplay wise, change the subject to storyline. Typical internet forum debating at it's finest. What's next, talking about graphics and special effects?
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
Posts: 582 Likes: 1,110
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 19:59:43 GMT
70 hours. 70 freaking hours of the most repetitive junk ever. Do I need to provide snapshot proof now? You don't have to do anything. I have no idea whether you really have played it for 70 hours, or only encountered 4 enemies, but you couldn't have done both. I just can't be bothered discussing it any further as you're not making any sense.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 20:09:41 GMT
70 hours. 70 freaking hours of the most repetitive junk ever. Do I need to provide snapshot proof now? You don't have to do anything. I have no idea whether you really have played it for 70 hours, or only encountered 4 enemies, but you couldn't have done both. I just can't be bothered discussing it any further as you're not making any sense. You missed a post; That's basically all I fought on the first 3 planets in a nutshell.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 18, 2017 20:11:05 GMT
70 hours. 70 freaking hours of the most repetitive junk ever. Do I need to provide snapshot proof now? And do I need to also provide links to how others thought MEA was the most repetitive junk ever too? This game literally is fighting the same bases with the same enemies over and over x1000. None of the previous Mass Effect came close to this feeling of repetitiveness.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 20:12:23 GMT
70 hours. 70 freaking hours of the most repetitive junk ever. Do I need to provide snapshot proof now? And do I need to also provide links to how others thought MEA was the most repetitive junk ever too? This game literally is fighting the same bases with the same enemies over and over x1000. None of the previous Mass Effect came close to this feeling of repetitiveness. Oh, now it all makes sense. MEA is da best gameplay evar!
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 20:28:54 GMT
Another issue with enemies in MEA. Basically the game blows it's load right out the gate in that you see all they enemies you'll be fighting for the next 70 hours in the very first training mission. So right from the get go the game lets you know the same enemies you'll be fighting from now on over and over. Meanwhile for other ME games you slowly get introduced to new enemies and mixed up better as to not to feel so repetitive and few. This is a tactic that has been used is games for a long time. ie. Anyone remember the original Golden Axe?
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 18, 2017 20:47:59 GMT
ME3 is kinda king when it came to enemy variety. ME2 doesn't really come close. Yeah well ME3 is stupid easy too, so in the end it doesn't matter anyway. The only difference here is that ME1 and 2 are more challenging at a lower level, but the reality is that they're all easy once you have the skills leveled up and have the better weapons. ME1 is probably the best example, because it becomes a total cakewalk well before the halfway point. The only truly challenging section of the game, I felt, was that goddamn krogan battlemaster on Therum. But once I had Spectre weapons and better armor, nothing could really touch me. But if I'm honest, it's not really the challenge of the combat that concerns me as much as the actual variety. I don't play Mass Effect for hard combat, because really, in singleplayer, it's never really all that hard. ME3 still has a wider array of enemies to make the encounters more colorful, so on that front I'd still consider it the best of the 3.
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jaegerbane
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 21:05:41 GMT
But if I'm honest, it's not really the challenge of the combat that concerns me as much as the actual variety. I don't play Mass Effect for hard combat, because really, in singleplayer, it's never really all that hard. ME3 still has a wider array of enemies to make the encounters more colorful, so on that front I'd still consider it the best of the 3. That. Having three completely different factions let the devs structure very different quests. The Reapers were great for any horror-themed quest. Cerberus were good for any action-based quests. The Geth let them do the whole Rannoch arc without cramming in Cerberus or Reapers when it didn't make sense for them to be there.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 18, 2017 21:09:18 GMT
The 3 juggernauts you encounter at the end before you call in the Normandy strike were more of a pain than I expected, especially since their drones can harass the hell out of you and drive you out of cover. ME2's piece de resistance is basically the Collector Praetorian, which was oddly spent early in the game.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: JaegerBane
PSN: JaegerBane
Posts: 582 Likes: 1,110
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 18, 2017 21:18:20 GMT
Tbh ME2's handling of the Collector faction was weird. The Praetorian's entrance was awesome, but one turning up once more in the game - and not turning up at all in the final mission - felt like it wasn't worked out properly. The collectors themselves only appeared three times. And the game never really quite worked out whether it wanted Collectors and Husks to be the same faction or not.
It's a shame really, as husks were so much better in ME2 than they were in 1. Easily the best N7 mission in the game was the one with the mine.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 18, 2017 21:25:00 GMT
I thought the husks in ME2 were really annoying, but I was disappointed that they lost the electrical AOE attack that they possessed in ME1. When I first encountered them in that mine in the surveyor mission, I didn't expect to be overwhelmed and zapped like crazy by them.
Regarding husks and factions, I think that was done on purpose so that characters would question exactly who made them at the time, since in ME1, people thought it was the geth.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 18, 2017 23:45:10 GMT
Yeah well ME3 is stupid easy too, so in the end it doesn't matter anyway. The only difference here is that ME1 and 2 are more challenging at a lower level, but the reality is that they're all easy once you have the skills leveled up and have the better weapons. ME1 is probably the best example, because it becomes a total cakewalk well before the halfway point. The only truly challenging section of the game, I felt, was that goddamn krogan battlemaster on Therum. But once I had Spectre weapons and better armor, nothing could really touch me. But if I'm honest, it's not really the challenge of the combat that concerns me as much as the actual variety. I don't play Mass Effect for hard combat, because really, in singleplayer, it's never really all that hard. ME3 still has a wider array of enemies to make the encounters more colorful, so on that front I'd still consider it the best of the 3. Crank the difficulty level then. What I did with each consecutive playthrough. Last I played I still found the difficulties fine enough on hardest, but as soon as you enter ME3sp it's complete cakewalk regardless of difficulty by comparison (especially if you play with all of them crazy broken DLC weapons which I never did because ME3mp is easy enough). And if anyone thinks challenge in ME3 is fine, you have blown your reputation with me in this discussion. ME3sp is terribly unbalanced and unbelievable easy to series vets compared to ME1, 2 and ME3mp.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 18, 2017 23:50:07 GMT
And if anyone thinks challenge in ME3 is fine, you have blown your reputation with me in this discussion. Oh God, really? That would be terrible.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 18, 2017 23:55:50 GMT
The only difference here is that ME1 and 2 are more challenging at a lower level, but the reality is that they're all easy once you have the skills leveled up and have the better weapons. ME1 is probably the best example, because it becomes a total cakewalk well before the halfway point. The only truly challenging section of the game, I felt, was that goddamn krogan battlemaster on Therum. But once I had Spectre weapons and better armor, nothing could really touch me. But if I'm honest, it's not really the challenge of the combat that concerns me as much as the actual variety. I don't play Mass Effect for hard combat, because really, in singleplayer, it's never really all that hard. ME3 still has a wider array of enemies to make the encounters more colorful, so on that front I'd still consider it the best of the 3. Crank the difficulty level then. What I did with each consecutive playthrough. Last I played I still found the difficulties fine enough on hardest, but as soon as you enter ME3sp it's complete cakewalk regardless of difficulty by comparison (especially if you play with all of them crazy broken DLC weapons which I never did because ME3mp is easy enough). And if anyone thinks challenge in ME3 is fine, you have blown your reputation with me in this discussion. ME3sp is terribly unbalanced and unbelievable easy to series vets compared to ME1, 2 and ME3mp. Personally every single ME game on insanity is fairly easy (ME1 being the hardest though but still pretty easy). It's all I ever play On because it's the best challenge available since they won't add super insanity or something harder.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 19, 2017 0:03:08 GMT
And if anyone thinks challenge in ME3 is fine, you have blown your reputation with me in this discussion. Oh God, really? That would be terrible. Alright, if it makes you feel better, others too.
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Post by Terminator Force on Jun 19, 2017 0:07:02 GMT
Crank the difficulty level then. What I did with each consecutive playthrough. Last I played I still found the difficulties fine enough on hardest, but as soon as you enter ME3sp it's complete cakewalk regardless of difficulty by comparison (especially if you play with all of them crazy broken DLC weapons which I never did because ME3mp is easy enough). And if anyone thinks challenge in ME3 is fine, you have blown your reputation with me in this discussion. ME3sp is terribly unbalanced and unbelievable easy to series vets compared to ME1, 2 and ME3mp. Personally every single ME game on insanity is fairly easy (ME1 being the hardest though but still pretty easy). It's all I ever play On because it's the best challenge available since they won't add super insanity or something harder. Well if we're flashing around our e-dongs like that, so is soloing Platinum of ME3mp. My biggest e-dong was a 36 min solo, no problemo. How bout you?
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 19, 2017 0:14:52 GMT
Personally every single ME game on insanity is fairly easy (ME1 being the hardest though but still pretty easy). It's all I ever play On because it's the best challenge available since they won't add super insanity or something harder. Well if we're flashing around our e-dongs like that, so is soloing Platinum of ME3mp. My biggest e-dong was a 36 min solo, no problemo. How bout you? I can't remember but platinum could be easy in the sense of not dieing at least if you did a lot of hit and runs, plus I was mainly an infiltration class(honestly I'd love to see a non infiltrater even try to do the missions where you have to activate 4 of the objectives where you sit there a good 10 seconds, seems like a good way to get shot at or get ohk)so it was hard to get cornered. Like I said, it was easy in the sense of not dieing, but it probably took 40-60 minutes to do so it was time consuming. i think MP difficulty is quite different than SP cause at least there's no horde mode in SP(unless you count pinnacle station inME1).
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