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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 0:56:09 GMT
here's the thing Ryder breathed it in out of shock. Alec had his helmet on and knew the atmosphere is unbreathable. Ask your self this, if you knew the air was unbreathable and took off your helmet to give it to someone else, would you as a season n7 space marine breath the air know it's effects? As a seasoned N7 who is getting old and knew holding my breath would possibly, at best, delay my death... Who wanted to die doing his job... I would probably use that time to explain some things to my son. Funny that, its exactly what Alec did. you need to replay that scene. He already left all the details Ryder need to know before he went on habitat 7. Saying anything other then for Sam to transfer pathfinder statue is pointless.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 0:59:16 GMT
But isn't rescue still a few minutes out? What's the longest someone can hold their breath? I'm pretty sure I'd die even if I said nothing. I added more toy response. My point is to not that he should live. Just that he should not of passed out as quickly. That's wrong though. He's an older man who just went through a huge fire fight and was thrown off a mountain. N7 training or not, he's not a prime candidate for holding your breath WHILE delivering his last words. He has a whole monologue that Ryder doesn't hear. A thing about speaking is that you may, from time to time, need to breathe in to continue saying what you were saying. Oh, yeah. That too, that's what Alec DID. You can SEE this happen from Alec's POV.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 1:01:23 GMT
As a seasoned N7 who is getting old and knew holding my breath would possibly, at best, delay my death... Who wanted to die doing his job... I would probably use that time to explain some things to my son. Funny that, its exactly what Alec did. you need to replay that scene. He already left all the details Ryder need to know before he went on habitat 7. Saying anything other then for Sam to transfer pathfinder statue is pointless. But he does. He continues breathing, and speaking to Ryder. His son, whom under the best case scenario in that situation, he probably wouldn't see again. Once more, you SEE this. This EXACTLY from Alec's point of view.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:02:09 GMT
I added more toy response. My point is to not that he should live. Just that he should not of passed out as quickly. That's wrong though. He's an older man who just went through a huge fire fight and was thrown off a mountain. N7 training or not, he's not a prime candidate for holding your breath WHILE delivering his last words. He has a whole monologue that Ryder doesn't hear. A thing about speaking is that you may, from time to time, need to breathe in to continue saying what you were saying. Oh, yeah. That too, that's what Alec DID. You can SEE this happen from Alec's POV. my point is that he did not need to and it made no sense to. There is no point to it. And speaking doesn't expel all your breath at once.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:03:03 GMT
you need to replay that scene. He already left all the details Ryder need to know before he went on habitat 7. Saying anything other then for Sam to transfer pathfinder statue is pointless. But he does. He continues breathing, and speaking to Ryder. His son, whom under the best case scenario in that situation, he probably wouldn't see again. Once more, you SEE this. This EXACTLY from Alec's point of view. I'm not saying it did not happen. I'm saying it should not happen.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 1:08:01 GMT
No, no no. Your point was that the air was sucked from his lungs based on a wiki article you half understood. And then it was that Alec didn't breathe the air like Ryder did so he wouldn't have asphyxiated. Then it was that Alec would have held his breath. Now its Alec SHOULD have held his breath.
And speaking doesn't expel it ALL. But just see how long you can speak before you need to take a breath.
Now do it as an aged man who just fought through an army and was hit by a blast from a teraforming machine.
You make less and less sense. Either way, Alec was going to die. He wanted to lament to his son instead of stubornly clinging to life for the slim slim chance that he might SOMEHOW (magic maybe?) survive that situation.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 1:14:20 GMT
But he does. He continues breathing, and speaking to Ryder. His son, whom under the best case scenario in that situation, he probably wouldn't see again. Once more, you SEE this. This EXACTLY from Alec's point of view. I'm not saying it did not happen. I'm saying it should not happen. Lol okay.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:20:29 GMT
No, no no. Your point was that the air was sucked from his lungs based on a wiki article you half understood. And then it was that Alec didn't breathe the air like Ryder did so he wouldn't have asphyxiated. Then it was that Alec would have held his breath. Now its Alec SHOULD have held his breath. And speaking doesn't expel it ALL. But just see how long you can speak before you need to take a breath. Now do it as an aged man who just fought through an army and was hit by a blast from a teraforming machine. You make less and less sense. Either way, Alec was going to die. He wanted to lament to his son instead of stubornly clinging to life for the slim slim chance that he might SOMEHOW (magic maybe?) survive that situation. 1. I did not based this on a wiki article. Just my knowledge on boyle'a law. 2.during that I did not take consecration to the planet atm. 3.I long since past on that theory and I just question how Ryder and Alec passed out so quickly on a planet with an atm simular to Eos. 4.We went into detail on what was in the atmosphere when I brought up argon and nitrogen is in the atmosphere of habitat 7. Two gas that are normally non poisonous but pointed out to cause Asphyxia in closed environments or in heavy amount. 8.it was then pointed out the Ryder did breath heavy amounts of it, which is true... 9. But still does not explain Alec who did not breath heavy amount of it in the length of Ryder. I not going on about the vacuum causing this. That end when habitat 7 atm was stated to be 2.3 atm. My question is now why Alec passed out so quickly.
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
Posts: 623 Likes: 1,858
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Exile Isan on May 14, 2017 1:20:56 GMT
The thing is that even if Alec did hold his breath, and didn't breathe in the poisonous atmosphere, there was still the possibility that lack of oxygen would leave him brain damaged, or still kill him, and then no one would know that Ellen was still alive in cryo, the Reapers hit the Milky Way, or about the Benefactor .
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:22:45 GMT
No, no no. Your point was that the air was sucked from his lungs based on a wiki article you half understood. And then it was that Alec didn't breathe the air like Ryder did so he wouldn't have asphyxiated. Then it was that Alec would have held his breath. Now its Alec SHOULD have held his breath. And speaking doesn't expel it ALL. But just see how long you can speak before you need to take a breath. Now do it as an aged man who just fought through an army and was hit by a blast from a teraforming machine. You make less and less sense. Either way, Alec was going to die. He wanted to lament to his son instead of stubornly clinging to life for the slim slim chance that he might SOMEHOW (magic maybe?) survive that situation. sure you have shorter breath but it's not seconds long. And remember, people in ME have longer peaks of enderance. Age is not going to be an effect on his performance.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 14, 2017 1:23:45 GMT
Well, from what we see in his memory, he didn't pass out as quickly, soooooo.....crisis averted?
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:23:57 GMT
The thing is that even if Alec did hold his breath, and didn't breathe in the poisonous atmosphere, there was still the possibility that lack of oxygen would leave him brain damaged, or still kill him, and then no one would know that Ellen was still alive in cryo, the Reapers hit the Milky Way, or about the Benefactor . he left that detail for Ryder before they left the milkyway. He even added more things before he went on habitat 7.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:25:03 GMT
Well, from what we see in his memory, he didn't pass out as quickly, soooooo.....crisis averted? he passed out as soon as the finished his statment. It was not even close to a min passed.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 1:27:11 GMT
No, no no. Your point was that the air was sucked from his lungs based on a wiki article you half understood. And then it was that Alec didn't breathe the air like Ryder did so he wouldn't have asphyxiated. Then it was that Alec would have held his breath. Now its Alec SHOULD have held his breath. And speaking doesn't expel it ALL. But just see how long you can speak before you need to take a breath. Now do it as an aged man who just fought through an army and was hit by a blast from a teraforming machine. You make less and less sense. Either way, Alec was going to die. He wanted to lament to his son instead of stubornly clinging to life for the slim slim chance that he might SOMEHOW (magic maybe?) survive that situation. 1. I did not based this on a wiki article. Just my knowledge on boyle'a law. 2.during that I did not take consecration to the planet atm. 3.I long since past on that theory and I just question how Ryder and Alec passed out so quickly on a planet with an atm simular to Eos. 4.We went into detail on what was in the atmosphere when I brought up argon and nitrogen is in the atmosphere of habitat 7. Two gas that are normally non poisonous but pointed out to cause Asphyxia in closed environments or in heavy amount. 8.it was then pointed out the Ryder did breath heavy amounts of it, which is true... 9. But still does not explain Alec who did not breath heavy amount of it in the length of Ryder. I not going on about the vacuum causing this. That end when habitat 7 atm was stated to be 2.3 atm. My question is now why Alec passed out so quickly. Alec passed out so quickly because after you see Ryder Jr. Pass out Alec goes on speaking for a few moments, and is struggling to breathe as he does. This is shown in Sam node, via Alec Ryder's memories. Alec would have succumbed far sooner than Ryder jr because he's far older, and had just lost the biological benefits of his SAM. They BOTH survived longer than expected while breathing in asphyxiants under heavy atmospheric pressure-and I'd say that was due to their rigorous training.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 1:29:19 GMT
Well, from what we see in his memory, he didn't pass out as quickly, soooooo.....crisis averted? he passed out as soon as the finished his statment. It was not even close to a min passed. It does not take an entire minute to succumb to an environment like that.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:35:21 GMT
he passed out as soon as the finished his statment. It was not even close to a min passed. It does not take an entire minute to succumb to an environment like that. and as I said before you have to breath it in first.aka expel all the oxygen in the blood stream.
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
Posts: 623 Likes: 1,858
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Exile Isan on May 14, 2017 1:36:44 GMT
he left that detail for Ryder before they left the milkyway. He even added more things before he went on habitat 7. Where? The memories? Memories that only get triggered and seen by Ryder because Alec transferred Pathfinder control (SAM) to Ryder right before he died? Same goes for Alec's encrypted logs. Alec was the only one that knew the truth, and if he hadn't given Ryder control of SAM before he died, that knowledge would have died with him.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:39:43 GMT
1. I did not based this on a wiki article. Just my knowledge on boyle'a law. 2.during that I did not take consecration to the planet atm. 3.I long since past on that theory and I just question how Ryder and Alec passed out so quickly on a planet with an atm simular to Eos. 4.We went into detail on what was in the atmosphere when I brought up argon and nitrogen is in the atmosphere of habitat 7. Two gas that are normally non poisonous but pointed out to cause Asphyxia in closed environments or in heavy amount. 8.it was then pointed out the Ryder did breath heavy amounts of it, which is true... 9. But still does not explain Alec who did not breath heavy amount of it in the length of Ryder. I not going on about the vacuum causing this. That end when habitat 7 atm was stated to be 2.3 atm. My question is now why Alec passed out so quickly. Alec passed out so quickly because after you see Ryder Jr. Pass out Alec goes on speaking for a few moments, and is struggling to breathe as he does. This is shown in Sam node, via Alec Ryder's memories. Alec would have succumbed far sooner than Ryder jr because he's far older, and had just lost the biological benefits of his SAM. They BOTH survived longer than expected while breathing in asphyxiants under heavy atmospheric pressure-and I'd say that was due to their rigorous training. Ryder when out quickly but talking do not dispel all air in the body all at once. It would lessen his team but not to seconds. Also, with how regression is in ME, Alec'so age is notngoing tonbe a factor. Heck, going on based on he fought once can say he is in a bettwr condition then ryder was at the time do to SAM.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:41:50 GMT
he left that detail for Ryder before they left the milkyway. He even added more things before he went on habitat 7. Where? The memories? Memories that only get triggered and seen by Ryder because Alec transferred Pathfinder control (SAM) to Ryder right before he died? Same goes for Alec's encrypted logs. Alec was the only one that knew the truth, and if he hadn't given Ryder control of SAM before he died, that knowledge would have died with him. the last memory has 2 parts. The first part is with a particular characters dad. After taking with then he tell Sam to put a someone who I won't not on the ship under a particular name.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 1:44:37 GMT
OK never mind. I just figured it out. Alec passed out quickly because he transfer SAM. I forgot, Ryder is so connected to SAM that if he disconnects forcefully he\she can pass out and \or die. The same could be true for Alec.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 2:22:44 GMT
Alec passed out so quickly because after you see Ryder Jr. Pass out Alec goes on speaking for a few moments, and is struggling to breathe as he does. This is shown in Sam node, via Alec Ryder's memories. Alec would have succumbed far sooner than Ryder jr because he's far older, and had just lost the biological benefits of his SAM. They BOTH survived longer than expected while breathing in asphyxiants under heavy atmospheric pressure-and I'd say that was due to their rigorous training. Ryder when out quickly but talking do not dispel all air in the body all at once. It would lessen his team but not to seconds. Also, with how regression is in ME, Alec'so age is notngoing tonbe a factor. Heck, going on based on he fought once can say he is in a bettwr condition then ryder was at the time do to SAM. He fought well because of SAM's abilities, not to diminish his N7 status, but he is old. Humans don't live especially longer in ME than they do now. Its just biology dude. Breathing in an environment like that will absolutely kill the shit out of you in a mater of seconds. Just like it does on Earth in an enclosed environment. If anything they survived an unrealistically long time.
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Post by dreman999 on May 14, 2017 2:33:08 GMT
Ryder when out quickly but talking do not dispel all air in the body all at once. It would lessen his team but not to seconds. Also, with how regression is in ME, Alec'so age is notngoing tonbe a factor. Heck, going on based on he fought once can say he is in a bettwr condition then ryder was at the time do to SAM. He fought well because of SAM's abilities, not to diminish his N7 status, but he is old. Humans don't live especially longer in ME than they do now. Its just biology dude. Breathing in an environment like that will absolutely kill the shit out of you in a mater of seconds. Just like it does on Earth in an enclosed environment. If anything they survived an unrealistically long time. 1. I already figured it out. 2. SAM would make more.likely he would.not pass out. 3. Human is ME can live up to 200 year old and 60 is considered and extended 30 in ME for humans. This is in the codex from me1.
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DarkBeaver
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 125 Likes: 119
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Post by DarkBeaver on May 14, 2017 3:27:51 GMT
I really appreciate the dialog that has been going on here. I think we have some very smart people debating these two topics.
Ultimtely, my question is: Does the Hyperion hitting the scourge and/or Alec not attempting to hold his breath/share helmets impact your initial impression of the game? For me, it did. I began to notice lots of little things that seemed"off". And I am fine if you were ok with everything..i am not trying to convince anyone.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Obadiah on May 14, 2017 3:45:58 GMT
I really appreciate the dialog that has been going on here. I think we have some very smart people debating these two topics. Ultimtely, my question is: Does the Hyperion hitting the scourge and/or Alec not attempting to hold his breath/share helmets impact your initial impression of the game? For me, it did. I began to notice lots of little things that seemed"off". And I am fine if you were ok with everything..i am not trying to convince anyone. Nah, ultimately, the Hyperion hitting the Scourge and Alec dying could be explained by science, unfortunate circumstance, bad decisions, etc.... I got WAY bigger issues with the plot of MEA.
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Post by docklenator on May 14, 2017 4:55:11 GMT
I really appreciate the dialog that has been going on here. I think we have some very smart people debating these two topics. Ultimtely, my question is: Does the Hyperion hitting the scourge and/or Alec not attempting to hold his breath/share helmets impact your initial impression of the game? For me, it did. I began to notice lots of little things that seemed"off". And I am fine if you were ok with everything..i am not trying to convince anyone. Not for me! 1. Hyperion hitting the scourge? Well its possible they ran right into it or it grabbed them, and they thought they hit it. Its a weapon as well as a trap and doesn't at all appear to be a solid physical object that defies space/time. So I was probably as confused as the characters are supposed to be. 2. Alec not holding his breath didn't seem weird to me. He was worried about his son, passing on his memories and legacy, and knew as well as we should know that holding his breath would most likely not save his life. 3. The game is about discovering the unknown. So the initial game play really set the tone for not knowing what the fuck was going on, and the rest of the game answered most of those questions. (Aside from whats up with the Jardaan, the benefactor, the "opposition" an what went down before we got there)
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