We can accept now that Andromda was a failure. But do you consider it canon?

Seriously ? They been discussing some shitty stuff all the time, they spend time on Citadel having drinks, playing in casino or dancing all night, but Liara didn't have a time to tell Shep about Ark's, which could be a last hope for all races if the war with Reapers will go wrong ? I beg you...

They should bring back the franchise to the milky way imho, they had truely built something extraordinary. Back to the milky way a univserse that we know and love, which still has a lot more to be explored, i would be so happy if it gets back there.

"WE CAN ACCEPT NOW THAT ANDROMDA WAS A FAILURE."

I do consider it a failure. By several angles. On many levels. Even though it had very good initial sales, they dropped severely after the first reviews were published. In less than six months the game already received drastic discount prices on several occasions. The writing's on the wall. While it wasn't a total failure sales-wise it certainly was when it comes to critics, audiences, renewed interest. The studio in charge of it was disbanded and merged with another. It totally failed to meet expectations. Not much point trying to argue against it.

"BUT DO YOU CONSIDER IT CANON?"

I sure do.

And no amount of personal criticism, distaste or disappointment is going to change that.

In the same way that I disliked Mass effect galaxy and infiltrator. Or movies like Alien 3. And Star Trek V. And insurrection. And Nemesis. But far from me to remove such products from their respective continuities. I may detest star trek episodes like move along home and threshold but this has absolutely no bearing in trying to remove them from continuity. These are entirely separate issues.

Trying to remove a bad product from continuity is a typical fanboyish knee-jerk reaction, a reflex of a personality unable to cope with any form of disappointment or something that is displeasing. A more mature, balanced and realistic reaction is to be prefered.

That is not to say that I like or justify bad products. But merely that I accept them as having happened inside a fictional continuity. Even if I would have very much prefered for them never to have happened, they still did.

In the case of Andromeda, if you were so disgruntled by it that you would like to headcanon it out of existence, go for it, if you really want it. It is certainly easy to do since no previous direct mention of it exists in the original trilogy. It is just like travelling back in time to 2013 and playing the trilogy when andromeda was not a reality.

But you have free reign over your thoughts. Your mind is your playground. Feel free to indulge in your own fantasies. Just do not expect that others embrace it as fact. Fan-theories and personal headcanons can be cool and healthy to an extent as long as you do not regard them as dogmas to be imposed over everyone. As long as you (and other similar-minded) understand that the official stance by EA/Bioware is that it is canon and that this is accepted by the fans, the boards and sites like the MEWIKIA whenever you get back from your mental trips, it's all fine.


"The "Andromeda Initiative" never made sense."

To me at least it made total sense. In-game wise and story-wise in real world as a way to avoid dealing with the state of the galaxy post-me3.

"It was a huge, major retcon"

Actually, it is no retcon at all.

In storytelling, a retcon is when you alter a previously established fact.

Merely revisiting the past and inserting new info does not constitute a retcon. A retcon is when you remove meat from inside the sausage, or replace it with other type of meat. Andromeda merely inserted more fat into the sausage. It made additions, but it lead to no changes or discards. The original trilogy was left intact by it.

And it was not huge. It was very discreet. To the point that you can play the trilogy without coming across any info pertaining to Andromeda.

"so Bioware could get a fresh start and do a soft reboot"

Again, as in the case of retcon, reboot is being freely used here. To reboot something is to press the reset button and start back from the beginning once again. No such thing happened. Moving the action away to another galaxy in order to avoid having to deal with very impacting decisions from ME2 and 3 has nothing to do with rebooting the series.

Do you remember when Trek TNG ended? They were going to do a long arc in DS9 dealing with the dominion war. As an alternative, they also made a secondary series called Voyager that would not rely so much in a continuous story, but be more structured on an episodic nature. And yet, even though voyager moved to a very distant place no one would dare call it a reboot.

If you are going to attempt to criticise Andromeda in regards to storytelling, then use proper terminology. Call it a continuation set in the distant future, call it a side-story set far away from the main events. But do not call it a retcon. Nor a reboot. It is either intelectual dishonesty or utter ignorance of storytelling.

"yet that soft reboot has failed and has already been dropped."

Yes, but please explain us the not so easy to grasp relationship between a product being a failure and having lost canonical status. What does one thing have to do with the other. Should all failed projects be removed from continuity? And who gets to decide it? How much of a success is needed in order to remain canon? Do you apply this rule to all products you dislike or merely to andromeda? If it is not a rule for all, what made andromeda a candidate?

"I wonder then, when you play the original trilogy, the true Mass Effect, will you consider Andromeda canon or play it as it was meant to be?"

I do not think you really grasp how the games were meant to be played. First of all, they were meant to be played for fun. Video Games were meant to entertain the audiences. If you are agonizing over Andromeda, Ryder, the Initiative, the Arks as you are in the middle of a trilogy longplay then you are not playing it right. I would say the same to all boys and girls who are "milky-way widows" and wonder about Shepards decisions whenever they are exploring andromeda.

The trilogy was created with no previous knowledge of andromeda. Whenever one plays it, it should be concerned with the issues at hand. And not wondering if Alec Ryder is a black, a caucasian or an Asian. Or if his son or his daughter will wake up first while the other will remain sleeping.

In the same manner, if one decides to play Andromeda, its foolish to wonder if Shepard died at the end of the suicide mission (specially when the initiative was made when shepard was still comatose and his/her return was not guaranteed nor known to many people aside from liara and cerberus). it is of no consequence trying to know if the quarians made peace with the geth, of if one side was destroyed. It is impossible to know if the genophage was cured for real. If all AI vanished from the galaxy. If everybody is now made up of machine parts as well as biologic elements.

The writers and producers had for intention to make andromeda a totally divorced experience from the trilogy. Trying to play any side of the story while thinking on the other is not the way to go. Live and let die. Smile and be happy. Wanna play the trilogy again? Then accept that Shepard had no info about the initiative and while the player may have info, these people are now all sleeping on the way to andromeda and will not arrive for hundreds of years. Want to try Andromeda instead? Then whatever happened took place centuries ago, there's nothing to be done now and no way of knowing what transpired. Try not to worry and move forward. Otherwise you just prove that you failed to grasp the premise of the game and how it operates. How both games operate in regard to the other.

You can dine at the steakhouse or the pizza parlor on Sundays. But whatever you decide to do this weekend, enjoy what you have and try not to ruin the mood and go to one while you keep thinking of the other. it's not healthy.

It's not canon to me. I consider it a standalone on its own; Andromeda. It's not Mass Effect.

hey trollbabies. it's canon. suck it. shepard is dead and will stay dead. we are not going back to the milky way. suck it more. that is all.

Not a failure in my books....the failure was EA or Bioware' s response IMO.

Yes it is canon...not that it matters.

That's true unless Bioware decides that its not. They did it with Kotor by making Male or Female (depending on the which game) and certain story elements canon. So its not like they haven't changed it in the past. If they never revisit ME:A and go a different route who knows?

Your notion here is a different conversation than the "baby wants own canon" mindset being discussed. It is the creator of any work's prerogative to decide what is canon and what is not, although in most cases it's horrendously bad writing and does more harm than good suddenly declaring a story, arc, etc. non-canon. This usually shows auteur's hubris, lousy business sense, desperation, or a combination of all three. In the vein of this thread, even if you only like ME 1-3 you can't say it's "your canon." ME:A is just as much your canon as anything else whether you like it or not, or Bioware wants to end it all in glorious professional suicide and shut themselves down and say it was all a dream or whatever.

Actually you're arguing a point i'm not even making. Prior to the new films they decided all the EU books were not canon. kinda hamfisted but their prerogative. My point is that canon is canon. there is no "my canon." that's a millenial thing.

Who cares if someone wants to pretend that a sequel or whatever is non-canon? Creators themselves contradict their own canon all the time, or toy with fake canon for spinoffs (Dragon Age and Alistair), so what's wrong with someone deciding on their own canon that they prefer?

It's just strange to see this opinion, especially on a video game forum. Are people who played female Revan wrong because Revan turned out to be a man in SWTOR? Are they wrong for playing as Revan at all because Revan is non-canon? See how silly this is?

And the endings are fine by me, doesn't make them good, though. It is Mass Effect, it's part of continuity, you have no such power to determine that. So I guess you will just have to suck it and stop the bickering over that around here.

Canon is canon whether a person likes it or not. And just because developers of films, games, tv shows contradict their own canon doesn't invalidate that. Creator-driven canon flubs are usually mistakes, or caving into authority above who doesn't care.