inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 25, 2017 21:17:28 GMT
Now we are getting into subjective territory. I saw no glaring writing pitfalls in MEA. At least no more than in any other Mass Effect game. You may want to reexamine. I know once you boil something down so much you do get to the subjective point of personal taste, but we've just scratched the surface of what was wrong with the dialogue, plot cohesion (maybe more middle of the pack by video game standards at best) etc. with ME:A I like the premise, I like the wide open galaxy where truly no person has gone before, but the problem is in the telling. I still don't see how any adult who lives in a world with other adults didn't find some of the interpersonal relationships and dialogue laughably bad. So anyone who disagrees with you is not an adult and/or lives in an isolated bubble?
|
|
mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
inherit
9095
0
Oct 21, 2024 10:36:46 GMT
722
mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
635
Jul 27, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
July 2017
mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
|
Post by mannyray on Sept 25, 2017 21:18:01 GMT
It was supposed to be that though. Again bad writing is bad writing when it is not internally consistent or when it does not properly undergo some kind of arc. And the internal logic of MEA is Ryder is an awkard flirter. And another clue that this is not bad writing but intentional writing is how Kallo called it out on the bridge when Ryder was flirting with Suvi. Ryder is an isolated character who probably did not have much experience as flirting...so they flirt awkwardly. I liked Ryder's flirts much more than Shepard's. Give me a dork over a borderline sexual predator any day. Like I told Foley it's about context. anyone who has ever had a real adult relationship, whether casual or serious, can see ME:A's hamfisted writing for what it is, whether one likes the characters or not.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,003 Likes: 9,087
inherit
1561
0
9,087
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,003
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Sept 25, 2017 21:22:48 GMT
Since we have gotten off-topic, I am going to try to put us back onto topic. To me the time frame will have more to do with what they are going to do with the game instead of what happened with Andromeda. Normally it takes three to four years to develop a new BioWare title which honestly is probably enough time for the wounds that people want to heal will heal, if anything a good game will be a better fix then time. Look at the Assassin's Creed games for example, they still churned them out year after year even when they started to alienate their fans, but Black Flag was received very well. I think we won't have to wait a long time for another Mass Effect game if BioWare gives up the foolish (in my opinion) attempt to convert their games into open world games and goes back to their strengths. Mostly development time and giving enough of a gap between Anthem and then Dragon Age so they aren't competing with one another. Even keeping open-worlds wouldn't add that much time. They just need to not try to procedurally-generated worlds since that ate up most of their time with nothing to show for it. Really MEA only had 2 years of development so with 3 or 4 it should be much better. Even a few more months made it much better with the patches. I am not sure about your conclusions about the procedural generated worlds since from what I understand it was to be alongside what we got so it would be a bunch of smaller worlds like the planets we could explore in Mass Effect 1 alongside Eos and the other ones in the shipped game. So I don't think the claims of only two years of development is accurate, to me I think a lot of the problems were due to mismanagement and the people that were in charge at that time didn't focus on the core aspects of the game instead worked on elements and then floundered when trying to combine them into a single game.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,003 Likes: 9,087
inherit
1561
0
9,087
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,003
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Sept 25, 2017 21:26:03 GMT
Conversely, I had one bug in my entire playthrough of ME:A on XBox One pre-patch (got to start on 03/15/2017 through EA Access) through patches 1.04/1.05. The only issue I had was Drack's companion mission at the end when everyone starting floating in a "T" and then it stalled. I re-started and was able to finish it out with no problem. Weird how different people get different experiences.That's true. It could also be chalked up to which system you played it on. A PC for me. I have to give a shout out to smilesja. He gives a thumbs up to just about anyone who post back me. A tool is a tool is a... Just to compare it sounds like you had a flawless time with The Witcher 3, but my friend had the save game corruption after marathon play session of the game on launch. I cannot verify his hour losses, but he said he lost about 30 hours of time in the game and that was on the PC version of the game. After that he has an opinion of CDPR that a lot of people are saying about BioWare now. I found a lot of the problems in Andromeda that weren't quickly addressed were ones that had a lot of variables to them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 21:30:06 GMT
That's true. It could also be chalked up to which system you played it on. A PC for me. I have to give a shout out to smilesja. He gives a thumbs up to just about anyone who post back me. A tool is a tool is a... Just to compare it sounds like you had a flawless time with The Witcher 3, but my friend had the save game corruption after marathon play session of the game on launch. I cannot verify his hour losses, but he said he lost about 30 hours of time in the game and that was on the PC version of the game. After that he has an opinion of CDPR that a lot of people are saying about BioWare now. I found a lot of the problems in Andromeda that weren't quickly addressed were ones that had a lot of variables to them. I played along with a group of 5 others on Teamspeak and never heard them have any major problems like that at all (TW3). They didn't have my save corruption on ME:A either but did share various other bugs like falling through the floor several times and getting stuck in the open world on the slightest elevation change (sometimes you could get out on your own and other times it needed to be reset).
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2017 21:34:29 GMT
It was supposed to be that though. Again bad writing is bad writing when it is not internally consistent or when it does not properly undergo some kind of arc. And the internal logic of MEA is Ryder is an awkard flirter. And another clue that this is not bad writing but intentional writing is how Kallo called it out on the bridge when Ryder was flirting with Suvi. Ryder is an isolated character who probably did not have much experience as flirting...so they flirt awkwardly. Bad writing is intentional. Not in the sense the writer(s) sit down and say "let's write a hamfisted pile of shit," but usually because there's either no one in the chain who is either allowed or vested with the authority to tell said writer that something is indeed bad. The scripts of all three Star Wars prequels are great examples of the bad things that can happen when an auteur is in his own echo chamber. also it's not an issue of Ryder feeling awkward when it comes to addressing his/her personal feelings, it's that within the given context of some of the awkward dork crap. ninety nine percent of the awkward dork crap is due to player choice.
|
|
mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
inherit
9095
0
Oct 21, 2024 10:36:46 GMT
722
mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
635
Jul 27, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
July 2017
mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
|
Post by mannyray on Sept 25, 2017 21:55:17 GMT
Bad writing is intentional. Not in the sense the writer(s) sit down and say "let's write a hamfisted pile of shit," but usually because there's either no one in the chain who is either allowed or vested with the authority to tell said writer that something is indeed bad. The scripts of all three Star Wars prequels are great examples of the bad things that can happen when an auteur is in his own echo chamber. also it's not an issue of Ryder feeling awkward when it comes to addressing his/her personal feelings, it's that within the given context of some of the awkward dork crap. ninety nine percent of the awkward dork crap is due to player choice. the player does not have the dialogue wheel option for "hamfisted dork" or "smooth leader type." the most egregious examples that fall into unbelievable awkwardness for this character are baked into the dialogue options.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2017 21:58:50 GMT
ninety nine percent of the awkward dork crap is due to player choice. the player does not have the dialogue wheel option for "hamfisted dork" or "smooth leader type." the most egregious examples that fall into unbelievable awkwardness for this character are baked into the dialogue options. ...i just said that?
|
|
mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
inherit
9095
0
Oct 21, 2024 10:36:46 GMT
722
mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
635
Jul 27, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
July 2017
mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
|
Post by mannyray on Sept 25, 2017 22:01:17 GMT
the player does not have the dialogue wheel option for "hamfisted dork" or "smooth leader type." the most egregious examples that fall into unbelievable awkwardness for this character are baked into the dialogue options. ...i just said that? Okay, the thing is I inferred that you were saying the player could have Ryder not be such an awkward dork, especially in front of everyone when I thought the dialogue wheel made that nearly impossible to have ryder be anything but on his/her journey through the game. I may have misunderstood your stance or I didn't state mine clearly enough in my last reply to you.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2017 22:11:32 GMT
Okay, the thing is I inferred that you were saying the player could have Ryder not be such an awkward dork, especially in front of everyone when I thought the dialogue wheel made that nearly impossible to have ryder be anything but on his/her journey through the game. I may have misunderstood your stance or I didn't state mine clearly enough in my last reply to you. you can though. Just click on other dialogue options where Ryder is not an awkward dork. For instance i was able to play my Ryder as a professional military bad ass who was kind of a 'Shepard junior' Also i meant to mention this before but couldn't. How dork like Ryder is depends greatly on the romance. Suvi is the two awkward nerds. Vetra is sweet. Jaal is embarrassing. And Cora is the not awkward Ryder knows what he wants.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 22:22:59 GMT
Okay, the thing is I inferred that you were saying the player could have Ryder not be such an awkward dork, especially in front of everyone when I thought the dialogue wheel made that nearly impossible to have ryder be anything but on his/her journey through the game. I may have misunderstood your stance or I didn't state mine clearly enough in my last reply to you. you can though. Just click on other dialogue options where Ryder is not an awkward dork. For instance i was able to play my Ryder as a professional military bad ass who was kind of a 'Shepard junior' Also i meant to mention this before but couldn't. How dork like Ryder is depends greatly on the romance. Suvi is the two awkward nerds. Vetra is sweet. Jaal is embarrassing. And Cora is the not awkward Ryder knows what he wants. I'm calling you out on this as BS. I played that exact way (Professional), and the game goes out of its way to refute that option it feels.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2017 22:28:33 GMT
you can though. Just click on other dialogue options where Ryder is not an awkward dork. For instance i was able to play my Ryder as a professional military bad ass who was kind of a 'Shepard junior' Also i meant to mention this before but couldn't. How dork like Ryder is depends greatly on the romance. Suvi is the two awkward nerds. Vetra is sweet. Jaal is embarrassing. And Cora is the not awkward Ryder knows what he wants. I'm calling you out on this as BS. I played that exact way (Professional), and the game goes out of its way to refute that option it feels. aside from a couple of wonky auto dialogue moments the game does not force you into anything.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 22:30:51 GMT
I'm calling you out on this as BS. I played that exact way (Professional), and the game goes out of its way to refute that option it feels. aside from a couple of wonky auto dialogue moments the game does not force you into anything. But the way the crew reacts to you with that emotion is pretty weak.
|
|
rapscallioness
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,531
inherit
223
0
1,531
rapscallioness
731
August 2016
rapscallioness
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
|
Post by rapscallioness on Sept 26, 2017 0:30:48 GMT
I don't know....I really don't. It's hard to read the tea leaves on this one.
But I, too, love a good Underdog/Come Back Story. They're the best.
So, who knows. Anything could happen, including something great.
|
|
FireAndBlood
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 454
Prime Likes: 350
Posts: 584 Likes: 1,664
inherit
52
0
1,664
FireAndBlood
584
August 2016
fireandblood
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
454
350
|
Post by FireAndBlood on Sept 26, 2017 0:37:38 GMT
Can we not turn this into another let's all suck CDPR's dick thread.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 1:00:01 GMT
Can we not turn this into another let's all suck CDPR's dick thread. Here, Bioware sent you a couple presents...
|
|
rapscallioness
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,531
inherit
223
0
1,531
rapscallioness
731
August 2016
rapscallioness
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
|
Post by rapscallioness on Sept 26, 2017 1:13:48 GMT
oh my
|
|
inherit
Ohm's Law Compels You
207
0
19,211
Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
5,762
August 2016
quigonglenn
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
qui_gon_glenn
2108
|
Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 26, 2017 1:25:06 GMT
I'm still choking on the concept that CDPR does better SP gameplay.
The stories of the Witcher games have been quite good. The actual gameplay went from interesting (1) to stupid hack'n'slash (2) to the point where I don't know about (3) because it sits on my shelf.
The gameplay in all 4 ME games, as far as actual combat and world interaction, is better than what I have experienced in either Witcher 1 or 2.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,661
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,054
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Sept 26, 2017 1:28:16 GMT
aside from a couple of wonky auto dialogue moments the game does not force you into anything. But the way the crew reacts to you with that emotion is pretty weak. Which members of the crew didn't react correctly, and how do you think they should have reacted instead?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 1:30:22 GMT
I'm still choking on the concept that CDPR does better SP gameplay. The stories of the Witcher games have been quite good. The actual gameplay went from interesting (1) to stupid hack'n'slash (2) to the point where I don't know about (3) because it sits on my shelf. The gameplay in all 4 ME games, as far as actual combat and world interaction, is better than what I have experienced in either Witcher 1 or 2. I agree. The Witcher games have always had pretty bad combat mechanics. The story, facial animations and graphics have all been pretty damn good though with TW3 setting the standard for facial animations and graphics. Story is always subjective of course.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2017 1:52:06 GMT
I'm still choking on the concept that CDPR does better SP gameplay. The stories of the Witcher games have been quite good. The actual gameplay went from interesting (1) to stupid hack'n'slash (2) to the point where I don't know about (3) because it sits on my shelf. The gameplay in all 4 ME games, as far as actual combat and world interaction, is better than what I have experienced in either Witcher 1 or 2. My main draw to the Witcher 3 has always been its gameplay.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 2:01:20 GMT
But the way the crew reacts to you with that emotion is pretty weak. Which members of the crew didn't react correctly, and how do you think they should have reacted instead? It's the first scene after Eos when you talk to your crew for the first time. Right after you try to establish some rules (Professional Emotion) and they just walk right out on you basically like, "ok whatever" and you're just standing there like a punk. That whole scene is very awkward. Again, given the very nature of why you're there in the first place I'd expect the crew to have a fire under them and have at least a little respect for the person who shoulders saving every race on the Nexus. Drack of course is an exception (Krogan do what they want anyway). And I know there are more of these but I'd need to dive back in the game before I comment to refresh my memory. For me playing a professional felt very odd. Given the description... Professional: Marked by a square spiral, these are no-nonsense options that draw on intelligence, but are usually very formal and respectful without any tomfoolery.
...you'd think that being professional others would pick up on that and be professional back. Maybe I just expected too much from being a professional. I was leaning more towards a military feel and it just wasn't there.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2017 2:02:18 GMT
Which members of the crew didn't react correctly, and how do you think they should have reacted instead? It's the first scene after Eos when you talk to your crew for the first time. Right after you try to establish some rules (Professional Emotion) and they just walk right out on you basically like, "ok whatever" and you're just standing there like a punk. That whole scene is very awkward. Again, given the very nature of why you're there in the first place I'd expect the crew to have a fire under them and have at least a little respect for the person who shoulders saving every race on the Nexus. Drack of course is an exception (Krogan do what they want anyway). And I know there are more of these but I'd need to dive back in the game before I comment to refresh my memory. For me playing a professional felt very odd. Given the description... Professional: Marked by a square spiral, these are no-nonsense options that draw on intelligence, but are usually very formal and respectful without any tomfoolery.
...you'd think that being professional others would pick up on that and be professional back. Maybe I just expected too much from being a professional. I was leaning more towards a military feel and it just wasn't there. And then later on they try it again and Ryder shuts that shit down.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
5402
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 2:11:15 GMT
It's the first scene after Eos when you talk to your crew for the first time. Right after you try to establish some rules (Professional Emotion) and they just walk right out on you basically like, "ok whatever" and you're just standing there like a punk. That whole scene is very awkward. Again, given the very nature of why you're there in the first place I'd expect the crew to have a fire under them and have at least a little respect for the person who shoulders saving every race on the Nexus. Drack of course is an exception (Krogan do what they want anyway). And I know there are more of these but I'd need to dive back in the game before I comment to refresh my memory. For me playing a professional felt very odd. Given the description... Professional: Marked by a square spiral, these are no-nonsense options that draw on intelligence, but are usually very formal and respectful without any tomfoolery.
...you'd think that being professional others would pick up on that and be professional back. Maybe I just expected too much from being a professional. I was leaning more towards a military feel and it just wasn't there. And then later on they try it again and Ryder shuts that shit down. I'd have to go back and look but I don't remember anything like that happening. I think I ended up picking something like 90% professional with the rest being logical (don't quote me on that). I didn't expect Shepard 2.0 but the damn crew needed to get their heads out their respective asses. You're trying to save the lives of not only humans, but every other race also. To me this is where the game really falters when it comes to how npc's interact with you. Being a SGT in the Army I may have had to earn total respect from my soldiers but there was also a demand for the respect of my rank as well. So respect was 2 fold. In the end maybe my expectations where too high...
|
|
inherit
1033
0
36,890
colfoley
19,126
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 26, 2017 2:21:53 GMT
And then later on they try it again and Ryder shuts that shit down. I'd have to go back and look but I don't remember anything like that happening. I think I ended up picking something like 90% professional with the rest being logical (don't quote me on that). I didn't expect Shepard 2.0 but the damn crew needed to get their heads out their respective asses. You're trying to save the lives of not only humans, but every other race also. To me this is where the game really falters when it comes to how npc's interact with you. Being a SGT in the Army I may have had to earn total respect from my soldiers but there was also a demand for the respect of my rank as well. So respect was 2 fold. In the end maybe my expectations where too high... That's the thing. The Pathfinders, the Tempest, the Iniative, weren't military. Ryder may have had a military background but that does not mean jack shit when it comes to getting respect from the people around you. Especially in a casual environment where the rules had not even been properly established yet. The only person who really acted OOC in that moment was Cora. But then Cora had her own problems with Ryder being the pathfinder. And the scene, while clunky, did demonstrate that Ryder was going to have to grow and learn and earn that respect. Like in the later scene after he had earned that respect he was able to wield that authority confidently.
|
|