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Post by Darth Dennis on Oct 13, 2016 22:43:07 GMT
To detonate it, you just press the same bind that puts it on again? And then can re-apply after the CD? Just checking. Yes.
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Post by srgtcolon on Oct 13, 2016 23:47:56 GMT
Yes but tactical cloaks cooldown is higher than cryo blasts... right??? Well, no, not for practical purposes. For example you kit yourself out with with a BW.X with HVB.V your weight/power recharge bonus will be around -10%. At -10% CB has 4.35s cooldown and TC has a listed 6.9s, but, if you do as described above, cloak-CB-shoot, TC has only ~3s cooldown (2.82s is the theoretical minimum), much shorter than a naked CB. That's how it supposed to be at the start, practice, quick scoping (first aim without scoping, then scope and adjust) and right hand advantage (you shoot by corners while you still mostly in cover) will get you there.
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Post by Deerber on Oct 14, 2016 0:46:49 GMT
Yes but tactical cloaks cooldown is higher than cryo blasts... right??? Well, no, not for practical purposes. For example you kit yourself out with with a BW.X with HVB.V your weight/power recharge bonus will be around -10%. At -10% CB has 4.35s cooldown and TC has a listed 6.9s, but, if you do as described above, cloak-CB-shoot, TC has only ~3s cooldown (2.82s is the theoretical minimum), much shorter than a naked CB. That's how it supposed to be at the start, practice, quick scoping (first aim without scoping, then scope and adjust) and right hand advantage (you shoot by corners while you still mostly in cover) will get you there. Where did you get the 2.82 figure?
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Post by srgtcolon on Oct 14, 2016 6:15:52 GMT
Well, no, not for practical purposes. For example you kit yourself out with with a BW.X with HVB.V your weight/power recharge bonus will be around -10%. At -10% CB has 4.35s cooldown and TC has a listed 6.9s, but, if you do as described above, cloak-CB-shoot, TC has only ~3s cooldown (2.82s is the theoretical minimum), much shorter than a naked CB. Where did you get the 2.82 figure? That is this HFI's TC cooldown at 200% power bonus, here. I know, cloak cooldown is a bit delayed, etc. etc., as said, theoretic minimum.
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Post by kpeter on Oct 14, 2016 11:28:46 GMT
I never detonate tech armor. I just set it up and leave it active for the entire game. This might change your approach - one of the most enjoyable ME videos there is. And there's also the potential for a TA Killstreak, which is a whole new world of happy. No, it wont change my approach. I played the citadel dlc, it was fun, the conversation is funny aswell. I admit it. But that won't make me change my mind. Detonating tech armor does like 1200-1600 damage maximum? I need to set up my whole character around it from weapons up until class powers and equipment. So i have to sacrifice everything. gear bonus and armor bonus has to be tech power damage bonus, passives all set to power damage bonus, weapon needs to be pistol or smg with power magnifier. Considering that, the detonation damage is just not enough, sorry. Plus sacrificing my cooldown is also not justified for me. I'd rather use a saber that deals such damage per shot, as the tech armor when i build my whole setup around it. Plus i don't have to sacrifice turian's amazing stability and 30% hs bonuses and my cooldown time goes 100% for overload/warp. The only reason i'd detonate tech armor to stun enemies in emergency situation to get out of trouble. I'm not saying it can't be fun playing that way, but its nowhere near as effective.
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Oct 14, 2016 15:01:35 GMT
This might change your approach - one of the most enjoyable ME videos there is. And there's also the potential for a TA Killstreak, which is a whole new world of happy. No, it wont change my approach. I played the citadel dlc, it was fun, the conversation is funny aswell. I admit it. But that won't make me change my mind. Detonating tech armor does like 1200-1600 damage maximum? I need to set up my whole character around it from weapons up until class powers and equipment. So i have to sacrifice everything. gear bonus and armor bonus has to be tech power damage bonus, passives all set to power damage bonus, weapon needs to be pistol or smg with power magnifier. Considering that, the detonation damage is just not enough, sorry. Plus sacrificing my cooldown is also not justified for me. I'd rather use a saber that deals such damage per shot, as the tech armor when i build my whole setup around it. Plus i don't have to sacrifice turian's amazing stability and 30% hs bonuses and my cooldown time goes 100% for overload/warp. The only reason i'd detonate tech armor to stun enemies in emergency situation to get out of trouble. I'm not saying it can't be fun playing that way, but its nowhere near as effective. I was fine with everything you said until the bit I emboldened, as it made me wonder if you actually watched the video? It's only the intro that is from the Citadel - the rest is xcal outscoring a Destroyer Typhoon and a Reegar AIU without firing his gun. I'd say that's both fun and effective - and in all honesty in this instance not due to xcal being exceptionally skilled. But I wasn't in any way trying to make it look like I thought you were wrong in not detonating TA, just alerting you to the fact that it's perfectly viable to use it offensively. The numbers don't matter as much as the timing, and the fact that it staggers (and/or finishes off) multiple enemies. I've done literally thousands of waves with the TSent, and the majority of them were with the standard tried and tested 46664 build, mostly with Arc Pistol, Phaeston, Saber or Lancer. In that time I've completed Overload Mastery 51 times, and Tech Armour 17, without ever actually speccing for an offensive TA build. So that's what I did last night, just for lols, after watching that video for the umpteenth time. Unusual approach, I admit - 55466 (full melee) with Wraith + Smart Choke, Omniblade and Strength Enhancer with AP ammo. By funny coincidence I landed in a GiP on Giant Hazard, though I had Reapers as opponents rather than Cerberus. I'm not a score-focused player at all but I came close to breaking the screen with the number of medals I had at the end - you have to trust me on this - it wasn't just fun.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Oct 14, 2016 22:35:18 GMT
Since the thread has 4 pages, I'd imagine many people have already made some of these points, and many more have probably contradicted them!
- Vanguards can be difficult to learn when playing off-host, but arguably that's the best way to learn how to use them if you do plan to use them off-host. No sense in seeing how they work if they're not going to most of the time!
- Infiltrators are almost certainly the easiest kit with which to learn, because the cloak is a very powerful two-way tool. To understand its aggro-dropping abilities, remember that enemies will decide their targets on a three second cycle, and will generally tend to continue to attack a target preferentially to switching targets. They will also target an enemy's last known location if they no longer know where they are. All that means that to avoid enemy fire, when you cloak, you have to move from your original location. If you have been cloaked and moving for three seconds, in theory, no enemies should be targeting you (but can easily re-target you on their next 3-second cycle as soon as they know where you are.)
- The Human Sentinel is a very straightforward and easy-to-use kit, with very strong offensive and defensive abilities. For me, it was especially helpful to have a strong "Two Button" kit to learn Gold with. By that I mean that it has a passive activated power (Tech Armour) that does most of its work without needing reactivation (but has an offensive secondary AoE function when deactivated that is also useful.) This makes it easier to run around with, since you usually only need to worry about 2 powers, which have very high combined damage (second only to a Shockwave combo, I think.)
Engineers, Soldiers and Adepts are most likely going to depend on personal preference and playstyle. On Bronze, I doubt any of them is really any more difficult or less survivable than another. Any differences will mostly come down to personal preference, and will be more noticeable on higher difficulties.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 22:50:30 GMT
Folks, could someone translate the 'playing off-host" for me? Do you mean pugging?
And, well, I am at level 19 Adept, so the many, many, many zones over the weekend are going be blessed by the participation of the brand-new Sentinel. I'm gonna blast that armor right off of me!
So far, Engineer > Adept in my world.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Oct 14, 2016 23:12:30 GMT
"Leader" is host.
Everyone else is "off host."
Most of what is happening during the game is being decided on the host's machine. That means that everyone else has to wait until the host's machine sends their machines the results of those decisions over the internet.
If you usually play as the leader (or "host") you won't notice much lag, because most of the game's decisions are being processed on your machine. There is lag, it's just too small for you to notice most of the time. You'll see more frame rate drops as host on PS3 than elsewhere, but usually it would be limited to info travelling across the network. You'll see lag as host when people are joining your game (until they've finished "loading in") for example.
Off-host is a different story, as many factors will now play a role in how much lag occurs. Quality of local networks, the speed of the player's internet connection, their ISP etc. The most significant factor, perhaps, is the quality of the host's internet connection and local networks.
Since it's an info dump, if you want to know if you're a reliable host, here are a few tips:
- If your upload and download speeds are respectively a minimum of 1MB per second consistently, then your connection is fast enough to host. Others will wildly exaggerate, claiming you need super-fast connections, but that is not necessarily true. As long as you aren't splitting your data with someone streaming porn or something, you're fine. ME 3 doesn't transmit more than a MB per second in data.
- The strength of your connection is more important. "Packet loss" is the great enemy of ME 3 off-host players. Packet loss is worse than latency (latency refers to the amount of time it take a signal to physically travel from one point to another.)
- Similarly to above, the consistency of your connection is also more important than the speed. If you can rocket through Debbie Does Dallases One through Nine* in ten minutes at 2 a.m., that's great, but if you're suddenly getting dropped every five minutes and get crappy download speed as soon as your neighbours wake up in the morning... you have a saturated network, and will not make a good host (except at 2 a.m.)
*I do not actually know if there were 9 Debbie Does Dallases. Which is actually pretty bad, because I furrealz made a documentary about Debbie Does Dallas about 10 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 23:15:08 GMT
"Leader" is host. Everyone else is "off host." Then how being the leader is advantageous? If I've asked already and my ditzy brain did not retain the answer, I apologize, it's a part of my charm. Does the raid lead get extra agro?
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Oct 14, 2016 23:30:17 GMT
As you can see, I was busy editing, and once I started I couldn't stop!
I think that covers it. Unless it's all lies. It might be. I wouldn't trust me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 23:47:41 GMT
As you can see, I was busy editing, and once I started I couldn't stop! I think that covers it. Unless it's all lies. It might be. I wouldn't trust me. Cool, thanks, now I know!
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Oct 15, 2016 7:11:18 GMT
"Leader" is host. Everyone else is "off host." Most of what is happening during the game is being decided on the host's machine. That means that everyone else has to wait until the host's machine sends their machines the results of those decisions over the internet. If you usually play as the leader (or "host") you won't notice much lag, because most of the game's decisions are being processed on your machine. There is lag, it's just too small for you to notice most of the time. You'll see more frame rate drops as host on PS3 than elsewhere, but usually it would be limited to info travelling across the network. You'll see lag as host when people are joining your game (until they've finished "loading in") for example. Off-host is a different story, as many factors will now play a role in how much lag occurs. Quality of local networks, the speed of the player's internet connection, their ISP etc. The most significant factor, perhaps, is the quality of the host's internet connection and local networks. Since it's an info dump, if you want to know if you're a reliable host, here are a few tips: - If your upload and download speeds are respectively a minimum of 1MB per second consistently, then your connection is fast enough to host. Others will wildly exaggerate, claiming you need super-fast connections, but that is not necessarily true. As long as you aren't splitting your data with someone streaming porn or something, you're fine. ME 3 doesn't transmit more than a MB per second in data. - The strength of your connection is more important. "Packet loss" is the great enemy of ME 3 off-host players. Packet loss is worse than latency (latency refers to the amount of time it take a signal to physically travel from one point to another.) - Similarly to above, the consistency of your connection is also more important than the speed. If you can rocket through Debbie Does Dallases One through Nine* in ten minutes at 2 a.m., that's great, but if you're suddenly getting dropped every five minutes and get crappy download speed as soon as your neighbours wake up in the morning... you have a saturated network, and will not make a good host (except at 2 a.m.) *I do not actually know if there were 9 Debbie Does Dallases. Which is actually pretty bad, because I furrealz made a documentary about Debbie Does Dallas about 10 years ago.I'm pretty much a noob as well and wasn't too sure what everyone meant when they talked about all this, so your description helps me a lot too. Thank you for this
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 15:01:57 GMT
(Waves) So far I am liking the Sentinel kit better than the Adept's. In Bronze at least, the tech armor x-plosion does pack a bit of a punch taking off the mooks that tend to sneak up on me. When passive, the armor makes the char a bit sturdier.
Not sure if I am doing the Warp right, but I go with throw first, warp after sequence. My liking for a Sent might have a bit to do with the pistol I actually have to give the character, that works surprisingly well. I am not sure how I got it, but it is an Eagle I from the 4th tier of weapons, and in addition by some reason I went from 6/13 uncommon mods to 10/13 uncommon mods.
So, I am a proud owner of Sentinel on level 16, with two promoted classes (Engi and Adept). And, well, Infiltrator is the next to try after I get my Sentinel to level 20. I am going to back-read the thread to put an Action Plan together for the Infiltrator.
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Post by stephenw32768 on Oct 15, 2016 15:04:02 GMT
Not sure if I am doing the Warp right, but I go with throw first, warp after sequence. Do Warp first. That primes a biotic explosion, you'll see a blue glow on most enemies (though not all). Then Throw detonates the explosion. Throw cannot prime an explosion. Warp can also detonate other player's explosions if they prime using a different power such as Reave or Dark Channel.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Oct 15, 2016 15:35:34 GMT
Yep.
To really maximize your output, use Warp on armoured or shielded enemies, then shoot them. The gun will do bonus damage to the warped target, and when your cooldown ends and you use Throw, you'll get the combo described above.
For unshielded targets, you can just use throw. With the 30% bonus in Tech Armour, Throw actually receives a Force Bonus (which usually does not apply to Power Bonus Damage.) A more advanced tactic is to use Incendiary (or another priming ammo, but Incendiary is regarded as the most effective for combos) by shooting the target, then following up with Throw to get the Fire Explosion combo damage in addition to the Force-Based damage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 16:19:36 GMT
Thank you, both. I suppose the order of buttons cannot lie. Will try incendiary. I usually use the phasic(?) the one that gives bonus to biotics.
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Post by stephenw32768 on Oct 15, 2016 16:52:08 GMT
Thank you, both. I suppose the order of buttons cannot lie. Will try incendiary. I usually use the phasic(?) the one that gives bonus to biotics. It's warp ammo that does extra damage to targets that have been primed for biotics. Phasic ammo does extra damage to shields/barriers and is useful for: - single-shot sniper rifles like the Mantis, so you can drop a shielded Marauder, Centurion etc. with one shot;
- biotic characters who want to be able to shoot through shields quickly, but who don't want to use disruptor ammo because it primes tech bursts that are weaker than biotic explosions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 17:16:30 GMT
Thank you, both. I suppose the order of buttons cannot lie. Will try incendiary. I usually use the phasic(?) the one that gives bonus to biotics. Don't let yourself get fooled by the arrangement of power buttons - there are enough instances where their positioning is more than counter-intuitive, to say the least On some kits it can be completely normal to push 3-2 in order instead of 2-3 as would seem more logical - only Biovar knows why (or maybe they don't).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 22:58:35 GMT
Hey, it's only 3 buttons, what could go wrong?
I've corrected my 3-2 to 2-3, but I rarely had a chance to show off with full combo, basically it takes an Atlas, everything else dies too fast. I had a blast on my Sentinel, so it's a serious contender for me for my main. will feel really sad to promote him, he ended up on level 19. I might screenshot his build for further reference, it works well for me. Actually got my first silver zone on him, because I fell in with some nice guys, and just kept changing the equipment in the lobby. And, well, they queued up for silver.
I got a quarian infiltrator card, but I am not sure how useful Sabotage is going to be. so I now have a variety of species progression available to me once I work through the human kits -off Sentinel, off infiltrator and off Vanguard.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 18:52:20 GMT
Okay, Infiltrator is certainly out as my main class. Even with Raptor that is way, way, way better than Mantis, I barely do anything at all. Yeah, definitely not an Infiltrator player. Six levels to go on it, and I shall never touch it again! EDIT: And done! Thanks goodness! Well, if Vanguard goes as bad as the Infilutrator, that means I've hit the ceiling with the class difficulty level.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 3:29:42 GMT
Okay, Vanguard is very, very, very fun to play though more than a little suicidal. Kind of trying to roll away fast after the whole v.complicated leap and Nova combo. Certainly no leaping at bruits. And very easy to get totally over-extended and far away from any objective. Oh, sometimes people would drop the lobby when they see a low level Human Vanguard, ha-ha. But, OMG, certainly fun in bronze!
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Post by docsteely on Oct 18, 2016 4:07:43 GMT
I got a quarian infiltrator card, but I am not sure how useful Sabotage is going to be. so I now have a variety of species progression available to me once I work through the human kits -off Sentinel, off infiltrator and off Vanguard. Sabotage is very useful against Cerberus (Turrets and Atlases turn against nearby units) and Geth (all units); for the rest not so fun... Her best power remains the Tactical Cloak - she's an infiltrator. Okay, Infiltrator is certainly out as my main class. Even with Raptor that is way, way, way better than Mantis, I barely do anything at all. Yeah, definitely not an Infiltrator player. Six levels to go on it, and I shall never touch it again! EDIT: And done! Thanks goodness! Well, if Vanguard goes as bad as the Infilutrator, that means I've hit the ceiling with the class difficulty level. Raptor is way, way worse than the Mantis, but you've got to learn the combination: Tactical Cloak -> Cryo blast -> Sniper Rifle shot. And you need reload cancelling to be really effective with this class. Okay, Vanguard is very, very, very fun to play though more than a little suicidal. Kind of trying to roll away fast after the whole v.complicated leap and Nova combo. Certainly no leaping at bruits. And very easy to get totally over-extended and far away from any objective. Oh, sometimes people would drop the lobby when they see a low level Human Vanguard, ha-ha. But, OMG, certainly fun in bronze! Vanguard is a fun class, but you really need to learn to play with it, especially off-host. BTW dropping the lobby constitutes imo bad manners...
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Post by Sentinel2010 on Oct 18, 2016 5:11:05 GMT
These are only about vanilla human kits.
Soldier:
Adrenaline Rush: Automatic reload, emergency shield recharge (6A Evo) and damage boost/reduction (4A Evo) Concussive Shot: Easy detonator and controller, cannot be used in AR (Unless 6B Evo for AR) Frag Grenade: No-cooldown detonator
Highly dependent on gears and weapons Very effective at using low capacity, high-damage firearms (Claymore, Raider, Black Widow, etc)
Infiltrator:
Tactical Cloak: Aggro remover, superb damage boost, overrides cooldown Cryo Blast: No damage, but strong debuff and effective controller Sticky Grenade: Primer and detonator, a bit difficult to use
Dependent on gears and weapons Effective at using shotguns and snipers (Former recommended personally)
Engineer:
Combat Drone: Drawing aggro (Effective against LOLGeth) Incinerate: Armor debuff, fire primer, detonator Overload: Crowd Controller, tech primer, detonator
Better to keep light weight (Pistol/SMG) Hide and deploy drone, shoot, use powers to control, debuff and create explosions
Sentinel:
Tech Armor: Damage reduction and power boost (for throw) Warp: Biotic explosion primer, detonator, powerful debuff and DOT Throw: Strong controller, can instantly kill/heavily damage humanoid enemy (out of map/to the wall), detonator
Better to keep light weight (Pistol/SMG) Activate armor and keep it, shoot and throw humanoid enemies, warp, shoot & explode bosses
Adept:
Singularity: Crowd control, no-brain biotic explosion primer, detonator (6B Evo) Warp: Biotic explosion primer, detonator, powerful debuff and DOT Shockwave: Most powerful BE detonator, distance limit, can create multiple explosions (w/ singularity)
Better to keep light weight (Pistol/SMG) Long distance: Singularity, shoot, warp = explosion, (w/ 6B Evo) warp again and walk away = 2nd explosion Middle/short distance against single boss: Warp, shoot, shockwave = explosion Middle/short distance against crowd: Singularity, shoot, shockwave = 2 explosions, warp again and walk away = 3rd explosion
Vanguard:
Biotic Charge: Damage Reduction, instant traveller, detonator, barrier recharge, damage boost(weapon or power on 5th Evo), suicide (when used inappropriately) Shockwave: Don't spec it Nova: Crowd control, invincibility frames (w/ cancelling technique), universal detonator, drains barrier
Two ways to play as I know: Traditional novaguard: Keep light weight, charge & nova, use cancelling to keep yourself alive Claymoreguard: Charge & Claymore, nova for control and detonation, use cancelling to keep yourself alive
I don't know which can be "stronger". Soldier and infiltrator ask for good weapons, adept and vanguard will cost you some time to learn. The easiest vanilla human kits IMO are engineer and sentinel. But all of 6 are very powerful, indeed.
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kpeter
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Sept 14, 2016 8:13:56 GMT
September 2016
kpeter
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Post by kpeter on Oct 18, 2016 7:13:16 GMT
Okay, Infiltrator is certainly out as my main class. Even with Raptor that is way, way, way better than Mantis, I barely do anything at all. Yeah, definitely not an Infiltrator player. Six levels to go on it, and I shall never touch it again! EDIT: And done! Thanks goodness! Well, if Vanguard goes as bad as the Infilutrator, that means I've hit the ceiling with the class difficulty level. No, raptor is a very very bad gun. Unless you like repetitive strain injury. Mantis is a beast. It one shot kills unshielded enemies, and with disruptor or phasic ammo it can one shot kill marauders / centurions. Even on gold it is a very capable gun with the right kit.
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