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Post by lennybusker on Feb 6, 2019 11:31:16 GMT
This is good for Bitcoin!
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seekerofpower
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Post by seekerofpower on Feb 6, 2019 11:44:38 GMT
Previously, these benifits were both in the pilot skill tree and on gear as inscriptions. Difference being, in the pilot skill tree, they applied across all javelins while components are usually tailored to a specific javelin.
The problem, they can say they moved these to components (even though inscriptions were there at the same time as pilot skills previously) because the only people that can contadict that would be breaking alpha NDA, like I am now.
I have been resolute in not breaking NDA, but I am willing to now to dispel this straight up lie that they are telling about “moving these skills to components.”
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 6, 2019 11:47:07 GMT
Previously, these benifits were both in the pilot skill tree and on gear as inscriptions. Difference being, in the pilot skill tree, they applied across all javelins while components are usually tailored to a specific javelin. The problem, they can say they moved these to components (even though inscriptions were there at the same time as pilot skills previously) because the only people that can contadict that would be breaking alpha NDA, like I am now. I have been resolute in not breaking NDA, but I am willing to now to dispel this straight up lie that they are telling about “moving these skills to components.” I didn't even notice the trees during the alpha, but then I didn't really go looking that much.
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Post by seekerofpower on Feb 6, 2019 12:04:19 GMT
Everything I've heard about the skill tree from players who have played the alpha was that it felt pretty meaningless and the bonuses were barely noticable. I don't think it's a loss. The skills were a little lackluster, but the correct way to handle that is make them more impactful, not remove them entirely. Removing content is never a good idea.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 6, 2019 12:19:00 GMT
Everything I've heard about the skill tree from players who have played the alpha was that it felt pretty meaningless and the bonuses were barely noticable. I don't think it's a loss. The skills were a little lackluster, but the correct way to handle that is make them more impactful, not remove them entirely. Removing content is never a good idea. If the content is meaningless then removing it is a good idea. In this case I have "heard" that it felt lackluster. Better then to take it back to the drawing board. Since as you say as well, they were a little lackluster, we won't reallly miss that iteration of the Pilot skill tree until they come back with a form that feels meaningful and impactful enough to delay the game.
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Post by Thrombin on Feb 6, 2019 12:36:18 GMT
Right ... maybe your pilot actually having a skill tree and character progression representing their growth as a Freelancer and adding dimension to your identity and functionality as a character and not just some floating camera that gets into a Javelin should just be hand waved out of the conversation? Wow ...
I do think that a way to customize your character and not just your Javelin would help you to feel more invested in your character which is generally the point of an RPG. I'm fine with them temporarily removing it if it doesn't add anything significant but it would be nice if they could find a way to make it more significant!
Having said that, your pilot level is still contributing to the growth of the character through the better quality gear you can equip and all the other unlocks that accompany it. As you become more skilled you are able to master more types of Javelin, craft better quality gear, control more components at once (or handle their additional weight, perhaps). It's still a reflection of your character's increasing abilities rather than just solely a function of your suit. It's just the increasing abilities are not customizable, they are the same for every pilot.
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Post by Shinobu on Feb 6, 2019 12:43:26 GMT
You know why they removed skill trees?
Because it's easier for dipshits to understand the game.
I'm sorry to see you go from enthusiastic to cynical in the space of a few weeks. You have cause, but it's still a shame.
The reason stated for removing skill trees was that they were bland and not fun. They couldn't be javelin specific, so they were boring and generic things like "increase the radius you can pick up loot" "increase the percentage of health drops" etc. It's not very inspiring to battle 15 hours to get to pilot level 2 only to receive a choice between flying 1% longer or increasing your loot pickup radius by 1 foot. That just makes the grind more apparent for no good reason.
It sounds as though Pilot skill trees may make a comeback if they can be made more fun and useful, so we'll have to wait and see. I don't think this was an attempt to "dumb down" RPG mechanics but to make sure the RPG mechanics are good. Probably they got feedback from the alpha "do it right or don't do it at all" and decided "we didn't do it right, so let's take it out and rethink this. If it can be made engaging we'll put it back."
Please don't get into the mindset of "those stupid people are causing Bioware to make games I don't like." It just leads to unhappiness. If the mechanic were good I don't think it would have been removed.
The relevant parts of the Reddit conversation:
BioCamden Development Manager
... Because they were pilot skills they had to be agnostic of Javelin (pick-up range, health pack drop rate, ammo drop rate). And because they were javelin agnostic well... they just weren’t that interesting or impactful. They didn’t change the way you play the game or your builds because they couldn’t by nature.
USplendid PS4 Excellent Adventures Guild
Oof....
Man, you guys should probably have a sit down with your player investment lead and revisit this. While, on paper, absorbing the pilot skill tree into the component system may seem like a lateral movement. From an “RPG” aspect, you guys are effectively “removing” an avenue for player customization, in a genre where people obsess over wrinkles and nuances. Simply, on principle, players want a character skill tree. Even if it’s totally for show. There is a psychological component to “tailoring” your pilot and distributing skill points how you see fit.
BioCamden Development Manager
So I kind of spoke to it here reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/anlasz/_/efuur5b/?context=1
But yes we totally understand, and we are already working on plans to revisit it and make it better. Not sure how far out we are from seeing it return (and in what form) but we do agree that a skill-tree type of system for customization and progression is important.
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Feb 6, 2019 12:49:51 GMT
Pilot skills removed? So... What's the point of leveling now? Only to get better gear rarity? Besides, anything that removes options for me is a bad thing.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 6, 2019 12:55:12 GMT
"We" don't have to mostly take them at their word on anything. You can believe what you like. I have my own thoughts on the matter. The bigger question is do you have evidence for your thoughts? Thoughts in the face of evidence without counter-evidence is just contrarian conspiracy.
Evidence?
It's implied based on past Bio.EA marketing spiel, imo.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 6, 2019 13:27:18 GMT
Lets just say, I don't think anything significant was lost I think you're wrong. The pilot skill tree system in the alpha, from what I've...heard, was very underwhelming. Trust me on this one.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Brodda on Feb 6, 2019 14:18:53 GMT
The pilot skill tree system in the alpha, from what I've...heard, was very underwhelming. Trust me on this one. I ... heard ... that as well
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 6, 2019 14:40:24 GMT
This is a good thing. The pilot tree was not like a skill tree, it was more like paragon points from Diablo 3. It didn't do much and would have been an annoyance at endgame. It was never going to be a meaningful part of build creation and certainly was not going to generate builds.
On the RNG argument, this game has always centered on that. The abilities themselves are RNG loot. It works fine.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:00:33 GMT
Everything I've heard about the skill tree from players who have played the alpha was that it felt pretty meaningless and the bonuses were barely noticable. I don't think it's a loss. The skills were a little lackluster, but the correct way to handle that is make them more impactful, not remove them entirely. Removing content is never a good idea. I suppose you never heard of a highly valued creator motto that "less is more"? So no, removing content is not necessarily a bad idea. However, on reddit they did state that they removed the skill tree, but that doesn't necessarily means that it's gone forever.
So I don't see how is it not a decent idea to rework something they don't think is working or adding much substance to anything - especially that Anthem is a game that is specifically built to change, expand and improve over time. It's not a one-off, locked product.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:01:36 GMT
Pilot skills removed? So... What's the point of leveling now? Only to get better gear rarity? Besides, anything that removes options for me is a bad thing. The fact that there's no active tree doesn't mean that there's no passive one - or incremental increases to stats with each level.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 6, 2019 15:18:04 GMT
The bigger question is do you have evidence for your thoughts? Thoughts in the face of evidence without counter-evidence is just contrarian conspiracy.
Evidence?
It's implied based on past Bio.EA marketing spiel, imo.
Would you care to elaborate?
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 6, 2019 15:28:40 GMT
If it were up to me, I'd make pilot skills like masterwork/legendary additional skills. Change the ways some things work. BUT! There are like 30 options or so (some cost more than others), and in the end you can only choose a small percentage of them by the time you're 30.
The masterwork bonuses seem pretty cool, so no idea why they couldn't make the tree work that way...
But yeah, Bioware gets flak if they add something which isn't meaningful, and they also get flak if they take something meaningless out. And even if they do something good, they still get flak because someone is mad they didin't design it like it was in their head, even though they "promised" it on twitter a year ago.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 6, 2019 15:29:14 GMT
Evidence?
It's implied based on past Bio.EA marketing spiel, imo.
Would you care to elaborate? nnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohgodherewegoagain.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 15:37:38 GMT
Everything I've heard about the skill tree from players who have played the alpha was that it felt pretty meaningless and the bonuses were barely noticable. I don't think it's a loss. That's not the problem of the skill tree. That's the problem of the people that developed it.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 6, 2019 15:38:01 GMT
The pilot skill tree system in the alpha, from what I've...heard, was very underwhelming. Trust me on this one. I ... heard ... that as well I got to play the Alp--I mean...I heard this as well (ahem)
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 6, 2019 15:41:09 GMT
Whatever the merits/demerits of the change, it's the change itself that is going to start a whole new wave of negativity. "BIOWARE LIED!" Which means now, to those looking for reasons to gloat over negativity, everything they have promised is suspect or an outright lie.
I think this is a marketing facepalm moment. And again, the ugly side of transparency.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 15:42:30 GMT
The pilot skill tree system in the alpha, from what I've...heard, was very underwhelming. Trust me on this one. I ... heard ... that as well So make the skill tree good instead of underwhelming?
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 6, 2019 15:43:10 GMT
Everything I've heard about the skill tree from players who have played the alpha was that it felt pretty meaningless and the bonuses were barely noticable. I don't think it's a loss. That's not the problem of the skill tree. That's the problem of the people that developed it. And they can put it back once they have a better version. It's a "Live Service" game allowing them to do things they were never able to do prior to "Anthem".
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:43:57 GMT
I ... heard ... that as well So make the skill tree good instead of underwhelming? Sure, just snap your fingers and BAM! - a not-underwhelming skill tree! That's how game development works... right?
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 15:44:38 GMT
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 15:45:08 GMT
So make the skill tree good instead of underwhelming? Sure, just snap your fingers and BAM! - a not-underwhelming skill tree! That's how game development works... right? Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
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