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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 3:47:12 GMT
Someone said (I forget who) that a skill tree could fill the role of passives, but that's what the inscriptions do to a large extent.
What I like less about inscriptions is they are random … so I end up keeping multiple versions of a piece of gear, since the inscriptions might benefit one build, but not help another.
I also see where a higher level piece of gear lacks certain inscriptions, so I keep playing the lower level one, because of the passives.
But yeah, I would like to see them figure a way of making it meaningful and working for the pilot … across all the javelins.
The other thing that would be cool … unless I missed it (which is quite possible) … would be if we could select our own inscriptions. Maybe that feature was turned off for the demo and I misunderstood that as the only way we could create a "thing."
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 3:51:43 GMT
I'm kind of pleased that we can spec out five versions of each of our Javelins. For me, that is more convenient than constant respec of a character skill tree to play a Javelin differently … or play a different Javelin. If the skill trees come back, I hope that it would be only because BioWare figured out how to make them significant and relevant … but since the skill tree would be tied to the Freelancer … not the Javelin … it's not something that I would want if I had to respec to improve the performance of the Storm, if I'd done the specs for the Ranger. I think that is what BioWare found. On the other hand, what appears to be the current system, based on the demo, I can have five Rangers, each with its own spec, its own weapon loadout. Same for the others. I'm kind of juiced about that. I did something similar with the common human characters in MEAMP … I'd spec the male engineer differently than the female engineer, typically equipping with different weapons and changing their fighting styles. Now I can take that concept and ramp it up from two, to five for each Javelin. We'll see … BioWare may crack the nut or steal an idea from some other game, that makes a skill tree for the Freelancer relevant. But the loadout of the Javelin suit, from my perspective, accomplishes most of what I want with my Javelins. Really, I think it is more a different presentation of a skill tree … for the armor, as opposed to the pilot. Having all of this and a meaningful pilot skill tree that adds to your characters persona, represents their training both past and ongoing, adds gameplay specifics to their proclivity with the machine they spend so much time with .... none of this is mutually exclusive. They could both very meaningfully coexist without any need to 'repec your pilot' to account for Javelin specifics. No, this actually IS mutually exclusive - and quite a headache for someone like me, who likes to shuffle loadouts and classes/Javelins. And 'our training' is player's own ability to pilot the Javelin and something that is reflected in the game with unlocking increasingly stronger gear. After all, it's not like characters are like *ding* "I'm level 20! Time to collect all those level 20 components!". Your level, access to rare gear and the difficulty you're able to clear? That's what represents Freelancer training at this point in time. Yep, your dramatic transition from starry-eyed fan to hardened cynic doesn't leave much room for persuasion, which I am aware of. What I care about though is that you shouldn't mislead people visiting this thread about what you actually played. I'm not misleading anyone. You keep claiming all this stuff is fixed. This is yet to be proven. I don't. Bioware is. And all the Game Changers I know underline that the builds they played are a lot better. You, on the other hand, make claims based only on playing the demo, accuse others of making excuses or reject things outright. Sure, reject it. Sorry that you've had a crappy experience. I won't be convincing you. But your initial comment did indeed seem written like you had access to more than the demo.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 3:56:11 GMT
Someone said (I forget who) that a skill tree could fill the role of passives, but that's what the inscriptions do to a large extent. What I like less about inscriptions is they are random … so I end up keeping multiple versions of a piece of gear, since the inscriptions might benefit one build, but not help another. I also see where a higher level piece of gear lacks certain inscriptions, so I keep playing the lower level one, because of the passives. But yeah, I would like to see them figure a way of making it meaningful and working for the pilot … across all the javelins. The other thing that would be cool … unless I missed it (which is quite possible) … would be if we could select our own inscriptions. Maybe that feature was turned off for the demo and I misunderstood that as the only way we could create a "thing." I *do* wonder whether we still have a passive skill tree that is only really reflected by some incremental stat increases with each level... And yea, I didn't delve into it that much, so I'm unsure whether we can craft specific inscriptions or they are always determined/random. I do recall some video that may throw some light on it - on the other hand, it was a video from a stream some time ago and since it was an alpha build, things may have changed...
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 8, 2019 4:00:51 GMT
Character progression only matters when dealing with abilities innate to our PC in gameplay, which would be none here. Everything we do is an extension of the Javelin, so the Javelin itself is the only part that actually progresses. It's no different from our Commander in Elite: Dangerous. It's just a mannequin in a seat. The ship is the part that needs all the upgrades. Ironically, the character creator there is actually more extensive. Except that we have have gameplay in Fort Tarsis, out of our suit. Also our suit is manned by a pilot so the pilot very well could have character progression. Pilots are more than their machines. Equipment operators are more than their machines. It doesn't have to be the same as some other game, they could have taken a really unique and rewarding path here.
I reject that you somehow are an authority on when character progression matters.
Gameplay insofar that we’re walking around the hub and interacting with NPC’s. But where does the character progression come into play here? Make no mistake. My preference would have been for an extensive set of skills and character build options. Shit, I would prefer this game had zero multiplayer and focus solely on its world building and characters. But if all we can do is walk around the fort, choose A or B responses, what kind of character progression can we really expect? In something like Dragon Age, or Mass Effect, dialogue checks were my prime focus, because story and character content was paramount above all else. Seems to me that the game isn’t going to really bother with that. No point in having points toward the human at Fort Tarsis when those points won’t go towards anything useful. It would’ve been nice to have a system that has it, but I suspect any kind of character progression we DID get would probably have just gone towards building up our Javelin and performing out in the field.
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Post by regack on Feb 8, 2019 4:05:36 GMT
And yea, I didn't delve into it that much, so I'm unsure whether we can craft specific inscriptions or they are always determined/random. I do recall some video that may throw some light on it - on the other hand, it was a video from a stream some time ago and since it was an alpha build, things may have changed... I'm completely talking without any kind of useful basis here, but I seem to remember in one of the streams they were talking about not having a mechanic for re-rolling inscriptions, and that there was a very large pool of inscriptions that would be pulled from. That made me think that they were applied randomly, and you'd grind for the 1 in 10000 chance to get the perfect set. I was also reminded that in The Division, they eventually added a thing where you could re-roll you gear stats, something called Recalibration. Then you just had to grind for the resources needed for that... So, I suspect that you won't be able to pick your inscriptions, and right now, I suspect you won't be able to re-roll in order to get new ones - but as I said, this is based on some vague memory I had of a comment in a stream, and then the rest is purely conjecture on my part.
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H0RSE
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Post by H0RSE on Feb 8, 2019 4:59:42 GMT
Who says the game is optimized?
It can't even maintain steady 30 fps, uh, Bioware did... feel free to watch the entire video - more questions are answered.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 8, 2019 7:49:25 GMT
And yea, I didn't delve into it that much, so I'm unsure whether we can craft specific inscriptions or they are always determined/random. I do recall some video that may throw some light on it - on the other hand, it was a video from a stream some time ago and since it was an alpha build, things may have changed... I'm completely talking without any kind of useful basis here, but I seem to remember in one of the streams they were talking about not having a mechanic for re-rolling inscriptions, and that there was a very large pool of inscriptions that would be pulled from. That made me think that they were applied randomly, and you'd grind for the 1 in 10000 chance to get the perfect set. I was also reminded that in The Division, they eventually added a thing where you could re-roll you gear stats, something called Recalibration. Then you just had to grind for the resources needed for that... So, I suspect that you won't be able to pick your inscriptions, and right now, I suspect you won't be able to re-roll in order to get new ones - but as I said, this is based on some vague memory I had of a comment in a stream, and then the rest is purely conjecture on my part. The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 8, 2019 9:09:52 GMT
Someone said (I forget who) that a skill tree could fill the role of passives, but that's what the inscriptions do to a large extent. What I like less about inscriptions is they are random … so I end up keeping multiple versions of a piece of gear, since the inscriptions might benefit one build, but not help another. I also see where a higher level piece of gear lacks certain inscriptions, so I keep playing the lower level one, because of the passives. But yeah, I would like to see them figure a way of making it meaningful and working for the pilot … across all the javelins. The other thing that would be cool … unless I missed it (which is quite possible) … would be if we could select our own inscriptions. Maybe that feature was turned off for the demo and I misunderstood that as the only way we could create a "thing." You're gonna craft your rear off until you hit the combination of inscriptions on that piece of equipment. And the more content is out the more you need to roll the dice. Unless they introduce ways to counteract the dilution.
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Post by bshep on Feb 8, 2019 9:24:06 GMT
The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
From what i remember (Demo) you get blueprints after finding a version of the firearm or javelin gear during freeplay world events or quests rewards.
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Post by tjmitchem on Feb 8, 2019 9:26:50 GMT
You're gonna craft your rear off until you hit the combination of inscriptions on that piece of equipment. And the more content is out the more you need to roll the dice. Unless they introduce ways to counteract the dilution. I get the feeling that we'll eventually get something like the "Recalibration Station" from The Division. It won't be there at launch, but the playerbase is going to be screaming for it soon enough.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 8, 2019 9:28:26 GMT
The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
From what i remember (Demo) you get blueprints after finding a version of the firearm or javelin gear during freeplay world events or quests rewards. And you had to hit a certain achievement of using that drop to be able to craft better versions of it? Or I got that wrong?
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 8, 2019 9:36:03 GMT
The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
From what i remember (Demo) you get blueprints after finding a version of the firearm or javelin gear during freeplay world events or quests rewards. And by using the weapon you have a bp for you unlock higher rarities to craft. Like kill 50 mooks with gun: unlock next tier to craft.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 8, 2019 11:16:21 GMT
From what i remember (Demo) you get blueprints after finding a version of the firearm or javelin gear during freeplay world events or quests rewards. And by using the weapon you have a bp for you unlock higher rarities to craft. Like kill 50 mooks with gun: unlock next tier to craft. Hmm, that's actually a nice way of doing it.
Although, a speople said, we'll be screaming for a recalibration station soon enough.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 8, 2019 11:52:37 GMT
And by using the weapon you have a bp for you unlock higher rarities to craft. Like kill 50 mooks with gun: unlock next tier to craft. Hmm, that's actually a nice way of doing it.
Although, a speople said, we'll be screaming for a recalibration station soon enough.
And the NPC servicing that recalibration station... Do we even need to poll who should voice it?
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Post by Vall on Feb 8, 2019 14:56:44 GMT
Hmm, that's actually a nice way of doing it.
Although, a speople said, we'll be screaming for a recalibration station soon enough.
And the NPC servicing that recalibration station... Do we even need to poll who should voice it? "Can it wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some calibrations."
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 8, 2019 15:26:49 GMT
Who says the game is optimized?
It can't even maintain steady 30 fps, uh, Bioware did... feel free to watch the entire video - more questions are answered. We will find out for consoles on the 22nd.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 16:35:55 GMT
I'm completely talking without any kind of useful basis here, but I seem to remember in one of the streams they were talking about not having a mechanic for re-rolling inscriptions, and that there was a very large pool of inscriptions that would be pulled from. That made me think that they were applied randomly, and you'd grind for the 1 in 10000 chance to get the perfect set. I was also reminded that in The Division, they eventually added a thing where you could re-roll you gear stats, something called Recalibration. Then you just had to grind for the resources needed for that... So, I suspect that you won't be able to pick your inscriptions, and right now, I suspect you won't be able to re-roll in order to get new ones - but as I said, this is based on some vague memory I had of a comment in a stream, and then the rest is purely conjecture on my part. The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
AFAIK we gather most blueprints via achievements - use this gear/weapon to kill, say, 50 enemies and you'll get a green blueprint. 100 for a green one. There are also likely blueprints tied to quests and progression. Masterworks may drop randomly from tougher fights, I think? And when I tried crafting in the demo it seems that whatever I've crafted followed the level I was when crafting it.
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 8, 2019 16:42:49 GMT
And when I tried crafting in the demo it seems that whatever I've crafted followed the level I was when crafting it. In the demo, the power level of crafted equipment was based on your pilot level plus a modifier for the rarity (e.g. uncommon gave +2 power, rare gave +4 power at pilot level 15). As far as I could tell, loot worked the same way. However, I blew through levels 10-14, so I'm not completely sure if loot is locked to your pilot level or if there is a chance to loot gear higher than your level. I certainly never got loot that was below my level when I was level 15.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 16:42:59 GMT
And yea, I didn't delve into it that much, so I'm unsure whether we can craft specific inscriptions or they are always determined/random. I do recall some video that may throw some light on it - on the other hand, it was a video from a stream some time ago and since it was an alpha build, things may have changed... I'm completely talking without any kind of useful basis here, but I seem to remember in one of the streams they were talking about not having a mechanic for re-rolling inscriptions, and that there was a very large pool of inscriptions that would be pulled from. That made me think that they were applied randomly, and you'd grind for the 1 in 10000 chance to get the perfect set. I was also reminded that in The Division, they eventually added a thing where you could re-roll you gear stats, something called Recalibration. Then you just had to grind for the resources needed for that... So, I suspect that you won't be able to pick your inscriptions, and right now, I suspect you won't be able to re-roll in order to get new ones - but as I said, this is based on some vague memory I had of a comment in a stream, and then the rest is purely conjecture on my part. I vaguely remember those comments (I can't find the video, ungh, still searching), but I don't remember whether it was about all gear or random inscriptions for dropped gear, and not crafted ones.
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 8, 2019 16:46:26 GMT
I'm completely talking without any kind of useful basis here, but I seem to remember in one of the streams they were talking about not having a mechanic for re-rolling inscriptions, and that there was a very large pool of inscriptions that would be pulled from. They said that inscriptions on equipment would only be rolled from certain sub-pools of possible inscriptions with different gear pieces selecting from different sub-pools. For example (just making this up), weapons might not give +flight time or +shield regen inscriptions. This effectively reduces some of the randomness of inscriptions.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 8, 2019 16:55:49 GMT
Pilot Skill Tree, as originally mentioned made no sense to me. Gear leveling outstripped any increase in Jav skill handling ability.... good riddance.
However, from a grind PoV, it makes sense. From a beginner's handling of the Ranger to an Ace flying the Storm.... able to deliver more pain to the enemy. But, this straight jacketed you in one Jav. ... master of one or of none, depending on your skill point allocation.
Re-introducing this skill tree will only unbalance the game as a player can easily overpower their favourite Jav.. And, if the Pilot Skill only adds a small percentage to an ability, what's the point? Besides, there is no decision dilemmas here. I think of it as an increase in a skill/ability via a consumable.
I'd prefer a consumable drop to a Pilot Skill Tree.
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Beerfish
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 8, 2019 18:19:52 GMT
I was searching high and low for a pilot skill tree during the demos after levelling.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 8, 2019 21:00:48 GMT
Having all of this and a meaningful pilot skill tree that adds to your characters persona, represents their training both past and ongoing, adds gameplay specifics to their proclivity with the machine they spend so much time with .... none of this is mutually exclusive. They could both very meaningfully coexist without any need to 'repec your pilot' to account for Javelin specifics.No, this actually IS mutually exclusive - and quite a headache for someone like me, who likes to shuffle loadouts and classes/Javelins. It is not mutually exclusive. You are just imagining it in a far different way from me. Over the course of my life I have had to operate several different types of heavy machinery, from different manufacturers, and for wildly different purposes. I don't have to respec myself to use a different machine. Many of the core skills and training are applicable across different machines and functions. Some are more specific. A competent RPG system for an operator that provides a meaningful progression system that can apply in general to a specific machine type as well as provide utility for multiple machine types isn't some kind of lost quark in a subatomic haystack. It's completely possible.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 21:17:49 GMT
No, this actually IS mutually exclusive - and quite a headache for someone like me, who likes to shuffle loadouts and classes/Javelins. It is not mutually exclusive. You are just imagining it in a far different way from me. Over the course of my life I have had to operate several different types of heavy machinery, from different manufacturers, and for wildly different purposes. I don't have to respec myself to use a different machine. Many of the core skills and training are applicable across different machines and functions. Some are more specific. A competent RPG system for an operator that provides a meaningful progression system that can apply in general to a specific machine type as well as provide utility for multiple machine types isn't some kind of lost quark in a subatomic haystack. It's completely possible. Y
We don't have skill trees in real life in which we put points to make ourselves stronger or unlock knowledge or luck to find nice loot, which then prevents us from gaining skills we don't put points on in opposite branches So you're basically making a case for NO skill tree - because everything you say is entirely applicable to speccing separate Javelins based on our meta-knowledge of combat and balancing and then player's own skills in piloting Javelins. Also - mokeylungs... this is about 4th or 5th time where I see you detailing what you WANT from a skill tree (it should be this! They should a competent skill tree that should provide me that! Give me this, Bioware or else...!) while at the same time completely failing to give us examples of how it could work. Most of us here played RPGs, we are at least roughly familiar with different systems and skill trees and yet till now I don't really see many people giving decent examples of how a general skill tree could work in Anthem, with its gallery of different Javelins/classes and builds without it being underwhelming, useless or frustrating.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 8, 2019 21:23:58 GMT
It is not mutually exclusive. You are just imagining it in a far different way from me. Over the course of my life I have had to operate several different types of heavy machinery, from different manufacturers, and for wildly different purposes. I don't have to respec myself to use a different machine. Many of the core skills and training are applicable across different machines and functions. Some are more specific. A competent RPG system for an operator that provides a meaningful progression system that can apply in general to a specific machine type as well as provide utility for multiple machine types isn't some kind of lost quark in a subatomic haystack. It's completely possible. Y
We don't have skill trees in real life in which we put points to make ourselves stronger or unlock knowledge or luck to find nice loot, which then prevents us from gaining skills we don't put points on in opposite branches So you're basically making a case for NO skill tree - because everything you say is entirely applicable to speccing separate Javelins based on our meta-knowledge of combat and balancing and then player's own skills how to pilot Javelins. Also - mokeylungs... this is about 4th or 5th time where I see you detailing what you WANT from a skill tree (it should be this! They should a competent skill tree that should provide me that! Give me this, Bioware or else...!) while at the same time completely failing to give us examples of how it could work. Most of us here played RPGs, we are all familiar with different system and skill tress and yet till now I don't really see many people giving decent examples of how a general skill tree could work in Anthem, with its gallery of different Javelins/classes and builds. You keep making up shit.
I've never said give me this or else.
I'm making a suggestion and drawing on real life experience to add weight to the suggestion.
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