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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:45:24 GMT
Whatever the merits/demerits of the change, it's the change itself that is going to start a whole new wave of negativity. "BIOWARE LIED!" Which means now, to those looking for reasons to gloat over negativity, everything they have promised is suspect or an outright lie. I think this is a marketing facepalm moment. And again, the ugly side of transparency. People would have to quickly forget how often they underlined that the game is still unreleased and that everything in it may change, or that it's a live service game so the features may come/come back to it later.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 6, 2019 15:49:49 GMT
Everything is going to be better later on ... Hey, man, I'm sorry PSN wouldn't let you cancel your preorder... Hopefully, you genuinely find some joy in the game. I played both the Alpha and both demos and found enough there to meet my expectations...hope you get to that point since you were able to, from what it sounds like, to enjoy "ME:A" as much as I did.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 6, 2019 15:51:44 GMT
Sure, just snap your fingers and BAM! - a not-underwhelming skill tree! That's how game development works... right? Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
Hey cool it with the insults, I get it you’re disappointed with the game but let’s calm down here please.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:52:33 GMT
Everything is going to be better later on ... And why it shouldn't be? Current gaming market knows an f-ton of games that were bad/underwhelming/lacking/ok-but-could-be-better at launch and then just got better and better. ESO (I know, I was there for a pretty bad launch in 2014). Warframe. Rainbow Six Siege. No Man's Sky. Sea of Thieves. Destiny 1 and 2. Fortnite. Your beloved MEA also became way better with patches, as did DAI. That's how it is with constantly-updated games of today with a robust support/live-service period... and Bioware keeps hammering the point that way more is possible with Anthem than with any of their previous titles.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 6, 2019 15:53:40 GMT
Sure, just snap your fingers and BAM! - a not-underwhelming skill tree! That's how game development works... right? Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
That's not how it works.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 15:55:29 GMT
Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
That's not how it works. It definitely merits this clip
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 16:07:21 GMT
Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
That's not how it works. Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
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Post by crossngen on Feb 6, 2019 16:10:24 GMT
Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
And that's what they're doing right now, but these things take time to design, so it's not gonna be in the release build of the game.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 16:11:02 GMT
Everything is going to be better later on ... And why it shouldn't be? Current gaming market knows an f-ton of games that were bad/underwhelming/lacking/ok-but-could-be-better at launch and then just got better and better. ESO (I know, I was there for a pretty bad launch in 2014). Warframe. Rainbow Six Siege. No Man's Sky. Sea of Thieves. Destiny 1 and 2. Fortnite. Your beloved MEA also became way better with patches, as did DAI. That's how it is with constantly-updated games of today with a robust support/live-service period... and Bioware keeps hammering the point that way more is possible with Anthem than with any of their previous titles. Fair point.
It just feels like Anthem has a lot further to go.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 6, 2019 16:12:09 GMT
Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
They already moved the same stuff to components and made that system significantly more meaningful than the pilot skill tree ever could be. It works much better.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 16:12:54 GMT
Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
Yep - if you have all the time in the world. But game development for games that actually have release schedules doesn't work that way. Fortunately, Anthem is a live service game, so even if we don't get stuff at launch, the devs can spend more time to reiterate and create meaningful skill tree and add it when they're happier with it than the previous iteration.
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 16:15:12 GMT
Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
Yep - if you have all the time in the world. But game development for games that actually have release schedules doesn't work that way. Fortunately, Anthem is a live service game, so even if we don't get stuff at launch, the devs can spend more time to reiterate and create meaningful skill tree and add it when they're happier with it than the previous iteration. Yeah they probably need about 10 years to really develop a game.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 16:18:21 GMT
And why it shouldn't be? Current gaming market knows an f-ton of games that were bad/underwhelming/lacking/ok-but-could-be-better at launch and then just got better and better. ESO (I know, I was there for a pretty bad launch in 2014). Warframe. Rainbow Six Siege. No Man's Sky. Sea of Thieves. Destiny 1 and 2. Fortnite. Your beloved MEA also became way better with patches, as did DAI. That's how it is with constantly-updated games of today with a robust support/live-service period... and Bioware keeps hammering the point that way more is possible with Anthem than with any of their previous titles. Fair point.
It just feels like Anthem has a lot further to go.
It will certainly take some time to settle. That's how it usually is with games of that kind. The question is whether you're interested in being a part of that journey, with all its ups and downs. For me, this is one of the things that gets me to play long-time, aside from gameplay itself - seeing how games grow and evolve over time like a living thing. I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea though.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 16:23:49 GMT
Yep - if you have all the time in the world. But game development for games that actually have release schedules doesn't work that way. Fortunately, Anthem is a live service game, so even if we don't get stuff at launch, the devs can spend more time to reiterate and create meaningful skill tree and add it when they're happier with it than the previous iteration. Yeah they probably need about 10 years to really develop a game. Some games are so big, ambitious or complicated that they actually do. And we are talking about a game that potentially may have 10 years of live service plan...
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 6, 2019 16:32:32 GMT
Sure it is. You reiterate and create a meaningful skill tree that is fun to advance in and provides identity, differentiation and gameplay enhancements for the players' character.
It's exactly how it works.
Yep - if you have all the time in the world. But game development for games that actually have release schedules doesn't work that way. Fortunately, Anthem is a live service game, so even if we don't get stuff at launch, the devs can spend more time to reiterate and create meaningful skill tree and add it when they're happier with it than the previous iteration.
I'd rephrase it to say that, live-service is new content that is intended to generates monetisation revenue.
How that is done/works remains to be seen. However, given that Anthem's mtxs are based solely on vanity items (so far) monetisation = discouraging in game purchases and keeping players engaged. To that end, I think focusing on smooth game play, new varied maps, better Ai, randomising mission content, adding consumable mission only boost drops and easy intuitive menu navigation goes a long way, imo.
EDIT: I'd add random consumables
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2019 16:40:02 GMT
Yep - if you have all the time in the world. But game development for games that actually have release schedules doesn't work that way. Fortunately, Anthem is a live service game, so even if we don't get stuff at launch, the devs can spend more time to reiterate and create meaningful skill tree and add it when they're happier with it than the previous iteration.
I'd rephrase it to say that, live-service is new content that is intended to generates monetisation revenue.
How that is done/works remains to be seen. However, given that Anthem's mtxs are based solely on vanity items (so far) monetisation = discouraging in game purchases and keeping players engaged. To that end, I think focusing on smooth game play, new varied maps, better Ai, randomising mission content, adding consumable mission only boost drops and easy intuitive menu navigation goes a long way, imo. If the skill tree encourages people to play then it will probably be improved and then re-added. Seems that Bioware devs thought that the way it was, it didn't really bring much to the game, hence they preferred to scoop it up and either remake it or offer something better via Javelin customization. Developers' passion and engagement or responsiveness to players can encourage people to support the product.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 6, 2019 17:00:44 GMT
I ... heard ... that as well So make the skill tree good instead of underwhelming? Do I wish they had a competent skill tree from Day One? Yes. I need you to understand that I'm not excusing them taking out the skill tree system. I'm only voicing that it wouldn't have made a significant enough impact on the game (that's why I emphasized the word "trust"). Part of the problem with a pilot skill tree system is that the bonuses you get from leveling are being applied to every Javelin. You might be someone who enjoys playing the Storm, and so you'll use your pilot skill points to put them in pilot skills that are geared for that particular Javelin. However, because each Javelin has their own unique strengths, if you make the passives too strong, they might be game-breaking when used on another Javelin. To say the least, the bonuses end up being negligible as a result; to compensate. When you also factor in that you would have to respec every time you want specialize for a different Javelin (or just trying a different build on your favorite), things also become tedious. Preferably, there should just be a unique skill tree for every Javelin; allowing for multiple build and skill branches as well. In addition, you should have multiple skill tree loadouts you can switch before expeditions. This allows them to become more worthwhile, but something like that requires more work than a universal skill tree. It sucks, and earlier and better informed playtesting should have revealed their initial pilot skill tree to be lacking. Do its removal will ruin the game? No. Anthem wouldn't be the only game of this style releasing without a skill tree system. Warframe does something similar, putting more emphasis on mods (which are equivalent to Anthems components). Leveling up your Warframe unlocks and upgrades the frames skills and stats, but this is largely static. I think The Division was also similar to this, where you only unlocked new abilities by completing missions or turning in faction points. I get your frustration though.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 6, 2019 17:04:31 GMT
So make the skill tree good instead of underwhelming? Do I wish they had a competent skill tree from Day One? Yes. I need you to understand that I'm not excusing them taking out the skill tree system. I'm only voicing that it wouldn't have made a significant enough impact on the game (that's why I emphasized the word "trust"). Part of the problem with a pilot skill tree system is that you're bonuses you get from leveling are being applied to every Javelin. You might be someone who enjoys playing the Storm, and when you initial put points into the passives, they've geared for that particular Javelin. However, because each Javelin has their own strengths and weaknesses, if you make the passives too strong, they might be game-breaking for another Javelin. To say the least, the bonuses become negligible as a result. When you factor in that you would have to respec every time you want specialize for a different Javelin (or just trying a different build on your favorite), things become tedious. Preferably, there should just be a unique skill tree for every Javelin; allowing for multiple build and skill branches as well. This allows them to become more worthwhile, but something like that requires more work than a universal skill tree. It sucks, and earlier and better informed playtesting should have revealed their initial pilot skill tree to be lacking. Do I think that'll ruin the game? No. Anthem wouldn't be the only game of this style releasing without a skill tree system. Warframe does something similar, putting more emphasis on mods (which are equivalent to Anthems components). Leveling up your Warframe unlocks and upgrades the frames skills and stats, but this is largely static. I think The Division was also similar to this, where you only unlocked new abilities by completing missions or turning in faction points. I get your frustration though. I'm with you on the first paragraph. As to the second, six component slots is more than enough to foster unique builds, and they include unique passive components for each javelin that would be part of a skill tree. Let's let that system play out before we complain.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 6, 2019 17:13:26 GMT
Their word is not evidence. The words of the developer means nothing? Their reasoning for why they made a design choice is immediately suspect? I'm sure that not everything they say can be taken as 100% gospel, however in the face of no contradictory proof, their assertions about their own game stand stronger than any thoughts to the contrary without any evidence.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 6, 2019 17:17:33 GMT
Yep.
EDIT: Sorry forgot to add ... If you're not an idiot.
Hey cool it with the insults, I get it you’re disappointed with the game but let’s calm down here please. You should go be a moderator somewhere. Not here, but somewhere. Else. The insult is at BioWare, not you. Fuck BioWare if they can't take it. You are not a moderator, don't tell people how to post. I am sure you wasted everyone's time reporting that post too... Get a life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 17:24:19 GMT
Yeah they probably need about 10 years to really develop a game. Some games are so big, ambitious or complicated that they actually do. And we are talking about a game that potentially may have 10 years of live service plan... I've never once bought in to this 10 year marketing crap. In 10 years Bioware will be on its 3rd Anthem if it does well enough. Bungie was riding high when the whole "10 year plan" first made headlines until it went too far and they finally had to say there wasn't one. Of course that was only AFTER the game came out. 3 years in to the game's life cycle we get Destiny 2 and the rest is history. Bioware didn't even think that Andromeda deserved DLC with a projected 6-9 million sales figure. With Anthem being projected around 4-5 million, how long do you really think it'll be getting any real development time? Especially with them saying Mass Effect isn't dead and DA4 on the horizon. I feel a lot of people see only the short term within Bioware's development. EA is starting to feel the heat with several countries pulling away from its monetization practices. I don't see them giving Bioware any extra hirelings (or at least enough) for 3 major IP's. If Anthem completely hits it out the park...maybe?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 17:26:37 GMT
Hey cool it with the insults, I get it you’re disappointed with the game but let’s calm down here please. You should go be a moderator somewhere. Not here, but somewhere. Else. The insult is at BioWare, not you. Fuck BioWare if they can't take it. You are not a moderator, don't tell people how to post. I am sure you wasted everyone's time reporting that post too... Get a life. Hold on...you forgot this...
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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 6, 2019 17:31:50 GMT
There are so many ways you could build a meaningful skilltree for the Javelin Pilots.
There are a LOT of things pilots, or even just equipment operators do and learn that have to do with their understanding/skillset of the equipment and machinery (planes, cranes, trains, etc.) and that could work in conjunction with the gear system.
Not to mention the physical and psychological requirement/s of being a pilot for a mech suit that does the kind of stuff you do in Anthem.
There is an endless amount of meaningful RPG systems that could be built around this aspect of your character.
I also think there should be more RPG going in Fort Tarsis. With quests and political intrigue, and complex social interaction and this could open up opportunities for social skills.
Who is our pilot outside of the Javelin? Do they matter as a character?
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 6, 2019 17:40:03 GMT
I also think there should be more RPG going in Fort Tarsis. With quests and political intrigue, and complex social interaction and this could open up opportunities for social skills. This is never going to happen. All the Fort Tarsis stuff that's in the game is basically a value-added proposition for Anthem. It is not the main focus of the game. The meat of the game is basically everything that happens outside of the fort. Adding what you suggested would basically turn Anthem into a different game, to the point where it would just be better to make a new game with those features rather than trying to shoehorn them into a game that was never designed to support such features.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 6, 2019 18:34:17 GMT
Hey cool it with the insults, I get it you’re disappointed with the game but let’s calm down here please. You should go be a moderator somewhere. Not here, but somewhere. Else. The insult is at BioWare, not you. Fuck BioWare if they can't take it. You are not a moderator, don't tell people how to post. I am sure you wasted everyone's time reporting that post too... Get a life. What is your problem? Seriously? I asked him to calm down.
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