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Post by monkeylungs on Feb 8, 2019 21:27:50 GMT
We don't have skill trees in real life in which we put points to make ourselves stronger or unlock knowledge or luck to find nice loot, which then prevents us from gaining skills we don't put points on in opposite branches Skill trees in an RPG are an abstraction of things we really DO have in real life. Or in the case of something fantastical something the character really does have in their imaginary life.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 22:03:23 GMT
We don't have skill trees in real life in which we put points to make ourselves stronger or unlock knowledge or luck to find nice loot, which then prevents us from gaining skills we don't put points on in opposite branches So you're basically making a case for NO skill tree - because everything you say is entirely applicable to speccing separate Javelins based on our meta-knowledge of combat and balancing and then player's own skills how to pilot Javelins. Also - mokeylungs... this is about 4th or 5th time where I see you detailing what you WANT from a skill tree (it should be this! They should a competent skill tree that should provide me that! Give me this, Bioware or else...!) while at the same time completely failing to give us examples of how it could work. Most of us here played RPGs, we are all familiar with different system and skill tress and yet till now I don't really see many people giving decent examples of how a general skill tree could work in Anthem, with its gallery of different Javelins/classes and builds. You keep making up shit.
I've never said give me this or else.
I'm making a suggestion and drawing on real life experience to add weight to the suggestion. You've made it abundantly clear what you think of Bioware or their decisions to remove the skill tree (even though they didn't just cut out the feature without compensating for it - they buffed and reconfigured the Javelin gear to balance out the removal), to a point that you now simply *reject* rationale for their decisions or assurances that they're continuously working on making the game better. I understand wanting a skill tree because you like them - I don't necessarily understand the insistence for it to be there, regardless whether it's actually a useful feature in a specific game environment, at least as it is now. Suggestions are really easy to make. Solutions... not necessarily. And drawing from real life to add weight to suggestions for a system that is effectively un-real-life-like? Like I said - it sounded more like a suggestion for no skill tree because all you describe applies to our own RL skills as players playing the game. So far we have the gear system to play with. In the future Bioware may find a venue for a skill tree and make it meaningful in one way or another.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 22:22:04 GMT
We don't have skill trees in real life in which we put points to make ourselves stronger or unlock knowledge or luck to find nice loot, which then prevents us from gaining skills we don't put points on in opposite branches Skill trees in an RPG are an abstraction of things we really DO have in real life. Or in the case of something fantastical something the character really does have in their imaginary life. An abstraction symbolizing something from real life doesn't mean it has to (or even can) work like in real life. They're abstractions after all. And unless we're talking about a specific or fourth-wall-breaking narrative, a majority of RPG characters don't have skill trees or aren't aware of having them. That's a gameplay feature for player's convenience. Never mind that this is not really an issue here - you're making a case for a specific abstraction, namely a skill tree, when in reality progression in the game can be symbolized by variety of different things: like Javelin progression in combat, or evolution of Fort Tarsis to reflect our progression throughout the story. And Javelins/Fort Tarsis is what Freelancers do indeed have in their in-universe lives. So again, you're making a case for lack of a skill tree
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 8, 2019 22:28:22 GMT
You keep making up shit.
I've never said give me this or else.
I'm making a suggestion and drawing on real life experience to add weight to the suggestion. You've made it abundantly clear what you think of Bioware or their decisions to remove the skill tree (even though they didn't just cut out the feature without compensating for it - they buffed and reconfigured the Javelin gear to balance out the removal), to a point that you now simply *reject* rationale for their decisions or assurances that they're continuously working on making the game better. I understand wanting a skill tree because you like them - I don't necessarily understand the insistence for it to be there, regardless whether it's actually a useful feature in a specific game environment, at least as it is now. Suggestions are really easy to make. Solutions... not necessarily. And drawing from real life to add weight to suggestions for a system that is effectively un-real-life-like? Like I said - it sounded more like a suggestion for no skill tree because all you describe applies to our own RL skills as players playing the game. So far we have the gear system to play with. In the future Bioware may find a venue for a skill tree and make it meaningful in one way or another. Yeah, I actually like the way that games like RDR2 do their skills, instead of skill trees. In RDR2, if you run around a whole lot, you get a stamina increase. If you use Deadeye a lot and effectively (many headshots, etc), then you get increase to your Deadeye skill. That kind of thing makes more sense to me than the "You reached level 15! Suddenly you know how to teleport!" Some games get around this by having the skill tree involve actual technical upgrades (i.e. Deus Ex), so that makes some amount of sense, but overall I like the nuance of the RDR2 model. One thing that always bugged me about ME2 was when you are aboard the Collector ship and can choose to pick up the Sniper Rifle (or something else, I always went sniper so I don't remember the other option ) and suddenly you are just super proficient with a Sniper Rifle?? That moment was so jarring. I kind of liked ME1 where you could equip a SR no matter what, but if your class couldn't use it then the sight just waved around a whole lot. Of course, I could be remembering any of these things slightly wrong, so feel free to (nicely) correct me if anyone wishes. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if they re-implement the pilot skill tree at some point, and I doubt I would begrudge it at all, but I'm assuredly not upset the removed it, as I've never seen it as some kind of cornerstone of RPG's.
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Post by bshep on Feb 8, 2019 22:30:49 GMT
The way it works is you cant re roll inscriptions. What you CAN do, is get a blueprint (don't know how) for the weapon, and craft it using materials you find in the world or from rewards, or ... Said crafted weapon / gear /... will have different inscriptions each time you craft it.
The only remaining unclarity is how does power level work with blueprints and rarity. Do you need to find a rare blueprint? Or do you need to find a blueprint, and each time you craft it, the weapon level is tied to your pilot level?
AFAIK we gather most blueprints via achievements - use this gear/weapon to kill, say, 50 enemies and you'll get a green blueprint. 100 for a green one. There are also likely blueprints tied to quests and progression. Masterworks may drop randomly from tougher fights, I think? And when I tried crafting in the demo it seems that whatever I've crafted followed the level I was when crafting it. I believe they unlocked via using anything from the same blueprint. When i tried i was able to make rare versions from all the firearms and javelin gear i was using . But i didn't tried with the others so i can't be totally sure.
Also, If i remember right at level 15 a rare firearm or javelin gear gives you 17 points for that total "power level" of your current mech suit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 22:48:53 GMT
Did a fair amount of crafting … some weapons, but mostly mods and gear. I got to level 15 on my Javelin before the end of the VIP demo. In the open demo, for those items that were open to be crafted, I could eventually get to level 19.
At first, some of the higher level stuff was locked, but as I played through the open demo, I was able to craft higher level items. I can't really say what specific thing/action/activity unlocked the higher levels, but they did.
By the end, I was able to either collect or craft all my weapons at level 19, all my gear/mods/attachments/powers … except the third power on the Interceptor. I'm guessing that if I'd played the Interceptor more, I could have gotten that to level 19 also … but that was one of the skills that was locked out of crafting, so it would have been something I picked up in loot.
The Interceptor got shortchanged, because I spent a fair amount of time trying to learn to play the Colossus. The Ranger, Storm and Interceptor were pretty intuitive for me, but I struggled with the Colossus. I have learned how to spell Colossus now. So there's that. I spent very little time with the Colossus in the VIP demo, probably spend the most time with it in the open demo.
In any case, the Interceptor got short shrift … otherwise, I'd probably have gotten all its upgrades to level 19. I saw somewhere, the algorithm for gear and weapons. It is tied to Freelancer levels, then they add modifiers. Wish I could tell you where I saw it … might have been the article with all the spoilers. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd find it and post it. But I am, so I won't.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 23:08:49 GMT
You've made it abundantly clear what you think of Bioware or their decisions to remove the skill tree (even though they didn't just cut out the feature without compensating for it - they buffed and reconfigured the Javelin gear to balance out the removal), to a point that you now simply *reject* rationale for their decisions or assurances that they're continuously working on making the game better. I understand wanting a skill tree because you like them - I don't necessarily understand the insistence for it to be there, regardless whether it's actually a useful feature in a specific game environment, at least as it is now. Suggestions are really easy to make. Solutions... not necessarily. And drawing from real life to add weight to suggestions for a system that is effectively un-real-life-like? Like I said - it sounded more like a suggestion for no skill tree because all you describe applies to our own RL skills as players playing the game. So far we have the gear system to play with. In the future Bioware may find a venue for a skill tree and make it meaningful in one way or another. Yeah, I actually like the way that games like RDR2 do their skills, instead of skill trees. In RDR2, if you run around a whole lot, you get a stamina increase. If you use Deadeye a lot and effectively (many headshots, etc), then you get increase to your Deadeye skill. That kind of thing makes more sense to me than the "You reached level 15! Suddenly you know how to teleport!" Some games get around this by having the skill tree involve actual technical upgrades (i.e. Deus Ex), so that makes some amount of sense, but overall I like the nuance of the RDR2 model. One thing that always bugged me about ME2 was when you are aboard the Collector ship and can choose to pick up the Sniper Rifle (or something else, I always went sniper so I don't remember the other option ) and suddenly you are just super proficient with a Sniper Rifle?? That moment was so jarring. I kind of liked ME1 where you could equip a SR no matter what, but if your class couldn't use it then the sight just waved around a whole lot. Of course, I could be remembering any of these things slightly wrong, so feel free to (nicely) correct me if anyone wishes. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if they re-implement the pilot skill tree at some point, and I doubt I would begrudge it at all, but I'm assuredly not upset the removed it, as I've never seen it as some kind of cornerstone of RPG's. Yea, there are different progression systems in different games - I think skill trees is just something many games default to, though even then there are so many different takes on how skill tree should look or work like. I think it matters more how all those different systems are implemented than what they actually are... gosh, the times when I had to stop everything and jump a lot to quickly level acrobatics in TES: Oblivion, aaah, good times What a convoluted thing that attributes system was. IMO they made a good call in Skyrim to make things simpler - the old adage of 'less is more' has proven true once again. Plus, it's not like the progression system in Anthem is just a flat increase in rarity or level of gear itself. It's an achievement-oriented system. We have literal rewards for using specific gear and weapons in form of acquiring progressively better blueprints and the game rewards pulling out headshots/weakpoints by further achievements, unlocks and XP. It's just a different way to do things and Bioware seems interested with evolving it in the future. If updates provide something other than a skill tree that just... 'should be there', I'm not going to protest. Oh, but hey... I can also see how progression can be expanded via achievements - you manage to get achievements for 100 headshots? Ok, a slight increase in accuracy. You completed a challenge to fly uninterrupted for 5 minutes - ok, you get 5% to flight and hover duration. Withstood 5 punches from this boss? Have an armor increase. Bioware than can build an entirely decorative tree that will act predominantly as a guide to certain achievements.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 8, 2019 23:15:41 GMT
AFAIK we gather most blueprints via achievements - use this gear/weapon to kill, say, 50 enemies and you'll get a green blueprint. 100 for a green one. There are also likely blueprints tied to quests and progression. Masterworks may drop randomly from tougher fights, I think? And when I tried crafting in the demo it seems that whatever I've crafted followed the level I was when crafting it. I believe they unlocked via using anything from the same blueprint. When i tried i was able to make rare versions from all the firearms and javelin gear i was using . But i didn't tried with the others so i can't be totally sure.
Also, If i remember right at level 15 a rare firearm or javelin gear gives you 17 points for that total "power level" of your current mech suit.
I have to wonder what may be the differences between the demo and the full game. Arrgh, still at least a week to find out. But I will probably limit the amount of crafting I do to necessities, unless the game is generous with mats, just to build a proper stack of everything for crafting when I reach the endgame and then see how the game changes from update to update.
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Post by MrsFlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyingKebab on Feb 9, 2019 17:55:52 GMT
Random thought after reading most of the thread: They could introduce a Fort Tarsis-specific skill tree, that applies just to your pilot while there: @level 5: you can run a bit faster @level 10: you can run a bit faster and someone cleans the inside of your javelin while you're out of it @level 20: you're popular enough you get a vault size upgrade. And you can run faster still max level: A new leisure area opens up where you can play mini games like: DAI-themed Connect4, MEA trampoline simulator, or ME3MP. Oh and you can run like the wind! So much potential
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 18:01:33 GMT
Madame (I can call you Madame, right?) … I've missed all your subtle wisdom and insight … Please, continue to honor us with your posts.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 9, 2019 18:20:14 GMT
Random thought after reading most of the thread: They could introduce a Fort Tarsis-specific skill tree, that applies just to your pilot while there: @level 5: you can run a bit faster @level 10: you can run a bit faster and someone cleans the inside of your javelin while you're out of it @level 20: you're popular enough you get a vault size upgrade. And you can run faster still max level: A new leisure area opens up where you can play mini games like: DAI-themed Connect4, MEA trampoline simulator, or ME3MP. Oh and you can run like the wind! So much potential Brilliant! You gave me an idea. If someday they granted us a customizable apartment in Tarsis, maybe at level 10 we could get a Fish Tank, and then at level 15 Kelly Chambers can come by and clean it and feed the fish while you're out FreeLancing!
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 9, 2019 21:36:40 GMT
You're gonna craft your rear off until you hit the combination of inscriptions on that piece of equipment. And the more content is out the more you need to roll the dice. Unless they introduce ways to counteract the dilution. I get the feeling that we'll eventually get something like the "Recalibration Station" from The Division. It won't be there at launch, but the playerbase is going to be screaming for it soon enough. They already screamed for it on Reddit. So far, Bioware has said no. Not even "maybe after launch." Just no. Which is fine with me, because what I'd rather have is destructive transfer. I have the Incription I want on crummy weapon X, and I have a slot that can take it on good weapon Y, let me use the Forge to transfer it from X to Y. If it destroys X, I'm fine with that. If it destroys the Inscription in Y that is receiving the new Inscription, I'm fine with that too. That's worth it to me to not have to pray to RNGesus yet again.
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Post by bshep on Feb 9, 2019 23:00:31 GMT
How does that work on Division?
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Post by biggydx on Feb 10, 2019 0:16:48 GMT
How does that work on Division? IIRC, once you've collected enough resources for the item you're trying to recalibrate, the game would allow you to modify one of the passive slots on the gear item you have. Each slot can poll from a specific set of stats (Ex. Firepower, SMG Damage, Enemy Armor Damage, etc). You select one of the passive slots you want to reroll, and a list of other stats that can take its place pop up. Once you reroll the slot, a set amount random stats would be chosen from the possible stat pool, and you would pick which one you want. You can reroll any slot you want, as many times as you want, but each time the reroll cost would increase.
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Post by tjmitchem on Feb 10, 2019 0:20:21 GMT
I get the feeling that we'll eventually get something like the "Recalibration Station" from The Division. It won't be there at launch, but the playerbase is going to be screaming for it soon enough. They already screamed for it on Reddit. So far, Bioware has said no. Not even "maybe after launch." Just no. Which is fine with me, because what I'd rather have is destructive transfer. I have the Incription I want on crummy weapon X, and I have a slot that can take it on good weapon Y, let me use the Forge to transfer it from X to Y. If it destroys X, I'm fine with that. If it destroys the Inscription in Y that is receiving the new Inscription, I'm fine with that too. That's worth it to me to not have to pray to RNGesus yet again. Targeted Infusion. I can live with that.
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