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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 2:46:52 GMT
OK - portion of the Gulf of Mexico.
I don't think even the rachni would be dug in deeper than 30 km.
True but they would be able to survive the resulting effect of the impact unless the nest was struck directly. Given what we saw in Styx Theta (which was after the rachni were mostly wiped out), there were probably several nests within a 100 km area during the Rachni wars... but whatever... My point is made... It would almost certainly do more damage to them more quickly than sending in a bunch of krogan on foot to snake through tunnels.... not to mention the longer term environmental damage to the planet.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 1, 2019 11:28:05 GMT
True but they would be able to survive the resulting effect of the impact unless the nest was struck directly. Given what we saw in Styx Theta (which was after the rachni were mostly wiped out), there were probably several nests within a 100 km area during the Rachni wars... but whatever... My point is made... It would almost certainly do more damage to them more quickly than sending in a bunch of krogan on foot to snake through tunnels.... not to mention the longer term environmental damage to the planet. Probably several nests but also remember the scale of the planet. The asteroid that hit the Yucatan peninsula actually did very little direct damage. Assuming it was the kill shot that wiped out the dinos. The real killer was the after effects and as per linked in the article just because it hit a sweet spot to cause more damage. Any nests situated in Florida or Brazil would have been left undamaged by the strike. Equally the Rachnni are or at least were technological equals to the Asari and Salarians of the time. They would be just as equally capable of dropping massive asteroids from orbit. So your idea of a quick easy fix would be instantly used against you. How ever as shown the Rachni would be able to survive on toxic planets that couldn't support races like Asari, Salarian or even Krogan. Given every reference has the word endure in regard to Krogan activity on Rachni worlds.
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 2, 2019 4:29:26 GMT
Their biology had jack shit to do with why they nuked themselves. If biology had anything to do with how society functioned then just going to your local grocery store would be filled with people young and old and in many cases old with young fornicating all over the store. No the Krogans have a predisposition towards violence because of the physiological development of living on a dangerous world that put the Krogan only about mid way on the food chain.Need I say anything when you are going to just say it for me? Yes, the krogan's psychology has been shaped by their environment. Psychology is a product of biology and the environment that has shaped it and continues to shape it. That's a fact. It's one you just admitted. You should try reading some books about biology and evolution in addition to some good, hard or medium science fiction. I'll have you know I read great stuff. I'll provide you a list if you'd like.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 2, 2019 12:45:51 GMT
Their biology had jack shit to do with why they nuked themselves. If biology had anything to do with how society functioned then just going to your local grocery store would be filled with people young and old and in many cases old with young fornicating all over the store. No the Krogans have a predisposition towards violence because of the physiological development of living on a dangerous world that put the Krogan only about mid way on the food chain.Need I say anything when you are going to just say it for me? Yes, the krogan's psychology has been shaped by their environment. Psychology is a product of biology and the environment that has shaped it and continues to shape it. That's a fact. It's one you just admitted. You should try reading some books about biology and evolution in addition to some good, hard or medium science fiction. I'll have you know I read great stuff. I'll provide you a list if you'd like. The biggest problem with the krogan is that their technological advancement is way beyond their physiology. Tbh, I can't figure out how they could have developed any sort of culture when each krogan female was hatching a thousand babies during any given year. Literally impossible. It means a mutation must have occurred to force a thousand eggs per female because nearly all of them would die. Maybe, eventually, this would have evened out and an advanced civilization could have arisen, but it's not the case. This is why so few of them are fit to engage in galactic society and certainly not as a species. They're best left on Tuchanka until they sort it out. Some of this is contrary to the wiki but if just the number of females in my local town had a thousand children in a year, civilization would suffer. They would produce 14.5 million children. Now go to someplace like NYC. The number of children born is in the billions. Unsustainable to the extent that there would be no civilization. Which is why the wiki can't make any sense.
All that said, I still save the krogan. I could RP, if I want, that salarians work on a "genophage" that, rather than cause only one in a thousand eggs to hatch, instead causes far fewer eggs to be lain, maybe even just one. With advanced technology they could find ways to deal with Kalros - not lethally (no way they'd do that after she took down a Reaper) - but in a way that keeps her somewhat restrained. Maybe that means seeing that she's fed. Whatever the case, the krogan could be handled so threat is lessened. Maybe anger management from the asari. lol
If the rachni were alive, wouldn't it be interesting if they were allowed a planet near krogan space? Could keep both of them in check.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 2, 2019 15:14:04 GMT
Their biology had jack shit to do with why they nuked themselves. If biology had anything to do with how society functioned then just going to your local grocery store would be filled with people young and old and in many cases old with young fornicating all over the store. No the Krogans have a predisposition towards violence because of the physiological development of living on a dangerous world that put the Krogan only about mid way on the food chain.Need I say anything when you are going to just say it for me? Yes, the krogan's psychology has been shaped by their environment. Psychology is a product of biology and the environment that has shaped it and continues to shape it. That's a fact. It's one you just admitted. You should try reading some books about biology and evolution in addition to some good, hard or medium science fiction. I'll have you know I read great stuff. I'll provide you a list if you'd like. I see my mistake now I spell checked physiological instead of Psychology. The mental development of the Krogan due to harsh conditions. That was my mistake.
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Post by burningcherry on Apr 2, 2019 19:11:01 GMT
"Find me some evidence in the games that TIM doesn't smoke salarian tobacco". I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I am asking you to prove a positive. I found you a paragraph where the omniscient narrator describes someone's thinking without any hint that she may have been wrong and another one where a distinguisher turian citizen says the same.
Maybe you prove that Cerberus wanted to keep the aliens alive?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2019 16:18:32 GMT
True but they would be able to survive the resulting effect of the impact unless the nest was struck directly. Given what we saw in Styx Theta (which was after the rachni were mostly wiped out), there were probably several nests within a 100 km area during the Rachni wars... but whatever... My point is made... It would almost certainly do more damage to them more quickly than sending in a bunch of krogan on foot to snake through tunnels.... not to mention the longer term environmental damage to the planet. This is somewhat covered in that we learn some of the rachni eggs were taken away to other planets, either intentionally or accidental. However, based on what is said in the game, they were all male. The Brood Warriors only come out when the nest is destroyed or on the brink of it. Further, the eggs we find can be destroyed, preventing more rachni from arising. Whether or not we get all the eggs we definitely reduce the population.
I agree that using krogan to root them out is a waste of time. Shepard was well-equipped to do so, probably because their numbers were relatively few on these other worlds.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 4, 2019 18:02:36 GMT
Need I say anything when you are going to just say it for me? Yes, the krogan's psychology has been shaped by their environment. Psychology is a product of biology and the environment that has shaped it and continues to shape it. That's a fact. It's one you just admitted. You should try reading some books about biology and evolution in addition to some good, hard or medium science fiction. I'll have you know I read great stuff. I'll provide you a list if you'd like. The biggest problem with the krogan is that their technological advancement is way beyond their physiology. Tbh, I can't figure out how they could have developed any sort of culture when each krogan female was hatching a thousand babies during any given year. Literally impossible. It means a mutation must have occurred to force a thousand eggs per female because nearly all of them would die. Maybe, eventually, this would have evened out and an advanced civilization could have arisen, but it's not the case. This is why so few of them are fit to engage in galactic society and certainly not as a species. They're best left on Tuchanka until they sort it out. Some of this is contrary to the wiki but if just the number of females in my local town had a thousand children in a year, civilization would suffer. They would produce 14.5 million children. Now go to someplace like NYC. The number of children born is in the billions. Unsustainable to the extent that there would be no civilization. Which is why the wiki can't make any sense.
All that said, I still save the krogan. I could RP, if I want, that salarians work on a "genophage" that, rather than cause only one in a thousand eggs to hatch, instead causes far fewer eggs to be lain, maybe even just one. With advanced technology they could find ways to deal with Kalros - not lethally (no way they'd do that after she took down a Reaper) - but in a way that keeps her somewhat restrained. Maybe that means seeing that she's fed. Whatever the case, the krogan could be handled so threat is lessened. Maybe anger management from the asari. lol
If the rachni were alive, wouldn't it be interesting if they were allowed a planet near krogan space? Could keep both of them in check.
One of the things I wondered is why didn't mordins team alter the genophage so it wouldn't be such a small amount of children. I mean they made it so you either cured the genophage or let the krogan race die. Mordin's team altered the genophage already so why didn't they make it 1 out of fifty survive or something like that. It would keep their obscenly high birth rate down without dooming the race. They would have hope and they wouldn't have the horde like they once did so they would have a chance to adapt and change into a productive member of the galaxy.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 4, 2019 18:04:38 GMT
Given what we saw in Styx Theta (which was after the rachni were mostly wiped out), there were probably several nests within a 100 km area during the Rachni wars... but whatever... My point is made... It would almost certainly do more damage to them more quickly than sending in a bunch of krogan on foot to snake through tunnels.... not to mention the longer term environmental damage to the planet. This is somewhat covered in that we learn some of the rachni eggs were taken away to other planets, either intentionally or accidental. However, based on what is said in the game, they were all male. The Brood Warriors only come out when the nest is destroyed or on the brink of it. Further, the eggs we find can be destroyed, preventing more rachni from arising. Whether or not we get all the eggs we definitely reduce the population.
I agree that using krogan to root them out is a waste of time. Shepard was well-equipped to do so, probably because their numbers were relatively few on these other worlds.
The rachni that they sent out though were insane because they weren't with the queen. If those things had a female they would have over run that planet. And remember the rachni weren't just bugs. They had ships and such.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2019 20:43:51 GMT
This is somewhat covered in that we learn some of the rachni eggs were taken away to other planets, either intentionally or accidental. However, based on what is said in the game, they were all male. The Brood Warriors only come out when the nest is destroyed or on the brink of it. Further, the eggs we find can be destroyed, preventing more rachni from arising. Whether or not we get all the eggs we definitely reduce the population.
I agree that using krogan to root them out is a waste of time. Shepard was well-equipped to do so, probably because their numbers were relatively few on these other worlds.
The rachni that they sent out though were insane because they weren't with the queen. If those things had a female they would have over run that planet. And remember the rachni weren't just bugs. They had ships and such. There's only one female at this point. We also know that, while the Protheans did make them aggressive, it was either the Reapers or Leviathan that caused the Rachni Wars. IOW, there's no reason to think they would have instigated war on their own. The ones on Noveria were crazy because of the lack of bonding with their queen. She suggests that had they not be separated from her that they would not have gone crazy. Further evidence is the Crucible. If you let the queen go free, in ME3 the rachni go to the Crucible to aid in building it. Even the slides, should the genophage not be cured, only shows the rachni on Tuchanka.
I don't think a queen on those other worlds would have led them to overrun the planets. Instead, it would have had a calming effect.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 5, 2019 1:27:04 GMT
The rachni that they sent out though were insane because they weren't with the queen. If those things had a female they would have over run that planet. And remember the rachni weren't just bugs. They had ships and such. There's only one female at this point. We also know that, while the Protheans did make them aggressive, it was either the Reapers or Leviathan that caused the Rachni Wars. IOW, there's no reason to think they would have instigated war on their own. The ones on Noveria were crazy because of the lack of bonding with their queen. She suggests that had they not be separated from her that they would not have gone crazy. Further evidence is the Crucible. If you let the queen go free, in ME3 the rachni go to the Crucible to aid in building it. Even the slides, should the genophage not be cured, only shows the rachni on Tuchanka.
I don't think a queen on those other worlds would have led them to overrun the planets. Instead, it would have had a calming effect.
I meant they could if they wanted too. I was arguing about why the krogan were needed in the rachni wars. Yeah I think the rachni were more peaceful if left alone.
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Post by 10k on Apr 5, 2019 2:33:31 GMT
The lore of the collectors states that they like trading advance tech for livings beings. Request like 2 dozen left handed salarians, 16 sets of batarian twins, or there favorite human biotics have been made. It was obvious that ME2 was in fact going down the route of the dark energy theory. I believe the reapers were always controlling the collectors, after all they were repurposed protheans. Dark energy theory states that only organics could use dark energy, and using this dark energy could affect the space time continuum (which the player in ME2 witnessed with Haestrom's unstable sun) read a little about the DE theory here. Because the reapers were immortal, essentially, they were afraid what the organic usage of dark energy means for them. Eventually it would mean their deaths. So the reapers took it upon themselves to study the effects of organics usage of dark energy by harvesting and trading for them. The only thing I still don't get is the human-reaper and where does it fit in. But because the story didn't continue with the dark energy theory, we don't know. That's why I think ME2 story doesn't really fit in. It just has a lot of loose ends that ME3 didn't tie up because it didn't follow the DE theory.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 5, 2019 4:02:46 GMT
I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I am asking you to prove a positive. I found you a paragraph where the omniscient narrator describes someone's thinking without any hint that she may have been wrong and another one where a distinguisher turian citizen says the same.
Maybe you prove that Cerberus wanted to keep the aliens alive?
The only paragraph I saw was one with a couple people talking about Cerberus. Their reliability is always questionable. And in novels involving intrigue even the narrators voice is questionable. Almost like they want intrigue which would be non existent if omniscient narrator just gave you the facts. Even without the narrator being wrong, read what you said. The narrator is relating a persons thoughts on the subject. The narrator doesn’t have to hint one way or the other. It’s that persons thoughts which may or may not be wrong. And holy crap if these books have a omniscient narrator I’m glad I passed on them.
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 6, 2019 2:06:24 GMT
The biggest problem with the krogan is that their technological advancement is way beyond their physiology. Tbh, I can't figure out how they could have developed any sort of culture when each krogan female was hatching a thousand babies during any given year. Literally impossible. It means a mutation must have occurred to force a thousand eggs per female because nearly all of them would die. Maybe, eventually, this would have evened out and an advanced civilization could have arisen, but it's not the case. This is why so few of them are fit to engage in galactic society and certainly not as a species. They're best left on Tuchanka until they sort it out. Some of this is contrary to the wiki but if just the number of females in my local town had a thousand children in a year, civilization would suffer. They would produce 14.5 million children. Now go to someplace like NYC. The number of children born is in the billions. Unsustainable to the extent that there would be no civilization. Which is why the wiki can't make any sense.
If the rachni were alive, wouldn't it be interesting if they were allowed a planet near krogan space? Could keep both of them in check.
Yeah, I agree with you. Okeer also makes some odd statements about clutches and newborn dead and such. So it makes you wonder... it seems to fly in the face of the idea that females would be hung up on their babies being stillborn (from their eggs). Krogan should not have evolved to have much empathy for new borns... and I'd imagine their newborns would basically be animals who wouldn't develop a complex psychology until after a few months, after they've killed off most of their siblings, at the earliest. Perhaps in each clutch only a handful of hatch-lings actually survived to reach adolescence? How violent was the culture in general? Constant lethal tests of strength, intelligence, and toughness right up to adulthood? Sparta but on steroids, maybe. Plopping the rachni down near krogan space might be a solution. I do wonder what the historical rachni were really like; all we get to see are savage, if clever, beasts. Presumably though they had a whole technological civilization so what might THAT have been like? How fast could they recreate one? The queen seems to have memories, if confused, from her ancestors so how much time would a reborn rachni civilization need to rebuild? They might be able to skip over a lot of development simply by having innate knowledge of their ancestors' long climb to high civilization, not to mention the capacity in the modern age to tap into the collective knowledge of the galaxy. I do wonder, what is rachni psychology like? If krogan had to evolve to be aggressive and less empathetic then what about the rachni, insect-like beings who also seem to have hundreds of young at once? Newborns who are even weaponized fresh out of the egg, ready to kamikaze into an enemy and kill it. Don't think that I'm trying to paint the rachni in an unfavorable light, but how likely is that they'd really understand concepts like compassion or trust or even 'society' as we and other individualistic races do? It might not be inaccurate or a coincidence that in fiction alien bug races and alien machine races are portrayed as being fairly similar in their tendency to form collective hive minds and then mercilessly and dispassionately swarm the individualists around them.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 6, 2019 2:28:47 GMT
The biggest problem with the krogan is that their technological advancement is way beyond their physiology. Tbh, I can't figure out how they could have developed any sort of culture when each krogan female was hatching a thousand babies during any given year. Literally impossible. It means a mutation must have occurred to force a thousand eggs per female because nearly all of them would die. Maybe, eventually, this would have evened out and an advanced civilization could have arisen, but it's not the case. This is why so few of them are fit to engage in galactic society and certainly not as a species. They're best left on Tuchanka until they sort it out. Some of this is contrary to the wiki but if just the number of females in my local town had a thousand children in a year, civilization would suffer. They would produce 14.5 million children. Now go to someplace like NYC. The number of children born is in the billions. Unsustainable to the extent that there would be no civilization. Which is why the wiki can't make any sense.
If the rachni were alive, wouldn't it be interesting if they were allowed a planet near krogan space? Could keep both of them in check.
Yeah, I agree with you. Okeer also makes some odd statements about clutches and newborn dead and such. So it makes you wonder... it seems to fly in the face of the idea that females would be hung up on their babies being stillborn (from their eggs). Krogan should not have evolved to have much empathy for new borns... and I'd imagine their newborns would basically be animals who wouldn't develop a complex psychology until after a few months, after they've killed off most of their siblings, at the earliest. Perhaps in each clutch only a handful of hatch-lings actually survived to reach adolescence? How violent was the culture in general? Constant lethal tests of strength, intelligence, and toughness right up to adulthood? Sparta but on steroids, maybe. Plopping the rachni down near krogan space might be a solution. I do wonder what the historical rachni were really like; all we get to see are savage, if clever, beasts. Presumably though they had a whole technological civilization so what might THAT have been like? How fast could they recreate one? The queen seems to have memories, if confused, from her ancestors so how much time would a reborn rachni civilization need to rebuild? They might be able to skip over a lot of development simply by having innate knowledge of their ancestors' long climb to high civilization, not to mention the capacity in the modern age to tap into the collective knowledge of the galaxy. I do wonder, what is rachni psychology like? If krogan had to evolve to be aggressive and less empathetic then what about the rachni, insect-like beings who also seem to have hundreds of young at once? Newborns who are even weaponized fresh out of the egg, ready to kamikaze into an enemy and kill it. Don't think that I'm trying to paint the rachni in an unfavorable light, but how likely is that they'd really understand concepts like compassion or trust or even 'society' as we and other individualistic races do? It might not be inaccurate or a coincidence that in fiction alien bug races and alien machine races are portrayed as being fairly similar in their tendency to form collective hive minds and then mercilessly and dispassionately swarm the individualists around them. Their planet was so deadly that they needed a high birth rate to keep them from going extinct. As for why they care about their young so much it could be that since so few survive they now have to make sure they live and need to nurture them.
I still say that they should have "altered" the genophage rather then make it a cure or not cure thing. Maybe have it were on out of ten survive. It would allow their race to keep going and yet not enough to have their hordes they were known for. Everyone wins
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 6, 2019 14:37:55 GMT
Their planet was so deadly that they needed a high birth rate to keep them from going extinct. As for why they care about their young so much it could be that since so few survive they now have to make sure they live and need to nurture them. I understand the theory but if that's the case how did they form a civilization at all? The thresher maws alone would have prevented any structures from standing. If they had found a way around thresher maws destroying what they had built then they could also have kept their children alive. Their history, in regard to physiology, doesn't make sense. There is another possibility, which is that the krogan themselves were killing each other. We know they nuked the planet before they were ever uplifted by the salarians. Still, if their wars were big enough to kill off their children at an alarming rate, how did the buildings survive, even prior to the nuclear war? It would make sense that the mutation occurred as a result of the nuclear war rather than before it. It only takes a relatively few number with this mutation to blossom into it being the standard.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 6, 2019 16:48:27 GMT
Their planet was so deadly that they needed a high birth rate to keep them from going extinct. As for why they care about their young so much it could be that since so few survive they now have to make sure they live and need to nurture them. I understand the theory but if that's the case how did they form a civilization at all? The thresher maws alone would have prevented any structures from standing. If they had found a way around thresher maws destroying what they had built then they could also have kept their children alive. Their history, in regard to physiology, doesn't make sense. There is another possibility, which is that the krogan themselves were killing each other. We know they nuked the planet before they were ever uplifted by the salarians. Still, if their wars were big enough to kill off their children at an alarming rate, how did the buildings survive, even prior to the nuclear war? It would make sense that the mutation occurred as a result of the nuclear war rather than before it. It only takes a relatively few number with this mutation to blossom into it being the standard. For the thresher maws they built on rock. Play ME1 again thresher mass don’t attack outside specific types of ground. As for standing structures vs themselves. Who said they had any for any length of time. Sure a warlord might dominate for a period of time and their territory has structures built. Then that warlord falls and so do many of the structures. And the structures probably only universally fall once they reach a modern era tech point. So in a fifth of their lifespan they might have had the tech to bomb a cities buildings to hell which is time frame they nuked themselves. Which reduced their population and the tech used for war. Given their lifespans were talking like Wrex’s grandad saw a lot of this. If a ton of kids was a new phenomenon you’d think it would be brought up.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 6, 2019 21:57:19 GMT
Their planet was so deadly that they needed a high birth rate to keep them from going extinct. As for why they care about their young so much it could be that since so few survive they now have to make sure they live and need to nurture them. I understand the theory but if that's the case how did they form a civilization at all? The thresher maws alone would have prevented any structures from standing. If they had found a way around thresher maws destroying what they had built then they could also have kept their children alive. Their history, in regard to physiology, doesn't make sense. There is another possibility, which is that the krogan themselves were killing each other. We know they nuked the planet before they were ever uplifted by the salarians. Still, if their wars were big enough to kill off their children at an alarming rate, how did the buildings survive, even prior to the nuclear war? It would make sense that the mutation occurred as a result of the nuclear war rather than before it. It only takes a relatively few number with this mutation to blossom into it being the standard. I believe the codex on tuchanka explain alot about their world and just how difficult it was to survive. Until gunpowder was invented the leading cause of death among krogan was being eaten. The krogan themselves have eyes that are positioned on their head like a deep or cow on earth rather then in the front like a human or a predator. The prey have the eyes facing to the sides so they can look for predators...the krogan have that and most would agree that the krogan are predators. That explains just how brutal their world is.
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Post by brfritos on Apr 6, 2019 23:10:50 GMT
Just throwing my two cents to the krogan evolution... People usually forget the salarians basically doom them. Yes, their evolution was violent, the krogan are prone to violence and so on. But it seems that without salarian intervention and after laying their own planet to waste due to nuclear war, perhaps the krogan would evolve and realize that a thousand births from a single female isn't sustainable. Since they had technology of their own before the salarians made contact, they could've had developed thecnologies to hinder this kind of accelerated birthrate. After all for developing nuclear weapons your society needs at least some form of technological advancement, which also advances medicine.
This kind of technological development changes how a society thinks, so instead of persueing war or avenging their clan for honor, they could have evolve to be more peacefull and less tribal.
Or they would go extinct without salarian's intervention, is another possibility. Of course this is only speculation, but is corroborated by what Javik says, since the Protheans did the same thing to the rachni. And had to put them down the same way. The cycle continues.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 7, 2019 18:46:53 GMT
Just throwing my two cents to the krogan evolution... People usually forget the salarians basically doom them. Yes, their evolution was violent, the krogan are prone to violence and so on. But it seems that without salarian intervention and after laying their own planet to waste due to nuclear war, perhaps the krogan would evolve and realize that a thousand births from a single female isn't sustainable. Since they had technology of their own before the salarians made contact, they could've had developed thecnologies to hinder this kind of accelerated birthrate. After all for developing nuclear weapons your society needs at least some form of technological advancement, which also advances medicine.
This kind of technological development changes how a society thinks, so instead of persueing war or avenging their clan for honor, they could have evolve to be more peacefull and less tribal.
Or they would go extinct without salarian's intervention, is another possibility. Of course this is only speculation, but is corroborated by what Javik says, since the Protheans did the same thing to the rachni. And had to put them down the same way. The cycle continues. You know I just thought of something interesting. Why didn't some of the female krogan go on birth control? I can't imagine them have eggs and constantly being mothers was fun when they had so many.
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Post by brfritos on Apr 8, 2019 14:30:31 GMT
Just throwing my two cents to the krogan evolution... People usually forget the salarians basically doom them. Yes, their evolution was violent, the krogan are prone to violence and so on. But it seems that without salarian intervention and after laying their own planet to waste due to nuclear war, perhaps the krogan would evolve and realize that a thousand births from a single female isn't sustainable. Since they had technology of their own before the salarians made contact, they could've had developed thecnologies to hinder this kind of accelerated birthrate. After all for developing nuclear weapons your society needs at least some form of technological advancement, which also advances medicine.
This kind of technological development changes how a society thinks, so instead of persueing war or avenging their clan for honor, they could have evolve to be more peacefull and less tribal.
Or they would go extinct without salarian's intervention, is another possibility. Of course this is only speculation, but is corroborated by what Javik says, since the Protheans did the same thing to the rachni. And had to put them down the same way. The cycle continues. You know I just thought of something interesting. Why didn't some of the female krogan go on birth control? I can't imagine them have eggs and constantly being mothers was fun when they had so many.
Padok Wiks analogy is actually very accurate when comparing the krogan uplifit as the same as giving nuclear weapons to cave man.
Try to imagine this: pick the nations involved in WWI and teach them to use nuclear weapons.
They deployed chemical weapons in the battlefield for god's sake, I can't even imagine the state of the world today if they had this kind of technology available.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2019 20:19:57 GMT
You know I just thought of something interesting. Why didn't some of the female krogan go on birth control? I can't imagine them have eggs and constantly being mothers was fun when they had so many.
Padok Wiks analogy is actually very accurate when comparing the krogan uplifit as the same as giving nuclear weapons to cave man.
Try to imagine this: pick the nations involved in WWI and teach them to use nuclear weapons.
They deployed chemical weapons in the battlefield for god's sake, I can't even imagine the state of the world today if they had this kind of technology available.
I never had padok wiks in my plathroughs but I know mordin says that in ME2. But still I can't believe that the krogan never thought of birth control when they got off their world and the rachni wars ended. Or that the council species didn't try to advertise it to them. I mean they were no longer threatened and didn't need that insanely high birth rate. I can't imagine that the krogan females would mind not laying a ton of eggs and having to deal with I think it was a hundred new babies every YEAR.
To be fair to your idea of WW1 nations using nukes I would like to point out that while they would have used them they would have likely used them on the battlefield. WW2 was the first war that had the tactic of destroying civilian cities as a tactic like they did. WW2 was the first big war where the amount of civilian casulties was so much higher then the soldiers death rate on all sides. You had people target cities before with sieges and cities were destroyed before but WW2 was the first war where they could do it to that level.
In some city in east germany for example the U.S used firebombs and killed like ninety thousand people and the city had absolutely no military resources or reason to hit it other then to kill civilians and scare the germans into surrendering
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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 9, 2019 1:31:19 GMT
But still I can't believe that the krogan never thought of birth control when they got off their world and the rachni wars ended. Oh I'm sure that some did but then the ones who didn't had lots more children to bulk up their clan numbers and thus had far greater influence in shaping krogan politics. Read "The Mote in God's Eye" sometime. It's a classic science fiction novel that deals with this issue.
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Post by brfritos on Apr 9, 2019 21:07:05 GMT
Padok Wiks analogy is actually very accurate when comparing the krogan uplifit as the same as giving nuclear weapons to cave man.
Try to imagine this: pick the nations involved in WWI and teach them to use nuclear weapons.
They deployed chemical weapons in the battlefield for god's sake, I can't even imagine the state of the world today if they had this kind of technology available.
I never had padok wiks in my plathroughs but I know mordin says that in ME2. But still I can't believe that the krogan never thought of birth control when they got off their world and the rachni wars ended. Or that the council species didn't try to advertise it to them. I mean they were no longer threatened and didn't need that insanely high birth rate. I can't imagine that the krogan females would mind not laying a ton of eggs and having to deal with I think it was a hundred new babies every YEAR.
To be fair to your idea of WW1 nations using nukes I would like to point out that while they would have used them they would have likely used them on the battlefield. WW2 was the first war that had the tactic of destroying civilian cities as a tactic like they did. WW2 was the first big war where the amount of civilian casulties was so much higher then the soldiers death rate on all sides. You had people target cities before with sieges and cities were destroyed before but WW2 was the first war where they could do it to that level.
In some city in east germany for example the U.S used firebombs and killed like ninety thousand people and the city had absolutely no military resources or reason to hit it other then to kill civilians and scare the germans into surrendering
This is totally off topic, but that's not the reasoning behind bombing a civilian population? Forcing a country, region or faction into submition, negotiation or revolt/rebellion of the local population? Or forcing them to finally enter the war? The krogans did this to the turians in the Krogan Rebellions.
US also bombed Japan to the death before dropping nukes in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Tokyo took almost the same death toll than Nagasaki when they used fire bombs.
I don't believe the governments of WWI period would show restrain when using nukes. Just look how they treated their own soldiers or the military doctrine of the time.
There's a great movie about this whole subject called "The Fog of War", about the life of Robert McNamara.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 0:52:19 GMT
I never had padok wiks in my plathroughs but I know mordin says that in ME2. But still I can't believe that the krogan never thought of birth control when they got off their world and the rachni wars ended. Or that the council species didn't try to advertise it to them. I mean they were no longer threatened and didn't need that insanely high birth rate. I can't imagine that the krogan females would mind not laying a ton of eggs and having to deal with I think it was a hundred new babies every YEAR.
To be fair to your idea of WW1 nations using nukes I would like to point out that while they would have used them they would have likely used them on the battlefield. WW2 was the first war that had the tactic of destroying civilian cities as a tactic like they did. WW2 was the first big war where the amount of civilian casulties was so much higher then the soldiers death rate on all sides. You had people target cities before with sieges and cities were destroyed before but WW2 was the first war where they could do it to that level.
In some city in east germany for example the U.S used firebombs and killed like ninety thousand people and the city had absolutely no military resources or reason to hit it other then to kill civilians and scare the germans into surrendering
This is totally off topic, but that's not the reasoning behind bombing a civilian population? Forcing a country, region or faction into submition, negotiation or revolt/rebellion of the local population? Or forcing them to finally enter the war? The krogans did this to the turians in the Krogan Rebellions.
US also bombed Japan to the death before dropping nukes in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Tokyo took almost the same death toll than Nagasaki when they used fire bombs.
I don't believe the governments of WWI period would show restrain when using nukes. Just look how they treated their own soldiers or the military doctrine of the time.
There's a great movie about this whole subject called "The Fog of War", about the life of Robert McNamara.
I was just pointing out that the commanders of WW2 weren't too much better in terms of troop loss's then the WW1 commanders. The big difference was that the western nations would have lost their minds if we had lost a hundred thousand people in a battle like the russians did when they took berlin. I wrote a few paragraphs and erased them a few times since it became a rant. Basically I am a history freak and was just responding to my opinion on how most ww2 commanders would have used a nuke to win the war really quick. The difference between WW1 and WW2 is that the commanders in WW1 were stuck in the old ways of thinking and the modern weapons made those tactics obsolete. Though the russians used horde tactics in WW2. Anyways I wasn't bringing it up to refrence the turians or anyhing.
However since you brought it up the krogans were so horrific because they did stuff that killed a ton of civilians. I think I read in the codex somewhere they dropped an asteroid on a planet (can't remember which species). Personally I think the genophage should have been altered by mordin and his team rather then brought back to their full birth rate. One female having a hundred babies a year is not sustaniable when so many survive. I was saying they should make it one out of fifty survive. It would have been a little more then human birth rates and would have been enough to give the krogan help surviving without giving them back the horde. I didn't like how the genophage was an all or nothing thing. Either completely cure it or let them die.
And by human birth rates I mean most human women can't have more then one kid a year and are unlikely to have a kid EVERY year even during the dark ages. I also never heard anything about krogan woman not having kids after a certain age. So one female before the geophage can have ten thousand kids in a century and even if only half survived.. You just can't sustain that number. So the option to alter the genophage should have been brought up. Because otherwise the krogan are gonna HAVE to start expanding quickly to other worlds because they will over populate so quick. That's why if wrex isn't the big krogan I wouldn't have cured the genophage because despite the fact curing it is morally right in the long run the krogan without wrex would become a problem real quick. I hope wrex keeps the krogan from over populating
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