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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 1:45:13 GMT
Given that the council went in full denial there wasn't much shepard could do to fight the reapers except fight the collectors. In doing so He took away the collectors from the reapers arsenal and stopped a big reaper from being finished. In the end what else can be done but build ships and train more men and shepard couldn't do that by himself since he didn't have the money or influence since everyone had said soverign was a geth ship. It's alot like why Garrus went to omega to be a vigilante. There was nothing he could do fight the reapers. Maybe I am missing something but shepard accomplished alot in ME2 and if you saved the collector base then if it had been used right it would have made a BIG difference but cerberus became stupid.
Maybe someone can explain this to me.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 8, 2019 18:43:44 GMT
It was off point at making the Council disbelieve Shepard, Cerberus allies and the Collectors enemies in the first place.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 8, 2019 19:47:03 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: In the end what else can be done but build ships and train more men and shepard couldn't do that by himself
At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this.
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Post by KrrKs on Mar 8, 2019 20:36:42 GMT
Given that the council went in full denial there wasn't much shepard could do to fight the reapers except fight the collectors. In doing so He took away the collectors from the reapers arsenal and stopped a big small reaper from probably being finished. [...] Maybe I am missing something but shepard accomplished alot in ME2 and if you saved the collector base then if it had been used right it would have made a BIG difference but cerberus became stupid.
Maybe someone can explain this to me.
Ftfy
Also, you are technically correct. Shepard did pretty much what s/he could. The thing is, the game didn't. At the end of ME1 you know the reapers are coming, the galaxy is not prepared and some way of preventing the invasion or enabling the MW races to fight back needs to be found. Then comes ME2, most of the time Shepard does something completely unrelated, and at the end of the game you know that the reapers are coming, the galaxy is still not prepared and some way of preventing the invasion or enabling the MW races to fight back needs to be found.
The collector base is literally the only thing that ME2 could have brought to the table to make it seem like something worthwhile was accomplished. At that was sadly completely dropped in ME3. How cool would it have been if ME3 actually adapted to that collector base decision, though. If the base was saved, Cerberus could have found some gizmo that severely weakens not only reaper-minions but also the reapers themselves. In turn Cerberus becomes indoctrinated and evil-emipire clone like the actual game, a constant thorn in the players side. If the base was destroyed, Cerberus is not indoctrinated and instead an uneasy frenemy, working with and against the Alliance and Council at the same time or at different turns. In turn every encounter with reapers or their ground troops becomes an almost unbeatable nightmare. *Sigh that would have been so cool*
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 21:28:22 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: In the end what else can be done but build ships and train more men and shepard couldn't do that by himself
At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this. Yes but shepard died and with him not screaming "hey dip shits the reapers are coming we need to get ready" they buried it. They have no idea when the reapers would come and it was easier to ignore it and hope it wasn't true. It wasn't right but I think we can all agree politicians do stupid stuff like that all the time. And as I said noone knew when the reapers were coming. It could be tommorow or it could be a hundred years. Think of it like how some scientist believe that eventually there will be a massive earthquake in california that seperates it from the mainland and yet people keep moving there. Or how off the west coast of africa there is an island that has a large chunk of rock ready to fall off that will go across the atlantic ocean and would level everything on the east coast for over a mile. And yet people still move to the east coast.
I am probably overthinking it but I personally thought it wasn't as unrealistic as some people think it was.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 9, 2019 0:31:34 GMT
Because the entire story of ME 2 added nothing to the over all value. The Collector's plan didn't make much sense. The Collectors while retaining advanced tech were not a large enough force to challenge any individual race in the galaxy. The entirety of ME 2 ends on the same note as ME 1 ended. The Reapers are coming and we are not prepared and have no idea how to even start to fight them.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 9, 2019 2:31:37 GMT
A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this. This article has amazing points and justifies its simply stated conclusion perfectly. But I feel that I have to add in one more thing it doesn't eleborate on: the Collectors. They're hiding. And they have amazing technology, which they occasionally share with others. Shepard trying to convince them that the Reapers exist and get them to cooperate with the rest of the galaxy and share their knowledge would make a nice story, even if not filled with action. Instead, they were retconned into another type of Reaper pawns, just as with what happened to Cerberus in ME3. Yes but shepard died and with him not screaming "hey dip shits the reapers are coming we need to get ready" they buried it. They have no idea when the reapers would come and it was easier to ignore it and hope it wasn't true. It wasn't right but I think we can all agree politicians do stupid stuff like that all the time. And as I said noone knew when the reapers were coming. It could be tommorow or it could be a hundred years. Think of it like how some scientist believe that eventually there will be a massive earthquake in california that seperates it from the mainland and yet people keep moving there. Or how off the west coast of africa there is an island that has a large chunk of rock ready to fall off that will go across the atlantic ocean and would level everything on the east coast for over a mile. And yet people still move to the east coast.
I am probably overthinking it but I personally thought it wasn't as unrealistic as some people think it was.
The bolded part wasn't a boundary conditon for ME2 but happened in ME2. Everything that depends on it is ME2 dealing with the problems it created itself.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 10, 2019 22:52:02 GMT
I don't have any problem with the Council going back on their word and pretending the Reapers don't exist. I don't really blame them. Even the existence of Sovereign, which is now just wreckage, doesn't actually prove Shepard's claims about a Reaper armada in dark space. Though certianly it warrants a little more investigation than none at all.
The issue with the Reapers in ME2 though is that the plot doesn't advance at all. ME2 is filler. Defeating the Collectors doesn't teach us anything new or useful about the Reapers. It eliminates a threat, sure, but a threat that wasn't even implied to exist before ME2. We stop the Collectors and we are still in the same place we were at the end of ME1 in so far as the Reapers are concerned. This is a huge problem, and many said so back in the day, because it meant that ME3 would have to not only end the series, but also develop and fill-in all the information we should have gotten in ME2. You could strip ME2 out of the trilogy completely and just go from ME1 to ME3 and you wouldn't really be changing anything or missing anything. Shepard never learned anything about the Reapers in ME2 that would help him stop them so what was the point from a story standpoint?
The most important events in ME2 were Tali and Legion's loyalty missions.
ME2 should have been about explaining how the Reapers are going to return to the galaxy without the Citadel and what that entails. Ideally it should have cost them something, say draining their resources, or putting them in a position where we can take advantage to hurt them when they arrive, giving us an edge. The Reapers were established to be very powerful in ME1 so the next game needed to develop some plausible ways for us to just about even the odds so that come ME3 we don't need to relay on some magical device that will defeat them for us because that is lame and bad story-telling.
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Post by capn233 on Mar 10, 2019 23:38:38 GMT
Funny how the filler game is the best one.
There could have been a few tweaks to the story to try and cut down on some angst. Not that you can eliminate it all because you will always have some that won't be happy if a future title doesn't do exactly what they imagined it would do.
It is fairly believable that the council isn't really going to worry about the Reapers after ME1, and more specifically two years later when the bulk of ME2 is set. They were never really inclined to believe Shepard in ME1.
Why they are not is tied to the same problem you have with sending a spec ops soldier off to investigate the Reapers for another game. The entire Reaper trap hinges on there being nearly no evidence that they exist. Where do you plan to send Shepard in this imaginary game? To find something heretofore undiscovered that he stumbles on based on his Shepard sense? Is he going to fall back on his time as a detective-archeologist-stripper-scientist? Wait, that's Liara. I guess he could haul her around for another game.
Pockets of heretic geth resistance in the beginning of ME2 is logical, and may really have even been the best slim lead Shepard would have had to investigate the Reapers anyway since they were a known link. Nevermind that the Alliance could still request or order him to go and he would.
What follows from that within the story is also fairly logical. I suppose some would have been happier if Shepard could tell TIM to shove it at the beginning, then proceed to the Council and be told they don't believe him. Then they could spend the rest of the game trying to fly around the galaxy with no support, no ship, no crew and no money.
I agree that ME1 built the Reapers up to be basically unbeatable. Which is the real reason there was always going to have to be some magical device. That is of course assuming the end was going to be our victory rather than Reaper victory. You would not find a plausible way to beat them in any imaginary ME2 game that doesn't seriously retcon the strength of the Reapers.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 11, 2019 4:22:14 GMT
The Council not believing Shepard would make sense if they never believed them in the first place. But they do at the end of ME1 and acknowledge that the Reapers exist and a way to stop them has to be found. They don't keep disbelieving Shepard in ME2 but they change their minds, suddenly or not, and start not believing them. Note that I'm not talking about that disinformation campaign of theirs but about what they believed or not personally. You know, you can say many bad things about the ME1 Council, but not that they weren't smart or couldn't acknowledge their mistakes. They played with Shepard, Udina and Anderson like with toys for the entire game except one moment and had Saren's revocation voted out before being presented with evidence. Did you never find it weird that Saren is suddenly not on the line during that meeting?
Reapers are of course beatable, with their own tech. That's why Sovereign was took down only after a couple fleets concentrated their fire on him while he got some shield malfunction but only 4 well coordinated dreadnoughts are needed for a similar Reaper if equipped with Thanix cannons. More of this can lie anywhere: Leviathan of Dis, the Mnemosyne Reaper, all the knowledge the Protheans accumulated but it was't destroyed or hidden by the matriarch mafia. This may or may not be considered space magic, but is still more believable than the Crucible. Making which work of course required some search, but ME2 had no place for it and Liara had to do this in a comic, fucking fighting Cerberus on Kahje instead of meeting some serious enemies like geth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 14:55:08 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: In the end what else can be done but build ships and train more men and shepard couldn't do that by himself
At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this. The reason they are hunting geth at the beginning of ME2 is logical, since the fall of Sovereign (their god) who they believed would facilitate the return of the Reapers (their other gods) would leave the geth trying to find a way themselves to facilitate the return of the Reapers. IMO, where ME2 leaves the rails is as follows: ME2 could have easily continued with the geth being the principle antagonists... having TIM basically replace Saren with the same basic motivations as Saren... a belief that he would be positioning humanity to survive the next harvest by cooperating with the Reapers and positioning himself to become the ultimate leader of a human-dominated galaxy... making humanity more like how the Protheans were depicted and continuing with the question as to how this new upstart race will fit into the galactic government. As it is, the Protheans being turned into Collectors is basically a dropped theme anyways. ME3 could have done more to bring elements of both ME1 and ME2 together and moved them forward into the ending by bringing the Collectors and their hidden technologies to the forefront in the last game... instead of just leap-frogging back over the Collectors and making the Protheans the alleged originators of the Crucible. At the very least, the Catalyst could have been something the Collectors worked out secretly after they were enslaved by the Reapers.
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Post by ergates on Mar 11, 2019 15:23:26 GMT
The Council backsliding on the Reaper threat and burying their heads in the sand has plenty real life analogs. See climate change for probably the most current real world example, but there are plenty more. They're politicians and bureaucrats, and like many of their ilk they tend to focus on the short term, seeing only as far as the next fiscal budget. If anything, the ME2 events concerning the Council suffer from too much realism rather than not enough.
Yes the over reaching story is a bit of a side track, but (in my opinion at least) it's still an absolutely first class game with some of the most memorable characters, and terrific encounters in any video game I've played.
The question is - would the game be significantly improved if the Collector skins were switched to Reaper ground troop skins, and the plot adjusted focus on Reapers attacking human settlements as a prelude to full scale invasion, rather than Collectors attacking human settlements?
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 11, 2019 15:48:12 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this. The reason they are hunting geth at the beginning of ME2 is logical, since the fall of Sovereign (their god) who they believed would facilitate the return of the Reapers (their other gods) would leave the geth trying to find a way themselves to facilitate the return of the Reapers. IMO, where ME2 leaves the rails is as follows: ME2 could have easily continued with the geth being the principle antagonists... having TIM basically replace Saren with the same basic motivations as Saren... a belief that he would be positioning humanity to survive the next harvest by cooperating with the Reapers and positioning himself to become the ultimate leader of a human-dominated galaxy... making humanity more like how the Protheans were depicted and continuing with the question as to how this new upstart race will fit into the galactic government. As it is, the Protheans being turned into Collectors is basically a dropped theme anyways. ME3 could have done more to bring elements of both ME1 and ME2 together and moved them forward into the ending by bringing the Collectors and their hidden technologies to the forefront in the last game... instead of just leap-frogging back over the Collectors and making the Protheans the alleged originators of the Crucible. At the very least, the Catalyst could have been something the Collectors worked out secretly after they were enslaved by the Reapers.
Yea, it's not so much that there is one thing that is blatantly illogical in the beginning of ME2 (well, there are a few smaller issues but nothing that really matters). It's more like a hundred little things that need rather convoluted explanations to line up properly (which are not really given by the game itself), combined with the very sudden change of a lot of the parameters of the story and the massive change in the overall tone. All that at the same time creates (IMO) a very rough disconnect between ME2 and ME1, which the series never really fully recovers from.
The article I linked is actually just one tiny part of a massive series, written by this guy. While I do not necessarily agree with everything he says, I do fully agree with the part I linked as well as the two that follow (which also deal with the ME1->ME2 transition). To me, it's really nice and thorough explanation of why the shift between ME1 and ME2 kinda broke the back of the trilogy. I think it's mainly due to the writers exceptional skill at writing memorable character interactions that the ME trilogy remains my favorite video game series.
And while I do agree that ME3 could have involved the collectors in some way, shape or form (or ME2 in general), I think the writers actually did a pretty good job in ME3 to wrap up a lot of plot points that were still dangeling (nad left dangling unnecessarily) by mE2, bringing the whole thing somewhat back together again. I know people like to bash on ME3 a lot but to me - apart from very specific issues I have (yes, with the ending) - the writers of ME3 did a hell of a job, given the situation they were in after ME2 and the Arrival DLC.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:27:45 GMT
The reason they are hunting geth at the beginning of ME2 is logical, since the fall of Sovereign (their god) who they believed would facilitate the return of the Reapers (their other gods) would leave the geth trying to find a way themselves to facilitate the return of the Reapers. IMO, where ME2 leaves the rails is as follows: ME2 could have easily continued with the geth being the principle antagonists... having TIM basically replace Saren with the same basic motivations as Saren... a belief that he would be positioning humanity to survive the next harvest by cooperating with the Reapers and positioning himself to become the ultimate leader of a human-dominated galaxy... making humanity more like how the Protheans were depicted and continuing with the question as to how this new upstart race will fit into the galactic government. As it is, the Protheans being turned into Collectors is basically a dropped theme anyways. ME3 could have done more to bring elements of both ME1 and ME2 together and moved them forward into the ending by bringing the Collectors and their hidden technologies to the forefront in the last game... instead of just leap-frogging back over the Collectors and making the Protheans the alleged originators of the Crucible. At the very least, the Catalyst could have been something the Collectors worked out secretly after they were enslaved by the Reapers.
Yea, it's not so much that there is one thing that is blatantly illogical in the beginning of ME2 (well, there are a few smaller issues but nothing that really matters). It's more like a hundred little things that need rather convoluted explanations to line up properly (which are not really given by the game itself), combined with the very sudden change of a lot of the parameters of the story and the massive change in the overall tone. All that at the same time creates (IMO) a very rough disconnect between ME2 and ME1, which the series never really fully recovers from.
The article I linked is actually just one tiny part of a massive series, written by this guy. While I do not necessarily agree with everything he says, I do fully agree with the part I linked as well as the two that follow (which also deal with the ME1->ME2 transition). To me, it's really nice and thorough explanation of why the shift between ME1 and ME2 kinda broke the back of the trilogy. I think it's mainly due to the writers exceptional skill at writing memorable character interactions that the ME trilogy remains my favorite video game series.
And while I do agree that ME3 could have involved the collectors in some way, shape or form (or ME2 in general), I think the writers actually did a pretty good job in ME3 to wrap up a lot of plot points that were still dangeling (nad left dangling unnecessarily) by mE2, bringing the whole thing somewhat back together again. I know people like to bash on ME3 a lot but to me - apart from very specific issues I have (yes, with the ending) - the writers of ME3 did a hell of a job, given the situation they were in after ME2 and the Arrival DLC.
... like Shepard dying and being resurrected by Cerberus.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 11, 2019 16:38:33 GMT
Yea, it's not so much that there is one thing that is blatantly illogical in the beginning of ME2 (well, there are a few smaller issues but nothing that really matters).
... like Shepard dying and being resurrected by Cerberus. Yea, like that one. It's funny because I do consider this a minor issue that doesn't really matter that much. After all, it hardly has any real consequences for the plot or the character (which is actually aprt of why it was such a facepalm decision to write it like that in the first place ).
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 11, 2019 19:44:26 GMT
... like Shepard dying and being resurrected by Cerberus. Yea, like that one. It's funny because I do consider this a minor issue that doesn't really matter that much. After all, it hardly has any real consequences for the plot or the character (which is actually aprt of why it was such a facepalm decision to write it like that in the first place ). I believe it was supposed to make the player loyal to Cerberus and also serves as an excuse to change Shepard's class.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 12, 2019 3:54:19 GMT
Funny how the filler game is the best one. Well that depends on how you judge it. In terms of advancing the story of the trilogy it is the worst game because it does nothing productive. That doesn't mean it doesn't have great sub-plots or characters or combat or graphics. I would argue that in terms of accessibility that ME2 is indeed the best because it has the most broad appeal while not abandoning the principals that ME1 was founded on.
I wish ME2 had been a proper sequel with better writing. I prefer ME1 for that reason.
Yea, like that one. It's funny because I do consider this a minor issue that doesn't really matter that much. After all, it hardly has any real consequences for the plot or the character (which is actually aprt of why it was such a facepalm decision to write it like that in the first place ). I believe it was supposed to make the player loyal to Cerberus and also serves as an excuse to change Shepard's class. I've always found that a silly idea. Why can't Shepard just update his profile information again? Let the player change classes if they want. It isn't as if it matters because Shepard's class is never brought up and making Shepard a biotic only entailed changing one piece of dialog in ME1. I can't recall if ME2 mentions Shepard being biotic if you have a biotic class at all.
As for Cerberus... I don't think the player or Shepard were ever pressured to feel Cerberus they owed anything for bringing him back. I mean if that was the idea then surely the dialog would tap into this a bit more. If anything the player is encouraged to side with Cerberus, at least to some extent, because Cerberus is will to help with the Collectors while everyone else is useless. Even so, the game encourages you to go against them as much as it wants you to sympathize with them.
The Council not believing Shepard would make sense if they never believed them in the first place. But they do at the end of ME1 and acknowledge that the Reapers exist and a way to stop them has to be found. They don't keep disbelieving Shepard in ME2 but they change their minds, suddenly or not, and start not believing them. Again, Sovereign is not proof of some Reaper armada in dark space. You aren't thinking about this in the most basic, logical terms. What actual EVIDENCE do you have other than statements that the Reaper fleet exists? Sovereign is a relic. It might be the only one. Now there is an important piece of evidence that you do have; Sovereign was able to give Saren access to the Citadel itself and Sovereign was intent on docking to the station. Why? What did it want to do? If the sequel had been written better the aftermath of the geth attack would have been examined from this angle. If I were Shepard this is how I'd put it to the Council, "Look, Sovereign was trying to manipulate the Citadel in some fashion. How? Why? If we can determine that the Citadel really IS a mass relay then we'll have some way of verifying the Prothean Vision and statements by Saren, VIGIL, and Sovereign itself." You'd THINK that the Council would now want to understand, and to control, their own base of operations. Surely they'd no longer be willing to just entrust the Keepers do it.
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 12, 2019 7:17:22 GMT
I believe it was supposed to make the player loyal to Cerberus and also serves as an excuse to change Shepard's class. I've always found that a silly idea. Why can't Shepard just update his profile information again? Let the player change classes if they want. It isn't as if it matters because Shepard's class is never brought up and making Shepard a biotic only entailed changing one piece of dialog in ME1. I can't recall if ME2 mentions Shepard being biotic if you have a biotic class at all.
I can imagine someone deciding to do this just not to change that one line. That ME2 stopped caring about consistency regarding biotics in general is another thing, this is just Shepard's case someone could want to keep "consistent" at least. Pretty sure Miranda demands recognition for her partake in it, whatever she was actually doing. TIM says something like "I brought you back, it's up to you to do the rest", implying that Shepard working for them belongs to the order of things. Each time you can actively go against Cerberus, an option of helping them is on the same action wheel. But it doesn't work the other way around and you're pressed to consider them the better guys in many cases, as you mentioned. Doesn't matter. They already believe Shepard at the end of ME1. If they need a reason for something, it's to change their minds, to which they have none.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 12, 2019 14:57:50 GMT
Yes but shepard died and with him not screaming "hey dip shits the reapers are coming we need to get ready" they buried it. They have no idea when the reapers would come and it was easier to ignore it and hope it wasn't true. That's like saying "I know there's a tsunami on the way, but maybe it'll pass by. And it hasn't hit anyway so no need to worry." The Council are idiots no matter how you look at it. I can't see how they can be trusted to run the galaxy. It's one reason why choosing Anderson is best because he's the only person who ever believes Shepard.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 12, 2019 23:13:11 GMT
Yes but shepard died and with him not screaming "hey dip shits the reapers are coming we need to get ready" they buried it. They have no idea when the reapers would come and it was easier to ignore it and hope it wasn't true. That's like saying "I know there's a tsunami on the way, but maybe it'll pass by. And it hasn't hit anyway so no need to worry." The Council are idiots no matter how you look at it. I can't see how they can be trusted to run the galaxy. It's one reason why choosing Anderson is best because he's the only person who ever believes Shepard. I think your agreeing with me. However there are alot of real life comparisons. Obviously climate change is the big one since we are LITERALLY facing extinction and yet few politicians are doing anything. It could simply be because it took an entire fleet to take down soverign and the alliance lost eight ships I think. And most of that time soverign wasn't even fighting back. It would likely seem hopeless and since their is no way to know when the reapers were actually gonna be here then pretending that it was either all geth doing it or they stopped the reapers from coming by killing soverign and stopping him from doing what he was doing is a comfortable solution. Although I really wanted to kill that turian councilor when he did those fucking air quotes and condensending voice when he talks to shepard in ME2.
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Post by vit246 on Mar 13, 2019 3:28:44 GMT
The Council didn't have to actually be in denial about the Reapers. They still could have, and should have, seen Sovereign's attack as at least a actively hostile Geth attack, and used it as a pretext for an arms race. The Geth threat is now aggressively real, even if the Reapers may not be, and if the Reapers turn out to be real after all than at least they built up weapons for them. And an arms race could've lead to tensions and conflicts both within the Citadel nations and with the Terminus Systems, which could've been the storyline for Shepard to do instead of the superfluous Collectors.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 13, 2019 5:47:31 GMT
Thing is, the Council actually did know the Reapers were real. That's clear from the Citadel Archives. They were literally burying their heads in the sand in the hopes that it doesn't happen on their watch - like maybe 1000 years away when all four of them would be dead.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 13, 2019 5:51:13 GMT
To be honest, I don’t buy them not doing anything. After all Shepard was with Cerberus, a terrorist organization that is against alien races. Why should they tell Shepard anything? Even Anderson kept secrets from us during that time. Also if the races didn’t do anything, that’s more on the race leadership than the Council since they are just representatives who aren’t in the know about everything.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 13, 2019 11:43:09 GMT
ME2 proves quite nicely that you don't need galactic holocaust threats to tell OK stories and make good games.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 13, 2019 11:51:21 GMT
That's like saying "I know there's a tsunami on the way, but maybe it'll pass by. And it hasn't hit anyway so no need to worry." The Council are idiots no matter how you look at it. I can't see how they can be trusted to run the galaxy. I would include the characters in ME1. What did they do after the SR1 was destroyed? They turned into ****roaches scattering all over the galaxy. It's too bad Shepard couldn't ask them what they were doing for 2 years while he/she was dead? I'm sure all would be suffering from cat-got-your-tongue syndrome. Believing and doing something are two different things. Why didn't he have Joker use a shuttle with the ME1 squadmates to search for a way to stop the reapers? Or ask T'soni to checkout the Mars archives? I'll tell you why. Because he told Shepard it's up to him/her to find a way to stop the reapers. So his excuse is that he never cared. He's also the one who brought up the visions when facing the council expecting them to believe that. Then look at the beginning of ME3. He asks Shepard to help them find a way to stop the reapers. Too bad there wasn't a interrupt to smack him upside the head. I would guess the reason or one of the reasons why Shepard wouldn't have too much of a problem working with Cerberus is because the Alliance and the so-called friends from ME1 didn't do anything for two years. That's fine, but then in ME3 they're put front and center expecting everything to be ok. I have to remember ME3 was made for the new player. It is the best place to start playing a trilogy.
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