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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 3:29:29 GMT
So Ashley/Kaidan despite all their posturing and possibly being so "in love" with Shepard were the quickest to throw him/her under the bus to advance their own careers. I actually agree with you. Joker wouldn't do that, so he/she was dismissed by the Alliance, was the "company line" they were going with in ME2. Therefore, there should have been an option for Shepard to shoot Ashley/Kaidan on Horizon. I never did understand how they walked out unharmed after we saw them immobilized very early on in the attack and there were right next to poor Sam and Lilith when they were immobilizaed. They should have been packed away in a pod on board the ship long before Shepard took down the Praetorian.
Why should we want to shoot them, except for being butthurt at Shepard's enforced Cerberus connection?
For "throwing Shepard under the bus" in order to stay in the Alliance... and for being totally incompetent in their job (i.e. unable to get the planetary defense canon working when Shepard and EDI did it in a few minutes while under fire from the Collectors).
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melbella
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Post by melbella on Sept 14, 2019 3:46:40 GMT
for being totally incompetent in their job (i.e. unable to get the planetary defense canon working Since neither Kaidan nor Ashley are engineers, I'm not sure why they would be expected to have expertise on defense tower operation and/or troubleshooting. It's not like that's why they were really there anyway. EDI got the cannons working again, plain and simple. Shepard and team only kept the Collectors from getting in her way. Nor would I say either VS threw Shepard under the bus so much as kept their mouths shut, something we know Joker, Jacob, Ken, and Gabby did NOT do. Nothing that isn't nonsense can explain Ashley's meteoric rise in rank though. As for why Chakwas 'joined' Cerberus, according to the video files we see at Cronos, TIM specifically recruited her, probably telling her about Shepard at some point in order to get her on board. She would have no reason to leave her post-Normandy position otherwise.
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Post by midnightwolf on Sept 15, 2019 8:48:43 GMT
Shoot A/K on Horizon? I would be ok with that if my Shepard can shoot t'soni for having Shepard's armor on display like it's some kind of prize. Shoot her for having Shepard's dna plastered throughout her apartment. Shoot her for not making any effort to inform anyone that Shepard's body is in the hands of Cerberus. How about shooting Moreau for not leaving the bridge when the evacuation order was given leading to Shepard dying. How about shooting the clown calling himself Anderson? He did say it was up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. He never cared. To heck with it. Just shoot everyone. I love this. And agree Mike <img alt="  " src="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/bYmUqWGYNIhNE0GJanhP.png" text=" ">
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 11:09:31 GMT
for being totally incompetent in their job (i.e. unable to get the planetary defense canon working Since neither Kaidan nor Ashley are engineers, I'm not sure why they would be expected to have expertise on defense tower operation and/or troubleshooting. It's not like that's why they were really there anyway. EDI got the cannons working again, plain and simple. Shepard and team only kept the Collectors from getting in her way. Nor would I say either VS threw Shepard under the bus so much as kept their mouths shut, something we know Joker, Jacob, Ken, and Gabby did NOT do. Nothing that isn't nonsense can explain Ashley's meteoric rise in rank though. As for why Chakwas 'joined' Cerberus, according to the video files we see at Cronos, TIM specifically recruited her, probably telling her about Shepard at some point in order to get her on board. She would have no reason to leave her post-Normandy position otherwise. If the Alliance wanted to spy on Shepard and Cerberus, why didn't they order Ashley or Kaidan to go undercover as one of Shepard's squadmates? If the player goes to see Anderson, Anderson knows that Shepard is shopping around for a squad and could have just told Shepard where Ashley/Kaidan was and then called up A/K on the comms and told them to accept Shepard's offer.
If they were there because they were at all concerned about the colonies being abducted, then the Alliance should have ensured they installed defenses that worked and should have sent the staff the could actually make them work right instead of Ashley/Kaidan.
The entire situation as presented in the game makes no sense at all.
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Post by melbella on Sept 15, 2019 16:00:45 GMT
The entire situation as presented in the game makes no sense at all. Definitely. But no one ever said the Alliance, or the Council, was all that smart. |
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 15, 2019 21:02:16 GMT
The entire situation as presented in the game makes no sense at all. Definitely. But no one ever said the Alliance, or the Council, was all that smart.
Cerberus had Miranda infiltrate their wardrobes and plant a few idiot balls. 
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Post by Polka Dot on Sept 23, 2019 3:38:41 GMT
I actually considered that the most legit reason out of all the people showing up. Don’t take a birds wings. I actually never understood why the Alliance would ground Joker after the destruction of the SR1. I mean, sure the cutscene is quite stupid in the sense that Joker kinda flies into the collector ship beam but I doubt BW really wanted to imply that loosing the ship was Joker's fault.
I mean, Ash/Kaidan got sent back on missions (and even got a promotion). Why exactly did they not let Joker fly on another ship? He was supposed to be THE best pilot of the whole dam space-navy and apparently he did a hell of a job back during the battle of the Citadel, even firing the shot that finally destroyed Sovereign. Doesn't quite make sense to me to waste such an asset. And even if they grounded him for some reason or another, why go to a terrorist organization? Why not go private sector or something? It's like he read ahead in the script and new they'd be teamed up with Shepard again eventually or something. Yet, when you meet him for the first time in ME2, he outright says he didn't expect to see you.
Same goes for Chakwas by the way. In ME1, she was a military physician to the bone. She even talks about how working with soldiers is something she wouldn't want to give up. But then, she joins a bunch of highly unethical terrorists who routinely torture and slaughter people. Both of them had first hand experience with Cerberus' methods in ME1. Both of them are highly skilled, highly decorated officers in the Alliance. The fact that a) the Alliance would just sideline them and  they'd just join Cerberus on a whim is absurd. ME2 would already have been better if it had been up to Shepard to recruit the both of them somehow after s/he woke up.
Those are also great examples of the character assassination to which I referred upthread. A lot of people and organizations were greatly diminished in order to setup the premise of that game. Although there is a lot to like in ME2, my distaste for working w/ Cerberus - combined with my disappointment in some characters and organizations - makes it really hard for me to enjoy playing it.
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Post by x19dude95 on Sept 30, 2019 12:08:39 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: In the end what else can be done but build ships and train more men and shepard couldn't do that by himself
At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this.  He's off fighting Geth because that's what the alliance wanted him to do. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 30, 2019 15:52:31 GMT
What burningcherry said. To elaborate a little: At the end of ME1, Shepard specifically mentions what s/he plans to do in ME2. "Find a way to stop them!" Then, at the beginning of ME2, they are hunting Geth for some reason and the authors chose to reset everything from there. Because ME2 went off on the Collector/Cerberus tangent then, a LOT of things had to be crammed into ME3 without any foreshadowing even happening. If there had been time to develop actual plot points like the crucible properly, maybe it wouldn't have felt quite as ridiculous as it did. A very nice article summarising how badly ME1's potential was squandered in ME2 can be found here by the way. Even after all these years, I still cry one single tear every time I read this. He's off fighting Geth because that's what the alliance wanted him to do. But that is precisely what doesn't make sense.
First off, as a Spectre, Shepard is under the council's command, not the Alliance's.
But even if we concede that s/he may still take orders from (or do favors for) the Alliance, it doesn't make sense for the Alliance to order Shepard to just fly off and fight geth holdouts because: a) As we hear from Jacob, read in Ascension and as becomes evident throughout ME2/3, Shepard's role in the Battle of the Citadel is a big deal publicly and in the media. He is considered the hero of this battle and a poster boy/girl that the Alliance even literally uses on recruiting posters. In short, Shepard is a celebrity. You don't send a media asset like this out into the middle of nowhere (and that's exactly where they were, they were in the middle of the Terminus) to look for some leftover geth. b ) Shepard's stated goal at the end of ME1 is to look for more information on the reapers. Meanwhile, the massive gain in the Alliance's political power within the council structure (especially in the case of a renegade ME1 ending but also in the paragon one) is based on the revelation about the reapers and the council's fear of them.Udina even says this outright after the battle: "They want humanity to step forward". It is in the best political interest of the Alliance to investigate the reapers further and to keep the idea of that looming threat alive. That's exactly what Shepard wants to do and his/her ship and crew are exceptionally qualified to do it. Shepard has the cypher, Liara is prothean/history expert, the Normandy is a ship that can access territory even in areas where it would otherwise be dangerous or politically inconvenient for the council to go, all of them have the most accumulated first hand knowledge of the reapers. Instead, the Alliance seems to decide to bury all the information that gives them leverage with the other races and send Shepard and the Normandy to some backwater system to investigate rumors of left over geth. WTF?
Shepard should be investigating the ruins on Ilos further or other prothean ruins that might give hints. Maybe they should be involved in dealing with Sovereign's wreckage winch would have the advantage that they'd be around the Citadel to partake in media events and such. They could do any number of things, but certainly not flying out to the Amada System in the Omega Nebula.
And yes, there is a way to head canon this in a way, such that Shepard/the Alliance/the council theorizes that because the geth had a link to Sovereign, maybe by fighting them and potentially recovering data on the geth somehow (although we know from Tali that this is almost impossible), they could also find more information on the reapers. That would make sense, except that it flies in the face of the opening text of ME2, which specifically states that this is not the case. Still, me personally, I just ignore the text (it's goes away too fast to read properly anyway ) and head-canon it that way.
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Post by x19dude95 on Oct 14, 2019 12:49:02 GMT
He's off fighting Geth because that's what the alliance wanted him to do. But that is precisely what doesn't make sense.
First off, as a Spectre, Shepard is under the council's command, not the Alliance's.
But even if we concede that s/he may still take orders from (or do favors for) the Alliance, it doesn't make sense for the Alliance to order Shepard to just fly off and fight geth holdouts because: a) As we hear from Jacob, read in Ascension and as becomes evident throughout ME2/3, Shepard's role in the Battle of the Citadel is a big deal publicly and in the media. He is considered the hero of this battle and a poster boy/girl that the Alliance even literally uses on recruiting posters. In short, Shepard is a celebrity. You don't send a media asset like this out into the middle of nowhere (and that's exactly where they were, they were in the middle of the Terminus) to look for some leftover geth. b ) Shepard's stated goal at the end of ME1 is to look for more information on the reapers. Meanwhile, the massive gain in the Alliance's political power within the council structure (especially in the case of a renegade ME1 ending but also in the paragon one) is based on the revelation about the reapers and the council's fear of them.Udina even says this outright after the battle: "They want humanity to step forward". It is in the best political interest of the Alliance to investigate the reapers further and to keep the idea of that looming threat alive. That's exactly what Shepard wants to do and his/her ship and crew are exceptionally qualified to do it. Shepard has the cypher, Liara is prothean/history expert, the Normandy is a ship that can access territory even in areas where it would otherwise be dangerous or politically inconvenient for the council to go, all of them have the most accumulated first hand knowledge of the reapers. Instead, the Alliance seems to decide to bury all the information that gives them leverage with the other races and send Shepard and the Normandy to some backwater system to investigate rumors of left over geth. WTF?
Shepard should be investigating the ruins on Ilos further or other prothean ruins that might give hints. Maybe they should be involved in dealing with Sovereign's wreckage winch would have the advantage that they'd be around the Citadel to partake in media events and such. They could do any number of things, but certainly not flying out to the Amada System in the Omega Nebula.
And yes, there is a way to head canon this in a way, such that Shepard/the Alliance/the council theorizes that because the geth had a link to Sovereign, maybe by fighting them and potentially recovering data on the geth somehow (although we know from Tali that this is almost impossible), they could also find more information on the reapers. That would make sense, except that it flies in the face of the opening text of ME2, which specifically states that this is not the case. Still, me personally, I just ignore the text (it's goes away too fast to read properly anyway ) and head-canon it that way. Well Shepard is a Soldier, Not a archaeologist. And we learned that the council pretty much said Reapers is and are fake news so nobody would go crazy. |
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Post by melbella on Oct 14, 2019 19:12:59 GMT
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Post by x19dude95 on Oct 26, 2019 20:05:47 GMT
But that is precisely what doesn't make sense.
First off, as a Spectre, Shepard is under the council's command, not the Alliance's.
But even if we concede that s/he may still take orders from (or do favors for) the Alliance, it doesn't make sense for the Alliance to order Shepard to just fly off and fight geth holdouts because: a) As we hear from Jacob, read in Ascension and as becomes evident throughout ME2/3, Shepard's role in the Battle of the Citadel is a big deal publicly and in the media. He is considered the hero of this battle and a poster boy/girl that the Alliance even literally uses on recruiting posters. In short, Shepard is a celebrity. You don't send a media asset like this out into the middle of nowhere (and that's exactly where they were, they were in the middle of the Terminus) to look for some leftover geth. b ) Shepard's stated goal at the end of ME1 is to look for more information on the reapers. Meanwhile, the massive gain in the Alliance's political power within the council structure (especially in the case of a renegade ME1 ending but also in the paragon one) is based on the revelation about the reapers and the council's fear of them.Udina even says this outright after the battle: "They want humanity to step forward". It is in the best political interest of the Alliance to investigate the reapers further and to keep the idea of that looming threat alive. That's exactly what Shepard wants to do and his/her ship and crew are exceptionally qualified to do it. Shepard has the cypher, Liara is prothean/history expert, the Normandy is a ship that can access territory even in areas where it would otherwise be dangerous or politically inconvenient for the council to go, all of them have the most accumulated first hand knowledge of the reapers. Instead, the Alliance seems to decide to bury all the information that gives them leverage with the other races and send Shepard and the Normandy to some backwater system to investigate rumors of left over geth. WTF?
Shepard should be investigating the ruins on Ilos further or other prothean ruins that might give hints. Maybe they should be involved in dealing with Sovereign's wreckage winch would have the advantage that they'd be around the Citadel to partake in media events and such. They could do any number of things, but certainly not flying out to the Amada System in the Omega Nebula.
And yes, there is a way to head canon this in a way, such that Shepard/the Alliance/the council theorizes that because the geth had a link to Sovereign, maybe by fighting them and potentially recovering data on the geth somehow (although we know from Tali that this is almost impossible), they could also find more information on the reapers. That would make sense, except that it flies in the face of the opening text of ME2, which specifically states that this is not the case. Still, me personally, I just ignore the text (it's goes away too fast to read properly anyway ) and head-canon it that way. Well Shepard is a Soldier, Not a archaeologist. And we learned that the council pretty much said Reapers is are fake news so nobody would go crazy. |
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Post by sassafrassa on Nov 16, 2019 20:31:37 GMT
Shepard should be investigating the ruins on Ilos further or other prothean ruins that might give hints. Or maybe the actual hotshot archaeologist on Shepard's team should be doing that? What was her name? Oh, Liara. The asari. Yeah, I think she should have been doing that after ME1 rather than a becoming a badass merc/secret-agent/shadowbroker-lite and obsessing over a guy/girl she knew for a few months. The fate of the galaxy is at stake. On the topic of the Reapers and the Council position I am not un-sympathetic to the Council view. In truth Shepard actually provides no real evidence of the existence of Reaper fleet. No direct evidence. He does have evidence that demonstrates that Sovereign is not a geth ship, though. A logical approach to the Sovereign question should have been to ask; what did it want with the Citadel? How was it able to control the Citadel? Or perhaps, how was Saren able to control the Citadel? As well you might ask, "Why did the Protheans build the conduit? Why did they leave around beacons pointing to it? Does the age of the conduit line up with the age of the Mass Relays? Is there anyway we can determine their age? Proving that the Conduit is much younger than the Mass Relays would go a long way toward debunking the theory that the Protheans constructed the Mass Relays since it should be easily apparent that the Conduit is an inferior Mass Relay, clearing designed from Mass Relay components and construction; IE: an attempt at copying one. Even if VIGIL is dead is it possible to analyze the program it gave to Shepard? That should be a window into analyzing the internal programming of the Citadel itself which ought to point toward it being a giant Mass Relay. If I were the Council my priorities would be this: 1.) Eliminate the threat of the geth once and for all 2.) Find out why the Conduit was built and when 3.) Find out what Sovereign was trying to do with the Citadel 4.) Figure out how the Citadel works, keepers be damned 5.) Find out where Sovereign came from, who built it, and when At no point do I need to assume that there is a Reaper fleet out there. I don't even have proof of what a Reaper is; just some audio/video recordings of speeches which aren't actual physical evidence. I'd use the war with the geth to distract the public while I launch investigations of these matters behind the scenes.
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they'd just join Cerberus on a whim is absurd.
