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Post by sassafrassa on Apr 10, 2019 2:23:18 GMT
As I recall, turians don't discriminate between military and civilian targets and it is stated their war-time tactics are very ruthless and destructive as they aim to ensure that the first war fought with any opponent is the last one.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 10, 2019 20:12:25 GMT
As I recall, turians don't discriminate between military and civilian targets and it is stated their war-time tactics are very ruthless and destructive as they aim to ensure that the first war fought with any opponent is the last one. Yeah the turians don't mess around. However they didn't drop asteroids and while I often defend the krogan they did stuff just for the violence in many cases where as the turians are ruthless to a point and once they believed they proved their point or the enemy surrenders they stop.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 10, 2019 20:32:16 GMT
Just throwing my two cents to the krogan evolution... People usually forget the salarians basically doom them. Yes, their evolution was violent, the krogan are prone to violence and so on. But it seems that without salarian intervention and after laying their own planet to waste due to nuclear war, perhaps the krogan would evolve and realize that a thousand births from a single female isn't sustainable. Since they had technology of their own before the salarians made contact, they could've had developed thecnologies to hinder this kind of accelerated birthrate. After all for developing nuclear weapons your society needs at least some form of technological advancement, which also advances medicine.
This kind of technological development changes how a society thinks, so instead of persueing war or avenging their clan for honor, they could have evolve to be more peacefull and less tribal.
Or they would go extinct without salarian's intervention, is another possibility. Of course this is only speculation, but is corroborated by what Javik says, since the Protheans did the same thing to the rachni. And had to put them down the same way. The cycle continues. You know I just thought of something interesting. Why didn't some of the female krogan go on birth control? I can't imagine them have eggs and constantly being mothers was fun when they had so many. It’s not a stretch that a war focused culture with absurd birth rates would celebrate their absurd birth rates and avoid birth control. |
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 11, 2019 0:02:43 GMT
You know I just thought of something interesting. Why didn't some of the female krogan go on birth control? I can't imagine them have eggs and constantly being mothers was fun when they had so many. It’s not a stretch that a war focused culture with absurd birth rates would celebrate their absurd birth rates and avoid birth control. In the beggining yeah. But once they started enjoying the modern society they had come in to I think the female krogan would like the idea of not having a hundred babies a year EVERY YEAR for their entire lives since I have not heard anything about female krogan only being fertile for a certain amount of time
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Post by ahglock on Apr 11, 2019 1:55:09 GMT
It’s not a stretch that a war focused culture with absurd birth rates would celebrate their absurd birth rates and avoid birth control. In the beggining yeah. But once they started enjoying the modern society they had come in to I think the female krogan would like the idea of not having a hundred babies a year EVERY YEAR for their entire lives since I have not heard anything about female krogan only being fertile for a certain amount of time But when did they stop being warlike. Even with modern conveniences they were warlike. Look at their coming of age ceremonies it’s all about killing. With their birthrate, need for planets, lifespan the gap between the end of rachni war to rebellions was a long weekend. Their culture never had a chance to change. |
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Post by brfritos on Apr 11, 2019 10:29:38 GMT
I was just pointing out that the commanders of WW2 weren't too much better in terms of troop loss's then the WW1 commanders. The big difference was that the western nations would have lost their minds if we had lost a hundred thousand people in a battle like the russians did when they took berlin. I wrote a few paragraphs and erased them a few times since it became a rant. Basically I am a history freak and was just responding to my opinion on how most ww2 commanders would have used a nuke to win the war really quick. The difference between WW1 and WW2 is that the commanders in WW1 were stuck in the old ways of thinking and the modern weapons made those tactics obsolete. Though the russians used horde tactics in WW2. Anyways I wasn't bringing it up to refrence the turians or anyhing.
However since you brought it up the krogans were so horrific because they did stuff that killed a ton of civilians. I think I read in the codex somewhere they dropped an asteroid on a planet (can't remember which species). Personally I think the genophage should have been altered by mordin and his team rather then brought back to their full birth rate. One female having a hundred babies a year is not sustaniable when so many survive. I was saying they should make it one out of fifty survive. It would have been a little more then human birth rates and would have been enough to give the krogan help surviving without giving them back the horde. I didn't like how the genophage was an all or nothing thing. Either completely cure it or let them die.
And by human birth rates I mean most human women can't have more then one kid a year and are unlikely to have a kid EVERY year even during the dark ages. I also never heard anything about krogan woman not having kids after a certain age. So one female before the geophage can have ten thousand kids in a century and even if only half survived.. You just can't sustain that number. So the option to alter the genophage should have been brought up. Because otherwise the krogan are gonna HAVE to start expanding quickly to other worlds because they will over populate so quick. That's why if wrex isn't the big krogan I wouldn't have cured the genophage because despite the fact curing it is morally right in the long run the krogan without wrex would become a problem real quick. I hope wrex keeps the krogan from over populating
Oh boy, from another history freak then, I salute you.  I don't know if I call the commanders of WWII "evil" or "good". One perspective some people lost about WWII today is how destructive the conflict was (not talking about you). When you start to look at the numbers is really terrifying, no wonder this war still remains one of the most devastating conflicts in world's history by a long shot. Even if you combine every single conflict after it you don't come close to the death toll or the destruction inflicted by the WWII. It is not called a "Global War" for nothing, almost every single nation of the planet was involved in one way or another.
Take for example the nuclear bombing of Japan (a touchy subject, I know). Some people forget that those bombs were actually divised to be dropped on Nazi Germany. The war in Europe ended before the allies could do that. I think my comparison between the turians and the krogan came from that. The US dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, a devastating and terrifying attack. After the bombing they contacted Japan and demanded their surrender, explaining that wasn't the only bomb they had and if the war was to continue more will be dropped in Japan. Of course today we know it was a bluff, there was only another functional nuclear bomb to immediate use. And that's it. Since Japan decided to continue the war, US dropped the second one on Nagasaki. Then Japan surrendered. I will not discuss the morals and ethics about this act, a heated debate that still exist today, that's not what I was referring to when comparing krogans and turians. The turians are a warlike people? I think they are. The turians have a militaristic society? Yes, they have. Garrus even says that, "society first, platoon first". Victus states in Tuchanka "victory at any cost" when preventing the bomb from detonating. Victory at any cost is a pretty harsh and cruel way to do things sometimes. But I think the main difference between the turians and krogan is you can reason, talk and negociate with the turians, even when at war with them. After deploying the genophage the turians didn't continued to engage in war with the krogans.
The krogans on the other hand, I doubt you could talk or negotiate with them, since for them "destroying the enemies in a gaiser of their own blood" is the krogan way to do things. They are "intrinsic evil"? I think not, it was how their society evolved. After the release of the genophage the krogan surrendered and were demilitarized. This make the turians "bad and evil"? I don't think so. If they were really evil they would continue the war and wipe out the krogans. Even the salarians showed restrain when creating the genophage to not erradicate the krogans. Also let's not forget the turians, salarians and asari were probably taking a beating from the krogan. According to Primarch Victus, the krogan were on the verge of invading Palaven itself. So the salarians did what they could, the fastest way they could, without exterminating the krogans in the process.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 13:14:52 GMT
As I recall, turians don't discriminate between military and civilian targets and it is stated their war-time tactics are very ruthless and destructive as they aim to ensure that the first war fought with any opponent is the last one. Yeah the turians don't mess around. However they didn't drop asteroids and while I often defend the krogan they did stuff just for the violence in many cases where as the turians are ruthless to a point and once they believed they proved their point or the enemy surrenders they stop. Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 11, 2019 20:48:22 GMT
Yeah the turians don't mess around. However they didn't drop asteroids and while I often defend the krogan they did stuff just for the violence in many cases where as the turians are ruthless to a point and once they believed they proved their point or the enemy surrenders they stop. Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go Indications are that the turians really do use very similar tactics as the krogan did. According to the ME wiki, when besieging Shanxi, turians dropped orbital debris, destroying entire city blocks, just to wipe out a single alliance fire team. They may still have gone after military targets overall but civilian casualties just didn't seem to matter at all. It is true that they occupied the colony instead of wiping it out when the humans surrendered but at that point, they basically thought that they had defeated the humans as a whole. If they had known that reinforcements were on their way, who knows what they'd have done.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2019 21:23:26 GMT
Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go Indications are that the turians really do use very similar tactics as the krogan did. According to the ME wiki, when besieging Shanxi, turians dropped orbital debris, destroying entire city blocks, just to wipe out a single alliance fire team. They may still have gone after military targets overall but civilian casualties just didn't seem to matter at all. It is true that they occupied the colony instead of wiping it out when the humans surrendered but at that point, they basically thought that they had defeated the humans as a whole. If they had known that reinforcements were on their way, who knows what they'd have done.
That makes sense. Realistically, the Alliance would use the same tactics. All you have to do to know that is watch the news.
EDIT: Not a particular criticism of the human race. I just wanted to point out that the turians and krogan aren't so different.
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Post by opuspace on Apr 12, 2019 4:56:38 GMT
Yeah the turians don't mess around. However they didn't drop asteroids and while I often defend the krogan they did stuff just for the violence in many cases where as the turians are ruthless to a point and once they believed they proved their point or the enemy surrenders they stop. Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go Here's what it's said what happened during the Krogan Rebellions: Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel who had a massive fleet and a militaristic culture. Establishing hidden command centres, like Pinnacle Station, turians were able to defeat many krogan bands. But the krogan responded with characteristically horrific attacks on turian worlds, using asteroids as weapons and rendering three planets totally uninhabitable.
Unfortunately, this was exactly the wrong approach to take with the turians. Turian military doctrine was (and remains) not simply to defeat an enemy, but stop them from ever becoming a threat again. Far from turning turian public opinion against the war, the ferocity of the krogan only served to stiffen their enemy's resolve and unite every turian against them.And here's what happened with First Contact War: Eventually the turians broke through to attack Shanxi, the closest human colony to the mass relay, and settled in for a protracted orbital siege. With the turians in a superior position, able to kill any human soldiers from above, the Shanxi defenders began to starve, unable to get food or supplies without risking civilian lives. Eventually General Williams, Ashley Williams' grandfather, was forced to surrender the Shanxi garrison.This tells me that the difference between Krogan and Turian tactics are the degree of the methods used. Both are still guilty in both situations of starting hostilities but the Turians didn't render Shanxi inhospitable for life to develop later. I suspect that it was done more out of pragmatism for resources rather than mercy for humans during the First Contact War given how rare garden worlds are. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 12, 2019 16:28:30 GMT
Also, at the time, the turians were part of the council, which had established clear laws against extinction level attacks on planets. If they had gone that far at Shanxi, they would probably have faced severe consequences from the salarians and the asari, which would not have been in their interest.
My guess is that - because the turian culture is drawn to adhere to authority - their stance on warfare changed over the past 1500-2000 years as they were part of the council. Since it is the policy of the galactic authority to ban extinction level attacks on garden worlds, the turians have incorporated this policy into their own military doctrines.
At least that would be my best guess.
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Post by burningcherry on Apr 12, 2019 23:45:01 GMT
There's a reason why turian classes have point debuff powers and passive headshot damage and weapon stability bonuses while krogans specialize in InciAmmo glitching or physical strength and get active bonuses for killing things with their hammers and bare hands.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 1:17:43 GMT
Yeah the turians don't mess around. However they didn't drop asteroids and while I often defend the krogan they did stuff just for the violence in many cases where as the turians are ruthless to a point and once they believed they proved their point or the enemy surrenders they stop. Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go To be fair about the first contact war it was essentially an escalation on each side. The biggest problem was no communication. The humans had no clue why the turians attacked and the turians thought the humans were being irresponisble by opening the relay. Also For the turians they don't even consider it a war but an "incident" the asari and salarians were just going "hold on a second and lets figure out whats going on". So I suppose they are war like but they will listen to reason. Remember the turians are on the council and I imagine if they really pushed that they wanted to go to war the asari councilor or salarian councilor would have caved.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 1:24:16 GMT
Is that actually true? Regarding the First Contact War, the Council stepped in to stop things. We really don't know how far they'd go Here's what it's said what happened during the Krogan Rebellions: Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel who had a massive fleet and a militaristic culture. Establishing hidden command centres, like Pinnacle Station, turians were able to defeat many krogan bands. But the krogan responded with characteristically horrific attacks on turian worlds, using asteroids as weapons and rendering three planets totally uninhabitable.
Unfortunately, this was exactly the wrong approach to take with the turians. Turian military doctrine was (and remains) not simply to defeat an enemy, but stop them from ever becoming a threat again. Far from turning turian public opinion against the war, the ferocity of the krogan only served to stiffen their enemy's resolve and unite every turian against them.And here's what happened with First Contact War: Eventually the turians broke through to attack Shanxi, the closest human colony to the mass relay, and settled in for a protracted orbital siege. With the turians in a superior position, able to kill any human soldiers from above, the Shanxi defenders began to starve, unable to get food or supplies without risking civilian lives. Eventually General Williams, Ashley Williams' grandfather, was forced to surrender the Shanxi garrison.This tells me that the difference between Krogan and Turian tactics are the degree of the methods used. Both are still guilty in both situations of starting hostilities but the Turians didn't render Shanxi inhospitable for life to develop later. I suspect that it was done more out of pragmatism for resources rather than mercy for humans during the First Contact War given how rare garden worlds are. I find it hard to believe the turians couldn't have just shelled shanxi into a crater with their ships weapons alone. Then the planet would still be livable.
I think the turians are strong and want order but once an enemy surrenders and is beaten they don't keep kicking the enemy while it was on the ground. The krogan on the other hand would just keep going until their enemy was hamburger meat.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 1:27:02 GMT
Also, at the time, the turians were part of the council, which had established clear laws against extinction level attacks on planets. If they had gone that far at Shanxi, they would probably have faced severe consequences from the salarians and the asari, which would not have been in their interest. My guess is that - because the turian culture is drawn to adhere to authority - their stance on warfare changed over the past 1500-2000 years as they were part of the council. Since it is the policy of the galactic authority to ban extinction level attacks on garden worlds, the turians have incorporated this policy into their own military doctrines. At least that would be my best guess. To be fair the turians could have shelled shanxi to a crater and thus avoided destroying a planet but wiping out the humans. Instead when the humans surrendered the turians stopped.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 1:31:30 GMT
I was just pointing out that the commanders of WW2 weren't too much better in terms of troop loss's then the WW1 commanders. The big difference was that the western nations would have lost their minds if we had lost a hundred thousand people in a battle like the russians did when they took berlin. I wrote a few paragraphs and erased them a few times since it became a rant. Basically I am a history freak and was just responding to my opinion on how most ww2 commanders would have used a nuke to win the war really quick. The difference between WW1 and WW2 is that the commanders in WW1 were stuck in the old ways of thinking and the modern weapons made those tactics obsolete. Though the russians used horde tactics in WW2. Anyways I wasn't bringing it up to refrence the turians or anyhing.
However since you brought it up the krogans were so horrific because they did stuff that killed a ton of civilians. I think I read in the codex somewhere they dropped an asteroid on a planet (can't remember which species). Personally I think the genophage should have been altered by mordin and his team rather then brought back to their full birth rate. One female having a hundred babies a year is not sustaniable when so many survive. I was saying they should make it one out of fifty survive. It would have been a little more then human birth rates and would have been enough to give the krogan help surviving without giving them back the horde. I didn't like how the genophage was an all or nothing thing. Either completely cure it or let them die.
And by human birth rates I mean most human women can't have more then one kid a year and are unlikely to have a kid EVERY year even during the dark ages. I also never heard anything about krogan woman not having kids after a certain age. So one female before the geophage can have ten thousand kids in a century and even if only half survived.. You just can't sustain that number. So the option to alter the genophage should have been brought up. Because otherwise the krogan are gonna HAVE to start expanding quickly to other worlds because they will over populate so quick. That's why if wrex isn't the big krogan I wouldn't have cured the genophage because despite the fact curing it is morally right in the long run the krogan without wrex would become a problem real quick. I hope wrex keeps the krogan from over populating
Oh boy, from another history freak then, I salute you. I don't know if I call the commanders of WWII "evil" or "good". One perspective some people lost about WWII today is how destructive the conflict was (not talking about you). When you start to look at the numbers is really terrifying, no wonder this war still remains one of the most devastating conflicts in world's history by a long shot. Even if you combine every single conflict after it you don't come close to the death toll or the destruction inflicted by the WWII. It is not called a "Global War" for nothing, almost every single nation of the planet was involved in one way or another.
Take for example the nuclear bombing of Japan (a touchy subject, I know). Some people forget that those bombs were actually divised to be dropped on Nazi Germany. The war in Europe ended before the allies could do that. I think my comparison between the turians and the krogan came from that. The US dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, a devastating and terrifying attack. After the bombing they contacted Japan and demanded their surrender, explaining that wasn't the only bomb they had and if the war was to continue more will be dropped in Japan. Of course today we know it was a bluff, there was only another functional nuclear bomb to immediate use. And that's it. Since Japan decided to continue the war, US dropped the second one on Nagasaki. Then Japan surrendered. I will not discuss the morals and ethics about this act, a heated debate that still exist today, that's not what I was referring to when comparing krogans and turians. The turians are a warlike people? I think they are. The turians have a militaristic society? Yes, they have. Garrus even says that, "society first, platoon first". Victus states in Tuchanka "victory at any cost" when preventing the bomb from detonating. Victory at any cost is a pretty harsh and cruel way to do things sometimes. But I think the main difference between the turians and krogan is you can reason, talk and negociate with the turians, even when at war with them. After deploying the genophage the turians didn't continued to engage in war with the krogans.
The krogans on the other hand, I doubt you could talk or negotiate with them, since for them "destroying the enemies in a gaiser of their own blood" is the krogan way to do things. They are "intrinsic evil"? I think not, it was how their society evolved. After the release of the genophage the krogan surrendered and were demilitarized. This make the turians "bad and evil"? I don't think so. If they were really evil they would continue the war and wipe out the krogans. Even the salarians showed restrain when creating the genophage to not erradicate the krogans. Also let's not forget the turians, salarians and asari were probably taking a beating from the krogan. According to Primarch Victus, the krogan were on the verge of invading Palaven itself. So the salarians did what they could, the fastest way they could, without exterminating the krogans in the process.
I agree with this. However I think that ME3 made the genophage choice to narrow. If they had altered the genophage they could have it where one in fifty krogan would survive. Given how fast the krogan breed this would have made them able to survive and yet not overflow the galaxy.
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Post by yan on Apr 13, 2019 1:55:36 GMT
When I play ME2 and find myself running with two outlaws in a hallway, shooting at other outlaws, I always think "what the heck does Shepard is doing? How is this going to stop the armed reaper?"
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Post by opuspace on Apr 13, 2019 2:10:04 GMT
I find it hard to believe the turians couldn't have just shelled shanxi into a crater with their ships weapons alone. Then the planet would still be livable.
I think the turians are strong and want order but once an enemy surrenders and is beaten they don't keep kicking the enemy while it was on the ground. The krogan on the other hand would just keep going until their enemy was hamburger meat. The cynic in me could argue that the Turians saw the humans as a people who think like them: Killing them all would only stiffen the resolve of the rest of their species instead of demoralizing them by witnessing their military surrender. This is a race that shot first and didn't ask questions even though I'm reluctant to liken them to the Krogan who were indiscriminate about the destruction they caused to those who didn't agree with them. I'd say that whatever the Turians did, they did out of calculated force. As for the Krogan, they could have gotten their numbers up had it not been for several factors: their cultural attitude of glorifying conflict, their biological disposition for growth through conflict, the loss of mitigating factors that kept their population in check and the availability of technology that enabled certain parts of their culture while inhibiting others. In a perverse way, the genophage forced the Krogan to value their offspring more than they did in the days of the horde. Andromeda canonized that they do breed in clutches of eggs, something that is far more difficult to keep in check compared to a human's form of procreation. |
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 19:40:20 GMT
I find it hard to believe the turians couldn't have just shelled shanxi into a crater with their ships weapons alone. Then the planet would still be livable.
I think the turians are strong and want order but once an enemy surrenders and is beaten they don't keep kicking the enemy while it was on the ground. The krogan on the other hand would just keep going until their enemy was hamburger meat. The cynic in me could argue that the Turians saw the humans as a people who think like them: Killing them all would only stiffen the resolve of the rest of their species instead of demoralizing them by witnessing their military surrender. This is a race that shot first and didn't ask questions even though I'm reluctant to liken them to the Krogan who were indiscriminate about the destruction they caused to those who didn't agree with them. I'd say that whatever the Turians did, they did out of calculated force. As for the Krogan, they could have gotten their numbers up had it not been for several factors: their cultural attitude of glorifying conflict, their biological disposition for growth through conflict, the loss of mitigating factors that kept their population in check and the availability of technology that enabled certain parts of their culture while inhibiting others. In a perverse way, the genophage forced the Krogan to value their offspring more than they did in the days of the horde. Andromeda canonized that they do breed in clutches of eggs, something that is far more difficult to keep in check compared to a human's form of procreation. I think that while the genophage was horrible it taught them to value their children. As for the turians firing on the humans I think the turians see things very black and white and saw someone breaking a very important law and wanted to stop them. That said We don't know if the turians tried to order the alliance ships to stop or just fired. Remember that the alliance and turians couldn't really communicate.
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Post by opuspace on Apr 13, 2019 20:07:29 GMT
The cynic in me could argue that the Turians saw the humans as a people who think like them: Killing them all would only stiffen the resolve of the rest of their species instead of demoralizing them by witnessing their military surrender. This is a race that shot first and didn't ask questions even though I'm reluctant to liken them to the Krogan who were indiscriminate about the destruction they caused to those who didn't agree with them. I'd say that whatever the Turians did, they did out of calculated force. As for the Krogan, they could have gotten their numbers up had it not been for several factors: their cultural attitude of glorifying conflict, their biological disposition for growth through conflict, the loss of mitigating factors that kept their population in check and the availability of technology that enabled certain parts of their culture while inhibiting others. In a perverse way, the genophage forced the Krogan to value their offspring more than they did in the days of the horde. Andromeda canonized that they do breed in clutches of eggs, something that is far more difficult to keep in check compared to a human's form of procreation. I think that while the genophage was horrible it taught them to value their children. As for the turians firing on the humans I think the turians see things very black and white and saw someone breaking a very important law and wanted to stop them. That said We don't know if the turians tried to order the alliance ships to stop or just fired. Remember that the alliance and turians couldn't really communicate. We're not in disagreement then if we're saying the same thing. But I'm also wondering how far does a translator work for an alien race that's not part of the Galactic system. We haven't had any Turian dispute what happened in the First Contact War when it comes to whether the Turians shot first without trying to communicate. If I were to be charitable, it could have been an impulse decision to stop someone right then and there and talking wouldn't have halted the action, but it still leaves too many other questions like why didn't they just fire warning shots? Or why didn't they incapacitate them non-lethally? |
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 14, 2019 23:19:28 GMT
I think that while the genophage was horrible it taught them to value their children. As for the turians firing on the humans I think the turians see things very black and white and saw someone breaking a very important law and wanted to stop them. That said We don't know if the turians tried to order the alliance ships to stop or just fired. Remember that the alliance and turians couldn't really communicate. We're not in disagreement then if we're saying the same thing. But I'm also wondering how far does a translator work for an alien race that's not part of the Galactic system. We haven't had any Turian dispute what happened in the First Contact War when it comes to whether the Turians shot first without trying to communicate. If I were to be charitable, it could have been an impulse decision to stop someone right then and there and talking wouldn't have halted the action, but it still leaves too many other questions like why didn't they just fire warning shots? Or why didn't they incapacitate them non-lethally? Because in the turians mind everyone should know not to open a dormant mass relay. They didn't know that that ship was human and that humans had no idea about that law or that turians even existed. In the turians mind it was just someone is breaking the law and we are going to stop them. That is their leaderships way of thinking
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Post by opuspace on Apr 15, 2019 1:50:08 GMT
We're not in disagreement then if we're saying the same thing. But I'm also wondering how far does a translator work for an alien race that's not part of the Galactic system. We haven't had any Turian dispute what happened in the First Contact War when it comes to whether the Turians shot first without trying to communicate. If I were to be charitable, it could have been an impulse decision to stop someone right then and there and talking wouldn't have halted the action, but it still leaves too many other questions like why didn't they just fire warning shots? Or why didn't they incapacitate them non-lethally? Because in the turians mind everyone should know not to open a dormant mass relay. They didn't know that that ship was human and that humans had no idea about that law or that turians even existed. In the turians mind it was just someone is breaking the law and we are going to stop them. That is their leaderships way of thinking Exactly. |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 15, 2019 23:24:18 GMT
We're not in disagreement then if we're saying the same thing. But I'm also wondering how far does a translator work for an alien race that's not part of the Galactic system. We haven't had any Turian dispute what happened in the First Contact War when it comes to whether the Turians shot first without trying to communicate. If I were to be charitable, it could have been an impulse decision to stop someone right then and there and talking wouldn't have halted the action, but it still leaves too many other questions like why didn't they just fire warning shots? Or why didn't they incapacitate them non-lethally? Because in the turians mind everyone should know not to open a dormant mass relay. They didn't know that that ship was human and that humans had no idea about that law or that turians even existed. In the turians mind it was just someone is breaking the law and we are going to stop them. That is their leaderships way of thinking That makes turians out to being dumber than portrayed. It’s pretty obvious the dormant relay law is directionally based. People outside the network could never know not to open it after all. It’s meant for people in the network not to poke and explore. The turians were scared and acted out of fear of the unknown. |
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 16, 2019 20:35:01 GMT
Because in the turians mind everyone should know not to open a dormant mass relay. They didn't know that that ship was human and that humans had no idea about that law or that turians even existed. In the turians mind it was just someone is breaking the law and we are going to stop them. That is their leaderships way of thinking That makes turians out to being dumber than portrayed. It’s pretty obvious the dormant relay law is directionally based. People outside the network could never know not to open it after all. It’s meant for people in the network not to poke and explore. The turians were scared and acted out of fear of the unknown. No the turians are not dumb but they are very much a "follow orders" type people. They like order for the most part and value discipline more then the other races. Just because they prefer things in a "black and white" way rather then grey doesn't meant their dumb.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 16, 2019 20:53:37 GMT
Yea, I have to agree, for the turians to just open fire on unknown vessels, rather then trying to communicate (with warning shots, hostile maneuvering or whatever) is either just plain stupid or incredibly hostile and unreasonable.
I mean, the turians are with th ecouncil for a while now. They must have witnessed or been part of first contact situations before. I cannot believe the council did not have protocols in place for such a situation.
Unfortunately, looking at the wiki, there is not much information out there about what exactly happened at relay 314.
Hell of a "police action" to destroy ships and lives so callously in a first contact situation. I don't think the asari would have been down with that.
Given that we don't have a lot of information, if I do want to redeem the turians, I can only imagine two scenarios:
- The turian in command of that force was acting on impulse or on some weird wrong signals for some reason.
- The turians might have fired warning shots, which the humans didn't get, so they fired back and the whole shootout started by accident.
But this is all head canon and not really supported by what we know from the games/books. If we are strictly going with what's in the codex, the turians way overdid it on their "policing" against a species (us) who could not yet know the laws.
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