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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 21:37:25 GMT
I have a hard time letting them die since it seems to make all the aliens against humans in ME2. But what do you think
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Post by ahglock on Mar 8, 2019 23:55:25 GMT
I have a hard time letting them die since it seems to make all the aliens against humans in ME2. But what do you think I don’t think it really has a substantive effect. Like maybe a few more ems one way or the other in me3. It’s really just dialogue. So whatever you think is best. I always say focus on sovereign. I’m not against them surviving, but the end game is survival of the galaxy. And if you fail here they’d be dead anyways. So everything is on stopping sovereign. From a gamist perspective I knew it wouldn’t be a game over if you saved them. But from a Shepard perspective I don’t know that. And it is a roleplaying game. And how I roleplay my Shepard he’s not taking the chance when the stakes are that high.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2019 0:48:00 GMT
I let them die. Focus on the reaper. The other thing is the destiny commander. I fault her for putting the council in harms way. Once the council is onboard, why didn't she have the ship fly away from the battle?
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Post by burningcherry on Mar 9, 2019 2:41:40 GMT
I don't care about them but the volus in the wards said that that ship they're on has as much firepower as half a fleet so I guess that it pays off to sacrifice a couple small ships in the early phase of the battle just to save it and have it fighting for the rest.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 9, 2019 2:46:57 GMT
The ship the Council is on carried more crewmembers and had working guns to fire at Sovereign. Didn't need to save the Council for their sake to justify saving the Destiny Ascension.
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Post by melbella on Mar 9, 2019 2:56:16 GMT
I don’t think it really has a substantive effect. Like maybe a few more ems one way or the other in me3. It’s really just dialogue When not saving the Council, the feel on the Citadel was, for me, noticeably different in ME2. The anti-human sentiments were much stronger but also made more sense than if the Council was still around.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 9, 2019 3:01:04 GMT
The destiny ascension was running you don’t pack the council on to fight. They weren’t going to do shit for the battle.
The main drive was down, barriers weak even if they stuck around what would they do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 3:19:43 GMT
It really makes no difference overall and what I do totally depends on the type of Shepard I'm trying to create for that playthrough.
1) Motivation for "Save the Council" - Vigil just finished telling Shepard that the Reaper attack succeeded so well against the Protheans in part because they basically destroyed the Prothean government in their first attack... so, not about to let them gain that sort of advantage this time around. Tremendous faith in the fleet being able to do both, save the Destiny Ascension and taking down Sovereign. As a marine... no one gets left behind. (Used with Shepard's that have a lot of hubris.)
2) Motivation for "Focus on Sovereign" - Lack of faith in the fleet to be able to do both and, therefore, choosing to sacrifice the Destiny Ascension to ensure that the larger target goes down. Used with Shepard's that are more logical and pragmatic.
3) Motivation for "Let the Council Die" - Very pro-human stance overall. These Shepards are the ones that have been at odds with the Turian councillor from the get go and who refuse to take Garrus onto the squad. They support Terra Firma and, if Earthborn, will spring Curt Weisman from jail.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 9, 2019 3:35:10 GMT
I don’t think it really has a substantive effect. Like maybe a few more ems one way or the other in me3. It’s really just dialogue When not saving the Council, the feel on the Citadel was, for me, noticeably different in ME2. The anti-human sentiments were much stronger but also made more sense than if the Council was still around. Oh definitely. My point was there is no mechanical advantage either way. A few points. Either you have destiny ascension or a bigger fifth fleet. It’s just roleplaying effects. Roll with it, live it up even. Tell that turian gun dealer off that he better give you guns so you can kill geth and protect his bitch ass.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2019 3:39:03 GMT
3) Motivation for "Let the Council Die" - Very pro-human stance overall. These Shepards are the ones that have been at odds with the Turian councillor from the get go and who refuse to take Garrus onto the squad. They support Terra Firma I agree about being at odds with the turian councilor, but do you have anything to support the other 2 you mentioned? I have recruited Garrus. He was with my Shepard when she chose to let the council die to save human lives, and with Terra Firma, I just ignore them, except the two times I supported and not supported them.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 9, 2019 4:02:49 GMT
It really makes no difference overall and what I do totally depends on the type of Shepard I'm trying to create for that playthrough.
1) Motivation for "Save the Council" - Vigil just finished telling Shepard that the Reaper attack succeeded so well against the Protheans in part because they basically destroyed the Prothean government in their first attack... so, not about to let them gain that sort of advantage this time around. Tremendous faith in the fleet being able to do both, save the Destiny Ascension and taking down Sovereign. As a marine... no one gets left behind. (Used with Shepard's that have a lot of hubris.)
2) Motivation for "Focus on Sovereign" - Lack of faith in the fleet to be able to do both and, therefore, choosing to sacrifice the Destiny Ascension to ensure that the larger target goes down. Used with Shepard's that are more logical and pragmatic.
3) Motivation for "Let the Council Die" - Very pro-human stance overall. These Shepards are the ones that have been at odds with the Turian councillor from the get go and who refuse to take Garrus onto the squad. They support Terra Firma and, if Earthborn, will spring Curt Weisman from jail.
While I always say focus on sovereign I do feel those were the 3 heavily implied arguments from the few lines they give.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 9, 2019 7:04:34 GMT
In all my playthroughs, I have never once sacrificed the Destiny Ascension or the Council.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 18:14:34 GMT
3) Motivation for "Let the Council Die" - Very pro-human stance overall. These Shepards are the ones that have been at odds with the Turian councillor from the get go and who refuse to take Garrus onto the squad. They support Terra Firma I agree about being at odds with the turian councilor, but do you have anything to support the other 2 you mentioned? I have recruited Garrus. He was with my Shepard when she chose to let the council die to save human lives, and with Terra Firma, I just ignore them, except the two times I supported and not supported them. Proof??... for how I roleplay my individual Shepards? That's an odd request. I use "Let the Council Die" when my Shepard is taking a very pro-human stance and when he/she supports Terra Firma when asked to do so on the Citadel. He/she will then also likely recruit Wrex and not Garrus (since he/she has to recruit one of them). As for Tali, he/she will refuse to take her, but then Udina will force the issue. Of course, all of it is within the range the game will allow... and sometimes that means that those Shepard's can't come across as racist as I would like to play them out to be... but I make do.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2019 18:32:40 GMT
Proof??... for how I roleplay my individual Shepards? That's an odd request. My bad for misreading what you posted
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 9, 2019 18:51:45 GMT
I save them Most of the time. But I will admit, I mostly do it for Joker’s epic “cavalry is here” moment and because I know that in the end, it really doesn’t make that much difference in ME2/3.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 10, 2019 0:03:04 GMT
I save them Most of the time. But I will admit, I mostly do it for Joker’s epic “cavalry is here” moment and because I know that in the end, it really doesn’t make that much difference in ME2/3. It would have been nice if there had been a bigger difference.
The 3 choices I think were pretty clear in intent.
1. Save the council. Not tactically sound but fairly strategic, you are gambling you will pull his fight off and having the council around will help in the ongoing fight against the reapers.
2. Focus on sovereign. The tactically sound option. You are less worried about the long term fight against the reapers and are more concerned with succeeding today.
3. Fuck the council. which in effect is 2,
If the results had been something like with
1, your forces are significantly damaged but the council takes the reaper threat more seriously and begins taking steps for the future.
2. Your forces are rock solid, but the new council things the reapers are bull shit and aren't doing anything to prepare for the future.
3. Same as 2 but all the aliens hate humans, as I'd assume logs are available of your comms.
In ME3 maybe forming alliances is pretty easy, with 1, maybe you can't form certain alliances if you went with fuck the council/ End of the day it could still just be somewhat different EMS scores still but the reason why would be a bit more robust than you have the destiny ascension or you have the 5th fleet.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 10, 2019 1:18:14 GMT
That would indeed have been very cool.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 10, 2019 3:53:56 GMT
In all my playthroughs, I have never once sacrificed the Destiny Ascension or the Council. I did it once just to see how it played out. I don't mind so much that the Council disliked me in ME2. It's not like that's anything new. No, the ending bothered me. It gave me a very ominous feeling, like darkness had descended. Honestly, I dislike the original Council. I prefer the second Council. Even with them running scared and making stupid decisions, they generally talked to you like a human being and not some jerk who just walked in from the street - instead of as the trusted Spectre he or she became. I mean those idiots blamed Shepard for what happened on Virmire even though it was Kirrahe's plan. Also, it was a good plan. The only sentients on Virmire were the STG, Shepard's crew and Saren's lackies. Hardly a loss there.
Anyway, sidetracked, but I'm saying that though I save the Council in general, I think they're the worst kind of idiots running the show.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 10, 2019 3:55:19 GMT
That would indeed have been very cool. Ditto!
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Post by themikefest on Mar 10, 2019 14:25:53 GMT
In all my playthroughs, I have never once sacrificed the Destiny Ascension or the Council. In all my playthroughs, I have never saved the council
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 10, 2019 22:46:38 GMT
The simplest answer is that it doesn't matter at all unless you are trying to roleplay. So in that case, what would your Shepard do? I would argue that the most responsible decision is to "focus on Sovereign". Now this is not the same, in terms of mentality, as "let them die". If Sovereign is not destroyed it will open the relay and the Reapers will pour into the galaxy. That's it. Everyone will die and resistance will be impossible. The Reapers win. So if you lose firepower saving the Council then you might not be able to destroy Sovereign in time if at all.
The mission comes first, remember?
Now of-course we, the players, know that Shepard can do either and will still succeed. However Shepard wouldn't know that in-universe. The choice to save the Council is framed as a morale choice with some long-term considerations, but I would argue that if you lose the battle NOW that there won't BE any long term. I've also seen this debate taken into detail about whether saving the Destiny Ascension would free up other turian ships to aid you or whether it is better because you eliminate a bunch of geth ships, and those are all reasonable arguments, but it is clear from a narrative standpoint how the writers are framing the dilemma.
Mission first, eliminate the threat, worry about the cost later
Or
Duty and consideration to the Council first, regardless of the risk
When the survival of all intelligent life is at stake I always ere on the side of caution.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 1, 2019 1:03:39 GMT
It doesn't really matter because none of the choices didn't really impact the narrative, and there are no consequences if the Council is sacrificed. Either way, they are incompetent when it comes to facing the main threat that will affect the entire galaxy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 12:05:57 GMT
t doesn't really matter because none of the choices didn't really impact the narrative, and there are no consequences if the Council is sacrificed. Either way, they are incompetent when it comes to facing the main threat that will affect the entire galaxy. How do you know that affects the entire gameplay since there is no alternate choice in the game?
For all we know, a competent council who did everything they could to prepare against the Reapers may have found themselves in the exact same position... just having fired a few more rounds at them during the whole-sale attack on their planets. They may have still be struggling to find and build an alien super-weapon, etc. We don't know, for example, that the Prothean government was incompetent or competent. They put up a prolonged fight against the harvest and tried numerous different things to save themselves (including cryo projects on at least two separate planets - Ilos and Eden Prime). Yet, the result was that they were wiped out by the Reapers.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 1, 2019 13:51:11 GMT
Would a competent council have made a difference? Possible. They know there was a prothean beacon on Eden Prime. Anderson mentions Shepards vision. The asari councilor, at least the replacement in ME3, knew about the artifact on Thessia. If she were to talk to the asari matriarchs, its possible they might let Shepard take a look, after he/she, received the cipher, and have t'soni with Shepard, to study the artifact. At that point, Vendetta would reveal all kinds of information about the reapers and what the protheans learned that can help this cycle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 14:36:07 GMT
Would a competent council have made a difference? Possible. They know there was a prothean beacon on Eden Prime. Anderson mentions Shepards vision. The asari councilor, at least the replacement in ME3, knew about the artifact on Thessia. If she were to talk to the asari matriarchs, its possible they might let Shepard take a look, after he/she, received the cipher, and have t'soni with Shepard, to study the artifact. At that point, Vendetta would reveal all kinds of information about the reapers and what the protheans learned that can help this cycle. Possible yes, but still conjecture really. Things still could have been written the way they were even with a competent council in place. The artifact on Thessia could have just been said to have been recently discovered instead of known about for centuries. Part of ME's schtick was ragging on politicians throughout.
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