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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 7, 2021 23:03:35 GMT
I voted no change. I always assumed that DA4 would be a SP game so this article confirming that didn't change my expectations at all really. What I will say about the recent news is that development for this game seems to have been an absolute shit show so far (from my tinfoil hat, armchair critic, fandom lurker perspective) 2 reboots, multiple departures, constantly changing project scope behind the scenes... doesn't look like its going well. I also reckon that DA4 will release in 2023 at the latest (as of late EA have them on a release schedule of 1 game every 2 years) so DA4 will likely be rushed, even though it will be almost 10 years since DAI came out. I expect DA4 to be a bit better than DAI & thats about it. Sounds like a GOTY then.
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Post by helios969 on Mar 8, 2021 9:00:11 GMT
I'm happy to hear this sort of thing but ultimately no change. I'm playing regardless and offering critiques after the fact. Even if I'm unhappy with the direction Bioware has taken over the past decade, I still find their games to have good value for the coinage.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 11:08:32 GMT
I voted no change. I always assumed that DA4 would be a SP game so this article confirming that didn't change my expectations at all really. What I will say about the recent news is that development for this game seems to have been an absolute shit show so far (from my tinfoil hat, armchair critic, fandom lurker perspective) 2 reboots, multiple departures, constantly changing project scope behind the scenes... doesn't look like its going well. I also reckon that DA4 will release in 2023 at the latest (as of late EA have them on a release schedule of 1 game every 2 years) so DA4 will likely be rushed, even though it will be almost 10 years since DAI came out. I expect DA4 to be a bit better than DAI & thats about it. Sounds like a GOTY then. I didn't expect my post to be interpreted like that I kinda forgot that "Better than DAI" can mean a lot of different things to different people For me its "better than the worst game in the series" but I appreciate you taking my complaining & turning it into a positive
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Mar 8, 2021 11:30:14 GMT
Havent changed, if its as good as DAI or even better, that'll be great. Also MP on the side ala MEA & DAI would not hurt at all
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 8, 2021 15:38:57 GMT
Huh... and yet Andromeda is only beaten by ME2 and nothing can beat Inquisition. One bad game in Anthem and the horrid ME3 ending, Bioware has been doing well. DAO beat Inquisition with its better strategic combat and better side quests that actually mattered.
I am not sure how Andromeda beats ME1 and ME3 given that Andromeda wasn't good enough to have any DLC.
Can you at least cone back with original points instead if the tired meme shit vomited out on bad youtube videos?
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Post by colfoley on Mar 8, 2021 19:42:01 GMT
Since Inquisition is my favorite game of all time I'd be very happy if it were better.
Id be acceptable if it were as good as Andromeda which is my third favorite game last generation.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 8, 2021 22:09:39 GMT
I don't think any feature can make a game good or bad. Its how the game is made and how the team is approaching the development of those games. I cannot find the social media post so I am not 100% sure this statement happened now, but I am pretty certain about a year ago the people at BioWare said they were still working on single player focused games after Anthem. So my opinion on the new Dragon Age game hasn't changed at all for its far too soon for me to have any real opinion on the game until I actually see what they are doing. I liked Dragon Age: Inquisition and felt it was hurt mostly with the idea they needed to make the game last for 100 hours for I enjoyed the game when I did the critical path only playthroughs. Its sort of the same feeling with Andromeda where I enjoyed the game a lot more when I made a critical path only playthrough. Skipping all that filler in those games made them feel pretty close to the prior games from BioWare for me. Its why I think I am more positive then most then most when I think replacing the upper levels of management could be a good thing for the studio for they might not make the same mistakes they keep making, but just amplifying them with each game released.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 9, 2021 0:12:33 GMT
While I think the game will be improved by not having bloat in it, you have to ask yourself when this directive came about. It is unlikely they out of the blue decided to ditch multiplayer. How long was multiplayer in development before this directive was given? If it was a short time, then fine. But if they were making it, then decided to just axe it...well, what will they do with all of that work.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 9, 2021 1:52:21 GMT
While I think the game will be improved by not having bloat in it, you have to ask yourself when this directive came about. It is unlikely they out of the blue decided to ditch multiplayer. How long was multiplayer in development before this directive was given? If it was a short time, then fine. But if they were making it, then decided to just axe it...well, what will they do with all of that work. The direct quote I saw was that there weren't going to be live service elements, nothing about not having multiplayer. Multiplayer and live service does not mean that having one means the other is present and that not having one means the other isn't. Assassin's Creed games have their Helix store and do not have multiplayer, but are a very much a live service game. I would say any game that has a Season Pass has some level of live service element because it gets the players to spend more money then the initial purchase and tries to get the player to play longer then they might have already since they have pre-ordered all the DLC content for the game.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 9, 2021 13:49:16 GMT
I'm looking at a lot of the comments here, and other threads, and the term "reboot" has come up multiple times in reference to the game now being announced as single-player only. Why do some wish to classify that decision as such? The move from Joplin to Morrison was much more of a reboot because it's design needed to fit the live service scheme, it's being built on Anthems codebase, and BioWare - apparently - scrapped a good portion of what they had been working on. The move to singleplayer-only doesn't sound like it would be that drastic a change. We also don't know exactly how intertwined the live service aspect was with the core game. If it was a cooperative campaign, that'd be one thing. But if it was just daily, weekly, and monthly quests for you to get premium currency towards cosmetics, I don't think that would be so impactful to separate out.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 9, 2021 15:37:59 GMT
I'm looking at a lot of the comments here, and other threads, and the term "reboot" has come up multiple times in reference to the game now being announced as single-player only. Why do some wish to classify that decision as such? The move from Joplin to Morrison was much more of a reboot because it's design needed to fit the live service scheme, it was going to be built on Anthems engine, and they - apparently - scrapped a good portion of what they had been working on. This move to singleplayer only doesnt sound like it would be that drastic a change. We also dont know exactly how intertwined the live service aspect was with the core game. If it was a cooperative campaign, that'd be one thing. But if it was just daily, weekly, and monthly quests for you to get premium currency towards cosmetics, I dont think that would be so impactful to separate out. Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 9, 2021 16:04:33 GMT
I call Andromeda with swords because if they want to finish it before the ten year anniversary of inquisition that's what they'll have to do with it.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 9, 2021 22:42:02 GMT
I'm looking at a lot of the comments here, and other threads, and the term "reboot" has come up multiple times in reference to the game now being announced as single-player only. Why do some wish to classify that decision as such? The move from Joplin to Morrison was much more of a reboot because it's design needed to fit the live service scheme, it was going to be built on Anthems engine, and they - apparently - scrapped a good portion of what they had been working on. This move to singleplayer only doesnt sound like it would be that drastic a change. We also dont know exactly how intertwined the live service aspect was with the core game. If it was a cooperative campaign, that'd be one thing. But if it was just daily, weekly, and monthly quests for you to get premium currency towards cosmetics, I dont think that would be so impactful to separate out. Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on. That assumption always pains me because most of those people have no idea what it actually means that they use Anthem’s code base. They assume it means taking aspects of Anthem’s design and high level features while it actually probably refers to taking advantage of low level base functionalities that Anthem supports and base Frostbite does not. That leap seems to be behind a lot of preconceptions. For my part, I was always assuming that most of the live service would probably be in the form of some cooperative side activities like heists or something like the style of certain recent Assassin’s Creed games that I haven’t actually played in terms of additional content. In either case, the structure of the main story would remain largely intact so removing them would require work but not be a massive structural shift. So my feelings about the game are optimistic, but they were the same before this news broke. That is admittedly based on my own assumptions, but I also doubt they’d radically change the whole design at this juncture.
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Post by adonniel on Mar 10, 2021 0:30:45 GMT
In my opinion this game is designed for a single player experience. I'm in huge favour of these news.
In order to be multi player, the game core requires to be completely different from single player. Pleasing both is like playing human in one of those MMO rpg games. Humans are versatile, choose any class you want and they will do it in a half assed way. Better have a solid single game than a half assed hybrid.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 0:36:21 GMT
Hopeful.
BioWare kinda needs to stick the landing on this game. I hope they do, and this announcement returns the game to its, uh, origins.
I should go.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 10, 2021 1:54:04 GMT
Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on. That assumption always pains me because most of those people have no idea what it actually means that they use Anthem’s code base. They assume it means taking aspects of Anthem’s design and high level features while it actually probably refers to taking advantage of low level base functionalities that Anthem supports and base Frostbite does not. That leap seems to be behind a lot of preconceptions. For my part, I was always assuming that most of the live service would probably be in the form of some cooperative side activities like heists or something like the style of certain recent Assassin’s Creed games that I haven’t actually played in terms of additional content. In either case, the structure of the main story would remain largely intact so removing them would require work but not be a massive structural shift. So my feelings about the game are optimistic, but they were the same before this news broke. That is admittedly based on my own assumptions, but I also doubt they’d radically change the whole design at this juncture. That is how I am feeling as well. The way I see a lot of the comments is that people have only associated with the bad things they don't like and haven't heard what the developers and publishers have said on the matter. The way I have interpreted what I have heard from the developers is the premise of a live service is that there is something to keep players engaged with the game and still playing regularly since players drop of fast from a single player game. The monetization part could always be there, but could take different forms and even be independent of the live service aspect. So using Mass Effect as an example the live service in the single player could be something like a daily random mission that gives some kind of special rewards or a reward that is on the grinder side of thing. In the case of Mass Effect 3 it could have been just a small amount of War Assets. Now the monetization is just the DLC and weapon packs that BioWare has always had with their games. With the idea the longer someone plays the more likely they are going to at least buy the story DLC instead of having about a small attachment rate after a year. Its sort of the same thing with the Frostbite engine. It was widely circulated that "it wasn't made for RPGs" and without understanding how a game engine works people have now assumed that Frostbite won't work for BioWare RPGs even if other games have the similar features in them or that they can use a game engine designed for a shooter into one that works for a sports or driving game.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 10, 2021 12:49:31 GMT
While I think the game will be improved by not having bloat in it, you have to ask yourself when this directive came about. It is unlikely they out of the blue decided to ditch multiplayer. How long was multiplayer in development before this directive was given? If it was a short time, then fine. But if they were making it, then decided to just axe it...well, what will they do with all of that work. The same thing they do with "all of the work" from games that got entirely cancelled. Nothing.
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Post by elarem on Mar 10, 2021 15:22:38 GMT
I voted (cautiously) optimistic. I had several playthroughs of DA:O and DA 2 but only one complete DA:I and ME:A because they both suffer from ‘Never mind the quality feel the width’. If Bioware can make a story with a beginning, middle, end, and no unnecessary filler, then I will be pleased. This does however mean not buying on release and waiting for player feedback.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 10, 2021 16:57:30 GMT
I'm looking at a lot of the comments here, and other threads, and the term "reboot" has come up multiple times in reference to the game now being announced as single-player only. Why do some wish to classify that decision as such? The move from Joplin to Morrison was much more of a reboot because it's design needed to fit the live service scheme, it was going to be built on Anthems engine, and they - apparently - scrapped a good portion of what they had been working on. This move to singleplayer only doesnt sound like it would be that drastic a change. We also dont know exactly how intertwined the live service aspect was with the core game. If it was a cooperative campaign, that'd be one thing. But if it was just daily, weekly, and monthly quests for you to get premium currency towards cosmetics, I dont think that would be so impactful to separate out. Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on. But Shrier did say that DA4 was planned as a service game with a heavy multiplayer component that was considered a “mode.” After removing the mode, the game is now considered a single player RPG. That is unlike DAI’s multiplayer, as the story mode stood on its own and was considered a single-player game even with multiplayer - so Shrier basically insinuated that the “multiplayer mode” WAS the story mode. Players could just choose to play alone or with friends. Also, given that Anthem was used as a reason to eliminate multiplayer, I wouldn’t doubt that the GaaS elements and multiplayer were similar to Anthem. People’s interpretations obviously differ (reboot where?), but I don’t think it’s completely wild for people to be fearful that a whole lot of Anthem DNA was *this* close to existing in Dragon Age 4.
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Post by Xunne13 on Mar 10, 2021 19:36:47 GMT
No Change. There really hasn't been enough info released on DA4 for me to have formed an actual opinion on it's "potential". MP didn't detract from the SP in previous games, so whether this one has it or not I couldn't care less.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 10, 2021 21:45:44 GMT
Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on. But Shrier did say that DA4 was planned as a service game with a heavy multiplayer component that was considered a “mode.” After removing the mode, the game is now considered a single player RPG. That is unlike DAI’s multiplayer, as the story mode stood on its own and was considered a single-player game even with multiplayer - so Shrier basically insinuated that the “multiplayer mode” WAS the story mode. Players could just choose to play alone or with friends. And? That kind of "multiplayer mode", where a friend can join you in the campaign, has been around since before BioWare even made games. Are we gonna have a moral panic about arcades too? Cause we're 40 years too late for that.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2021 22:45:30 GMT
Its all about personal assumptions on what a live service is I bet. When I have seen reboot attached to DA4 here on a couple other places I visit they are also making the jump of logic to think DA4 was going to be nearly identical to Anthem because they moved to use the tools and engine status of Anthem for it. Its just like the leap of logic to think that live service automatically means multiplayer. Like you said we don't know enough to really know what is going on, but people like to think they know exactly what is going on. But Shrier did say that DA4 was planned as a service game with a heavy multiplayer component that was considered a “mode.” After removing the mode, the game is now considered a single player RPG. That is unlike DAI’s multiplayer, as the story mode stood on its own and was considered a single-player game even with multiplayer - so Shrier basically insinuated that the “multiplayer mode” WAS the story mode. Players could just choose to play alone or with friends. Also, given that Anthem was used as a reason to eliminate multiplayer, I wouldn’t doubt that the GaaS elements and multiplayer were similar to Anthem. People’s interpretations obviously differ (reboot where?), but I don’t think it’s completely wild for people to be fearful that a whole lot of Anthem DNA was *this* close to existing in Dragon Age 4. I think you are reading way too much into Schrier's comments...given there are other interpretations I have seen and I have even advanced myself...and other interpretations I personally believe about what was going on. In theory Schrier's previous article on the matter he did report on a couple of different options of what they were thinking about...and contrary to his own claims on the matter...none of them sounded like a full MMO and mostly a SP experience.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 11, 2021 0:33:47 GMT
And? That kind of "multiplayer mode", where a friend can join you in the campaign, has been around since before BioWare even made games. Are we gonna have a moral panic about arcades too? Cause we're 40 years too late for that. I gave my opinion in another thread. I was just telling the OP that multiplayer mode likely existed within the main campaign. I think you are reading way too much into Schrier's comments...given there are other interpretations I have seen and I have even advanced myself...and other interpretations I personally believe about what was going on. In theory Schrier's previous article on the matter he did report on a couple of different options of what they were thinking about...and contrary to his own claims on the matter...none of them sounded like a full MMO and mostly a SP experience. I see where you got MMO from my words, but what I meant was that single player and multiplayer mode would be combined into one, but the campaign and story would still specifically be designed for single players like any other BioWare story.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2021 0:40:36 GMT
And? That kind of "multiplayer mode", where a friend can join you in the campaign, has been around since before BioWare even made games. Are we gonna have a moral panic about arcades too? Cause we're 40 years too late for that. I gave my opinion in another thread. I was just telling the OP that multiplayer mode likely existed within the main campaign. I think you are reading way too much into Schrier's comments...given there are other interpretations I have seen and I have even advanced myself...and other interpretations I personally believe about what was going on. In theory Schrier's previous article on the matter he did report on a couple of different options of what they were thinking about...and contrary to his own claims on the matter...none of them sounded like a full MMO and mostly a SP experience. I see where you got MMO from my words, but what I meant was that single player and multiplayer mode would be combined into one, but the campaign and story would still specifically be designed for single players like any other BioWare story. well hoisted on my own patard. Acused you of reading too much into someones words, read too much into yours.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 11, 2021 4:00:30 GMT
I wonder what this development means for post-launch support for the game. Will it lead to BioWare considering adding expansions to the game (ala Awakening), or will they still stick to doing only DLC's. We already know from the BioWare 25 Anthology book that EA was against the idea of expansions, which led to Dragon Age: Exodus becoming DA2, so I wonder if this shift to letting Bio do singleplayer only also means letting them decide how they want to do post-launch content.
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