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Post by themikefest on Mar 23, 2021 21:06:07 GMT
you know i just figured out why this post bothered me so much. Ashley. ME 3. Full helmet with metal and gets it cracked almost killing her. You mean when dealing with the robot on Mars?
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 23, 2021 21:09:28 GMT
The problem with the breather masks isn't just that they're not...lore friendly, to put it that way. It's that they're also visually unappealing, to put it mildly. Besides, a toggle options for helmets fix the issues for those that prefer to look at their characters. Or, an even better solution would be to give some options in regards of the helmets/breathers for each squadmate. But given the scarcity of outfits and armours for squadmates in the series (and the absence of it in MEA), I never thought this approach was something Bioware seriously considered. I just wish they’d get more creative with it. If they can’t be bothered, I’d rather we never stepped foot in space again.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 23, 2021 21:10:41 GMT
you know i just figured out why this post bothered me so much. Ashley. ME 3. Full helmet with metal and gets it cracked almost killing her. You mean when dealing with the robot on Mars? yes.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 23, 2021 21:11:02 GMT
you know i just figured out why this post bothered me so much. Ashley. ME 3. Full helmet with metal and gets it cracked almost killing her. You mean when dealing with the robot on Mars? Yeah the VS’s injuries seem kind of weird considering they’re wearing gear that’s supposed to protect them from gunfire. I think they should have skipped that altogether.
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Post by Radec on Mar 23, 2021 21:19:08 GMT
The Andromeda helmet was poorly designed so that it could setup a death. That's because the Initiative decided to put safety at the bottom of the priority list. Then again that seems a common thing in the game. Raise your eyes as far as you can. That's as far as what the glass/plastic part of the helmet needed to go. No reason for it to go all the way to the crown of the head. Look at today. All different jobs/careers that require the use of a helmet have it down close to eyebrow level. The only exception is astronauts, and deep sea divers. Might be others I'm forgetting. As far as being able to see a characters face when they wear a helmet. Why? Does seeing their face mean/add something? As long as the helmet keeps the head protected and is sealed, it wouldn't bother me if I see their face or not. The issue is more the material, whatever it is, than the design of the visor itself. We have materials made today that can withstand these impacts without breaking, and because they aren’t glass, they’re more likely going to split and crack before big chunks of it break off. The sort of impact that would actually cause that to happen would likely have just killed the wearer anyway. It's kind of like in Star Trek 4 when a writer with a brain explains that the starship windows are made of transparent Aluminum. Then the Enterprise crashes in Star Trek Generations because a woman is piloting it I guess? The windows shatter like a thin layer of glass... because that writer didn't watch Star Trek 4. He's also didn't have a brain. Figured the windows on a spaceship would be the same ones in his house. MEA writer thought the helmet was made of glass I guess, instead of some space age metal or polymer <(this is what current spacesuit visors use)
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Post by Radec on Mar 23, 2021 21:27:41 GMT
You mean when dealing with the robot on Mars? Yeah the VS’s injuries seem kind of weird considering they’re wearing gear that’s supposed to protect them from gunfire. I think they should have skipped that altogether. It's dumb they have visible bruises, but getting a concussion or brain hemorrhaging from having your head smashed around at high G forces by a super strength robot makes enough sense. It's also ME3, so logic had already long since left the building. Liara is in the same scene walking around on the surface of Mars in a breather mask.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 21:32:31 GMT
I have seen way too much in other media where its perfectly acceptable to have the same approach to this and people gladly take it. I think Justice League falls squarely into that situation. I have no interest in watching "The Snyder Cut", but from what I am told its pure rule of cool and a director just bashing toys together for a movie. Yeah, but you can be sure that something, like, say, The Expanse, would be very careful in how it presents these things, because it operates under the pretense that much of this technology is supposed to be plausible. Even with the presence of the protomolecule, people won’t accept just being able to go out into the vacuum of space and comfortably walk around with something that exposes any part of their skin for an extended period of time. As someone who sat through all 4 hours of the Snyder Cut, I can tell you that Snyder does what he can to overindulge in that runtime. Rule of cool is part and parcel with superheroes, but its real issue is the writing. Man the dialogue is godawful lol I was a fan of Marvel/ DC on the 80/ early 90's, and I think most superhero movies really suck. The only ones I really enjoyed were Winter Soldier and the First Iron Man. And the best of them all, by far, is Logan. All the witty dialogue of Infinity War tires me. Didnt even watched Endgame. If Thanos would fight Galactus, Celestials, Love, Hate, Master Order and Lord Chaos, and Eternity itself, I would be interested.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 23, 2021 21:46:36 GMT
The issue is more the material, whatever it is, than the design of the visor itself. We have materials made today that can withstand these impacts without breaking, and because they aren’t glass, they’re more likely going to split and crack before big chunks of it break off. The sort of impact that would actually cause that to happen would likely have just killed the wearer anyway. It's kind of like in Star Trek 4 when a writer with a brain explains that the starship windows are made of transparent Aluminum. Then the Enterprise crashes in Star Trek Generations because a woman is piloting it I guess? The windows shatter like a thin layer of glass... because that writer didn't watch Star Trek 4. He's also didn't have a brain. Figured the windows on a spaceship would be the same ones in his house. MEA writer thought the helmet was made of glass I guess, instead of some space age metal or polymer <(this is what current spacesuit visors use) When I saw those windows shatter on the Enterprise in Generation, my brain basically went out for some hard liquor. I just want these people to care a little bit more. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.....but then, maybe that’s quite a tall order these days.
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Post by Radec on Mar 23, 2021 22:42:42 GMT
It's kind of like in Star Trek 4 when a writer with a brain explains that the starship windows are made of transparent Aluminum. Then the Enterprise crashes in Star Trek Generations because a woman is piloting it I guess? The windows shatter like a thin layer of glass... because that writer didn't watch Star Trek 4. He's also didn't have a brain. Figured the windows on a spaceship would be the same ones in his house. MEA writer thought the helmet was made of glass I guess, instead of some space age metal or polymer <(this is what current spacesuit visors use) When I saw those windows shatter on the Enterprise in Generation, my brain basically went out for some hard liquor. I just want these people to care a little bit more. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.....but then, maybe that’s quite a tall order these days. mine left the building when the villain's Wil-E-Coyote sun destroying rocket got from the surface of an M class planet to the sun in like 5 seconds (light takes ~8 minutes to do this) oh and they were so cheap they reused the exact same special effect of the Klingon ship blowing up from the end of the last movie. fuck you Rick Berman
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 24, 2021 0:17:04 GMT
Even if Priority: Earth wasn't fixed (and yes, it needed to be fixed), I want bonus content in the missions before that point. I think the best thing you can do for the audience is to reward them for delving the depths of your game, and reinforcing positive choices. Here are my suggestions.
I want extra missions that I could play if I keep my team alive in ME2. One for each. Tie them in with other missions in ME3, because seriously, there's a lot of missed opportunity. Feel free to mix in references to the multiplayer, like, for example, have Miranda talk about Project Phoenix.
This also ties into the Virmire Survivor, give me a mission that lets me meet either Rahna or Sarah, and have them die in the mission's conclusion. Reinforce that this war affects civilians the hardest, and they can pay the price for these horrors.
I want a bonus mission where someone like, say, Kal'Reegar, is saved because I made peace with the quarians and the geth.
I want Emily Wong to join me on my ship instead of Allers (provided I completed all of her missions in her favor)
I want a bonus mission between krogan and salarians I can only get if I keep Wrex and Eve (or a Mordin playthrough). Naturally, I'm approaching it in a different way depending on who I keep.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 24, 2021 2:00:59 GMT
Art direction is the same level of deciding when a single bullet is lethal and when you can face tank so many that you could legally be considered 20% lead. These aren’t on the same level at all. The way weapons, abilities, perks, mods, armor etc. interact with health pools function entirely on a meta level. Your character’s numerical values don’t exist as an actual part of the universe. If that was the case, we’d never accept the idea that our character can take so many hits in a hazardous environment, but then a little splash can cause a character to die in a cutscene. There’s a basic understanding that these things cannot function as a 1:1 representation of real life, because there’s a point where fun and difficulty intersect, and the former plummets because the game becomes an unplayable simulator. This doesn’t apply to the aesthetic whatsoever. It is on the same level because your entire character's look, outfits, etc is all on the metal level. We can heal with medi gel and not die in one shot because that is boring and no one likes that. Just for the same reason why the companions are in their regular outfits with rebeathers because real world of a blank faceless hard suit is boring and no one likes that. If I can get shot and not be killed by hazards even though my suit is breached and I am now venting oxygen and will die from the vacum or other poisonus atmostphere. Then the companions can walk around in their regular outfits.
No it is because we consistently apply our suspension of belief. Either the situation is realistic or it is not. If it is not realistic then does it contradict it self or does it not? As long as it doesn't contradict it self then it is fine. For example with the suit issues if they are walking around a poisonous planet without any problem there is no contradiction. If suddenly on that planet they start dying from the poison during an event or action, then it contradicts it self and it is a problem.
To the best of my knowledge there is no contradiction in any Mass Effect game both OT and Andromeda. Any effect is applied equally to everyone. Shepard/Ryder and companions are all equally effected or not effected. Which keeps the consistently as a single non main character isn't suddenly singled out to be effected by the environment.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 24, 2021 2:04:07 GMT
These aren’t on the same level at all. The way weapons, abilities, perks, mods, armor etc. interact with health pools function entirely on a meta level. Your character’s numerical values don’t exist as an actual part of the universe. If that was the case, we’d never accept the idea that our character can take so many hits in a hazardous environment, but then a little splash can cause a character to die in a cutscene. There’s a basic understanding that these things cannot function as a 1:1 representation of real life, because there’s a point where fun and difficulty intersect, and the former plummets because the game becomes an unplayable simulator. This doesn’t apply to the aesthetic whatsoever. It is on the same level because your entire character's look, outfits, etc is all on the metal level. We can heal with medi gel and not die in one shot because that is boring and no one likes that. Just for the same reason why the companions are in their regular outfits with rebeathers because real world of a blank faceless hard suit is boring and no one likes that. If I can get shot and not be killed by hazards even though my suit is breached and I am now venting oxygen and will die from the vacum or other poisonus atmostphere. Then the companions can walk around in their regular outfits.
No it is because we consistently apply our suspension of belief. Either the situation is realistic or it is not. If it is not realistic then does it contradict it self or does it not? As long as it doesn't contradict it self then it is fine. For example with the suit issues if they are walking around a poisonous planet without any problem there is no contradiction. If suddenly on that planet they start dying from the poison during an event or action, then it contradicts it self and it is a problem.
To the best of my knowledge there is no contradiction in any Mass Effect game both OT and Andromeda. Any effect is applied equally to everyone. Shepard/Ryder and companions are all equally effected or not effected. Which keeps the consistently as a single non main character isn't suddenly singled out to be effected by the environment.
well sheps suit does get breached in ME 2,Ashley in 3, and Ryder in Andromeda.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 24, 2021 2:19:32 GMT
I'll disagree with that assessment. I'm assuming there is a reason the armor is thick. A clear face plate may be tough material but it would not be in the same league as the actual armor parts. You'd just have a visual display inside a thick armor face plate. And sure, they could have done better, I am not a artist though and I am not creating piles and piles of assets. Like I said it bothered me when it came out, but with time I can see why they did it even if sure maybe there would have been a better way to accomplish their goal. OK, but to go back to the initial point, there's a happy medium where we can acknowledge that people in the Mass Effect universe require fully-sealed suits to operate in hazardous environments and the vacuum of space while being able to put our characters' faces on display for cutscenes and dialogue, but BioWare opted to swing way too far off on the rule of cool spectrum. Oh sure that would be my preference. I just think it can be in universe rationalized as something that works. Maybe stupid to do, but people do stupid things all the time. Like Jacks lack of armor i always put down to her being so arrogant about her biotics she didn't need any armor. Stupid, but so be it.
One thing this reminds me is the idiocy or barriers. I assure you I could be the most powerful biotic in the universe and if some easy tech device created a force field I'd use that on top of my barriers like in ME1, I wouldn't remove shields form my armor to flex on how cool my barriers were.
Anyways I guess I'm just saying something can be dumb, and there for rule the cool, not fit my preference and yet still fit the lore as working.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 24, 2021 2:24:07 GMT
On this subject sometimes I legitimtley wonder why I love these games so much, all four of them. So many little and big things they do wrong and yet they are still very endearing and very awesome in their own way. Some times things are on a logical level flaws but in practice positive attributes. Commando is one of my favorite movies of all time, and yet if you were to dissect it I am sure it would be riddled with flaws, but those flaws make it what it is. It is the ultimate expression of the 80s action movie one liner genre.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 13:02:12 GMT
Even if Priority: Earth wasn't fixed (and yes, it needed to be fixed), I want bonus content in the missions before that point. I think the best thing you can do for the audience is to reward them for delving the depths of your game, and reinforcing positive choices. Here are my suggestions. I want extra missions that I could play if I keep my team alive in ME2. One for each. Tie them in with other missions in ME3, because seriously, there's a lot of missed opportunity. Feel free to mix in references to the multiplayer, like, for example, have Miranda talk about Project Phoenix. This also ties into the Virmire Survivor, give me a mission that lets me meet either Rahna or Sarah, and have them die in the mission's conclusion. Reinforce that this war affects civilians the hardest, and they can pay the price for these horrors. I want a bonus mission where someone like, say, Kal'Reegar, is saved because I made peace with the quarians and the geth. I want Emily Wong to join me on my ship instead of Allers (provided I completed all of her missions in her favor) I want a bonus mission between krogan and salarians I can only get if I keep Wrex and Eve (or a Mordin playthrough). Naturally, I'm approaching it in a different way depending on who I keep. I wonder sometimes what could've been if ME3 was delayed to launch on PS4 and Xbone. Most of the complaints we have of ME3, aside from bad writing, rides on time and technical constraints, as it's a game launched on late PS3's and xbox360's life cycle. If ME3 could've been easily modded, at least PC players would have most of this complaints solved.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 24, 2021 13:12:11 GMT
It is on the same level because your entire character's look, outfits, etc is all on the metal level. We can heal with medi gel and not die in one shot because that is boring and no one likes that. Just for the same reason why the companions are in their regular outfits with rebeathers because real world of a blank faceless hard suit is boring and no one likes that. If I can get shot and not be killed by hazards even though my suit is breached and I am now venting oxygen and will die from the vacum or other poisonus atmostphere. Then the companions can walk around in their regular outfits.
No it is because we consistently apply our suspension of belief. Either the situation is realistic or it is not. If it is not realistic then does it contradict it self or does it not? As long as it doesn't contradict it self then it is fine. For example with the suit issues if they are walking around a poisonous planet without any problem there is no contradiction. If suddenly on that planet they start dying from the poison during an event or action, then it contradicts it self and it is a problem.
To the best of my knowledge there is no contradiction in any Mass Effect game both OT and Andromeda. Any effect is applied equally to everyone. Shepard/Ryder and companions are all equally effected or not effected. Which keeps the consistently as a single non main character isn't suddenly singled out to be effected by the environment.
well sheps suit does get breached in ME 2,Ashley in 3, and Ryder in Andromeda. Shep's suit gets breached when a literal ship explodes around him. This is not the same on some random exploration planet. Ryder's is the same thing after a massive fall and impact which necessitates the sacrificing of their father's life to save them. I do not remember any instance with Ash in 3 were he suit gets breached. Then again I default to Kaidan because he is far more interesting a character out of the two.
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Post by 10k on Mar 24, 2021 13:36:40 GMT
They already know all of this BW isn't stupid, They just don't want to do more work than is necessary. The remaster is first and foremost, a cash grab. The MET will sell, no matter if they fix the ending or not, and that is the most important part of why they are even doing a remaster. BW has nothing going for them as of now, besides DA4. And after Anthem, more people will be wary of what ever they put out. But not if it's the MET. People have been there and done it, and know what to expect from it. It will sell without trouble.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 24, 2021 15:00:32 GMT
Even if Priority: Earth wasn't fixed (and yes, it needed to be fixed), I want bonus content in the missions before that point. I think the best thing you can do for the audience is to reward them for delving the depths of your game, and reinforcing positive choices. Here are my suggestions. I want extra missions that I could play if I keep my team alive in ME2. One for each. Tie them in with other missions in ME3, because seriously, there's a lot of missed opportunity. Feel free to mix in references to the multiplayer, like, for example, have Miranda talk about Project Phoenix. This also ties into the Virmire Survivor, give me a mission that lets me meet either Rahna or Sarah, and have them die in the mission's conclusion. Reinforce that this war affects civilians the hardest, and they can pay the price for these horrors. I want a bonus mission where someone like, say, Kal'Reegar, is saved because I made peace with the quarians and the geth. I want Emily Wong to join me on my ship instead of Allers (provided I completed all of her missions in her favor) I want a bonus mission between krogan and salarians I can only get if I keep Wrex and Eve (or a Mordin playthrough). Naturally, I'm approaching it in a different way depending on who I keep. Hmmm... wouldn't this wishlist just about double the size of the game? I can't see anyone signing off on that budget. OTOH, I don't see any reason to buy MELE either, so maybe this plan is better.
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Post by guanxi on Mar 24, 2021 18:59:33 GMT
Even if Priority: Earth wasn't fixed (and yes, it needed to be fixed), I want bonus content in the missions before that point. I think the best thing you can do for the audience is to reward them for delving the depths of your game, and reinforcing positive choices. Here are my suggestions. I want extra missions that I could play if I keep my team alive in ME2. One for each. Tie them in with other missions in ME3, because seriously, there's a lot of missed opportunity. Feel free to mix in references to the multiplayer, like, for example, have Miranda talk about Project Phoenix. This also ties into the Virmire Survivor, give me a mission that lets me meet either Rahna or Sarah, and have them die in the mission's conclusion. Reinforce that this war affects civilians the hardest, and they can pay the price for these horrors. I want a bonus mission where someone like, say, Kal'Reegar, is saved because I made peace with the quarians and the geth. I want Emily Wong to join me on my ship instead of Allers (provided I completed all of her missions in her favor) I want a bonus mission between krogan and salarians I can only get if I keep Wrex and Eve (or a Mordin playthrough). Naturally, I'm approaching it in a different way depending on who I keep. Putting aside some of the limited budget towards original content / restoring cut content however small in scope would have injected new life into these games and generated so much more interest amongst fans and the the media IMO. At the moment there is very little to justify a re-purchase, even for console players. Perhaps they should have released separate remasters for the other games to have given them the proper treatment with more bonus material given the timeframe between now and the next Mass Effect is surely at least 4 years away and the other games seem like optional extras included for posterity at this point.
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Post by Tonymac on Mar 26, 2021 11:24:27 GMT
Even if Priority: Earth wasn't fixed (and yes, it needed to be fixed), I want bonus content in the missions before that point. I think the best thing you can do for the audience is to reward them for delving the depths of your game, and reinforcing positive choices. Here are my suggestions. I want extra missions that I could play if I keep my team alive in ME2. One for each. Tie them in with other missions in ME3, because seriously, there's a lot of missed opportunity. Feel free to mix in references to the multiplayer, like, for example, have Miranda talk about Project Phoenix. This also ties into the Virmire Survivor, give me a mission that lets me meet either Rahna or Sarah, and have them die in the mission's conclusion. Reinforce that this war affects civilians the hardest, and they can pay the price for these horrors. I want a bonus mission where someone like, say, Kal'Reegar, is saved because I made peace with the quarians and the geth. I want Emily Wong to join me on my ship instead of Allers (provided I completed all of her missions in her favor) I want a bonus mission between krogan and salarians I can only get if I keep Wrex and Eve (or a Mordin playthrough). Naturally, I'm approaching it in a different way depending on who I keep. Putting aside some of the limited budget towards original content / restoring cut content however small in scope would have injected new life into these games and generated so much more interest amongst fans and the the media IMO. At the moment there is very little to justify a re-purchase, even for console players. Perhaps they should have released separate remasters for the other games to have given them the proper treatment with more bonus material given the timeframe between now and the next Mass Effect is surely at least 4 years away and the other games seem like optional extras included for posterity at this point. What you both say makes sense. However, BioWhore is only interested in a cash grab. They want to put out the absolute minimum amount of effort. They want the lemmings to run and grab the new shiny, throwing money all of the while. I don't see this happening. Why would there be that much interest with no new content? There's STILL going to be a termi-reaper in ME2, no Legion/other character unlocks in early missions and ME3 will STILL have Priority: Earth and on with Thanix missiles and Starbrat. In reality, they are selling the same stupid games with the same stupid endings. In fact, those of us with access to the Nexus already have a better version than the MELE - at least this is my sneaking suspicion. Bonus material and/or new missions is what would have saved Mass Effect. Something beyond the minimum effort, something to spark interest. Instead, they subbed out repair work on ME1 to up-resolution it and bork with the inventory. Rest assured, they are "working hard" to make the game amazing by editing out Miri's butt. Talk about missed opportunities..... This is the point where they could have shined.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 26, 2021 14:45:33 GMT
Putting aside some of the limited budget towards original content / restoring cut content however small in scope would have injected new life into these games and generated so much more interest amongst fans and the the media IMO. At the moment there is very little to justify a re-purchase, even for console players. Perhaps they should have released separate remasters for the other games to have given them the proper treatment with more bonus material given the timeframe between now and the next Mass Effect is surely at least 4 years away and the other games seem like optional extras included for posterity at this point. What you both say makes sense. However, BioWhore is only interested in a cash grab. They want to put out the absolute minimum amount of effort. They want the lemmings to run and grab the new shiny, throwing money all of the while. I don't see this happening. Why would there be that much interest with no new content? There's STILL going to be a termi-reaper in ME2, no Legion/other character unlocks in early missions and ME3 will STILL have Priority: Earth and on with Thanix missiles and Starbrat. In reality, they are selling the same stupid games with the same stupid endings. In fact, those of us with access to the Nexus already have a better version than the MELE - at least this is my sneaking suspicion. Bonus material and/or new missions is what would have saved Mass Effect. Something beyond the minimum effort, something to spark interest. Instead, they subbed out repair work on ME1 to up-resolution it and bork with the inventory. Rest assured, they are "working hard" to make the game amazing by editing out Miri's butt. Talk about missed opportunities..... This is the point where they could have shined. I don't think people know what a cash grab is anymore. Everything seems to be a cash grab now a days. Just like people don't seem to understand the difference between a remaster and a remake. Dark Souls Remastered is an example of a remaster were they take the original game and upgrade the visual and maybe some behind the scenes upgrades but leaves fundamentally the same game. A remake is when they completely remake the game from the ground up. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is a good example as they literally remade the combat system, story, dialogue, etc. And while it still follows the same basic outline of the original FF7 you can also see the clear deviations from the original as well as the easter eggs from the original like Barret occasionally singing the victory song from the original when you win a fight.
I must say this push by the gaming community to scream cash grab about anything they personally do not like is rather depressing.
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Tonymac
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Tonycmac
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tonymac
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Tonymac on Mar 26, 2021 16:21:05 GMT
What you both say makes sense. However, BioWhore is only interested in a cash grab. They want to put out the absolute minimum amount of effort. They want the lemmings to run and grab the new shiny, throwing money all of the while. I don't see this happening. Why would there be that much interest with no new content? There's STILL going to be a termi-reaper in ME2, no Legion/other character unlocks in early missions and ME3 will STILL have Priority: Earth and on with Thanix missiles and Starbrat. In reality, they are selling the same stupid games with the same stupid endings. In fact, those of us with access to the Nexus already have a better version than the MELE - at least this is my sneaking suspicion. Bonus material and/or new missions is what would have saved Mass Effect. Something beyond the minimum effort, something to spark interest. Instead, they subbed out repair work on ME1 to up-resolution it and bork with the inventory. Rest assured, they are "working hard" to make the game amazing by editing out Miri's butt. Talk about missed opportunities..... This is the point where they could have shined. I don't think people know what a cash grab is anymore. Everything seems to be a cash grab now a days. Just like people don't seem to understand the difference between a remaster and a remake. Dark Souls Remastered is an example of a remaster were they take the original game and upgrade the visual and maybe some behind the scenes upgrades but leaves fundamentally the same game. A remake is when they completely remake the game from the ground up. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is a good example as they literally remade the combat system, story, dialogue, etc. And while it still follows the same basic outline of the original FF7 you can also see the clear deviations from the original as well as the easter eggs from the original like Barret occasionally singing the victory song from the original when you win a fight.
I must say this push by the gaming community to scream cash grab about anything they personally do not like is rather depressing.
A "cash grab" is a minimum effort activity to get people to repurchase something that they already own. For instance I don't remember how many different copies I have of the Star Wars OT. I have the originals on VHS, I have a remastered SW where clouds on Bespin can be seen where there were once drab hallways... the list goes on for a while. Basically I kept up with the different video formats and editions as they came out. (No matter how you cut it though, "Han shot first" is my stance.) My point is each edition of the Trilogy was remastered, and those remasters changed the original content with each iteration. Eventually the original was changed so much that Han didn't shoot first. Enough about StarWars, but we can admit that it made George Lucas a LOT of money - because Lucasfilm put in the effort and people bought it. Remasters can change the content, and there are differing levels of effort that can be put into said remasters. You want to put enough effort into your remaster to get people to buy it. Too little effort is where I draw the line and declare something a "cash grab". BioWare can make changes to the games. They have that ability, even though they may not want to put in the effort. That's why the whole deal about losing the source code for Pinnacle Station is a (sort of) big deal, because they can't polish it up. Personally, I like Pinnacle Station and still play it on every single playthrough. I like getting Geth Pulse Rifle X with 3 upgrade slots, and I ALWAYS equip one on Tali'Zorah as an inside joke. It makes meeting her on Freedom's Progress that much more special. If I owned BioWare, I would make the Mass Effect Legendary Edition truly legendary. I would change those endings, for absolutely sure. I'd change the Termi-Reaper in ME2 into something a little less awful and lore breaking. In all honesty I'd remaster ME1 and 2 and remake ME3 entirely. Come to think of it, it would be smarter to remake ME3 first, and to make the L.E. (remaster) after that. People used to love Mass Effect, and by extension BioWare. ME3 changed all of that. BioWare changed, too. Andromeda and Anthem are proof enough. This franchise could be re-ignited, just like Malkua's song said that it could. The question is, can BioWare do it?
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 26, 2021 17:33:59 GMT
You kind of got to the point when you mention that your work on a ME3 remake first and on the LE afterward. The trilogy isn’t a single game, and it shouldn’t be compared to remastered and remakes of a single game. The aumont of work on the trilogy, if they were to overhaul it completely (for example, ME wouldn’t get only a graphic overhaul, as they did, but also a gameplay overhaul) would be massive, and if BioWare would be in charge to that, it’d take the vast majority of their workforce and years to finish it. While I don’t like SE‘s approach, there’s a reason why a long JRPG like FF VII requires that much time and work compared for a game like RE 2.
Now, EA is in charge of any decision, and if they wanted, and thought it was worth the effort, I think they could’ve gone to another studio to make them work on the LE, or full remakes of single ME games (I think that would’ve been more likely then them making BioWare do that, because it’d mean that they wouldn’t work on anything other then the remakes for years). I think this was never really in the discussion, for the sheer aumont of time and resources needed for this kind of project.
I don’t think the LE is necessarily bad as an idea, and it can be moderately successful and introduce new players to the franchise. The problem, aside the endings causing the same divide in new players as it did years ago, is that if NME has loose ties with the trilogy, it’ll be harder to make the new players invested in it. But NME has problems in general to the, possibly, false impression generated by the teaser.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 26, 2021 18:58:43 GMT
I don't think people know what a cash grab is anymore. Everything seems to be a cash grab now a days. Just like people don't seem to understand the difference between a remaster and a remake. Dark Souls Remastered is an example of a remaster were they take the original game and upgrade the visual and maybe some behind the scenes upgrades but leaves fundamentally the same game. A remake is when they completely remake the game from the ground up. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is a good example as they literally remade the combat system, story, dialogue, etc. And while it still follows the same basic outline of the original FF7 you can also see the clear deviations from the original as well as the easter eggs from the original like Barret occasionally singing the victory song from the original when you win a fight.
I must say this push by the gaming community to scream cash grab about anything they personally do not like is rather depressing.
A "cash grab" is a minimum effort activity to get people to repurchase something that they already own. For instance I don't remember how many different copies I have of the Star Wars OT. I have the originals on VHS, I have a remastered SW where clouds on Bespin can be seen where there were once drab hallways... the list goes on for a while. Basically I kept up with the different video formats and editions as they came out. (No matter how you cut it though, "Han shot first" is my stance.) My point is each edition of the Trilogy was remastered, and those remasters changed the original content with each iteration. Eventually the original was changed so much that Han didn't shoot first. Enough about StarWars, but we can admit that it made George Lucas a LOT of money - because Lucasfilm put in the effort and people bought it. Remasters can change the content, and there are differing levels of effort that can be put into said remasters. You want to put enough effort into your remaster to get people to buy it. Too little effort is where I draw the line and declare something a "cash grab". BioWare can make changes to the games. They have that ability, even though they may not want to put in the effort. That's why the whole deal about losing the source code for Pinnacle Station is a (sort of) big deal, because they can't polish it up. Personally, I like Pinnacle Station and still play it on every single playthrough. I like getting Geth Pulse Rifle X with 3 upgrade slots, and I ALWAYS equip one on Tali'Zorah as an inside joke. It makes meeting her on Freedom's Progress that much more special. If I owned BioWare, I would make the Mass Effect Legendary Edition truly legendary. I would change those endings, for absolutely sure. I'd change the Termi-Reaper in ME2 into something a little less awful and lore breaking. In all honesty I'd remaster ME1 and 2 and remake ME3 entirely. Come to think of it, it would be smarter to remake ME3 first, and to make the L.E. (remaster) after that. People used to love Mass Effect, and by extension BioWare. ME3 changed all of that. BioWare changed, too. Andromeda and Anthem are proof enough. This franchise could be re-ignited, just like Malkua's song said that it could. The question is, can BioWare do it? I will say this much, had BioWare done more than just spit-polish and tweak the game and actually dared to make some story changes, I would have been infinitely more intrigued to get something different than tread over all the same ground with a new pair of glasses. I never really understood all the hype around it. It’s nice to be able to play the game on newer consoles, but if it’s all the same exact stories 1:1, swell I guess.
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Post by Radec on Mar 26, 2021 19:52:04 GMT
A "cash grab" is a minimum effort activity to get people to repurchase something that they already own. For instance I don't remember how many different copies I have of the Star Wars OT. I have the originals on VHS, I have a remastered SW where clouds on Bespin can be seen where there were once drab hallways... the list goes on for a while. Basically I kept up with the different video formats and editions as they came out. (No matter how you cut it though, "Han shot first" is my stance.) My point is each edition of the Trilogy was remastered, and those remasters changed the original content with each iteration. Eventually the original was changed so much that Han didn't shoot first. Enough about StarWars, but we can admit that it made George Lucas a LOT of money - because Lucasfilm put in the effort and people bought it. Remasters can change the content, and there are differing levels of effort that can be put into said remasters. You want to put enough effort into your remaster to get people to buy it. Too little effort is where I draw the line and declare something a "cash grab". BioWare can make changes to the games. They have that ability, even though they may not want to put in the effort. That's why the whole deal about losing the source code for Pinnacle Station is a (sort of) big deal, because they can't polish it up. Personally, I like Pinnacle Station and still play it on every single playthrough. I like getting Geth Pulse Rifle X with 3 upgrade slots, and I ALWAYS equip one on Tali'Zorah as an inside joke. It makes meeting her on Freedom's Progress that much more special. If I owned BioWare, I would make the Mass Effect Legendary Edition truly legendary. I would change those endings, for absolutely sure. I'd change the Termi-Reaper in ME2 into something a little less awful and lore breaking. In all honesty I'd remaster ME1 and 2 and remake ME3 entirely. Come to think of it, it would be smarter to remake ME3 first, and to make the L.E. (remaster) after that. People used to love Mass Effect, and by extension BioWare. ME3 changed all of that. BioWare changed, too. Andromeda and Anthem are proof enough. This franchise could be re-ignited, just like Malkua's song said that it could. The question is, can BioWare do it? I will say this much, had BioWare done more than just spit-polish and tweak the game and actually dared to make some story changes, I would have been infinitely more intrigued to get something different than tread over all the same ground with a new pair of glasses. I never really understood all the hype around it. It’s nice to be able to play the game on newer consoles, but if it’s all the same exact stories 1:1, swell I guess. They could have, at the very minimum, restored a bunch of cut content that is already in the files (M/M Kaidan from ME1, the more open ended recruitment in ME2 where you get all the dossiers at the beginning and recruit in any order, loads of stuff from ME3), that doesn't alter the plot. Some of it needed fixing up and debugging, but that's at least a little bit of actual work and would've given players a bit more content to chew on. Would've garnered my interest at least, if say Ashley got her much needed dialogue scenes back (she's barely a character in ME3) and a few ignored ME2 squaddies got more content. Nope, change the lighting, move the ass cam up a tick, done. So it pretty much is a lazy cash grab. There are plenty of things they could've fixed (many of which were cut due to running out of time, not artistic choices) that, contrary to their banal "artistic integrity" excuse, wouldn't have changed the narrative or themes, merely added context that is often desperately needed. Edit: Also, put ME3MP back in FFS. It's pretty much the only thing good about that game and its getting left out for reasons of laziness
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