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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 2, 2021 17:14:31 GMT
1) Andromeda had support for six months they patched the game and improved it to the point it should have been at launch. What it didn't have was post-launch content. According to the Schreier article, most of the Montreal studio was let go and what wasn't, was slowly transferred to Motive. It is natural that, after a launch, a lot of contracted employees are let go, as in their contract doesn't get renewed, but from the article it seems that people were simply allowed to finish the work they didn't get to, until the game's launch and then moved to Motive, as soon as their work was done. So that is support, regardless, but ... well, most of the problems are still there. The game still has major issues. Not that it's unplayable, or that it was unplayable even at launch, but it does have a lot of "sloppiness" still. It is, by no means, fine. And it did actually get post launch content. The reworking of Hainly Abrams and Jaal's same sex romance. It's not substantial, but it exists. 2) Its not basic observation for there are plenty of people that liked Andromeda and again you have only seen a segment of the people that played the game talking about it online. Unless you have some magic survey that contacted a diverse population of people that played the game and not just those that post online. That depends. Do you think that the people that liked Andromeda outnumber the people that didn't like it? Do you think they are split down the middle? Do you think Andromeda made enough new fans to compensate for the ones that it lost? Personally, I don't think so. 3) You do not know it wasn't a success you are assuming that based on a couple of pieces of information that your feelings about the game are true. Come on now. The games were largely panned by virtually every media publication out there and user score is not good by any means. If you want to positive review bomb in at Metacritic, en masse, if you think the game has been wronged, go right ahead. 4) You hated the game great, but it doesn't mean your interpterion of limited information or what you consider to be a success or failure to be accurate to the standards that EA has internally. It made half of EA's expected sales numbers at launch. It is a failure, internally. Every metric and all the data available to us puts Andromeda's sales at launch to have been around the 1.5m copies sold mark. EA had their projections to be at 3m. Now, 1.5m copies sold for a game isn't bad. But not when it's a big budget EA game, a AAA segment title, a Mass Effect game and a Bioware game. In comparison, Anthem in the same timeframe, sold ~3.3m copies. Of course, Anthem wasn't targeted at the same audience as Andromeda and as a result, the RPG crowd was already mad at them and now the shooter crowd is also mad at them. My personal feeling of Andromeda is that it is an "okay game" I have played better, but I have played worse and I will never claim its a perfect game or that it doesn't have major problems. So don't assume my feelings on something just because I disagree with the internet narrative. It is, more or less, a 7/10 game. It's OK. It's flawed, with a lot of questionable literary and design decisions in its design. It's biggest problem is that, to a lot of people, it failed to generate that bonding that the Milky Way crews had managed to do. Maybe ME1 benefited from a time that gaming was smaller, there is a 10 year gap between ME1 and ME:A after all, that it was at the start of the PS3/X360 gen and what few early adopters were there, were blown away by it, which helped its reputation a lot, but no matter the reason, Andromeda wasn't the new start for ME that it needed to be. It is a questionable, divisive title and certainly not the title that would help the franchise get over the ME3 debacle. The Will Continue trailer is a testament that it just isn't a viable future, even according to Bioware themselves.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2021 21:37:49 GMT
I’ll say this much. For any of Andromeda’s inherent issues, this new game already has a ton of them even while it’s still a glimmer in the writers’ eyes. I came to terms with the shitshow of the endings a while back, thanks in part to the extended cut, and can at least reconcile a few story details now that it’s no longer bafflingly abrupt after some cornball Garden of Eden imagery. Since this game is actively undoing all of that by establishing some form of canon, it has quite a lot it needs to accomplish, or I guess I can just cozy up with my good friend Apathy and at least get some entertainment by how much people hate this new game too.
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cribbian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 887 Likes: 2,364
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259
0
2,364
cribbian
887
August 2016
cribbian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by cribbian on Apr 3, 2021 8:00:41 GMT
I'm fine with wichever galaxy. I do want a new protagonist though.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Posts: 5,908 Likes: 8,941
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1561
0
8,941
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,908
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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882
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2021 12:45:55 GMT
1) Andromeda had support for six months they patched the game and improved it to the point it should have been at launch. What it didn't have was post-launch content. According to the Schreier article, most of the Montreal studio was let go and what wasn't, was slowly transferred to Motive. It is natural that, after a launch, a lot of contracted employees are let go, as in their contract doesn't get renewed, but from the article it seems that people were simply allowed to finish the work they didn't get to, until the game's launch and then moved to Motive, as soon as their work was done. So that is support, regardless, but ... well, most of the problems are still there. The game still has major issues. Not that it's unplayable, or that it was unplayable even at launch, but it does have a lot of "sloppiness" still. It is, by no means, fine. And it did actually get post launch content. The reworking of Hainly Abrams and Jaal's same sex romance. It's not substantial, but it exists. 2) Its not basic observation for there are plenty of people that liked Andromeda and again you have only seen a segment of the people that played the game talking about it online. Unless you have some magic survey that contacted a diverse population of people that played the game and not just those that post online. That depends. Do you think that the people that liked Andromeda outnumber the people that didn't like it? Do you think they are split down the middle? Do you think Andromeda made enough new fans to compensate for the ones that it lost? Personally, I don't think so. 3) You do not know it wasn't a success you are assuming that based on a couple of pieces of information that your feelings about the game are true. Come on now. The games were largely panned by virtually every media publication out there and user score is not good by any means. If you want to positive review bomb in at Metacritic, en masse, if you think the game has been wronged, go right ahead. 4) You hated the game great, but it doesn't mean your interpterion of limited information or what you consider to be a success or failure to be accurate to the standards that EA has internally. It made half of EA's expected sales numbers at launch. It is a failure, internally. Every metric and all the data available to us puts Andromeda's sales at launch to have been around the 1.5m copies sold mark. EA had their projections to be at 3m. Now, 1.5m copies sold for a game isn't bad. But not when it's a big budget EA game, a AAA segment title, a Mass Effect game and a Bioware game. In comparison, Anthem in the same timeframe, sold ~3.3m copies. Of course, Anthem wasn't targeted at the same audience as Andromeda and as a result, the RPG crowd was already mad at them and now the shooter crowd is also mad at them. My personal feeling of Andromeda is that it is an "okay game" I have played better, but I have played worse and I will never claim its a perfect game or that it doesn't have major problems. So don't assume my feelings on something just because I disagree with the internet narrative. It is, more or less, a 7/10 game. It's OK. It's flawed, with a lot of questionable literary and design decisions in its design. It's biggest problem is that, to a lot of people, it failed to generate that bonding that the Milky Way crews had managed to do. Maybe ME1 benefited from a time that gaming was smaller, there is a 10 year gap between ME1 and ME:A after all, that it was at the start of the PS3/X360 gen and what few early adopters were there, were blown away by it, which helped its reputation a lot, but no matter the reason, Andromeda wasn't the new start for ME that it needed to be. It is a questionable, divisive title and certainly not the title that would help the franchise get over the ME3 debacle. The Will Continue trailer is a testament that it just isn't a viable future, even according to Bioware themselves. To your point about most people being laid off, please link the article for the ones I have found are talking about merging the two studios with nothing about the majority being laid off it was a merger of the two studios. Example ArticleThis is the one article I can find from Schreier and it doesn't mention it either. Kotaku Article. Now it doesn't say numbers one way or the other, but knowing the tone I see in most articles if the majority had been laid off it would have been mentioned. As far as numbers its the magic thing that keeps falling into my argument of "we don't know, so don't assume". You could be right, but at the same time you could be wrong. Its the stance that I am correct and everyone hated the game is where I take issue. Just because something is panned by the media or there is that kind of outrage again doesn't mean its a universal truth. Why is it with BioWare games that the bad animations and problems are called out, but other games problems like that are ignored (see Assassin's Creed: Valhalla). Its why I don't care what online critics or articles say for they are not consistent so you cannot judge based on their comments at least for me because they aren't consistent in any way. To me using the media to justify someone's opinion doesn't work for look at Mass Effect 3 where there was such media backlash for people liking the game with comments along "they were bought off" just because the media didn't agree with the players. So I don't know what narrative people want to spin here, the media cannot be trusted or the media proves my point. Again which numbers are you talking about for sales. Just because launch numbers were low you can make the argument it didn't meet those projections of how the game will sell in three months, but it doesn't mean it was a failure either. There are multiple goals for projects. Going by my own experiences those numbers about four million in units sold is a mathematical calculation where they take all kinds of different factors such as how ME32 sold, Twitter comments, Player engagement, press interest, and all kinds of other things that drive up that speculation. So yes Andromeda almost likely didn't meet that goal. The problem is there can be other goals internally as well such as did the game recoup its cost, did it make twice that, did it meet the minimum we expect to see on a return (such as doubling their investment). Those kind of failure points we don't know. So if the arguement is that Andromeda probably didn't meet its projected sales then I can see that, but just throwing around complete failure or that everyone can agree that it was a universal failure is where I disagree for as I keep saying we don't know those numbers. The thing about the AAA those sales numbers really matter in the context as well. Andromeda only cost approximately $80 million USD ($100 million CDN) to make at the time with 100 people in the studio. So they didn't need the three, five, or six million projected sales to do well internally. It just boils down to what the internet wants to make of it.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
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634
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May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,055
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,884
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 3, 2021 13:21:52 GMT
Just because something is panned by the media or there is that kind of outrage again doesn't mean its a universal truth. Why is it with BioWare games that the bad animations and problems are called out, but other games problems like that are ignored (see Assassin's Creed: Valhalla). Its why I don't care what online critics or articles say for they are not consistent so you cannot judge based on their comments at least for me because they aren't consistent in any way. To me using the media to justify someone's opinion doesn't work for look at Mass Effect 3 where there was such media backlash for people liking the game with comments along "they were bought off" just because the media didn't agree with the players. So I don't know what narrative people want to spin here, the media cannot be trusted or the media proves my point.
The same is true with all media, I mean there so many critically panned movies were huge blockbusters and critically acclaimed movies were box office flops in the past 10-20 years that it's stupid when fans of the next *place big blockbuster title here* get bent out of shape when critics don't like the movie even though there is a pretty good chance that said movie will be a huge hit regardless if the critics love or hate the movie.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 3, 2021 13:36:37 GMT
To your point about most people being laid off, please link the article for the ones I have found are talking about merging the two studios with nothing about the majority being laid off it was a merger of the two studios. Example ArticleThis is the one article I can find from Schreier and it doesn't mention it either. Kotaku Article. Now it doesn't say numbers one way or the other, but knowing the tone I see in most articles if the majority had been laid off it would have been mentioned. Most big projects, once wrapped up, lay off a number of employees. This isn't permanent Montreal personnel, in this case. They were temp hires that simply didn't get their contracts renewed, after, because, as the game wasn't in the scope of something like Destiny, simply wouldn't be needed. It's not something unique to Montreal. Edmonton did the same thing with a number of employees, after ME3. Manveer Heir, for example, was one of the contracted employees who didn't get his contract renewed and the lady they had for lead animator in Andromeda as well. If I recall, a few days after Andromeda launch, Manveer was no longer working for Bioware, anymore. This isn't news, that's simply how these projects work. Not everybody from Montreal moved to Motive and when I say that, I mean the contracted hires that simply didn't get an extension to their contracts. I don't have a specific number on how many of those there were, but for most AAA studios, it's pretty high, from 30% to 50% of the project's size. If we could go, name by name, from the ME:A credits to their linkedin profiles, we'd find a similar ratio, I expect, as most other AAA projects. This isn't news, it's just how the industry works. As far as numbers its the magic thing that keeps falling into my argument of "we don't know, so don't assume". You could be right, but at the same time you could be wrong. Its the stance that I am correct and everyone hated the game is where I take issue. Obviously not everyone hated the game, but virtually, they might as well. Public opinion is not positive, as far as Andromeda goes. Do you think there aren't people that liked Anthem? Do you think there weren't people there that wanted Anthem Next? It simply wasn't a viable product. The fanbase there, wasn't the one the game needed to be viable. People keep talking about Bioware's and EA's data and how that proves that Andromeda was a success. Where was that data when EA decided to not provide substantial story content in-game for Andromeda and closed the studio down? It looks like, to me, especially from the Schreier article, that while Montreal expected to get the internal EA meeting to be about green lighting the budget for that, but instead it was about their survival, after opening sales. Which is why the merger took 6 months to complete and why what was left of Montreal was so slowly integrated into Motive. Unlike what other users are claiming, it doesn't look like the merge was planned months in advance. It was decided post launch and from there, a slow rollout was executed. And while people could argue that none of the above need be true for Montreal, there are two exceptions to the rule, back to back, on how the industry typically works, that makes it highly unlikely that EA treats Bioware Montreal uniquely different to how every publisher treats every other studio on the planet. Just because something is panned by the media or there is that kind of outrage again doesn't mean its a universal truth. Why is it with BioWare games that the bad animations and problems are called out, but other games problems like that are ignored (see Assassin's Creed: Valhalla). Its why I don't care what online critics or articles say for they are not consistent so you cannot judge based on their comments at least for me because they aren't consistent in any way. To me using the media to justify someone's opinion doesn't work for look at Mass Effect 3 where there was such media backlash for people liking the game with comments along "they were bought off" just because the media didn't agree with the players. So I don't know what narrative people want to spin here, the media cannot be trusted or the media proves my point. It matters because it shapes and sways public opinion. We're not talking about objectivity or even subjectivity here. At the AAA level, what matters is the collective opinion, there is no room for individualism. I can make an argument that, through technological progress, ME:A making the same mistakes that ME1 did, 10 years prior, due to lack of tools, software and hardware advancement, when it was that much worse 10 years earlier, is inexcusable. ME1, during its time, was considered an average to high quality title. The same game, made with the same problems, 10 years later, when the entire industry has grown past such problems, yes, it would be an equal quality game to Andromeda. To put it another way, you can compare Uncharted to Rick Dangerous and make all the complaints about how Rick Dangerous looks outdated, its gameplay is simplistic and how its controls are convoluted, with bad gameplay design and limited visibility of the stages, that rely too much on memorizing paths, before you are even able to get to them, while Uncharted does this, that and the other so much better. Each game is a product of its time, is viewed as such and, by that standard, all modern games are unplayable shite, because by 2079, I will have Miranda Lawson give me a simulated handjob through my VR headset. That's just an absurd standard. Again which numbers are you talking about for sales. Just because launch numbers were low you can make the argument it didn't meet those projections of how the game will sell in three months, but it doesn't mean it was a failure either. There are multiple goals for projects. Going by my own experiences those numbers about four million in units sold is a mathematical calculation where they take all kinds of different factors such as how ME32 sold, Twitter comments, Player engagement, press interest, and all kinds of other things that drive up that speculation. So yes Andromeda almost likely didn't meet that goal. The problem is there can be other goals internally as well such as did the game recoup its cost, did it make twice that, did it meet the minimum we expect to see on a return (such as doubling their investment). Those kind of failure points we don't know. So if the arguement is that Andromeda probably didn't meet its projected sales then I can see that, but just throwing around complete failure or that everyone can agree that it was a universal failure is where I disagree for as I keep saying we don't know those numbers. The numbers of EA's quarterly financial call, during Andromeda's launch. They made $150m US in full HD game sales revenue. Not net revenue, just revenue. Which means that all of EA's games, for that quarter, including FIFA, MADDEN, Andromeda and all other games in EA's portfolio, if at an average price, adjusted for special editions, of $70, had EA sold Andromeda alone, it would have sold just over two million copies. But they weren't selling Andromeda alone. Analysts, tracking and game sales of other EA titles during that period, put Andromeda's sales at around 1.5m copies sold. What deviation there could be, is insubstantial. The end result is that in its release window, Andromeda didn't recoup it's budget by a few to several million $US. We've had this conversation a number of times, I've cited the articles, I'm tired of going over old points at least five times, with each person defending Andromeda's performance. The thing about the AAA those sales numbers really matter in the context as well. Andromeda only cost approximately $80 million USD ($100 million CDN) to make at the time with 100 people in the studio. So they didn't need the three, five, or six million projected sales to do well internally. It just boils down to what the internet wants to make of it. Adjusting CAD for USD at 2013-207 range, Andromeda's budget comes closer to $73m-75m US with net revenue from Andromeda coming at around $63m-68m US for Andromeda's opening quarter. I've researched this shit really, really hard.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,908 Likes: 8,941
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1561
0
8,941
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,908
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2021 23:04:54 GMT
To your point about most people being laid off, please link the article for the ones I have found are talking about merging the two studios with nothing about the majority being laid off it was a merger of the two studios. Example ArticleThis is the one article I can find from Schreier and it doesn't mention it either. Kotaku Article. Now it doesn't say numbers one way or the other, but knowing the tone I see in most articles if the majority had been laid off it would have been mentioned. Most big projects, once wrapped up, lay off a number of employees. This isn't permanent Montreal personnel, in this case. They were temp hires that simply didn't get their contracts renewed, after, because, as the game wasn't in the scope of something like Destiny, simply wouldn't be needed. It's not something unique to Montreal. Edmonton did the same thing with a number of employees, after ME3. Manveer Heir, for example, was one of the contracted employees who didn't get his contract renewed and the lady they had for lead animator in Andromeda as well. If I recall, a few days after Andromeda launch, Manveer was no longer working for Bioware, anymore. This isn't news, that's simply how these projects work. Not everybody from Montreal moved to Motive and when I say that, I mean the contracted hires that simply didn't get an extension to their contracts. I don't have a specific number on how many of those there were, but for most AAA studios, it's pretty high, from 30% to 50% of the project's size. If we could go, name by name, from the ME:A credits to their linkedin profiles, we'd find a similar ratio, I expect, as most other AAA projects. This isn't news, it's just how the industry works. As far as numbers its the magic thing that keeps falling into my argument of "we don't know, so don't assume". You could be right, but at the same time you could be wrong. Its the stance that I am correct and everyone hated the game is where I take issue. Obviously not everyone hated the game, but virtually, they might as well. Public opinion is not positive, as far as Andromeda goes. Do you think there aren't people that liked Anthem? Do you think there weren't people there that wanted Anthem Next? It simply wasn't a viable product. The fanbase there, wasn't the one the game needed to be viable. People keep talking about Bioware's and EA's data and how that proves that Andromeda was a success. Where was that data when EA decided to not provide substantial story content in-game for Andromeda and closed the studio down? It looks like, to me, especially from the Schreier article, that while Montreal expected to get the internal EA meeting to be about green lighting the budget for that, but instead it was about their survival, after opening sales. Which is why the merger took 6 months to complete and why what was left of Montreal was so slowly integrated into Motive. Unlike what other users are claiming, it doesn't look like the merge was planned months in advance. It was decided post launch and from there, a slow rollout was executed. And while people could argue that none of the above need be true for Montreal, there are two exceptions to the rule, back to back, on how the industry typically works, that makes it highly unlikely that EA treats Bioware Montreal uniquely different to how every publisher treats every other studio on the planet. Just because something is panned by the media or there is that kind of outrage again doesn't mean its a universal truth. Why is it with BioWare games that the bad animations and problems are called out, but other games problems like that are ignored (see Assassin's Creed: Valhalla). Its why I don't care what online critics or articles say for they are not consistent so you cannot judge based on their comments at least for me because they aren't consistent in any way. To me using the media to justify someone's opinion doesn't work for look at Mass Effect 3 where there was such media backlash for people liking the game with comments along "they were bought off" just because the media didn't agree with the players. So I don't know what narrative people want to spin here, the media cannot be trusted or the media proves my point. It matters because it shapes and sways public opinion. We're not talking about objectivity or even subjectivity here. At the AAA level, what matters is the collective opinion, there is no room for individualism. I can make an argument that, through technological progress, ME:A making the same mistakes that ME1 did, 10 years prior, due to lack of tools, software and hardware advancement, when it was that much worse 10 years earlier, is inexcusable. ME1, during its time, was considered an average to high quality title. The same game, made with the same problems, 10 years later, when the entire industry has grown past such problems, yes, it would be an equal quality game to Andromeda. To put it another way, you can compare Uncharted to Rick Dangerous and make all the complaints about how Rick Dangerous looks outdated, its gameplay is simplistic and how its controls are convoluted, with bad gameplay design and limited visibility of the stages, that rely too much on memorizing paths, before you are even able to get to them, while Uncharted does this, that and the other so much better. Each game is a product of its time, is viewed as such and, by that standard, all modern games are unplayable shite, because by 2079, I will have Miranda Lawson give me a simulated handjob through my VR headset. That's just an absurd standard. Again which numbers are you talking about for sales. Just because launch numbers were low you can make the argument it didn't meet those projections of how the game will sell in three months, but it doesn't mean it was a failure either. There are multiple goals for projects. Going by my own experiences those numbers about four million in units sold is a mathematical calculation where they take all kinds of different factors such as how ME32 sold, Twitter comments, Player engagement, press interest, and all kinds of other things that drive up that speculation. So yes Andromeda almost likely didn't meet that goal. The problem is there can be other goals internally as well such as did the game recoup its cost, did it make twice that, did it meet the minimum we expect to see on a return (such as doubling their investment). Those kind of failure points we don't know. So if the arguement is that Andromeda probably didn't meet its projected sales then I can see that, but just throwing around complete failure or that everyone can agree that it was a universal failure is where I disagree for as I keep saying we don't know those numbers. The numbers of EA's quarterly financial call, during Andromeda's launch. They made $150m US in full HD game sales revenue. Not net revenue, just revenue. Which means that all of EA's games, for that quarter, including FIFA, MADDEN, Andromeda and all other games in EA's portfolio, if at an average price, adjusted for special editions, of $70, had EA sold Andromeda alone, it would have sold just over two million copies. But they weren't selling Andromeda alone. Analysts, tracking and game sales of other EA titles during that period, put Andromeda's sales at around 1.5m copies sold. What deviation there could be, is insubstantial. The end result is that in its release window, Andromeda didn't recoup it's budget by a few to several million $US. We've had this conversation a number of times, I've cited the articles, I'm tired of going over old points at least five times, with each person defending Andromeda's performance. The thing about the AAA those sales numbers really matter in the context as well. Andromeda only cost approximately $80 million USD ($100 million CDN) to make at the time with 100 people in the studio. So they didn't need the three, five, or six million projected sales to do well internally. It just boils down to what the internet wants to make of it. Adjusting CAD for USD at 2013-207 range, Andromeda's budget comes closer to $73m-75m US with net revenue from Andromeda coming at around $63m-68m US for Andromeda's opening quarter. I've researched this shit really, really hard. I knew that, just reading your post I responded to made it sound like EA closed the studio and didn't bother keeping anyone. For that is a narrative people want to comment each time EA closes a studio is that they didn't bother keeping anyone. If what you claim about virtual opinions meaning anything then games like The Last of Us Part 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 shouldn't have done nearly as well as they did. There was some hit because the online discourse will drive some people's opinions, but it seems the majority of the time its more about their first hand experience regardless of what people online are claiming. I think it still falls into that category of 5/15/80 where that 80% doesn't care what the internet thinks. So yes the conversation of that 5% might impact that 15%, so its not insignificant, but it still isn't the majority. What I am seeing is comparisons between current generation of hardware not games that are not years apart. So more like Uncharted compared to the Tomb Raider reboot series. Again, I am not saying that Andromeda did the best. I just don't think it was a "bomb", "absolute failure" or "lost money" especially if your analysis is accurate for my information is just from the reporting on when Aaryn Flynn was proposing the Alberta government to ask for tax breaks for game development. It probably squeaked into an area that wasn't impressive, but didn't hurt the company either. Now I am not exactly sure if the numbers you are reporting also take into the $53 million that EA deferred to Q1 quarter for Andromeda from premium editions alone from the transcript of the 2017 Q4 report. So that does help boost the stance of the game if it wasn't taken into consideration and the other thing is MTX and how well they did which is a drop in the bucket compared to Ultimate Teams, but it might have edged Andromeda higher.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 4, 2021 12:13:56 GMT
If what you claim about virtual opinions meaning anything then games like The Last of Us Part 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 shouldn't have done nearly as well as they did. Well, Anthem is Bioware's second best selling game ever. And TLoU2 had a lot of people going in, not knowing what had happened. It came from a very loved, very trusted studio and reviews were just overwhelmingly positive. And it sold great at launch. That's about it. All reports show that after the first 5 days, sales for TLoU2 tanked and it was on bargain bins by the end of its first month. Not to mention, it also had a high number of returns. What you will see from TLoU2, is that it will also impact sales of future Naughty Dog game sales. The same goes for Cyberpunk. There was some hit because the online discourse will drive some people's opinions, but it seems the majority of the time its more about their first hand experience regardless of what people online are claiming. I think it still falls into that category of 5/15/80 where that 80% doesn't care what the internet thinks. So yes the conversation of that 5% might impact that 15%, so its not insignificant, but it still isn't the majority. I disagree. I see the marketing hype machine working a lot less effectively for studios with bad reputation. People got burnt by Naughty Dog, by CDPR and by Bioware. How many "divisive" titles has Bioware had over the past 10 years? Anthem had the luxury of not addressing people that usually played Bioware games, an entire new audience, that they failed to capture and even then, for the genre, for the marketing push, the ~3.3m copies that it sold in its first 6 weeks, barely made it break even. And that was only because it sold really well digitally. Now I am not exactly sure if the numbers you are reporting also take into the $53 million that EA deferred to Q1 quarter It is from the Q1 financial call.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 6, 2021 18:21:20 GMT
People got burnt by Naughty Dog, by CDPR and by Bioware. This I like. I don't have a huge issue with these studios. However, I remember how much people claimed that CDPR was the Second Coming and that CP77 was going to blow them all away. Then the game came out. Great studios can put out terrible product, especially if they ride on their reputation rather than quality.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 6, 2021 18:30:42 GMT
This I like. I don't have a huge issue with these studios. However, I remember how much people claimed that CDPR was the Second Coming and that CP77 was going to blow them all away. Then the game came out. Great studios can put out terrible product, especially if they ride on their reputation rather than quality. I'd mention Bethesda as well, but everyone that expects a bug free release from Bethesda, that doesn't rely on modders to fix it, since Oblivion, at the very least, is deluded. But at least Bethesda provides people with the tools to fix their games with. Except Fallout 76. And I don't need to remind anyone how that went. Surprisingly, it's more successful than Anthem, but Fallout was a bigger franchise than Anthem could hope to be and Bethesda was in good standing. Not to say that this didn't fuck Bethesda rep up by quite a bit, but at least they kept working on it and it's in a much better place now.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 7, 2021 1:42:08 GMT
This I like. I don't have a huge issue with these studios. However, I remember how much people claimed that CDPR was the Second Coming and that CP77 was going to blow them all away. Then the game came out. Great studios can put out terrible product, especially if they ride on their reputation rather than quality. I'd mention Bethesda as well, but everyone that expects a bug free release from Bethesda, that doesn't rely on modders to fix it, since Oblivion, at the very least, is deluded. But at least Bethesda provides people with the tools to fix their games with. Except Fallout 76. And I don't need to remind anyone how that went. Surprisingly, it's more successful than Anthem, but Fallout was a bigger franchise than Anthem could hope to be and Bethesda was in good standing. Not to say that this didn't fuck Bethesda rep up by quite a bit, but at least they kept working on it and it's in a much better place now. I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 7, 2021 2:36:00 GMT
I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive. I was under the impression, just like with Skyrim, that a lot of people wanted to go about the vast and endless wasteland with a friend, clear dungeons, get loot, join factions, etc. Kinda like TESO, but more co-op than MMO.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 7, 2021 3:43:46 GMT
I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive. I was under the impression, just like with Skyrim, that a lot of people wanted to go about the vast and endless wasteland with a friend, clear dungeons, get loot, join factions, etc. Kinda like TESO, but more co-op than MMO. There’s always going to be a market for that sort of thing, but a lot of people were also very concerned. When Todd Howard said “Make your own fun”, my anticipation for the game was dragged behind the shed and shot right then and there.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 7, 2021 15:06:01 GMT
Why not the option that we're apparently getting, which is to somehow link the two galaxies?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 7, 2021 15:09:52 GMT
There’s always going to be a market for that sort of thing, but a lot of people were also very concerned. When Todd Howard said “Make your own fun”, my anticipation for the game was dragged behind the shed and shot right then and there. I played TESO for a while but it overall didn't appeal to me. I'm an SP kind of guy. I can play SWTOR easily on my own. Not so with TESO. That makes it a pass for me and also why I have no interest in Fallout 76. I can also play DCU Online (which is kind of lackluster) and The Secret World (which is eh) but my limits of MMO are significant. If they forced it into a game series I love they'd ruin it for me.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 7, 2021 15:17:44 GMT
This I like. I don't have a huge issue with these studios. However, I remember how much people claimed that CDPR was the Second Coming and that CP77 was going to blow them all away. Then the game came out. Great studios can put out terrible product, especially if they ride on their reputation rather than quality. I'd mention Bethesda as well, but everyone that expects a bug free release from Bethesda, that doesn't rely on modders to fix it, since Oblivion, at the very least, is deluded. But at least Bethesda provides people with the tools to fix their games with. Except Fallout 76. And I don't need to remind anyone how that went. Surprisingly, it's more successful than Anthem, but Fallout was a bigger franchise than Anthem could hope to be and Bethesda was in good standing. Not to say that this didn't fuck Bethesda rep up by quite a bit, but at least they kept working on it and it's in a much better place now. I actually don't mind the modding thing. I love mods, one reason I don't care for consoles. It's stupid things like altering the look of the Vault 111 suit to being able to completely tear down Sanctuary and rebuilt it from scratch. Can't do quite that much with Skyrim but still fun. As for some of the bugs, it's possible to use console commands to skip past them. Annoying but possible. Yes, we ought to get a finished game, but it's either that or wait another few years.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 7, 2021 16:52:35 GMT
I actually don't mind the modding thing. I love mods, one reason I don't care for consoles. It's stupid things like altering the look of the Vault 111 suit to being able to completely tear down Sanctuary and rebuilt it from scratch. Can't do quite that much with Skyrim but still fun. As for some of the bugs, it's possible to use console commands to skip past them. Annoying but possible. Yes, we ought to get a finished game, but it's either that or wait another few years. I'd rather wait a few years, if it means not getting a shit show.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 7, 2021 17:48:32 GMT
I actually don't mind the modding thing. I love mods, one reason I don't care for consoles. It's stupid things like altering the look of the Vault 111 suit to being able to completely tear down Sanctuary and rebuilt it from scratch. Can't do quite that much with Skyrim but still fun. As for some of the bugs, it's possible to use console commands to skip past them. Annoying but possible. Yes, we ought to get a finished game, but it's either that or wait another few years. I'd rather wait a few years, if it means not getting a shit show. It would likely be wait a decade at which point the tech would be so old it would look like a 2 generation old game. They need the millions of people playing on a wide range of devices for the bugs to be found. Their more sandbox open world will never be able to be fully bug tested at launch, or even be close to it.
Edit to add outside maybe 76 depending on how you define it, I have never got anything close to a shit show from bethesda. Some humorous bugs here and there, maybe a game break here and there that I could recover from, but nothing close to what I'd call a shit show.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 7, 2021 23:53:14 GMT
It would likely be wait a decade This isn't a game you should realistically be making, then. No game should have a 10 year dev time. Even Rockstar's games. Don't get me started on Star Citizen.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 7, 2021 23:59:19 GMT
It would likely be wait a decade This isn't a game you should realistically be making, then. No game should have a 10 year dev time. Even Rockstar's games. Don't get me started on Star Citizen. I doubt there’s any game Rockstar’s been developing that would be 10 years in the making. I’m sure most of their time up until this point was creating more trash for GTA Online, since holding off on working toward GTA 6 would maximize profits gotten by all the suckers paying for shark cards. As for Star Citizen, it still feels like a total scam to me. The fucking thing’s gotten over 300M toward development, but they still can’t release a definitive, complete product.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 8, 2021 0:42:33 GMT
It would likely be wait a decade This isn't a game you should realistically be making, then. No game should have a 10 year dev time. Even Rockstar's games. Don't get me started on Star Citizen. No, its a game that should be made but made how they have been making it. Requesting perfect out of the gate is not something that a sandbox title like a elder scrolls can do in a realistic time. But making a bad ass game that is almost universally loved despite bugs they can do and have done.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 8, 2021 0:57:53 GMT
No, its a game that should be made but made how they have been making it For a lot of people and studios, this isn't working out very well, anymore.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 8, 2021 4:59:15 GMT
I'd mention Bethesda as well, but everyone that expects a bug free release from Bethesda, that doesn't rely on modders to fix it, since Oblivion, at the very least, is deluded. But at least Bethesda provides people with the tools to fix their games with. Except Fallout 76. And I don't need to remind anyone how that went. Surprisingly, it's more successful than Anthem, but Fallout was a bigger franchise than Anthem could hope to be and Bethesda was in good standing. Not to say that this didn't fuck Bethesda rep up by quite a bit, but at least they kept working on it and it's in a much better place now. I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive. One thing I've learned from long time Fallout fans is that they'll whine about anything that Bethesda makes and appear very smug doing so.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 8, 2021 5:55:10 GMT
I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive. One thing I've learned from long time Fallout fans is that they'll whine about anything that Bethesda makes and appear very smug doing so. That sounds familiar.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 8, 2021 13:37:23 GMT
I’m pretty sure Bethesda benefited also from the fact that expectations were considerably lower for this game, since an “online Fallout” isn’t exactly the sort of thing that blows the hair back of long-time Fallout fans that care about the solo experience well above a gimmicky live service system. They lucked out that they have a strong enough community to keep that shitshow alive. One thing I've learned from long time Fallout fans is that they'll whine about anything that Bethesda makes and appear very smug doing so. I feel like that kinda came to a head with Fallout 4, which admittedly has some odd creative decisions that even annoy me as someone who’s only casually interested in Fallout. But, I think these AAA developers all kinda have this in common when it comes to their respective fanbases.
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