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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2021 5:58:05 GMT
Eh, DA2 for the most part was good with that. And MEA was just as good as DAI. It’s because those games had dialogue specific for romances. I think all the games except for ME1 (maybe DAO...it's been too long since I played) are good about making it obvious when you're going to start a romance, so that you can be nice to your squad and talk to them without fear that they will think you're flirting. ME2 and ME3 also had moments where being nice meant you were interested. A couple examples were Jacob in ME2 or Steve in ME3.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 31, 2021 6:02:06 GMT
Really? Then why does Peebee ask Ryder if they want to "fool around" in the escape pod then? Because she doesn’t mind casual sex instead of relationships (worried she’ll be hurt again). If you never click a flirt option, she even commented to on how you “haven’t taken the bait yet”. And unlike earlier games, she is totally fine if you turn her down. Also, if that scene occurs when you’re locked into a relationship she won’t offer it, a big difference from earlier games. When I locked it up with Cora with Male Ryder it still happened. Then again, with how buggy MEA is, that's likely the cause.
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Post by malgus on Jul 31, 2021 6:20:09 GMT
To be fair, Bio screwed up with the casually talking to someone and flirting with someone in the MET. I had a similar thing happen the first time I played Dragon Age Origins. I was romancing Morrigan and was nice to Leliana. Then they each tell me to break up with the other. I was like "huh?" Yeah I had the same issue with zevran, the problem is that to keep his loyalty and not have him betray me I need to have a big approval rating with him. The problem is that if I try to be nice and get him to talk about him, he automatically thinks I am flirting with him the moment his approval goes up... And then I have to select the good dialogue to not hurt his feeling but still tell him I am not interested. Dragon age 2 and inquisition followed by Andromeda brought this problem to an end with the heart option, you can be as friendly as you want without ever flirting with them. But this kind of mechanic was flawed in both DAO and the mass effect trilogy, I did not wanted to flirt with jack but since I was a paragon she thought I wanted more than a friendly relationship...
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 31, 2021 6:31:28 GMT
ME2 and ME3 also had moments where being nice meant you were interested. A couple examples were Jacob in ME2 or Steve in ME3. I guess it's been a while since I talked to Jacob as femshep beyond the most basic conversations necessary to trigger his loyalty mission, just because the line deliveries are so cringy. I don't remember having an issue with Steve, but I'm playing with a male Shepard right now, so I'll see what happens when I get to ME3.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 13:22:53 GMT
It is weird that FemShep seems so starved, compared to BroShep.
Am I remembering the games wrong?
Why is one version of Shepard dying of thirst?
Is it "fanservice"? I feel that this was directed, not ad-libbed.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 13:36:11 GMT
Eh, DA2 for the most part was good with that. And MEA was just as good as DAI. It’s because those games had dialogue specific for romances. Really? Then why does Peebee ask Ryder if they want to "fool around" in the escape pod then? I remember that crap. It's too bad I couldn't play a Ryder with balls to tell the peepee asari that would be gross, then throw her out the airlock.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 13:39:46 GMT
ME2 and ME3 also had moments where being nice meant you were interested. A couple examples were Jacob in ME2 or Steve in ME3. I guess it's been a while since I talked to Jacob as femshep beyond the most basic conversations necessary to trigger his loyalty mission, just because the line deliveries are so cringy. I don't remember having an issue with Steve, but I'm playing with a male Shepard right now, so I'll see what happens when I get to ME3. With Steve, there's no way for a male Shepard to tell him outright if Shepard is only into women, so if you help him out enough that you get the invitation for drinks, he will always comment about there being an "energy" in the bar and about "graceful dancing." Shepard can then use the line that he likes watching the dancing on the stage.... at which point Steve will always interpret that as Shepard being straight and the conversation will become focused on being just a good friend.
The only other awkward line with Steve is in the conversation where you're telling him to take a break. You can avoid it by not using the blue paragon choice and selecting the "that's an order" line instead. I believe you can even select the option where you leave the choice up to him and you'll still be able to find him in Normandy's docks and progress with helping him. I think that some players are "afraid" to use these lines because they fear that they're "not nice"; but sometimes being "nice' means just avoiding sending out a wrong signal, too.
The romances in ME3 are easily managed since all of the invites that lock them in stay "open" until just after Thessia (and by then you will have collected them all). All you have to do then is talk to your chosen LI first and the rest will be locked out at that point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 13:42:53 GMT
Really? Then why does Peebee ask Ryder if they want to "fool around" in the escape pod then? I remember that crap. It's too bad I couldn't play a Ryder with balls to tell the peepee asari that would be gross, then throw her out the airlock. You can just simply tell her "no" though. Why do you insist that Bioware write in dialogue to allow your Ryder (or Shepard for that matter) to be such extreme dicks that they want to throw everyone out the airlock?
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 13:56:16 GMT
I remember that crap. It's too bad I couldn't play a Ryder with balls to tell the peepee asari that would be gross, then throw her out the airlock. You can just simply tell her "no" though. Why do you insist that Bioware write in dialogue to allow your Ryder (or Shepard for that matter) have to be such extreme dicks that they want to throw everyone out the airlock? Simple. That seems to be the only thing that would get through to the character. Look at what the stupid thing did on EOS. It found the perfect guinea pig that would put up with her nonsense. Had little Ryder got in the asari's face about been knocked down, it's possible the asari would realize Ryder is someone who doesn't put up with stupid crap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 14:03:48 GMT
You can just simply tell her "no" though. Why do you insist that Bioware write in dialogue to allow your Ryder (or Shepard for that matter) have to be such extreme dicks that they want to throw everyone out the airlock? Simple. That seems to be the only thing that would get through to the character. Look at what the stupid thing did on EOS. It found the perfect guinea pig that would put up with her nonsense. Had little Ryder got in the asari's face about been knocked down, it's possible the asari would realize Ryder is someone who doesn't put up with stupid crap. If you say "no" then there's no more offers of casual sex. Seems to me you're the one trying to get more messages across at once than just preventing a casual sexual encounter... i.e. wanting to be a dick.
Also - Where's the option in MELE to throw Miranda or Jacob out the airlock at any point in the game?... or to even tell TIM to F-off and rejoin the Alliance after Horizon or the Collector Ship? Even at the end, Shepard has no way to tell TIM that he/she is stealing his illicit copy of the Normandy and turning it back into the Alliance. All he/she can do is meekly tell Joker to "lose this channel." As Jack says... sounds like a pussy. Better yet... where's the option to tell TIM you're coming for him after all those betrayals?
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 14:14:22 GMT
Simple. That seems to be the only thing that would get through to the character. Look at what the stupid thing did on EOS. It found the perfect guinea pig that would put up with her nonsense. Had little Ryder got in the asari's face about been knocked down, it's possible the asari would realize Ryder is someone who doesn't put up with stupid crap. If you say "no" then there's no more offers of casual sex. Seems to me you're the one trying to get more messages across at once than just preventing a casual sexual encounter... i.e. wanting to be a dick. Seems to be you don't have a problem with little Ryder being a wuss not to stand up for themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 14:22:15 GMT
Peebee was a giant security risk, as was Liam.
My video game self does indeed airlock those two idiots, without hesitation and with just a hint of a smile.
My IRL self would have fired them, reassigned them, or jailed them. There is simply no way either of those two idiots are staying on my team.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 14:28:16 GMT
If you say "no" then there's no more offers of casual sex. Seems to me you're the one trying to get more messages across at once than just preventing a casual sexual encounter... i.e. wanting to be a dick. Seems to be you don't have a problem with little Ryder being a wuss not to stand up for themselves. Read my addition to the previous post... or are you too in love with Cerberus to see that Shepard is a wuss as well? He/she can't even properly defend his/her actions against Tela Vasir's accusations... i.e. to say that he'll eventually be gunning for TIM and to take Cerberus down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 14:36:32 GMT
Peebee was a giant security risk, as was Liam. My video game self does indeed airlock those two idiots, without hesitation and with just a hint of a smile. My IRL self would have fired them, reassigned them, or jailed them. There is simply no way either of those two idiots are staying on my team. You don't get a bigger "security risk" on your team than Miranda... who proves she has a "liberal interpretation of security protocols" when she leaks information to Jacob about the Gernsback. Yet... Shepard can't even really chastise her for that and TIM doesn't really either. Where's the option to shut down EDI... who admits to having a bunch of "unknown" protocols that were inaccessible to EDI before that time... that could even, say, include a protocol to allow TIM to just blow up the Normandy remotely... talk about a security risk.
Where;s the option in ME1 to leave Tali on the Citadel? If Shepard tries, Udina just overrides him/her and Shepard can't even object. What business does Shepard have suggesting they recruit anyone prior to gaining command of the Normandy? Talk about a security risk... and yet Shepard has no choice but to recruit at least 2 of 3 possible ALIENS before even becoming a spectre.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 14:47:28 GMT
Seems to be you don't have a problem with little Ryder being a wuss not to stand up for themselves. Read my addition to the previous post... or are you too in love with Cerberus to see that Shepard is a wuss as well? He/she can't even properly defend his/her actions against Tela Vasir's accusations. Interesting you added that crap after I replied to your post. Then again it's a habit of yours to do that. But, I will reply to you added whatever. As far as the Vasir stuff. Why would I defend myself? She was dying, defending myself would prove nothing since she is dead a few moments later. Also - Where's the option in MELE to throw Miranda or Jacob out the airlock at any point in the game?... or to even tell TIM to F-off and rejoin the Alliance after Horizon or the Collector Ship? Even at the end, Shepard has no way to tell TIM that he/she is stealing his illicit copy of the Normandy and turning it back into the Alliance. All he/she can do is meekly tell Joker to "lose this channel." As Jack says... sounds like a pussy. Better yet... where's the option to tell TIM you're coming for him after all those betrayals? Interesting? Of those, who knocked Shepard to the ground and/or wanted to have a good time in the escape pod? What reason would there be to throw Taylor and Lawson out the airlock? Why would I tell TIM to get lost after Horizon or the collector ship? Going back to the Alliance would prove useless since the Alliance wasn't doing nothing. Wait a minute. They might with Shepard holding their hands since they can't do anything for themselves. Since you're coming up with this whatever. Where's the option to get in smurettes face about having armor put on display? How about getting in her face for trying to blame the Alliance for what's happening to Thessia and then later trying to blame the protheans? How about getting in the Anderson clown's face when he says they need Shepard to help them find a way to stop the reapers when he said in ME2 it's up to him/her to stop the reapers? You're just moaning and groaning about someone who doesn't like MEA because you like it.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 14:52:30 GMT
Peebee was a giant security risk, as was Liam. My video game self does indeed airlock those two idiots, without hesitation and with just a hint of a smile. My IRL self would have fired them, reassigned them, or jailed them. There is simply no way either of those two idiots are staying on my team. If I was in little Ryder's spot, the peepee asari would never have asked about joining my team. With Kosta, I would likely have removed from the roster after he said he's been suspended x number of times after I asked him why.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 14:56:45 GMT
Peebee was a giant security risk, as was Liam. My video game self does indeed airlock those two idiots, without hesitation and with just a hint of a smile. My IRL self would have fired them, reassigned them, or jailed them. There is simply no way either of those two idiots are staying on my team. You don't get a bigger "security risk" on your team than Miranda... who proves she has a "liberal interpretation of security protocols" when she leaks information to Jacob about the Gernsback. Yet... Shepard can't even really chastise her for that and TIM doesn't really either. Where's the option to shut down EDI... who admits to having a bunch of "unknown" protocols that were inaccessible to EDI before that time... that could even, say, include a protocol to allow TIM to just blow up the Normandy remotely... talk about a security risk.
Where;s the option in ME1 to leave Tali on the Citadel? If Shepard tries, Udina just overrides him/her and Shepard can't even object. What business does Shepard have suggesting they recruit anyone prior to gaining command of the Normandy?
I agree! With all of this, although I could never leave my boo Tali behind. I am always curious about synthetic life, and felt a sadness in ME1 destroying proto-EDI on Luna. Recognizing who she was, it did occur to my Shep that there really should be an emergency disconnect just in case. Can't make one without EDI knowing, so that might be a difficult conversation... Regarding Miranda, there is this little detail where she kinda singlehandedly resurrected you. Despite not trusting her, ever (I have NEVER done the Miranda romance lol), I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It would have been a nice touch to have an "influence" based confrontation with her regarding loyalty, and give her a Wrex-like solution by shotgun. I just go back to replayability. I was mortified, again and again, doing my first DS playthrough of KoTOR. The things you can do to your team, are shocking really. Chaotic evil. I did that once, it was enough, but it was a damned worthwhile experience and I saw the amount of love given to a RP choice that is likely the road less taken. In the case of MEA, you are building a team. They should have had more choices for that team, if they were going to make some of them so questionable. Neither of those characters ever redeem themselves in my eyes, in-game. Peebee ended up just annoying me, whereas Liam, who I wanted to like, became my most hated BioWare character. Absolute jackass, pretty sure in the heat of that moment, bare minimum I beat him within inches of his life. The moment of decision/internal dialog choices would be "shoot this fucker in the eye" or "kick the living shit out of him". 50/50 tbh. So, not arguing with you really. I guess adding an explanation, not sure if it helps lol.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2021 15:07:09 GMT
Regarding Miranda, there is this little detail where she kinda singlehandedly resurrected you. Despite not trusting her, ever (I have NEVER done the Miranda romance lol), I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It would have been a nice touch to have an "influence" based confrontation with her regarding loyalty, and give her a Wrex-like solution by shotgun. Singlehandedly? I recall a bunch of other scientists helping with that. But to add to this conversation, ME2 is definitely the worse offender. Case in point: Jack. Woman is a giant risk to not just the mission but the lives of everyone on the ship and beyond, but you have no choice in recruiting her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:15:15 GMT
Regarding Miranda, there is this little detail where she kinda singlehandedly resurrected you. Despite not trusting her, ever (I have NEVER done the Miranda romance lol), I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It would have been a nice touch to have an "influence" based confrontation with her regarding loyalty, and give her a Wrex-like solution by shotgun. Singlehandedly? I recall a bunch of other scientists helping with that. But to add to this conversation, ME2 is definitely the worse offender. Case in point: Jack. Woman is a giant risk to not just the mission but the lives of everyone on the ship and beyond, but you have no choice in recruiting her. I figured someone would jump on that. She was the leader of the Lazarus Cell, and had Wilson and a small team of unnamed scientists involved in the direct manipulation of Shep's body. So it is a stretch, but she was the primary active hand in Shep's restoration (even if TIM was the money and reason behind it). No real argument on Jack either. The thing about ME2 is, you ultimately can kill your entire crew. It takes a serious psycho Shep to play the game just to kill their team, but then a full renegade Shep might do that. Most previous BW games gave you a choice at a certain point to off someone from your team, or they could decide theyhad had enough of your shit. DAO in particular comes to mind with how well this was done.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:17:25 GMT
Read my addition to the previous post... or are you too in love with Cerberus to see that Shepard is a wuss as well? He/she can't even properly defend his/her actions against Tela Vasir's accusations. Interesting you added that crap after I replied to your post. Then again it's a habit of yours to do that. But, I will reply to you added whatever. As far as the Vasir stuff. Why would I defend myself? She was dying, defending myself would prove nothing since she is dead a few moments later. Also - Where's the option in MELE to throw Miranda or Jacob out the airlock at any point in the game?... or to even tell TIM to F-off and rejoin the Alliance after Horizon or the Collector Ship? Even at the end, Shepard has no way to tell TIM that he/she is stealing his illicit copy of the Normandy and turning it back into the Alliance. All he/she can do is meekly tell Joker to "lose this channel." As Jack says... sounds like a pussy. Better yet... where's the option to tell TIM you're coming for him after all those betrayals? Interesting? Of those, who knocked Shepard to the ground and/or wanted to have a good time in the escape pod? What reason would there be to throw Taylor and Lawson out the airlock? Why would I tell TIM to get lost after Horizon or the collector ship? Going back to the Alliance would prove useless since the Alliance wasn't doing nothing. Wait a minute. They might with Shepard holding their hands since they can't do anything for themselves. Since you're coming up with this whatever. Where's the option to get in smurettes face about having armor put on display? How about getting in her face for trying to blame the Alliance for what's happening to Thessia and then later trying to blame the protheans? How about getting in the Anderson clown's face when he says they need Shepard to help them find a way to stop the reapers when he said in ME2 it's up to him/her to stop the reapers? You're just moaning and groaning about someone who doesn't like MEA because you like it. Your short answer - You're so in love with Cerberus that you can't see the 'why's" for doing things like getting Miranda, Jacob and EDI off the ship... or for being able to tell TIM you're taking a copy of an Alliance warship back to the Alliance after he betrayed you multiple times or for even telling him you'd be coming after him for having done such things. How different would ME3 have been if, instead of forcing the issue of bringing back the Reapers, it could have been just about the Alliance bringing down Cerberus for "all the ways they've been subverting science throughout the galaxy." We wouldn't, for example, have a "crucible" or "catalyst" issue to have argued over for the last 9 years.
... and I'm not even mentioning ME:A... because, if they had just given Shepard some balls in ME2, perhaps ME4 would have just continued on... without Reapers... just plenty of galactic politicking.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:26:14 GMT
You don't get a bigger "security risk" on your team than Miranda... who proves she has a "liberal interpretation of security protocols" when she leaks information to Jacob about the Gernsback. Yet... Shepard can't even really chastise her for that and TIM doesn't really either. Where's the option to shut down EDI... who admits to having a bunch of "unknown" protocols that were inaccessible to EDI before that time... that could even, say, include a protocol to allow TIM to just blow up the Normandy remotely... talk about a security risk.
Where;s the option in ME1 to leave Tali on the Citadel? If Shepard tries, Udina just overrides him/her and Shepard can't even object. What business does Shepard have suggesting they recruit anyone prior to gaining command of the Normandy?
I agree! With all of this, although I could never leave my boo Tali behind. I am always curious about synthetic life, and felt a sadness in ME1 destroying proto-EDI on Luna. Recognizing who she was, it did occur to my Shep that there really should be an emergency disconnect just in case. Can't make one without EDI knowing, so that might be a difficult conversation... Regarding Miranda, there is this little detail where she kinda singlehandedly resurrected you. Despite not trusting her, ever (I have NEVER done the Miranda romance lol), I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It would have been a nice touch to have an "influence" based confrontation with her regarding loyalty, and give her a Wrex-like solution by shotgun. I just go back to replayability. I was mortified, again and again, doing my first DS playthrough of KoTOR. The things you can do to your team, are shocking really. Chaotic evil. I did that once, it was enough, but it was a damned worthwhile experience and I saw the amount of love given to a RP choice that is likely the road less taken. In the case of MEA, you are building a team. They should have had more choices for that team, if they were going to make some of them so questionable. Neither of those characters ever redeem themselves in my eyes, in-game. Peebee ended up just annoying me, whereas Liam, who I wanted to like, became my most hated BioWare character. Absolute jackass, pretty sure in the heat of that moment, bare minimum I beat him within inches of his life. The moment of decision/internal dialog choices would be "shoot this fucker in the eye" or "kick the living shit out of him". 50/50 tbh. So, not arguing with you really. I guess adding an explanation, not sure if it helps lol. Except... at the time ME:A was in development, there was an outcry here (or on the old BSN rather) basically telling Bioware to not allow squad members to die during the game... so ME:A did not offer us the same sort of options as ME2 in response to what then was the apparent "popular opinion" on the issue. I agree, I like having the luxury of being able to pick and choose from a number of squad members and having the luxury of getting rid of squad members during the game... but that really increases the "budget" for the game because of all the alternative paths that the game could take and with a large number of alternative peoples in it. I don't think Bioware really has that sort of budget to work with anymore. US parents of Canadian subsidiaries don't tend to be too generous about flooding money north of the border. Profits from a Canadian subsidiary tend to flow south (at least that's been my experience in the Canadian oil industry... which has a high percentage of companies owned by American parents).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 16:07:05 GMT
Good points.
BioWare has been far too reactive to, and always trying to chase, whatever is popular at the moment.
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dmc1001
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 31, 2021 16:52:47 GMT
I can't remember right now. But I do remember being turned off by her comments at the time. So much so that it made my choice on Virmire an easy choice. I can only think of her getting mad as Liara post-one mission when they were all sitting together discussion the mission. Had to be after Virmire. Doesn't sound like that's what you were talking about. Maybe some remark based on Ash liking Shep and the feeling that Liara was getting a little too close?
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♨ Retired
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Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
26,299
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2021 16:56:40 GMT
Your short answer - You're so in love with Cerberus that you can't see the 'why's" for doing things like getting Miranda, Jacob and EDI off the ship... or for being able to tell TIM you're taking a copy of an Alliance warship back to the Alliance after he betrayed you multiple times or for even telling him you'd be coming after him for having done such things. How different would ME3 have been if, instead of forcing the issue of bringing back the Reapers, it could have been just about the Alliance bringing down Cerberus for "all the ways they've been subverting science throughout the galaxy." We wouldn't, for example, have a "crucible" or "catalyst" issue to have argued over for the last 9 years. Remember without Cerberus, this cycle would have been harvested. Yes I like Cerberus. I take them over the circus calling itself Alliance. What did it do for two years while Shepard was dead? Nothing. The worst part is that circus made no effort to confirm Shepard's death, and make any attempt to recover any personal belongings of the one's lost when the SR1 was destroyed most notably their dogtags so family members can have closure. The circus/Alliance never cared. Have that one guy keep saying I trust you, I believe you, but all he did was sit around taking the shape of his chair. After dealing with the collectors, what does the circus do, locks Shepard up for 6 months because of dumb crap instead of having him/her looking for clues to stopping the reapers especially since Shepard has the cipher. How different would ME3 have been?
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Scribbles
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 31, 2021 19:27:03 GMT
Your short answer - You're so in love with Cerberus that you can't see the 'why's" for doing things like getting Miranda, Jacob and EDI off the ship... or for being able to tell TIM you're taking a copy of an Alliance warship back to the Alliance after he betrayed you multiple times or for even telling him you'd be coming after him for having done such things. How different would ME3 have been if, instead of forcing the issue of bringing back the Reapers, it could have been just about the Alliance bringing down Cerberus for "all the ways they've been subverting science throughout the galaxy." We wouldn't, for example, have a "crucible" or "catalyst" issue to have argued over for the last 9 years. Remember without Cerberus, this cycle would have been harvested. Yes I like Cerberus. I take them over the circus calling itself Alliance. What did it do for two years while Shepard was dead? Nothing. The worst part is that circus made no effort to confirm Shepard's death, and make any attempt to recover any personal belongings of the one's lost when the SR1 was destroyed most notably their dogtags so family members can have closure. The circus/Alliance never cared. Have that one guy keep saying I trust you, I believe you, but all he did was sit around taking the shape of his chair. After dealing with the collectors, what does the circus do, locks Shepard up for 6 months because of dumb crap instead of having him/her looking for clues to stopping the reapers especially since Shepard has the cipher. How different would ME3 have been? Remember with Cerberus, this cycle would have been harvested. What did they do in the months leading to the Reaper invasion? Decided to join up and help the Reapers. Getting the dogtags was gameplay-lore segregation. The Alliance knew who was lost on the Normandy, but the game needed some sort of quest objective.
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