FiendishlyInventive
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 1, 2021 9:55:06 GMT
We learn from the Shadow Broker DLC in an exchange between Admiral Hackett and Alliance Brass immediately after the Freedoms Progress investigation, that if Shepard returned to the Alliance they might end up in custody for "no more" than five to seven months so, yes ultimately remaining with Cerberus' the only sensible choice in retrospect in terms of having access to resources until you deal with the Collectors.
Shepard does not have the luxury of returning to the Alliance Military, and fighting the Reapers, they had to pick one or the other.
Because simply being MIA's enough of a reason for the Alliance to jail you for stirring up stuff they don't want to deal with.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 1, 2021 10:39:34 GMT
We learn from the Shadow Broker DLC in an exchange between Admiral Hackett and Alliance Brass immediately after the Freedoms Progress investigation, that if Shepard returned to the Alliance they might end up in custody for "no more" than five to seven months so, yes ultimately remaining with Cerberus' the only sensible choice in retrospect in terms of having access to resources until you deal with the Collectors. Shepard does not have the luxury of returning to the Alliance Military, and fighting the Reapers, they had to pick one or the other. Because simply being MIA's enough of a reason for the Alliance to jail you for stirring up stuff they don't want to deal with. Not to mention Cerberus was the only one fighting the Reapers/ Collectors at that point anyways. Sure TIM had his own motives at hand to and they were obviously underhanded but at the end of the day the Alliance/ Council's official position was no matter how the playthrough would break down is 'ah yes, reapers'.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2021 12:39:40 GMT
And what would have happened if Shepard dump Cerberus to go back to the Alliance? Nothing. Cerberus has a ship that Shepard could have used. Alliance doesn't or at least anything like the SR2. How would Shepard get hold of the IFF needed to get to the galactic core? Cerberus has the information on where to get the IFF. What does the Alliance have? Nothing. Shepard acquired the IFF... so when does Cerberus actually have it... Chandana's team are husks. Shepard could acquire the IFF, tell Cerberus to F-off, and take everything to the Alliance to convince them to send him into the Omega 4 relay instead. As I said, Shepard has no balls to turn his/hrr back on Cerberus. Bioware wrote ME2 with Shepard being Cerberus' jailhouse patsy. TIM screws Shepard over multiple times and Shepard hardly bats an eye about it... just keeps coming back to get screwed over again and again. So you would let Cerberus screw you over, as you say, until whenever something important happens before you would go back to the Alliance? Why didn't you go back to the Alliance right away after waking up? Or does your Shepard lack the balls to do that? Also I never said Cerberus had the IFF. I said they had information to where it can be found.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 12:58:28 GMT
Shepard acquired the IFF... so when does Cerberus actually have it... Chandana's team are husks. Shepard could acquire the IFF, tell Cerberus to F-off, and take everything to the Alliance to convince them to send him into the Omega 4 relay instead. As I said, Shepard has no balls to turn his/hrr back on Cerberus. Bioware wrote ME2 with Shepard being Cerberus' jailhouse patsy. TIM screws Shepard over multiple times and Shepard hardly bats an eye about it... just keeps coming back to get screwed over again and again. and if by "screwed over" you mean make the right tactical choices 90% of the time...then sure. No, I mean by repeatedly not revealing mission critical information to Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 13:13:24 GMT
Shepard acquired the IFF... so when does Cerberus actually have it... Chandana's team are husks. Shepard could acquire the IFF, tell Cerberus to F-off, and take everything to the Alliance to convince them to send him into the Omega 4 relay instead. As I said, Shepard has no balls to turn his/hrr back on Cerberus. Bioware wrote ME2 with Shepard being Cerberus' jailhouse patsy. TIM screws Shepard over multiple times and Shepard hardly bats an eye about it... just keeps coming back to get screwed over again and again. So you would let Cerberus screw you over, as you say, until whenever something important happens before you would go back to the Alliance? Why didn't you go back to the Alliance right away after waking up? Or does your Shepard lack the balls to do that? Also I never said Cerberus had the IFF. I said they had information to where it can be found. We're not talking about goiing back right after waking up... I'm talking about the weak response Shepard gives to TIM after doing the Collector Ship mission and later after doing the SM. "Lose this channel" is not a decent comeback and can hardly be considered "going rogue." (which is the later reference to that action in ME3).
Again, my premise is that... had Bioware given Shepard some balls during that conversation to say something like 'Next time we meet, I'm going to take you and your entire organization down." - ME3 could have easily been rewritten slightly to be only about taking down Cerberus (a human organization bent on subverting science to nefarious ends)... and we wouldn't have had the "ending mess" we got.
In a more extensive rewrite... The Reapers could have been successfully "retrapped" in Dark Space at the end of ME1 and not made another appearance in the franchise for many more episodes.
The Arrival DLC could have also been rewritten to have been more about the Batarians as the villains hatching a plot to release a biochemical warfare agent on human colonies... no need for Shepard to have committed a genocide of 300,000 of them and been incarcerated at all
The Collectors also did not need to be working with the Reapers to have been adequate villains abducting human colonies for their own ends.
The Reapers have never been a well-written villain... just some "unknowable" space Cthulu.
... but it's clear you're just being argumentative as usual... so I'll leave you again to argue everything amongst yourselves.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 1, 2021 13:25:14 GMT
And what would have happened if Shepard dump Cerberus to go back to the Alliance? Nothing. Cerberus has a ship that Shepard could have used. Alliance doesn't or at least anything like the SR2. How would Shepard get hold of the IFF needed to get to the galactic core? Cerberus has the information on where to get the IFF. What does the Alliance have? Nothing. Shepard acquired the IFF... so when does Cerberus actually have it... Chandana's team are husks. Shepard could acquire the IFF, tell Cerberus to F-off, and take everything to the Alliance to convince them to send him into the Omega 4 relay instead. As I said, Shepard has no balls to turn his/hrr back on Cerberus. Bioware wrote ME2 with Shepard being Cerberus' jailhouse patsy. TIM screws Shepard over multiple times and Shepard hardly bats an eye about it... just keeps coming back to get screwed over again and again. Shepard would have been detained by the Alliance if he'd gone back, leaving the Collectors to do as they please, the Reapers show up and that's all she wrote for the MW. That's the outcome if Shepard had gone back to the Alliance in ME2.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2021 13:28:19 GMT
and if by "screwed over" you mean make the right tactical choices 90% of the time...then sure. No, I mean by repeatedly not revealing mission critical information to Shepard. Doesn't Hackett do the same? In ME3 instead of mentioning that Shepard might run into Cerberus on Mars, he mentions we can't defeat the reapers conventionally which has nothing to do with nothing at that point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 14:35:57 GMT
No, I mean by repeatedly not revealing mission critical information to Shepard. Doesn't Hackett do the same? In ME3 instead of mentioning that Shepard might run into Cerberus on Mars, he mentions we can't defeat the reapers conventionally which has nothing to do with nothing at that point. Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? He's sending Shepard there to get what Liara already believes are plans for a "unconventional" Prothean device, but Liara herself didn't know at that point that Dr. Eva was Cerberus.
Whereas, EDI confirms herself that TIM knew that the Collector Ship was a trap and deliberately sent Shepard into that trap without leveling with him/her on the lame excuse that telling Shepard would somehow equate to tipping off the Collectors. Then, Chandana's team was his own team who he had lost contact with... but that level of indoctrination takes some time (per ME1), so why wasn't TIM suspicious there was something going on with that not so derelict/dead Reaper before he sent Shepard there. We also know from earlier in the game (1st or 2nd conversation with TIM) that there are already suspicious that the Collector ships are using a special form of ID to get through the Omega 4 relay... so why didn't TIM mention trying to get the IFF from the Collector ship, really? TIM says he didn't know...but earlier he did say he had a hunch. Also, how would he have guessed ahead of time that Shepard would not have the time to grab the Collector ship's IFF... unless he knew that Shepard was going to be attacked on that ship. Face it, TIM screwed Shepard over... and your Shepard loves him for it.
Shepard can say, after the Collector ship, that TIM would be in trouble if he tried something like that again... but nothing happens after TIM does try something similar again with the IFF mission.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 14:41:48 GMT
Shepard acquired the IFF... so when does Cerberus actually have it... Chandana's team are husks. Shepard could acquire the IFF, tell Cerberus to F-off, and take everything to the Alliance to convince them to send him into the Omega 4 relay instead. As I said, Shepard has no balls to turn his/hrr back on Cerberus. Bioware wrote ME2 with Shepard being Cerberus' jailhouse patsy. TIM screws Shepard over multiple times and Shepard hardly bats an eye about it... just keeps coming back to get screwed over again and again. Shepard would have been detained by the Alliance if he'd gone back, leaving the Collectors to do as they please, the Reapers show up and that's all she wrote for the MW. That's the outcome if Shepard had gone back to the Alliance in ME2. Perhaps... but Shepard is coming to them with a top of the line copy of their stealth warship and plenty of solid evidence about the colonist abductions... as well as the means to get through the Omega 4 relay. If Shepard is a spectre, his work with Cerberus at that point can be waived off as "being undercover." Anderson, as Councillor, would probably easily support sending Shepard through the Omega 4 relay to stop the Collectors. It's not like the Alliance was doing nothing about the colonists (as TIM claimed). They did install a Gardian lasor on Horizon, even though the colonists did not want their help. If was written one way... but it could have easily been written another... and in a way that would have made far more sense in the end.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2021 14:55:45 GMT
Doesn't Hackett do the same? In ME3 instead of mentioning that Shepard might run into Cerberus on Mars, he mentions we can't defeat the reapers conventionally which has nothing to do with nothing at that point. Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? Did I say Hackett knew they were on Mars? No. I said Shepard MIGHT run into Cerberus on Mars. That doesn't mean Hackett knew they were on Mars. He also says, after the mission, I thought they might try something.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 1, 2021 15:09:54 GMT
Shepard would have been detained by the Alliance if he'd gone back, leaving the Collectors to do as they please, the Reapers show up and that's all she wrote for the MW. That's the outcome if Shepard had gone back to the Alliance in ME2. Perhaps... but Shepard is coming to them with a top of the line copy of their stealth warship and plenty of solid evidence about the colonist abductions... as well as the means to get through the Omega 4 relay. If Shepard is a spectre, his work with Cerberus at that point can be waived off as "being undercover." Anderson, as Councillor, would probably easily support sending Shepard through the Omega 4 relay to stop the Collectors. It's not like the Alliance was doing nothing about the colonists (as TIM claimed). They did install a Gardian lasor on Horizon, even though the colonists did not want their help. If was written one way... but it could have easily been written another... and in a way that would have made far more sense in the end. And yet that doesn't stop them from locking up Shepard, if you don't do the Arrival DLC that is. Those 6 wasted months could have been put to better effect but instead the Alliance just locks up Shepard because they are salty that Shepard worked with Cerberus. And as someone else pointed out, the Alliance always planned on arresting Shepard but Hackett stopped it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 1, 2021 15:58:55 GMT
We learn from the Shadow Broker DLC in an exchange between Admiral Hackett and Alliance Brass immediately after the Freedoms Progress investigation, that if Shepard returned to the Alliance they might end up in custody for "no more" than five to seven months so, yes ultimately remaining with Cerberus' the only sensible choice in retrospect in terms of having access to resources until you deal with the Collectors. Shepard does not have the luxury of returning to the Alliance Military, and fighting the Reapers, they had to pick one or the other. Because simply being MIA's enough of a reason for the Alliance to jail you for stirring up stuff they don't want to deal with. Not to mention Cerberus was the only one fighting the Reapers/ Collectors at that point anyways. Sure TIM had his own motives at hand to and they were obviously underhanded but at the end of the day the Alliance/ Council's official position was no matter how the playthrough would break down is 'ah yes, reapers'. Incorrect. Others were preparing for the Reapers, such as the Geth and the Quarians and as we later learn the Mysterious Benefactor.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2021 16:21:04 GMT
Not to mention Cerberus was the only one fighting the Reapers/ Collectors at that point anyways. Sure TIM had his own motives at hand to and they were obviously underhanded but at the end of the day the Alliance/ Council's official position was no matter how the playthrough would break down is 'ah yes, reapers'. Incorrect. Others were preparing for the Reapers, such as the Geth and the Quarians and as we later learn the Mysterious Benefactor. And what do you do to prepare for the reapers without having information of how many there are, when they will attack, from where will they attack, and what type of weapons they use? Why not search for clues that might stop the reapers? Ah yes the benefactor. If this group/person/whatever, knew about the reapers, why didn't the benefactor come forward with whatever information they/it/he/she had? Obviously the benefactor knew about them before helping the Garson gang. Of course when and how did they/he/she/it get a hold of whatever information they/it/he/she had about the reapers?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 16:35:48 GMT
Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? Did I say Hackett knew they were on Mars? No. I said Shepard MIGHT run into Cerberus on Mars. That doesn't mean Hackett knew they were on Mars. He also says, after the mission, I thought they might try something. He says he thought they MIGHT try something... but when? He's not saying that he suspected they would be there. Liara was on Mars at that time and did not suspect herself that Cerberus was on Mars. Yeah, someone who has just heard that a place has made a significant discovery might suspect that at some point someone MIGHT do something... but that doesn't equate to the same thing as TIM did... who KNEW the Collector Ship was a trap.
Also, here's one - Why didn't Shepard even bother to mention to show Anderson and the Council Veetor's film of the Collectors abducting human colonists in order to "mobilize the Alliance" at that point instead of trying to get them to go after the Reapers... when he had no solid evidence of their involvement at that point? You go on for days about why they didn't use Shiala's cipher, but here's an example of Shepard not backing up his/her "claims" with solid evidence he/she had in his/her possession that was ample reason for the Alliance to back a mission to go after the Collectors. Shepard could have "walked away" from Cerberus (TIM even said it would be OK) and worked instead with the Alliance to find a way through the Omega 4 Relay... and obtained an Alliance squad and crew... instead of spending all that time dealing with various "daddy issues."
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 1, 2021 16:44:41 GMT
I'm sitting here wondering if anyone other than Shepard, Miranda and Jacob saw the footage Veetor patched together showing these creepy aliens tossing people into giant cocoon caskets. The Council was ready to string up a Spectre over an audio file. You'd think people would be pretty alarmed that unknown monsters are snatching people by the 10's of thousands with impunity, regardless of the species. I wish Shepard could have just shown this shit to the Council on the Presidium.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 16:48:55 GMT
I'm sitting here wondering if anyone other than Shepard, Miranda and Jacob saw the footage Veetor patched together showing these creepy aliens tossing people into giant cocoon caskets. The Council was ready to string up a Spectre over an audio file. You'd think people would be pretty alarmed that unknown monsters are snatching people by the 10's of thousands with impunity, regardless of the species. I wish Shepard could have just shown this shit to the Council on the Presidium. That's exactly my point. Why was Veetor's omni-tool data even sent to Cerberus. Ask Tali instead for forward everything to the Alliance... it's compelling proof and both the Alliance and the Council have acted and believed Tali in the past.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 1, 2021 17:01:46 GMT
I'm sitting here wondering if anyone other than Shepard, Miranda and Jacob saw the footage Veetor patched together showing these creepy aliens tossing people into giant cocoon caskets. The Council was ready to string up a Spectre over an audio file. You'd think people would be pretty alarmed that unknown monsters are snatching people by the 10's of thousands with impunity, regardless of the species. I wish Shepard could have just shown this shit to the Council on the Presidium. That's exactly my point. Why was Veetor's omni-tool data even sent to Cerberus. Ask Tali instead for forward everything to the Alliance... it's compelling proof and both the Alliance and the Council have acted and believed Tali in the past. I think this is a case of overly manufactured drama where we didn't need any, kind of like the VS dialogue on Horizon where Shepard suddenly was at a loss for words and the VS was at a loss of brains. I don't mind the suppression of any mention of reapers for sake of the public, but the the Council just straight up saying "Lol Saren tricked y'all it's all geth" really takes the cake. I would've loved if they actually took it seriously, but simply admitted that no one was in any real position to act because they were too weak in the aftermath and would be unable to do anything about any resistance from the Terminus if it came to that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 17:08:31 GMT
TIM?!? I don't think balls are his issue...
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 1, 2021 17:15:30 GMT
I'm sitting here wondering if anyone other than Shepard, Miranda and Jacob saw the footage Veetor patched together showing these creepy aliens tossing people into giant cocoon caskets. The Council was ready to string up a Spectre over an audio file. You'd think people would be pretty alarmed that unknown monsters are snatching people by the 10's of thousands with impunity, regardless of the species. I wish Shepard could have just shown this shit to the Council on the Presidium. Because the powers that be love to play about with the idiot ball.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 1, 2021 19:40:42 GMT
Doesn't Hackett do the same? In ME3 instead of mentioning that Shepard might run into Cerberus on Mars, he mentions we can't defeat the reapers conventionally which has nothing to do with nothing at that point. Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? He's sending Shepard there to get what Liara already believes are plans for a "unconventional" Prothean device, but Liara herself didn't know at that point that Dr. Eva was Cerberus.
Whereas, EDI confirms herself that TIM knew that the Collector Ship was a trap and deliberately sent Shepard into that trap without leveling with him/her on the lame excuse that telling Shepard would somehow equate to tipping off the Collectors. Then, Chandana's team was his own team who he had lost contact with... but that level of indoctrination takes some time (per ME1), so why wasn't TIM suspicious there was something going on with that not so derelict/dead Reaper before he sent Shepard there. We also know from earlier in the game (1st or 2nd conversation with TIM) that there are already suspicious that the Collector ships are using a special form of ID to get through the Omega 4 relay... so why didn't TIM mention trying to get the IFF from the Collector ship, really? TIM says he didn't know...but earlier he did say he had a hunch. Also, how would he have guessed ahead of time that Shepard would not have the time to grab the Collector ship's IFF... unless he knew that Shepard was going to be attacked on that ship. Face it, TIM screwed Shepard over... and your Shepard loves him for it.
Shepard can say, after the Collector ship, that TIM would be in trouble if he tried something like that again... but nothing happens after TIM does try something similar again with the IFF mission.
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 1, 2021 19:48:42 GMT
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. They were just damned lucky EDI was able to take back control from the Collectors. EDI wasn't a reliable resource until Joker unshackled her. She got a lot done but she was so much more effective when free. If you look from a purely tactical standpoint where you might lose a battle it's one thing. If you've doing that same thing with the only person you believe can eliminate the threat it's stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2021 20:20:41 GMT
Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? He's sending Shepard there to get what Liara already believes are plans for a "unconventional" Prothean device, but Liara herself didn't know at that point that Dr. Eva was Cerberus.
Whereas, EDI confirms herself that TIM knew that the Collector Ship was a trap and deliberately sent Shepard into that trap without leveling with him/her on the lame excuse that telling Shepard would somehow equate to tipping off the Collectors. Then, Chandana's team was his own team who he had lost contact with... but that level of indoctrination takes some time (per ME1), so why wasn't TIM suspicious there was something going on with that not so derelict/dead Reaper before he sent Shepard there. We also know from earlier in the game (1st or 2nd conversation with TIM) that there are already suspicious that the Collector ships are using a special form of ID to get through the Omega 4 relay... so why didn't TIM mention trying to get the IFF from the Collector ship, really? TIM says he didn't know...but earlier he did say he had a hunch. Also, how would he have guessed ahead of time that Shepard would not have the time to grab the Collector ship's IFF... unless he knew that Shepard was going to be attacked on that ship. Face it, TIM screwed Shepard over... and your Shepard loves him for it.
Shepard can say, after the Collector ship, that TIM would be in trouble if he tried something like that again... but nothing happens after TIM does try something similar again with the IFF mission.
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. Disagree. It was unnecessary and I don't buy TIM's lame explanatiosn to excuse his behavior. There was no reason he could not have told Shepard what he was sending him/her into.
Cerberus is a litany of discrepancies and lies from the start. Case in point... evidence on Lazarus Station that it was Miranda who was insisting that they bring back Shepard exactly as he/she was... then later, she claims it was TIM who stopped her from putting in a control chip. Miranda, on the shuttle, is possibly even referring to the escape from the Lazarus as their "little field test" of Shepard's abilities... so possible even that, which cost so many lives, was a set up.
But you all just swallow whatever TIM says without questioning it... yet, in the end, in ME3 claim that one just cannot trust the Catalyst.
Here's another Cerberus lie - TIM tells Shepard that the Alliance is stretched too thin dealing with the Reaper/geth threat to worry about the colonies being abducted... but when you talk with Anderson on the Citadel in ME2, he tells you that there's only the odd attack here and there and it's not even really considered a war, just cleanup. Still, Shepard doesn't bother to even try to show them the evidence turned up on Freedom's progress. One line... and Shepard's right into "Cerberus is right... and you won't help me" sort of dialogue... and that's with the Council... there is absolutely no attempt to contact the Alliance (i.e. Hackett) directly with the evidence in order to mobilize them.
Had Shepard showed them that evidence, there is a good chance Anderson and Hackett would have supported an Alliance mission towards stopping the Collectors... but they were never shown that evidence. Shepard could have then easily rejoined the Alliance by simply denouncing Cerberus... allowing Anderson to lock down the Normandy, which was already docked at the Citadel... but no, Shepard had to go full on traitor to the Alliance... just because TIM said they wouldn't help.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 1, 2021 21:13:52 GMT
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. Disagree. It was unnecessary and I don't buy TIM's lame explanatiosn to excuse his behavior. There was no reason he could not have told Shepard what he was sending him/her into.
Cerberus is a litany of discrepancies and lies from the start. Case in point... evidence on Lazarus Station that it was Miranda who was insisting that they bring back Shepard exactly as he/she was... then later, she claims it was TIM who stopped her from putting in a control chip. Miranda, on the shuttle, is possibly even referring to the escape from the Lazarus as their "little field test" of Shepard's abilities... so possible even that, which cost so many lives, was a set up. Wait, what evidence is there on Lazarus Station, that Miranda wants Shepard as he was? Unless I am forgetting something, her only mention of it on the station is in one of her logs ( here at 22:02). She starts by saying "Physical reconstruction of subject is complete", which means this is towards the end fo the project, when that discussion with TIM about the control chip would be long past. Then she says: "Our orders were clear: Make Commander Shepard who s/he was before the explosion. The same mind, the same morals, the same personality." So she even specifies that these were the orders she was given, not her idea. Or do you mean something else?
As for the "field test", come on, obviously she means the questions her and Jacob just asked Shepard, that's what they are going on about in that context.
I mean, I agree that Shepard should have at least tried to re-join the Alliance (and especially Anderson but I think the main problem there were game design and limited dev resources for such a huge story arc branch). I also agree that Cerberus is an inconsistent mess and that TIM alone has a lot of inconsistencies in his personal story but these are kinda weird examples.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 1, 2021 22:14:01 GMT
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. They were just damned lucky EDI was able to take back control from the Collectors. EDI wasn't a reliable resource until Joker unshackled her. She got a lot done but she was so much more effective when free. If you look from a purely tactical standpoint where you might lose a battle it's one thing. If you've doing that same thing with the only person you believe can eliminate the threat it's stupid. What options did Cerberus have at the time based on what we know of their resources around the time of ME 2? TIM is clear they needed intelligence from the Collector ship. He is right. He was also right in assuming that Shepard could've handled the problem being the best of the best. Who else would he have sent? Kai Leng? that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. Disagree. It was unnecessary and I don't buy TIM's lame explanatiosn to excuse his behavior. There was no reason he could not have told Shepard what he was sending him/her into.
Cerberus is a litany of discrepancies and lies from the start. Case in point... evidence on Lazarus Station that it was Miranda who was insisting that they bring back Shepard exactly as he/she was... then later, she claims it was TIM who stopped her from putting in a control chip. Miranda, on the shuttle, is possibly even referring to the escape from the Lazarus as their "little field test" of Shepard's abilities... so possible even that, which cost so many lives, was a set up.
But you all just swallow whatever TIM says without questioning it... yet, in the end, in ME3 claim that one just cannot trust the Catalyst.
Here's another Cerberus lie - TIM tells Shepard that the Alliance is stretched too thin dealing with the Reaper/geth threat to worry about the colonies being abducted... but when you talk with Anderson on the Citadel in ME2, he tells you that there's only the odd attack here and there and it's not even really considered a war, just cleanup. Still, Shepard doesn't bother to even try to show them the evidence turned up on Freedom's progress. One line... and Shepard's right into "Cerberus is right... and you won't help me" sort of dialogue... and that's with the Council... there is absolutely no attempt to contact the Alliance (i.e. Hackett) directly with the evidence in order to mobilize them.
Had Shepard showed them that evidence, there is a good chance Anderson and Hackett would have supported an Alliance mission towards stopping the Collectors... but they were never shown that evidence. Shepard could have then easily rejoined the Alliance by simply denouncing Cerberus... allowing Anderson to lock down the Normandy, which was already docked at the Citadel... but no, Shepard had to go full on traitor to the Alliance... just because TIM said they wouldn't help.
Now hang on a minute. I don't just swallow whatever TIM has to say without questioning it...and we also can't trust the Catalyst. We just are having a disagreement over logic and tactics here. When TIM makes a stupid tactical call, like when he wants to preserve the Collector Base, my Shepard has no problem telling him off to his face. Not telling Shepard about the trap was the right move, Shepard knowing about it would have let the Collectors know that their trap had been spoiled. As for the rest of your point it is a littany of paranoia and misunderstood context. There is no evidence to suggest that Lazaruz station was a set up. Anderson was talking about the Geth when he was talking about cleanup...and the Alliance clearly wasn't invested in sending a lot of resources to investigate the dissapearance of the problem. The only finger they lift is when they send Ashley to Horizon, and then even after they send Ashley to Horizon it is only to investigate Cerberus's involvement...and when Shepard provides evidence that the Collectors are responsible, and that she is now working with Cerberus along with a multi species task force to deal with it, Ashley's attitude is that maybe Cerberus is still behind the threat, maybe they are brainwashing or setting the whole thing up. This is the only Alliance representative that we see pretty much in the entire game and the Council and everyone else are little better. They much rather believe a convenient enemy, like Cerberus, is responsible rather then actually looking behind the scenes and seeing who is actually responsible. Which yeah Shepard did show the Alliance the evidence, she shoowed the Council the evidence, they blamed Cerberus.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2021 1:09:51 GMT
What options did Cerberus have at the time based on what we know of their resources around the time of ME 2? TIM is clear they needed intelligence from the Collector ship. He is right. He was also right in assuming that Shepard could've handled the problem being the best of the best. Who else would he have sent? Kai Leng? It's not about who to send. That was obviously Shepard. It was about sending Shep in blind. That was a major tactical error.
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