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Post by colfoley on Aug 2, 2021 1:12:33 GMT
What options did Cerberus have at the time based on what we know of their resources around the time of ME 2? TIM is clear they needed intelligence from the Collector ship. He is right. He was also right in assuming that Shepard could've handled the problem being the best of the best. Who else would he have sent? Kai Leng? It's not about who to send. That was obviously Shepard. It was about sending Shep in blind. That was a major tactical error. Perhaps. But he was also right that tipping Shepard off could have caused Shepard to behave differently which then would've tipped the Collectors off that they were onto them and they would have changed up their defenses or simply withdrawn.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2021 1:18:11 GMT
It's not about who to send. That was obviously Shepard. It was about sending Shep in blind. That was a major tactical error. Perhaps. But he was also right that tipping Shepard off could have caused Shepard to behave differently which then would've tipped the Collectors off that they were onto them and they would have changed up their defenses or simply withdrawn. Which means TIM didn't think Shepard really had what it took. Or at least that Shep lacked to brains to play things right. TIM was a deceptive guy. He needed Shep for one thing only and seemed to go out of his way to make sure Shep was kept in the dark about a great many things. MANY things.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 2, 2021 1:34:43 GMT
Perhaps... but Shepard is coming to them with a top of the line copy of their stealth warship and plenty of solid evidence about the colonist abductions... as well as the means to get through the Omega 4 relay. If Shepard is a spectre, his work with Cerberus at that point can be waived off as "being undercover." Anderson, as Councillor, would probably easily support sending Shepard through the Omega 4 relay to stop the Collectors. It's not like the Alliance was doing nothing about the colonists (as TIM claimed). They did install a Gardian lasor on Horizon, even though the colonists did not want their help. If was written one way... but it could have easily been written another... and in a way that would have made far more sense in the end. And yet that doesn't stop them from locking up Shepard, if you don't do the Arrival DLC that is. Those 6 wasted months could have been put to better effect but instead the Alliance just locks up Shepard because they are salty that Shepard worked with Cerberus. And as someone else pointed out, the Alliance always planned on arresting Shepard but Hackett stopped it. You know what's worse? The beginning of ME3. Not only does Anderson want Shepard to help them stop the reapers, even though he told Shepard it was up to him/her to do that in ME2, but the committee, or rather the Mickey Mouse club, were hoping Shepard would tell them what the situation is. That is pathetic. They really are stupid. Did they not know Shepard has been locked up for the past 6 months. In that time they made no effort to talk with Shepard. That's par for the course with the circus. It all comes down to them not caring. If only there was a renegade interrupt. Had Shepard showed them that evidence, there is a good chance Anderson and Hackett would have supported an Alliance mission towards stopping the Collectors... but they were never shown that evidence. Shepard could have then easily rejoined the Alliance by simply denouncing Cerberus... allowing Anderson to lock down the Normandy, which was already docked at the Citadel... but no, Shepard had to go full on traitor to the Alliance... just because TIM said they wouldn't help. I disagree. If those two would have supported a mission against the collectors, then why didn't they make any effort to investigate a way to stop the reapers for the 2 years Shepard was dead? Remember that Anderson guy saying I believe you, I trust you. Apparently not. Traitor? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. The Alliance are the traitors. Are they not the protectors for humanity? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was dead? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was locked up for 6 months? Why didn't they let Shepard search for clues to stopping the reapers instead of being locked up?. After the reapers are destroyed, my Shepard would approach the Mickey Mouse committee with a room full of reporters to tell them that the Alliance leadership failed the people of Earth because of the I don't care attitude.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 2, 2021 1:48:18 GMT
Perhaps. But he was also right that tipping Shepard off could have caused Shepard to behave differently which then would've tipped the Collectors off that they were onto them and they would have changed up their defenses or simply withdrawn. Which means TIM didn't think Shepard really had what it took. Or at least that Shep lacked to brains to play things right. TIM was a deceptive guy. He needed Shep for one thing only and seemed to go out of his way to make sure Shep was kept in the dark about a great many things. MANY things. Then if TIM didn't think Shepard had what it took, then what is the point of Project: Larazus.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 2, 2021 4:06:41 GMT
TIM is an idiot that BioWare tried to pass off as a genius. He never made a correct tactical or strategic decision. Ever.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 2, 2021 10:54:16 GMT
That includes hiring Kelly Chambers then?
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Aug 2, 2021 13:11:20 GMT
That includes hiring Kelly Chambers then? Worst decision TIM ever made.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2021 15:47:24 GMT
Which means TIM didn't think Shepard really had what it took. Or at least that Shep lacked to brains to play things right. TIM was a deceptive guy. He needed Shep for one thing only and seemed to go out of his way to make sure Shep was kept in the dark about a great many things. MANY things. Then if TIM didn't think Shepard had what it took, then what is the point of Project: Larazus. Yes, exactly. Why bring back a person who you don't think can do the job with all the facts in hand?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 2, 2021 16:16:52 GMT
That includes hiring Kelly Chambers then? Considering she like everyone else on the Normandy betrays him, yes that wasn’t the correct move for him.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 2, 2021 16:20:20 GMT
Then if TIM didn't think Shepard had what it took, then what is the point of Project: Larazus. Yes, exactly. Why bring back a person who you don't think can do the job with all the facts in hand? It's possible TIM thought, at least at that time, that without Shepard, the galaxy would have been harvested. At the time no one else was making any effort to find a way to stop the reapers. How different would ME2 have been if Shepard did decide not to work with Cerberus. Did TIM have a plan B in place in case that were to happen? What if ME2 offered two paths? A path seen currently in ME2 and a path with Shepard not working with Cerberus to go back to the Alliance? I'm sure that would require a much larger budget. What differences would the player see in ME3?. What if there's a 3rd path to choose? Shepard survives the beginning of ME2 with minor cuts and bruises. Over the course of 2 years, Shepard recovers the dogtags for the ones lost when the SR1 was destroyed. After that, has no luck finding any clues that could help with stopping the reapers. One day, Shepard meets Miranda on the Citadel who explains who she works for and mentions colonists being abducted. Shepard joins her on Freedom's Progress to gather any evidence. Shepard joins Cerberus to stop the collectors. The Alliance isn't happy about that, but also agree something has to be done. Plus Cerberus is providing a ship and resources for Shepard to use. This path would be very similar to the current one.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2021 16:21:39 GMT
That includes hiring Kelly Chambers then? Considering she like everyone else on the Normandy betrays him, yes that wasn’t the correct move for him. Same as with Shep, which is that TIM had to hide the truth from her to get her to play ball. Even Miranda must have been in the dark. All of them only knew that Cerberus put humanity first. Clearly, they never played ME1.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 2, 2021 16:21:54 GMT
That includes hiring Kelly Chambers then? Considering she like everyone else on the Normandy betrays him, yes that wasn’t the correct move for him. Not before spying on Shepard
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2021 16:31:29 GMT
How different would ME2 have been if Shepard did decide not to work with Cerberus. Did TIM have a plan B in place in case that were to happen? I do understand why TIM couldn't let Shep see the true face of Cerberus, though an imported Shep should have known exactly what they were no matter how TIM brushed it off. What bad guy trying to convince you he's not really bad is going to be honest? And he is bad. He was pretty unhappy if Shep took David at the end of Overlord. That means he explicitly condoned torture which means it's impossible to handwave anything from ME1, as well as Jack. TIM was willing to unwillingly subject humans to torture to achieve his goals. There are always people out there willing to be tortured for the good of all. We saw no evidence that was the way Cerberus operated. So, fine, Shep is lied to about the real Cerberus. I believe Shep still would have worked with Cerberus, at least after discovering that the Council was still composed of some of the most idiotic, head in the sand galactic leaders. It would have been a necessary evil, though Shep probably would have required more than TIM gave. More rules would be in place. Now we've got a Shepard who takes the intel and does what Shepard does best and destroys the enemy. Shep doesn't go in blind anywhere and still succeeds because that's what Shepard does. No matter Butcher/Hero/Survivor, Shepard wins out when others don't. Either trust that it remains true or just send in an army with Miranda at the helm. Or anyone loyal to Cerberus.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2021 16:37:00 GMT
Where's the evidence that Hackett knew Cerberus was on Mars? He's sending Shepard there to get what Liara already believes are plans for a "unconventional" Prothean device, but Liara herself didn't know at that point that Dr. Eva was Cerberus.
Whereas, EDI confirms herself that TIM knew that the Collector Ship was a trap and deliberately sent Shepard into that trap without leveling with him/her on the lame excuse that telling Shepard would somehow equate to tipping off the Collectors. Then, Chandana's team was his own team who he had lost contact with... but that level of indoctrination takes some time (per ME1), so why wasn't TIM suspicious there was something going on with that not so derelict/dead Reaper before he sent Shepard there. We also know from earlier in the game (1st or 2nd conversation with TIM) that there are already suspicious that the Collector ships are using a special form of ID to get through the Omega 4 relay... so why didn't TIM mention trying to get the IFF from the Collector ship, really? TIM says he didn't know...but earlier he did say he had a hunch. Also, how would he have guessed ahead of time that Shepard would not have the time to grab the Collector ship's IFF... unless he knew that Shepard was going to be attacked on that ship. Face it, TIM screwed Shepard over... and your Shepard loves him for it.
Shepard can say, after the Collector ship, that TIM would be in trouble if he tried something like that again... but nothing happens after TIM does try something similar again with the IFF mission.
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. It is not. It is a fucking gamble. If that is your idea of a brilliant strategist, I am speechless.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 2, 2021 18:56:47 GMT
that is a valid tactic though, especially with EDI there. TIM made the right call from a purely tactical standpoint. It is not. It is a fucking gamble. If that is your idea of a brilliant strategist, I am speechless. of course it's a gamble. Most military decisions and tactics are. You are gambling that moving your chips into the center of the table and putting them out there is worth it in the end because you have the better hand. You can't be 100% sure of this because you cannot know necessarily what hand your opponent has, but if one does not gamble and risk and act, then one will always be at the mercy of an enemy who does. And TIM was right. He had the better hand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2021 20:35:51 GMT
It is not. It is a fucking gamble. If that is your idea of a brilliant strategist, I am speechless. of course it's a gamble. Most military decisions and tactics are. You are gambling that moving your chips into the center of the table and putting them out there is worth it in the end because you have the better hand. You can't be 100% sure of this because you cannot know necessarily what hand your opponent has, but if one does not gamble and risk and act, then one will always be at the mercy of an enemy who does. And TIM was right. He had the better hand. Bologna. He had plot armor. How many times did your Shep die the first time you played this mission in ME2? Many, for me. Fission Mailed right there bro. He also gets your crew captured (because lives are expendable to a megalomaniac) and if you aren't a good Shep those fuckers are dead. But they died for Cerberus, and surely they will be rewarded in heaven. Not sure exactly how we manage the Normandy without a crew, and if we never needed one then WTF let's just have Jeff and EDI do it all. Maybe just EDI, because Jeff isn't Cerberus and blew it with the Collectors last time. Finally, sending your chosen avatar for the human race as a human racist, into a deathtrap without any clue.... Yeah, that's a strategy. A fucking stupid one. You're basing your opinion entirely post facto. That's great, because you know it's a "brilliant strategy" because it worked. :headdesk:
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Post by colfoley on Aug 3, 2021 0:04:56 GMT
of course it's a gamble. Most military decisions and tactics are. You are gambling that moving your chips into the center of the table and putting them out there is worth it in the end because you have the better hand. You can't be 100% sure of this because you cannot know necessarily what hand your opponent has, but if one does not gamble and risk and act, then one will always be at the mercy of an enemy who does. And TIM was right. He had the better hand. Bologna. He had plot armor. How many times did your Shep die the first time you played this mission in ME2? Many, for me. Fission Mailed right there bro. He also gets your crew captured (because lives are expendable to a megalomaniac) and if you aren't a good Shep those fuckers are dead. But they died for Cerberus, and surely they will be rewarded in heaven. Not sure exactly how we manage the Normandy without a crew, and if we never needed one then WTF let's just have Jeff and EDI do it all. Maybe just EDI, because Jeff isn't Cerberus and blew it with the Collectors last time. Finally, sending your chosen avatar for the human race as a human racist, into a deathtrap without any clue.... Yeah, that's a strategy. A fucking stupid one. You're basing your opinion entirely post facto. That's great, because you know it's a "brilliant strategy" because it worked. :headdesk: TIM is responsible for getting the crew captured? How? Also again, what choice did he have based on the parameters that were estblished and laid out?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 3, 2021 0:09:53 GMT
It is not. It is a fucking gamble. If that is your idea of a brilliant strategist, I am speechless. of course it's a gamble. Most military decisions and tactics are. You are gambling that moving your chips into the center of the table and putting them out there is worth it in the end because you have the better hand. You can't be 100% sure of this because you cannot know necessarily what hand your opponent has, but if one does not gamble and risk and act, then one will always be at the mercy of an enemy who does. And TIM was right. He had the better hand. Not really. History’s greatest military minds have many things in common, one of which is to remove as much gamble as possible to the point they already won the fight before they even fight it. One way they do this is making sure their troops also all know the plan so that they can be at their most effective, not sending them in blindly. Going in blind thinking you have the better hand is a common theme among the most humiliating military defeats.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2021 14:36:59 GMT
Bologna. He had plot armor. How many times did your Shep die the first time you played this mission in ME2? Many, for me. Fission Mailed right there bro. He also gets your crew captured (because lives are expendable to a megalomaniac) and if you aren't a good Shep those fuckers are dead. But they died for Cerberus, and surely they will be rewarded in heaven. Not sure exactly how we manage the Normandy without a crew, and if we never needed one then WTF let's just have Jeff and EDI do it all. Maybe just EDI, because Jeff isn't Cerberus and blew it with the Collectors last time. Finally, sending your chosen avatar for the human race as a human racist, into a deathtrap without any clue.... Yeah, that's a strategy. A fucking stupid one. You're basing your opinion entirely post facto. That's great, because you know it's a "brilliant strategy" because it worked. :headdesk: TIM is responsible for getting the crew captured? How? Also again, what choice did he have based on the parameters that were estblished and laid out? The attack on the Normandy was an example of TIM and EDI's limitations. TIM, painted as brilliant, didn't think there might be virii or a tracking device associated with the IFF. It is EDI's one job. TIM gambles on EDI. Loses. Brilliant strategy. Overestimates what she can actually do, came within millimeters of losing everything going after the Collectors and if not for the singular combat excellence of Commander Shepard, that's the end of the story right there. How will TIM do any of the things he does in ME3 without Shepard completing ME2? He won't do a damned thing, because he isn't that smart and he is no Cmdr. Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2021 15:05:29 GMT
And yet that doesn't stop them from locking up Shepard, if you don't do the Arrival DLC that is. Those 6 wasted months could have been put to better effect but instead the Alliance just locks up Shepard because they are salty that Shepard worked with Cerberus. And as someone else pointed out, the Alliance always planned on arresting Shepard but Hackett stopped it. You know what's worse? The beginning of ME3. Not only does Anderson want Shepard to help them stop the reapers, even though he told Shepard it was up to him/her to do that in ME2, but the committee, or rather the Mickey Mouse club, were hoping Shepard would tell them what the situation is. That is pathetic. They really are stupid. Did they not know Shepard has been locked up for the past 6 months. In that time they made no effort to talk with Shepard. That's par for the course with the circus. It all comes down to them not caring. If only there was a renegade interrupt. Had Shepard showed them that evidence, there is a good chance Anderson and Hackett would have supported an Alliance mission towards stopping the Collectors... but they were never shown that evidence. Shepard could have then easily rejoined the Alliance by simply denouncing Cerberus... allowing Anderson to lock down the Normandy, which was already docked at the Citadel... but no, Shepard had to go full on traitor to the Alliance... just because TIM said they wouldn't help. I disagree. If those two would have supported a mission against the collectors, then why didn't they make any effort to investigate a way to stop the reapers for the 2 years Shepard was dead? Remember that Anderson guy saying I believe you, I trust you. Apparently not. Traitor? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. The Alliance are the traitors. Are they not the protectors for humanity? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was dead? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was locked up for 6 months? Why didn't they let Shepard search for clues to stopping the reapers instead of being locked up?. After the reapers are destroyed, my Shepard would approach the Mickey Mouse committee with a room full of reporters to tell them that the Alliance leadership failed the people of Earth because of the I don't care attitude. In game, Shepard only has TIM telling hiim/her that the Alliance is not doing anything. In becomes clear in ME3 that they were - Project Aurora, for example. The Alliance will also be the ones to destroy the Aratoht relay if Shepard doesn't do the job. Yet, the player's keeps spouting that line in defense of Cerberus... while continually ignoring the evidence in the game that shows that TIM was lying yet again to Shepard. Shepard does go traitor by joining up with TIM just after Freedom's Progress... BECAUSE, to that point in ME2, he/she has done absolutely nothing to find out whether or not the Alliance has done anything in the two years he/she's been out of action. When he/she joins up with TIM, the only thing he/she knows is that the Collectors are attacking human colonies... and that Cerberus has attacked quarian ships. Anything else is only what he/she has been told by TIM himself and his two Cerberus operatives.
Heck, even the news confirms that there was a "swift but confused response" by the Alliance to the attack on Freedom's Progress. Jacob confirms that, with the other colonies, "others" had distrubed the scene before Cerberus got there. Who were those "others" - likely the Alliance, perhaps?
Another lie - this one by Jacob... who says the general public did not know Shepard was dead... and yet the news reports that "the flame on the Shepard Memorial on Torfan" keeps getting extinguished by protestors" or that Hannah Shepard feels that captaining a ship is the best way to honor her son. Then, of course, we get reports that Shepard, who was believed to be dead, was sighted alive on Omega.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 3, 2021 16:00:09 GMT
You know what's worse? The beginning of ME3. Not only does Anderson want Shepard to help them stop the reapers, even though he told Shepard it was up to him/her to do that in ME2, but the committee, or rather the Mickey Mouse club, were hoping Shepard would tell them what the situation is. That is pathetic. They really are stupid. Did they not know Shepard has been locked up for the past 6 months. In that time they made no effort to talk with Shepard. That's par for the course with the circus. It all comes down to them not caring. If only there was a renegade interrupt. I disagree. If those two would have supported a mission against the collectors, then why didn't they make any effort to investigate a way to stop the reapers for the 2 years Shepard was dead? Remember that Anderson guy saying I believe you, I trust you. Apparently not. Traitor? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. The Alliance are the traitors. Are they not the protectors for humanity? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was dead? Why didn't they do anything while Shepard was locked up for 6 months? Why didn't they let Shepard search for clues to stopping the reapers instead of being locked up?. After the reapers are destroyed, my Shepard would approach the Mickey Mouse committee with a room full of reporters to tell them that the Alliance leadership failed the people of Earth because of the I don't care attitude. In game, Shepard only has TIM telling hiim/her that the Alliance is not doing anything. In becomes clear in ME3 that they were - Project Aurora, for example. The Alliance will also be the ones to destroy the Aratoht relay if Shepard doesn't do the job. Yet, the player's keeps spouting that line in defense of Cerberus... while continually ignoring the evidence in the game that shows that TIM was lying yet again to Shepard. Shepard does go traitor by joining up with TIM just after Freedom's Progress... BECAUSE, to that point in ME2, he/she has done absolutely nothing to find out whether or not the Alliance has done anything in the two years he/she's been out of action. When he/she joins up with TIM, the only thing he/she knows is that the Collectors are attacking human colonies... and that Cerberus has attacked quarian ships. Anything else is only what he/she has been told by TIM himself and his two Cerberus operatives.
Heck, even the news confirms that there was a "swift but confused response" by the Alliance to the attack on Freedom's Progress. Jacob confirms that, with the other colonies, "others" had distrubed the scene before Cerberus got there. Who were those "others" - likely the Alliance, perhaps?
You refer to Shepard as a traitor but failed to include Moreau. All he cared about was flying. You also didn't include Ken, Gabby, Chakwas. Yes TIM say's the Alliance isn't doing anything. That is confirmed by Anderson when he says we thought you were dead. And he says it's up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. Obviously they didn't care enough to confirm Shepard's death. It also confirms they made no effort to investigate the remains of the SR1. It comes back to the I don't care attitude. Judge: Commander Shepard you stand before on the charge of working with Cerberus? What say you? Shepard: It was necessary. Cerberus had me for 2 years. They brought me back to deal with the reapers, but at the time, colonists were being abducted. TIM, the leader of Cerberus, mentioned the Alliance wasn't doing anything about that. It was hard to believe. I eventually went to the Citadel to talk with Anderson. He told me they thought I was dead. Immediately my first thought is they made no effort to confirm my death. It also confirmed my suspicions after I was at the sight of the SR1 remains where I found the dogtags of the fallen. Then Anderson told me it was up to me to find a way to stop the reapers. That was enough to tell me he, and the Alliance never cared. It got my blood boiling making it easier to remain working with Cerberus. Even though I suspected TIM was giving me the runaround, I stuck with it because he had the information needed to continue with the mission. Had I went back to the Alliance, how different would things have been? Looking back, I would guess a lot more colonists would have been abducted before the Alliance would have stopped the collectors. And given that they didn't care much about anything at that time, how long would it have taken the Alliance to assemble anyone to deal with the collectors. Knowing me, I would have flipped the finger at the Alliance to go back to finish the job with Cerberus. Judge: I take it you don't have any nice things to say about the Alliance? Shepard: Not really your Honor. Things were going well for me even after stopping Saren, but then it seemed the Alliance changed after that. I will also say the leadership is pathetic at best. They locked me up for 6 months because of stupid crap instead of having me looking for clues to stopping the reapers. I was brought before a committee where they were hoping I could tell what the situation was. Why didn't they make any effort to talk with me during the 6 months? It goes back to what I said. They never cared. Judge: Before I give my decision, I find it hard to accept what you said about the Alliance. I have read over a lot of the reports in the years following the loss of the SR1. So there is some truth to what you said. Off the record, I likely would have done the same as you since human lives were at stake. On the record, you could have gone back to the Alliance to tell them you will continue to work with Cerberus while at the same time keeping them informed about what you were doing. Anyways. Case dismissed. One last thing Commander, thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2021 16:26:11 GMT
In game, Shepard only has TIM telling hiim/her that the Alliance is not doing anything. In becomes clear in ME3 that they were - Project Aurora, for example. The Alliance will also be the ones to destroy the Aratoht relay if Shepard doesn't do the job. Yet, the player's keeps spouting that line in defense of Cerberus... while continually ignoring the evidence in the game that shows that TIM was lying yet again to Shepard. Shepard does go traitor by joining up with TIM just after Freedom's Progress... BECAUSE, to that point in ME2, he/she has done absolutely nothing to find out whether or not the Alliance has done anything in the two years he/she's been out of action. When he/she joins up with TIM, the only thing he/she knows is that the Collectors are attacking human colonies... and that Cerberus has attacked quarian ships. Anything else is only what he/she has been told by TIM himself and his two Cerberus operatives.
Heck, even the news confirms that there was a "swift but confused response" by the Alliance to the attack on Freedom's Progress. Jacob confirms that, with the other colonies, "others" had distrubed the scene before Cerberus got there. Who were those "others" - likely the Alliance, perhaps?
You refer to Shepard as a traitor but failed to include Moreau. All he cared about was flying. You also didn't include Ken, Gabby, Chakwas. Yes TIM say's the Alliance isn't doing anything. That is confirmed by Anderson when he says we thought you were dead. And he says it's up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. Obviously they didn't care enough to confirm Shepard's death. It also confirms they made no effort to investigate the remains of the SR1. It comes back to the I don't care attitude. Judge: Commander Shepard you stand before on the charge of working with Cerberus? What say you? Shepard: It was necessary. Cerberus had me for 2 years. They brought me back to deal with the reapers, but at the time, colonists were being abducted. TIM, the leader of Cerberus, mentioned the Alliance wasn't doing anything about that. It was hard to believe. I eventually went to the Citadel to talk with Anderson. He told me they thought I was dead. Immediately my first thought is they made no effort to confirm my death. It also confirmed my suspicions after I was at the sight of the SR1 remains where I found the dogtags of the fallen. Then Anderson told me it was up to me to find a way to stop the reapers. That was enough to tell me he, and the Alliance never cared. It got my blood boiling making it easier to remain working with Cerberus. Even though I suspected TIM was giving me the runaround, I stuck with it because he had the information needed to continue with the mission. Had I went back to the Alliance, how different would things have been? Looking back, I would guess a lot more colonists would have been abducted before the Alliance would have stopped the collectors. And given that they didn't care much about anything at that time, how long would it have taken the Alliance to assemble anyone to deal with the collectors. Knowing me, I would have flipped the finger at the Alliance to go back to finish the job with Cerberus. Judge: I take it you don't have any nice things to say about the Alliance? Shepard: Not really your Honor. Things were going well for me even after stopping Saren, but then it seemed the Alliance changed after that. I will also say the leadership is pathetic at best. They locked me up for 6 months because of stupid crap instead of having me looking for clues to stopping the reapers. I was brought before a committee where they were hoping I could tell what the situation was. Why didn't they make any effort to talk with me during the 6 months? It goes back to what I said. They never cared. Judge: Before I give my decision, I find it hard to accept what you said about the Alliance. I have read over a lot of the reports in the years following the loss of the SR1. So there is some truth to what you said. Off the record, I likely would have done the same as you since human lives were at stake. On the record, you could have gone back to the Alliance to tell them you will continue to work with Cerberus while at the same time keeping them informed about what you were doing. Anyways. Case dismissed. One last thing Commander, thank you. Yes, Joker is a traitor as well. Shepard didn't know Ken and Gabby from a hole in the ground before ME2... Ken sets himself up as a traitor to the Alliance with his vocal opposition to the Alliance, which is... he says... in defense of Shepard. Shepard, at the time, has no way of confirming this either. I'm unclear why TIM thinks putting them on the team is of particular benefit to "blinding" Shepard to what Cerberus really is.
That the Alliance thought Shepard was dead has nothing to do with confirming whether the Alliance, as a massive military organization, is doing anything or not to investigate the Reapers. You're pulling at a number of straws. The Alliance believed Shepard was dead because he/she was last seen by Joker on a ship that was blown apart in space. By Jacob's own account, the body that Cerberus eventually recovered would have been "put in a coffin" and there were massive questions (per TIM in ME3) within Cerberus as to whether or not Shepard could be resurrected from the dead. That the Alliance believed Shepard was dead only tells Shepard that Cerberus was keeping the fact that they had the body and were resurrecting it a highly guarded secret. Another fact... when the Alliance did find out that there was a possibility of Shepard being alive, Anderson IMMEDIATELY sent a message to Shepard's email asking him/her to come to the Citadel. Also, they sent Ashley/Kaidan to investigate... at a location where they thought he/she might show up if, rumors were true that he/she was was alive and with Cerberus. The Alliance was also, apparently, investigating the disappearance of those colonies at that time... and trying to arm them as well. That sounds like "doing something" to me.
Another point... The Alliance may also be investigating how Cerberus "knew" that Horizon was going to be the next colony attacked... and that's a good question... and another bit of intel that Tim doesn't reveal to Shepard until after the mission is completed. Why keep Shepard in the dark about the possibility of encountering the Alliance and his/her old squad mate on Horizon... allowing him/her to be "blindsided" yet again... and possibly shaken up by encountered his/her old flame. Anderson, on the other hand, was required to keep A/K's op classified... per the protocols of the Alliance itself... or else Anderson would have committed treason.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 3, 2021 16:45:53 GMT
Them not caring has a lot to do with it. If someone was able to take Shepard's body from the crash site, why couldn't the Alliance get to that spot as well? And Anderson saying it was up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers speaks volumes. It proves they never cared. If they did, they would have done something. Taylor's comment means nothing. If the Alliance are going to use Moreau's statement as proof, then why didn't send a team to that location to investigate who/what was responsible for the attack. Thinking someone is dead and knowing someone is dead are two different things. Anderson sending a message doesn't mean crap. It's too bad my Shepard couldn't get in his face about they're lack of doing anything. As far as the Alliance doing anything. Interesting A/K show up on Horizon to investigate yet why weren't they doing any investigating before Shepard started working with Cerberus?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2021 19:30:19 GMT
Them not caring has a lot to do with it. If someone was able to take Shepard's body from the crash site, why couldn't the Alliance get to that spot as well? And Anderson saying it was up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers speaks volumes. It proves they never cared. If they did, they would have done something. Taylor's comment means nothing. If the Alliance are going to use Moreau's statement as proof, then why didn't send a team to that location to investigate who/what was responsible for the attack. Thinking someone is dead and knowing someone is dead are two different things. Anderson sending a message doesn't mean crap. It's too bad my Shepard couldn't get in his face about they're lack of doing anything. As far as the Alliance doing anything. Interesting A/K show up on Horizon to investigate yet why weren't they doing any investigating before Shepard started working with Cerberus? Since the player can visit the Citadel immediately after completing Freedom's Progress... and A/K is already clearly already on that assignment, it seems clear that they were sent to Horizon some time before Anderson was sure the Shepard was "working with" Cerberus. While on Horizon, it's also made clear that the Alliance has been working to calibrate the Gardian lasers for some time... not to mention the time it would have taken to install them in the first place.
How was Moreau and the others rescued from Alchera without an Alliance team having shown up to take them off the planet... do you think they walked back since their ship was blown up? Obviously, the Alliance must have sent someone out to the crash site... or at least the site where the escape pods landed. There's lots of searches for lost ships and planes that have turned up nothing... but that doesn't mean that a search was never done. Also possible that the Shadow Broker had removed Shepard's body from the site almost immediately... or Cerberus since TIM seems to have the best idea as when and where the Collectors are going to strike... and he/she is talking to Miranda about "not losing Shepard" even before the Normandy is hit.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 3, 2021 21:40:10 GMT
There does seem to be a bit of a plot hole here because we are either left with the possibility that either A. the Alliance found the escape pods and yet didn't know where the crash site was until recently so they sent in Shepard or B. some alternative party picked up the Normandy crew in which case...who? Also why didn't the Collectors um...Collect them?
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