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Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 3, 2021 21:56:52 GMT
There does seem to be a bit of a plot hole here because we are either left with the possibility that either A. the Alliance found the escape pods and yet didn't know where the crash site was until recently so they sent in Shepard or B. some alternative party picked up the Normandy crew in which case...who? Also why didn't the Collectors um...Collect them? Probably because Starkid was updating iTunes. 😆😉 But seriously, who knows? The MET is riddled with potholes and stuff that makes you go "WTF?!". And not in a good way.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 4, 2021 0:59:37 GMT
Since the player can visit the Citadel immediately after completing Freedom's Progress... and A/K is already clearly already on that assignment, it seems clear that they were sent to Horizon some time before Anderson was sure the Shepard was "working with" Cerberus. Is there any in game dialogue hinting that A/K were sent to Horizon? The only thing Anderson say's is Ashley is on a special mission. That could be anything. And if they were in the area to pick up those escape pods, it wouldn't have been hard to located the remains of the SR1. And if there were at the site, why didn't they get the dogtags and helmet? What explanation did they give to Shepard's mother, for those playing a spacer, when she asked questions? How long ago was my child killed? Is there a body? Did you find any personnel effects belonging to my child? Who/what killed my child?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 3:33:43 GMT
Since the player can visit the Citadel immediately after completing Freedom's Progress... and A/K is already clearly already on that assignment, it seems clear that they were sent to Horizon some time before Anderson was sure the Shepard was "working with" Cerberus. Is there any in game dialogue hinting that A/K were sent to Horizon? The only thing Anderson say's is Ashley is on a special mission. That could be anything. And if they were in the area to pick up those escape pods, it wouldn't have been hard to located the remains of the SR1. And if there were at the site, why didn't they get the dogtags and helmet? What explanation did they give to Shepard's mother, for those playing a spacer, when she asked questions? How long ago was my child killed? Is there a body? Did you find any personnel effects belonging to my child? Who/what killed my child? Someone picked up the crew because one cannot fly from Alchera to Omega in an escape pod. If not the Alliance, then who?... and why did A/K wind up back in the Alliance, if it wasn't the Alliance that picked them up. Why did Joker say the he left the Alliance after the whole team was broken up and that the Alliance didn't like all the non-humans on Shepard's crew. You say it wouldn't be hard to find the crash site, but as I said, lots of plane crashes are never found. The escape pods could have landed on the other side of the planet since they are not found by Shepard when he/she is at the crash site. Shepard's body could have also "crashed' hundreds of miles away from the crash site... or never crashed into the planet at all. It's obvious that the Alliance did not find Shepard... again, that doesn't mean they didn't look... and it doesn't preclude someone else (like a agent for the Shadow Broker) having found him/her before the Alliance arrived on the scene. I'm sure Hannah Shepard was told that her son was MIA - Presumed dead. She wouldn't be the first mom to have to accept such news.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 4, 2021 4:19:30 GMT
It's obvious that the Alliance did not find Shepard... again, that doesn't mean they didn't look... and it doesn't preclude someone else (like a agent for the Shadow Broker) having found him/her before the Alliance arrived on the scene. If someone was able to find that site, then take Shepard's body, then why couldn't the Alliance find that site? Even if they didn't find Shepard, why couldn't they find the remains of the SR1. Shepard's helmet is at the crash site. The dogtags for the fallen are there. They could investigate the site to give them an idea who/what destroyed the SR1. What answer will they give when she asks if they're searching for her child? Even if a mother accepts that, most, if not all, would make an effort to keep on asking for updates. If it was your son that is MIA, what would you do?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 4, 2021 5:05:58 GMT
What answer will they give when she asks if they're searching for her child? Even if a mother accepts that, most, if not all, would make an effort to keep on asking for updates. If it was your son that is MIA, what would you do? She is an officer in the Alliance. She more than anyone would know that bodies aren’t always recovered, same as people in navies today.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 9:20:58 GMT
It's obvious that the Alliance did not find Shepard... again, that doesn't mean they didn't look... and it doesn't preclude someone else (like a agent for the Shadow Broker) having found him/her before the Alliance arrived on the scene. If someone was able to find that site, then take Shepard's body, then why couldn't the Alliance find that site? Even if they didn't find Shepard, why couldn't they find the remains of the SR1. Shepard's helmet is at the crash site. The dogtags for the fallen are there. They could investigate the site to give them an idea who/what destroyed the SR1. What answer will they give when she asks if they're searching for her child? Even if a mother accepts that, most, if not all, would make an effort to keep on asking for updates. If it was your son that is MIA, what would you do? Again, you're assuming Shepard's body "landed" close to where the Normandy crashed... which is probably not the case given that he/she was blown away from the ship when it exploded and is seen falling or going into an orbit around the planet alone... away from the ship.
Again, you're assuming that Hannah's asking for updates would result in something more... As long as the Alliance could not find a body (which they couldn't because the Shadow Broker and then Cerberus had it), the only response she would reasonably have gotten was that Shepard was MIA - Presumed Dead. AFAIK, there is no actual set time limit in Alberta for when a missing person can be declared dead in order to allow for things like their estate to be probated, but that seems to be what happened with Shepard ultimately since a memorial exists. That may be why Bioware wrote the story such that Shepard was missing for two years. People process a "missing person" at different rates and it also depends on the circumstances under which the person went missing. For all we know, it may have been Hannah's decision to eventually "give up" on the search for her son/daughter and move forward with things like processing the estate and having a memorial... again, considering that the last place he/she was seen was aboard a ship that was exploding violently (a circumstance that practically no one would be expected to survive without an escape pod).
I also tend to think that the Normandy Crash Site DLC compresses the debris field from the ship into a much smaller area than is realistic. In reality, much more of the ship would have completely disintegrated as it fell from orbit around the planet and the debris would like be spread over many, many miles, perhaps even hundreds of miles... given that it broke up in orbit (since even planes that break up in the air can spread debris over many miles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 10:53:22 GMT
Since the player can visit the Citadel immediately after completing Freedom's Progress... and A/K is already clearly already on that assignment, it seems clear that they were sent to Horizon some time before Anderson was sure the Shepard was "working with" Cerberus. Is there any in game dialogue hinting that A/K were sent to Horizon? The only thing Anderson say's is Ashley is on a special mission. That could be anything. As for dialogue specific to A/K being on Horizon... actually there is. After speaking with Anderson just after Freedom's Progress and then after doing Horizon, you can go back to Anderson and inquire specifically about A/K being on Horizon... and he'll admit it. (Sorry, I didn't respond with this earlier... my memory still works... just sometimes not as quickly as I'd like).
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Sundance31us
N5
Mostly Harmless
BSNer since 2010
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,826 Likes: 8,374
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Sundance31us
BSNer since 2010
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Mar 15, 2018 11:36:29 GMT
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sundance31us
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/gTLlB6P.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on Aug 4, 2021 10:55:00 GMT
Reference:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 11:08:45 GMT
I think I accknowledged already that it was the Shadow Broker who recovered Shepard's "corpse." It still doesn't imply that the corpse was found in proximity to the Normandy Crash site... just that it was eventually found on the planet... how it didn't disintegrate completely on entry to the atmosphere is a mystery though. Alchera's atmosphere is described as being "thick" and comprised of "methane and ammonia"... so I think there still would be friction developed when objects enter it, but I'm not an astrophysicist.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 4, 2021 11:36:58 GMT
What answer will they give when she asks if they're searching for her child? Even if a mother accepts that, most, if not all, would make an effort to keep on asking for updates. If it was your son that is MIA, what would you do? She is an officer in the Alliance. She more than anyone would know that bodies aren’t always recovered, same as people in navies today. So? What answer will she get when asked if they recovered any personnel belongings of her child? Who/what killed my child? How about answering the questions from family members of the ones who died? What about questions from reporters. Did you find the remains of the SR1? Why was the SR1 attacked? What is the Alliance doing to protect ships from being attacked by this unknown enemy? Where was the SR1 attacked? How much resources is the Alliance committing to finding the one's responsible? Is the council helping? If someone was able to find that site, then take Shepard's body, then why couldn't the Alliance find that site? Even if they didn't find Shepard, why couldn't they find the remains of the SR1. Shepard's helmet is at the crash site. The dogtags for the fallen are there. They could investigate the site to give them an idea who/what destroyed the SR1. What answer will they give when she asks if they're searching for her child? Even if a mother accepts that, most, if not all, would make an effort to keep on asking for updates. If it was your son that is MIA, what would you do? Again, you're assuming Shepard's body "landed" close to where the Normandy crashed... which is probably not the case given that he/she was blown away from the ship when it exploded and is seen falling or going into an orbit around the planet alone... away from the ship. Again you're ignoring that someone did find the body to take. If that someone could find the body, then why couldn't the Alliance find the crash site? Seeing the helmet at the site suggests the body was in that area for whoever to recover. In the above post, it says the blue suns were able to recover the corpse. Does that mean the blue Suns are better at locating whatever than the Alliance? It appears that is true. Maybe the Alliance needs to upgrade their scanning equipment.
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Sundance31us
N5
Mostly Harmless
BSNer since 2010
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,826 Likes: 8,374
inherit
Mostly Harmless
9974
0
8,374
Sundance31us
BSNer since 2010
3,826
Mar 15, 2018 11:36:29 GMT
March 2018
sundance31us
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/gTLlB6P.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on Aug 4, 2021 14:16:21 GMT
I think I accknowledged already that it was the Shadow Broker who recovered Shepard's "corpse." It still doesn't imply that the corpse was found in proximity to the Normandy Crash site... just that it was eventually found on the planet... how it didn't disintegrate completely on entry to the atmosphere is a mystery though. Alchera's atmosphere is described as being "thick" and comprised of "methane and ammonia"... so I think there still would be friction developed when objects enter it, but I'm not an astrophysicist. Well...the Blue Suns recovered the remains on behalf of the SB and I know that's nit-picking, but my impression is that the Blue Suns were on the scene very quickly. We know from Mass Effect: Incursion that the Blue Suns were also capturing humans for the Collectors (that story takes place two weeks before the Normandy is attacked). I signed into my Dark Horse account...
Liara: Dead? Feron: Yes -- or very close to it. It's hard to say. The body has been recovered in some kind of stasis pod -- if not dead, then certainly not alive... Blue Sun 1: Identification looks right. Is this everything your found? Blue Sun 2: Yup, surprised there was that much -- human body must be able to take some real punishment. Miranda: -- we may not be able to restore Shepard after all. The body is in worse shape than expected.
I believe the opening cinematic in ME2 shows the state of Shepard's body when it was recovered.
Outside of the Crash Site DLC the only other image we have of where the body was recovered is from ME2's teaser... We know Legion arrived after the Blue Suns had recovered the body and used the piece of armor on itself. Note: Legion has the front piece of Shep's armor and Liara has the back on display in her Ilium apartment.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 14:45:16 GMT
She is an officer in the Alliance. She more than anyone would know that bodies aren’t always recovered, same as people in navies today. So? What answer will she get when asked if they recovered any personnel belongings of her child? Who/what killed my child? How about answering the questions from family members of the ones who died? What about questions from reporters. Did you find the remains of the SR1? Why was the SR1 attacked? What is the Alliance doing to protect ships from being attacked by this unknown enemy? Where was the SR1 attacked? How much resources is the Alliance committing to finding the one's responsible? Is the council helping? Again, you're assuming Shepard's body "landed" close to where the Normandy crashed... which is probably not the case given that he/she was blown away from the ship when it exploded and is seen falling or going into an orbit around the planet alone... away from the ship. Again you're ignoring that someone did find the body to take. If that someone could find the body, then why couldn't the Alliance find the crash site? Seeing the helmet at the site suggests the body was in that area for whoever to recover. In the above post, it says the blue suns were able to recover the corpse. Does that mean the blue Suns are better at locating whatever than the Alliance? It appears that is true. Maybe the Alliance needs to upgrade their scanning equipment. Those are the questions you insist on asking... We don't know if Hannah asked them and, if so, what answers she was given. That's not written into the game. Head canon whatever you like... and I'll head canon whatever I like in those regards. You love Cerberus and hate the Alliance, so you're going to head canon to support your biases... but it's still your head canon.
All we know is that the Alliance did not find the body. They did eventually found the crash site; but did not find 20 dog tags and a helmet (unknown whether or not it was the helmet Shepard was wearing at the time of the crash, since Shepard obviously has acquired more than one in all the games.)
We know that A/K was on Horizon as soon as Shepard sees Anderson... which can occur immediately after Freedom's Progress. We know that the Alliance was in the process of setting up a Gardian Laser. Another thing we know... Delan told us outright that he thought the Collectors were "just propaganda to keep them in Alliance space." - so obviously someone (and it wasn't Cerberus) was telling them about the Collectors being a threat to remote colonies before Shepard gets to Horizon. We know that the Alliance was not stretched very thin, as TIM claimed. We know that Shepard did not present Veetor's evidence to Anderson or the Council on the Citadel. We know that TIM knew the Collector Ship was a trap. We know that Dr. Chandana's team had been established on the Derelict Reaper long enough to become completely indoctrinated and turned into husks at least 4 days before Shepard arrived (because the VI tells us the ship had gone 4 days without a workplace death). We know that TIM suspected the Collectors were involved even before he sent the team to Freedom's Progress (because he says as much). We know he suspected they used a special IFF to get through the Omega 4 relay (again because he says as much). We know he doesn't tell Shpeard about the trap on the Collector Ship nor does he mention the IFF until after the mission. We know both Liara and Cerberus knew for 2 years that Shepard was not dead... and did not inform the Alliance of that fact.
We also know that, upon waking up, the only information Shepard gets comes from Cerberus... so, ultimately, he/she agrees to work with Cerberus without being able to verify for himself/herself whether or not the Alliance is doing something already or not... and that alone makes him/her a willing traitor to the Alliance. The onus was on Shepard to talk with Anderson and the Council BEFORE agreeing to work with Cerberus.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 4, 2021 15:56:01 GMT
Regardless of whatever, if someone was able to find Shepard's corpse, and going by the dlc showing Shepard's helmet being at the site, the Alliance could have found that location as well. Did Bioware purposely do that to have a dlc so Shepard can reflect on whatever?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 16:46:30 GMT
Regardless of whatever, if someone was able to find Shepard's corpse, and going by the dlc showing Shepard's helmet being at the site, the Alliance could have found that location as well. Did Bioware purposely do that to have a dlc so Shepard can reflect on whatever? Again... sure, they could have found the body if it was still there when they got there. The Blue Sun may have just gotten their first. They also didn't find 20 dog tags and a helmet... maybe their search team didn't really comb the wreckage looking for dog tags or maybe they were more interested in taking away hardware or software that revealed Alliance secrets instead. At any rate... no escape pods are found at the site, so the living crew did land somewhere else. Shepard was still last seen being blown up with the ship, so it's not that big a stretch that Shepard was presumed dead. Again... Liara knew he/she was alive... why didn't see tell Anderson or Hackett? From his email, Anderson is clearly not sure that Shepard is alive.
For sure, the Normandy Crash Site DLC was indeed to have the player reflect on it... and to add 20 names to the memorial wall (that really mean nothing to the player since none of those anmes, save Pressly, are recognizable from ME1). It's been a long time since I've played without the DLC installed, so I honestly can't say for sure anymore whether those names magically appear on the memorial wall even if the DLC is not installed.
I also think they were showing of their Northern Lights animation. If certainly wasn't put in to prove the Alliance never searched for Shepard. Also, a lot of "stuff" is in the game that doesn't properly consider the length of time that has passed since ME1. Why, for examle, are many of the news stories covering events from ME1... if not just to have the player connect to them because they were in ME1. Realistically, most of them would not be news 2 years after the fact.
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