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Post by lordmoral on Nov 29, 2021 18:01:46 GMT
Maybe if Mac Walters was gone from ME3 we would not have had the ending to me3 we did. You never really know how these things come about in and organization. ME3 and MEA failed in ME2, while I love the game it is a half backed entry that only focused on few issues and left the rest either in the air or ignored them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 29, 2021 18:16:26 GMT
I guess it's the weekend, most folk probably aren't working at the weekend. Well it's not the weekend anymore. Guess we're not going to hear anything further.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Nov 29, 2021 18:29:25 GMT
I guess it's the weekend, most folk probably aren't working at the weekend. Well it's not the weekend anymore. Guess we're not going to hear anything further. I agree with others we probably aren't hearing anything until a replacement is found. Even then I wouldn't be surprised if they just talk about the new Creative Director and don't even mention Matt Goldman. Otherwise saying something now without a replacement just extends a negative news story.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 29, 2021 18:51:48 GMT
Well, if I still cared at all about DA, I would be concerned about this. Thankfully. DA ruined itself with it's stupid Narrative decisions long ago. As for Matt in particular. Remember Mike Laidlaw said after Witcher 3 came out, that DA3 would have more heavily borrowed from Witcher had it came out before DAI did. So I would bet money people above Matt wants a more ridiculously depressing dark tone like the Witcher, where everyone in the world is the shittiest person of all time on some level, and Matt wanted to keep the somewhat hopeful tone that DAI inspired. Just my two cents. If you truly believe this, then either you didn't play The Witcher 3, or we played different games. In my experience, while W3 certainly showed more of it's darkside in cutscenes, the overall tone wasn't that much darker than the first two DA games. Both worlds had complex characters and dilemmas with no easy answers. There were exceptions, but I saw mostly flawed heroes, sympathetic villians, and regular people just trying to get by.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Nov 29, 2021 19:20:01 GMT
God I hope someone has a scoop
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Post by andydandymandy on Nov 29, 2021 19:48:59 GMT
Maybe if Mac Walters was gone from ME3 we would not have had the ending to me3 we did. You never really know how these things come about in and organization. Wasn't the ending of ME3 Casey Hudson's baby?
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Post by therevanchist25 on Nov 29, 2021 21:21:39 GMT
Well, if I still cared at all about DA, I would be concerned about this. Thankfully. DA ruined itself with it's stupid Narrative decisions long ago. As for Matt in particular. Remember Mike Laidlaw said after Witcher 3 came out, that DA3 would have more heavily borrowed from Witcher had it came out before DAI did. So I would bet money people above Matt wants a more ridiculously depressing dark tone like the Witcher, where everyone in the world is the shittiest person of all time on some level, and Matt wanted to keep the somewhat hopeful tone that DAI inspired. Just my two cents. If you truly believe this, then either you didn't play The Witcher 3, or we played different games. In my experience, while W3 certainly showed more of it's darkside in cutscenes, the overall tone wasn't that much darker than the first two DA games. Both worlds had complex characters and dilemmas with no easy answers. There were exceptions, but I saw mostly flawed heroes, sympathetic villians, and regular people just trying to get by. Yea, no. I've played all 3 games, and the third game 3 times. I know exactly what franchise I played sir. None of the villain's are sympathetic either, idk what dream world your living in with that take. Eren is a merciless, racist slaver. Gaunter is literally the Devil, The Crones are scum of the lowest kind that eat children, Emir is an egomaniacal scumbag who wants to fuck his daughter, Radovid is a literally mentally insane ass hole who publicly burns people that are even slightly different. Whoreson Junior...do I even need to elaborate? didn't think so. Syanna kills scores of people over petty revenge against someone who had no power to do anything about it because of events of a magical omen she was born under, which, in case you forgot, actually means something in the setting. Alvin tries to kill and butcher entire groups of people to maintain "order" and for little actual reason. Henselt was a disgusting boot licker who raped Ves and slaughters Mahakamen if he captures the city. Philipa forcefully brainwashes a dragon to be a slave to her will, and nevermind the countless other atrocities across the books she's done that would take too many paragraphs to describe. Olgierd was literally a violent, ruthless raider who butchered and robbed from people, BEFORE he met Gaunter. Birna slaughtered a ton of innocent people at a friendly feast for a petty power grab. I'm sorry which villian is sympathetic again? Dijkstra? He's not a villain. Philip Strenger? Not a villain either.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 30, 2021 3:00:55 GMT
If you truly believe this, then either you didn't play The Witcher 3, or we played different games. In my experience, while W3 certainly showed more of it's darkside in cutscenes, the overall tone wasn't that much darker than the first two DA games. Both worlds had complex characters and dilemmas with no easy answers. There were exceptions, but I saw mostly flawed heroes, sympathetic villians, and regular people just trying to get by. Yea, no. I've played all 3 games, and the third game 3 times. I know exactly what franchise I played sir. None of the villain's are sympathetic either, idk what dream world your living in with that take. Eren is a merciless, racist slaver. Gaunter is literally the Devil, The Crones are scum of the lowest kind that eat children, Emir is an egomaniacal scumbag who wants to fuck his daughter, Radovid is a literally mentally insane ass hole who publicly burns people that are even slightly different. Whoreson Junior...do I even need to elaborate? didn't think so. Syanna kills scores of people over petty revenge against someone who had no power to do anything about it because of events of a magical omen she was born under, which, in case you forgot, actually means something in the setting. Alvin tries to kill and butcher entire groups of people to maintain "order" and for little actual reason. Henselt was a disgusting boot licker who raped Ves and slaughters Mahakamen if he captures the city. Philipa forcefully brainwashes a dragon to be a slave to her will, and nevermind the countless other atrocities across the books she's done that would take too many paragraphs to describe. Olgierd was literally a violent, ruthless raider who butchered and robbed from people, BEFORE he met Gaunter. Birna slaughtered a ton of innocent people at a friendly feast for a petty power grab. I'm sorry which villian is sympathetic again? Dijkstra? He's not a villain. Philip Strenger? Not a villain either. A few things: -In my previous post, I did specify that I knew there were exceptions, that the series had plenty of monsters along with grey characters. -Given a villain's history, motives and context of their situation, I can sympathize with particular characters and still acknowledge they need to be held accountable. -So if Sylvia being born under The Curse of the Black Sun actually means something in the setting, is she even responsible, or a victim of fate? You can't have it both ways. -You don't find Philip or Dijkstra to be villians. I do, as well as Letho and many others with grey motives. -I suppose my biggest issue with your "everyone is the shittiest person ever" generalization is how often I found the opposite. Yes, The Witcher is dark fantasy, but I encountered so many scenes of love, faith and hope, camaraderie and fellowship, valor and humor, remorse and possible redemption. If the darkness was too much for your own tastes, fair enough, but you can't deny that's all there is to the series. -Finally, if you really dislike The Witcher much, why play the games multiple times?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 30, 2021 3:59:43 GMT
The less DA is like The Witcher, the better.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 30, 2021 5:56:27 GMT
Maybe if Mac Walters was gone from ME3 we would not have had the ending to me3 we did. You never really know how these things come about in and organization. Wasn't the ending of ME3 Casey Hudson's baby? The stories are that the two of them did it over a short period of time together while the rest of the team finished other areas of the game.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 30, 2021 6:06:26 GMT
I don't know what to really make of this Matt Goldman's departure, it seems different then the majority of other departures I have seen from the company. The only one that seemed even more low key was Chris Schlerf when he left BioWare Montreal, but looking back it felt like he was a hired gun to be the lead writer for the game and then move on.
I am not going to just blame EA for this departure for there can be many reasons to why the departure happened, but as I said above it is coming across as different then other BioWare departures I can think of.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 30, 2021 12:38:55 GMT
If you truly believe this, then either you didn't play The Witcher 3, or we played different games. In my experience, while W3 certainly showed more of it's darkside in cutscenes, the overall tone wasn't that much darker than the first two DA games. Both worlds had complex characters and dilemmas with no easy answers. There were exceptions, but I saw mostly flawed heroes, sympathetic villians, and regular people just trying to get by. Yea, no. I've played all 3 games, and the third game 3 times. I know exactly what franchise I played sir. None of the villain's are sympathetic either, idk what dream world your living in with that take. Eren is a merciless, racist slaver. Gaunter is literally the Devil, The Crones are scum of the lowest kind that eat children, Emir is an egomaniacal scumbag who wants to fuck his daughter, Radovid is a literally mentally insane ass hole who publicly burns people that are even slightly different. Whoreson Junior...do I even need to elaborate? didn't think so. Syanna kills scores of people over petty revenge against someone who had no power to do anything about it because of events of a magical omen she was born under, which, in case you forgot, actually means something in the setting. Alvin tries to kill and butcher entire groups of people to maintain "order" and for little actual reason. Henselt was a disgusting boot licker who raped Ves and slaughters Mahakamen if he captures the city. Philipa forcefully brainwashes a dragon to be a slave to her will, and nevermind the countless other atrocities across the books she's done that would take too many paragraphs to describe. Olgierd was literally a violent, ruthless raider who butchered and robbed from people, BEFORE he met Gaunter. Birna slaughtered a ton of innocent people at a friendly feast for a petty power grab. I'm sorry which villian is sympathetic again? Dijkstra? He's not a villain. Philip Strenger? Not a villain either. Dijkstra wasn't a "villain" but he is a dark character or grey if you prefer. He may be a much better leader then radovid but in order to take power he kills his allies Roache and Vess who did nothing to him and were just fighting for their country in TW3. No Roache was a man who slaughtered elves who did nothing in his fight against the scoiateil -spelled that wrong- and in TW2 iorveth was fighting for freedom and equality sure but he killed innocent people just to cause fear. Yes there are some characters who are pure evil but the main story of TW3 is that noone is perfect. As for Alvin he was trying to fight the frost- can't remember the bloody name- and while he was wrong he was trying to do the right thing in his mind. So while there was clearly evil characters ALOT of it was how the vast majority of people are grey.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 30, 2021 13:01:58 GMT
The only thing less useful that sitting around imagining all the reason Matt Goldman quit/was fired based on no information is sitting around arguing about The Witcher in a Dragon Age thread.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 30, 2021 13:32:12 GMT
The less DA is like The Witcher, the better. So you've played and beat any of The Witcher games? Given them a fair shake and not simply dismissed them out of prejudice? Ultimately, for me such comparisons are less about The Witcher, and more about the future of Dragon Age. Given some of the dev comments, many fear that fans who liked and supported DA's dark adult fantasy will be betrayed for the lowest common denominator. That it's soul will be violated into the kind of Forgotten Realms-lite tale DA was originally meant to deconstruct. With all the tone and complexity of a Saturday Morning Cartoon. We all knew that Dragon Age was dark adult fantasy coming in. Frankly Hanako, given some your stances , I'm surprised you stuck it out past Origins. If you prefer Idealistic media so much, what's wrong with seeking that out, and letting Dragon Age keep it's own unique identity?
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Post by bear on Nov 30, 2021 14:27:00 GMT
Aside from the names I remember being associated with Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, I don't really feel any connection to the lives and personalities of the developers themselves. I do wish them well and appreciate their work, however, and as a matter of course want not just the department heads but everyone who works on the project to have good working conditions, a respectful working environment and fair pay. From that perspective, I care less about why this guy quit and any drama surrounding why - and more about if the team is now better off or not, as in if the developers from high to low seem generally to be in a better mood than usual. The best way to gauge this, I guess, is for those interested to look at the individual social media posts by the team and see if the tone of their posts are more, or less, positive than before the guy quit.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Nov 30, 2021 16:41:04 GMT
Yea, no. I've played all 3 games, and the third game 3 times. I know exactly what franchise I played sir. None of the villain's are sympathetic either, idk what dream world your living in with that take. Eren is a merciless, racist slaver. Gaunter is literally the Devil, The Crones are scum of the lowest kind that eat children, Emir is an egomaniacal scumbag who wants to fuck his daughter, Radovid is a literally mentally insane ass hole who publicly burns people that are even slightly different. Whoreson Junior...do I even need to elaborate? didn't think so. Syanna kills scores of people over petty revenge against someone who had no power to do anything about it because of events of a magical omen she was born under, which, in case you forgot, actually means something in the setting. Alvin tries to kill and butcher entire groups of people to maintain "order" and for little actual reason. Henselt was a disgusting boot licker who raped Ves and slaughters Mahakamen if he captures the city. Philipa forcefully brainwashes a dragon to be a slave to her will, and nevermind the countless other atrocities across the books she's done that would take too many paragraphs to describe. Olgierd was literally a violent, ruthless raider who butchered and robbed from people, BEFORE he met Gaunter. Birna slaughtered a ton of innocent people at a friendly feast for a petty power grab. I'm sorry which villian is sympathetic again? Dijkstra? He's not a villain. Philip Strenger? Not a villain either. Dijkstra wasn't a "villain" but he is a dark character or grey if you prefer. He may be a much better leader then radovid but in order to take power he kills his allies Roache and Vess who did nothing to him and were just fighting for their country in TW3. No Roache was a man who slaughtered elves who did nothing in his fight against the scoiateil -spelled that wrong- and in TW2 iorveth was fighting for freedom and equality sure but he killed innocent people just to cause fear. Yes there are some characters who are pure evil but the main story of TW3 is that noone is perfect. As for Alvin he was trying to fight the frost- can't remember the bloody name- and while he was wrong he was trying to do the right thing in his mind. So while there was clearly evil characters ALOT of it was how the vast majority of people are grey. I'm sorry to break this to people...but Dijkstra and Roach are the exact same person. Roach would have absolutely sold out Geralt, or anyone else, without a moment's hesitation if he thought it would save Temeria. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. They are both the fanatical patriot. Roach sold out the entire North so his country would remain as a fake slave state to the Empire, so to say they did "nothing" to him is quite a leap in logic. They sacrificed Redania, something Roach would never accept if the roles were reversed. Alvin "trying to do the right thing in his mind" means bloody nothing sir. No villain sees themselves as a villain. His actions were excessive and unjustifiable. Nothing he was doing would have had any effect on the White Frost, as evidenced by how Ciri stopped it. Every major character in the franchise is an asshole, on some level. Is that realistic? kind of, is that something I wanna play? a few times at most. Everyone says Witcher is a world of grey, but in order for Grey to exist, there must be people who are White to balance out the Black, and Witcher has absolutely none of those people. There is not a single individual in the franchise I can look at and justify their mentality. Everyone is a selfish ass, who occasionally does something nice, when it has no effect on their selfish goals. I'm sorry but that's just a little too cynical. I know it's popular right now to view real life as being exactly like that, and I'm sorry but that's not entirely accurate. Witcher has no Ghandi's, no Dalí Lama, no Louis Pasteur, no Martin Luther King Jr, etc etc. The real world has legitimately good people, who do great things for society. Witcher does not. It's artificially bleak and cynical because that's the artsy fartsy take on society that everyone thinks is cool.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 30, 2021 16:54:17 GMT
Dijkstra wasn't a "villain" but he is a dark character or grey if you prefer. He may be a much better leader then radovid but in order to take power he kills his allies Roache and Vess who did nothing to him and were just fighting for their country in TW3. No Roache was a man who slaughtered elves who did nothing in his fight against the scoiateil -spelled that wrong- and in TW2 iorveth was fighting for freedom and equality sure but he killed innocent people just to cause fear. Yes there are some characters who are pure evil but the main story of TW3 is that noone is perfect. As for Alvin he was trying to fight the frost- can't remember the bloody name- and while he was wrong he was trying to do the right thing in his mind. So while there was clearly evil characters ALOT of it was how the vast majority of people are grey. I'm sorry to break this to people...but Dijkstra and Roach are the exact same person. Roach would have absolutely sold out Geralt, or anyone else, without a moment's hesitation if he thought it would save Temeria. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. They are both the fanatical patriot. Roach sold out the entire North so his country would remain as a fake slave state to the Empire, so to say they did "nothing" to him is quite a leap in logic. They sacrificed Redania, something Roach would never accept if the roles were reversed. Alvin "trying to do the right thing in his mind" means bloody nothing sir. No villain sees themselves as a villain. His actions were excessive and unjustifiable. Nothing he was doing would have had any effect on the White Frost, as evidenced by how Ciri stopped it. Every major character in the franchise is an asshole, on some level. Is that realistic? kind of, is that something I wanna play? a few times at most. Everyone says Witcher is a world of grey, but in order for Grey to exist, there must be people who are White to balance out the Black, and Witcher has absolutely none of those people. There is not a single individual in the franchise I can look at and justify their mentality. Everyone is a selfish ass, who occasionally does something nice, when it has no effect on their selfish goals. I'm sorry but that's just a little too cynical. I know it's popular right now to view real life as being exactly like that, and I'm sorry but that's not entirely accurate. Witcher has no Ghandi's, no Dalí Lama, no Louis Pasteur, no Martin Luther King Jr, etc etc. The real world has legitimately good people, who do great things for society. Witcher does not. It's artificially bleak and cynical because that's the artsy fartsy take on society that everyone thinks is cool. Yes they are both ruthless patriots but they had entered into an agreement and dijkstra then betrayed roache and vess and the other men. Sorry that you didn't like the game my point was the witcher had alot of grey not that everyone was an angel.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 1, 2021 14:35:33 GMT
This is kinda like Brian Kelly's abrupt exit from Notre Dame with even the courtesy to tell his players.
They had to read about it on Social Media/Media news outlets.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 1, 2021 15:57:02 GMT
So another one has left Bio?
Meh.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 1, 2021 16:09:03 GMT
I'm sorry to break this to people...but Dijkstra and Roach are the exact same person. Roach would have absolutely sold out Geralt, or anyone else, without a moment's hesitation if he thought it would save Temeria. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself. They are both the fanatical patriot. Roach sold out the entire North so his country would remain as a fake slave state to the Empire, so to say they did "nothing" to him is quite a leap in logic. They sacrificed Redania, something Roach would never accept if the roles were reversed. Alvin "trying to do the right thing in his mind" means bloody nothing sir. No villain sees themselves as a villain. His actions were excessive and unjustifiable. Nothing he was doing would have had any effect on the White Frost, as evidenced by how Ciri stopped it. Every major character in the franchise is an asshole, on some level. Is that realistic? kind of, is that something I wanna play? a few times at most. Everyone says Witcher is a world of grey, but in order for Grey to exist, there must be people who are White to balance out the Black, and Witcher has absolutely none of those people. There is not a single individual in the franchise I can look at and justify their mentality. Everyone is a selfish ass, who occasionally does something nice, when it has no effect on their selfish goals. I'm sorry but that's just a little too cynical. I know it's popular right now to view real life as being exactly like that, and I'm sorry but that's not entirely accurate. Witcher has no Ghandi's, no Dalí Lama, no Louis Pasteur, no Martin Luther King Jr, etc etc. The real world has legitimately good people, who do great things for society. Witcher does not. It's artificially bleak and cynical because that's the artsy fartsy take on society that everyone thinks is cool. Yes they are both ruthless patriots but they had entered into an agreement and dijkstra then betrayed roache and vess and the other men. Sorry that you didn't like the game my point was the witcher had alot of grey not that everyone was an angel. I did enjoy the game, I'm just not under some illusion that the game is Grey in any possible way, or in any way remotely realistic with it's overwhelming cynicism. And once again, sure, they had an agreement to get rid of Radovid. They did. If you think Roach would have honored such a deal if the role was reversed, you are again lying to yourself.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 1, 2021 16:11:20 GMT
This is kinda like Brian Kelly's abrupt exit from Notre Dame with even the courtesy to tell his players. They had to read about it on Social Media/Media news outlets. But in his case....$100 million.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 1, 2021 17:05:55 GMT
Yes they are both ruthless patriots but they had entered into an agreement and dijkstra then betrayed roache and vess and the other men. Sorry that you didn't like the game my point was the witcher had alot of grey not that everyone was an angel. I did enjoy the game, I'm just not under some illusion that the game is Grey in any possible way, or in any way remotely realistic with it's overwhelming cynicism. And once again, sure, they had an agreement to get rid of Radovid. They did. If you think Roach would have honored such a deal if the role was reversed, you are again lying to yourself. No roache would not have hesitated. Unfortunetly while the witcher 3 is cynical it is accurate in terms of politics and foreign policy. Look at the big players on the world stage and you will see stuff that makes you sick and not just "bad" countries and no not just america enginnering coups either. In terms of world politics the witcher is unfortunetly pretty accurate in terms of tone. Now is every other person a murder and/or rapist? No they are not.
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Post by necrowaif on Dec 1, 2021 18:14:36 GMT
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FiendishlyInventive
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XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Dec 1, 2021 19:09:35 GMT
Bleeding talent.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 1, 2021 19:51:04 GMT
Eh. Executive Producer and Studio Manager leave? Those are concerning signs. Creative Director leaves? That doesn't help. But the VO Director? Yeah, that's an important position, but Caroline leaving is nowhere near as concerning as Goldman, or Darrah and Hudson. Likewise, while the voice-acting is a prominent and important part of the game, it's nowhere near as essential as, y'know, actually heading the development and/or creative process of the entire game.I'm sorry, but calling this a sign of the end times is an absolute reach and a half.
Best of luck to Caroline.
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