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Post by colfoley on Dec 1, 2021 20:18:50 GMT
Eh. Executive Producer and Studio Manager leave? Those are concerning signs. Creative Director leaves? That doesn't help. But the VO Director? Yeah, that's an important position, but Caroline leaving is nowhere near as concerning as Goldman, or Darrah and Hudson. Likewise, while the voice-acting is a prominent and important part of the game, it's nowhere near as essential as, y'know, actually heading the development and/or creative process of the entire game.I'm sorry, but calling this a sign of the end times is an absolute reach and a half.
Best of luck to Caroline.
I wouldn't be so sure of this. Now this hopefully does work either way and even all the way down but really any properly run organization often runs from the ground up and not the other way around. The grunts, the NCOs, the experienced people and doers who have been there for awhile. Management can come and go but really its the middle managers and grunt level people who do the doing. And hopefully they are in as late stage of development that the Creative Directors or Executive Producers just have to be inserted into the wheel and follow the plan which had already been laid out by their predecessors. But loosing good actual talent who knows how things work? Could wind up hurting in the end. Afterall people make decisions but there still have to be people to execute those decisions and know how best to do so.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Dec 1, 2021 21:48:41 GMT
Absolutely correct.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 1, 2021 22:24:31 GMT
Why do people try to make distinctions when it comes to people leaving a company? So what if she's only the manager for VO talent. That's an experiential knowledge base that's being loss. You're only outcome is to either have someone who doesn't have the same level of expertise fill that role, or bring in someone who does (which might cost most money, or money they don't have).
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 1, 2021 22:34:35 GMT
Eh. Executive Producer and Studio Manager leave? Those are concerning signs. Creative Director leaves? That doesn't help. But the VO Director? Yeah, that's an important position, but Caroline leaving is nowhere near as concerning as Goldman, or Darrah and Hudson. Likewise, while the voice-acting is a prominent and important part of the game, it's nowhere near as essential as, y'know, actually heading the development and/or creative process of the entire game.I'm sorry, but calling this a sign of the end times is an absolute reach and a half.
Best of luck to Caroline.
Here's a "reach and a half" - All the so called important people named above are responsible for the Lost Decade at Biower. Some more responsible, some less, some probably not at all - but 10 years of dev hell and sub-par games. Place blame where you will, but surely those "heading development and/or creative process" share much. If the VO director leaves, probably not a good portent, but if those directly accountable for the last decade are gone, I call it good, and more's the better.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 1, 2021 22:35:58 GMT
Why do people try to make distinctions when it comes to people leaving a company? So what if she's only the manager for VO talent. That's an experiential knowledge base that's being loss. You're only outcome is to either have someone who doesn't have the same level of expertise fill that role, or bring in someone who does (which might cost most money, or money they don't have). For the same reason a CEO leaving a major film studio (or any large company, really) is news and a senior accountant or sales manager isn't? My interest in Goldman leaving is purely based on the weirdness around the announcement and lack of commentary from other Bioware devs. I am far less concerned than I was when Darrah and Laidlaw left, because they'd both shipped DA games I have loved. Goldman was an unknown to me (beyond seeing him on a panel when Mike was promoting DAI). Some will have doom and gloom responses, and that's fine, but I think at most we'll see a delay (if anything).
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 1, 2021 22:51:36 GMT
Eh. Executive Producer and Studio Manager leave? Those are concerning signs. Creative Director leaves? That doesn't help. But the VO Director? Yeah, that's an important position, but Caroline leaving is nowhere near as concerning as Goldman, or Darrah and Hudson. Likewise, while the voice-acting is a prominent and important part of the game, it's nowhere near as essential as, y'know, actually heading the development and/or creative process of the entire game.I'm sorry, but calling this a sign of the end times is an absolute reach and a half.
Best of luck to Caroline.
Here's a "reach and a half" - All the so called important people named above are responsible for the Lost Decade at Biower. Some more responsible, some less, some probably not at all - but 10 years of dev hell and sub-par games. Place blame where you will, but surely those "heading development and/or creative process" share much. If the VO director leaves, probably not a good portent, but if those directly accountable for the last decade are gone, I call it good, and more's the better. A reach and a half for sure, but one that feels like it has more of a degree of validity than what I mentioned, so there's that, I guess.
shrugs
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 1, 2021 23:16:54 GMT
Would anyone who loved (or loves) the Marvel Cinematic Universe films be upset or worried about the future of the franchise if Kevin Feige were to leave? You bet some of them would, most of them, I'm betting.
What about Sean Gantka?
Every job in the creative sphere is important to the product. But some individuals can be more easily replaced than others. And I'd submit that almost no-one is truly, utterly irreplaceable to the extent that they are the ONLY person who can do a good job in this role for this company. Sometimes when people leave, it prompts other, long timers to consider their future as well.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2021 0:24:20 GMT
Eh. Executive Producer and Studio Manager leave? Those are concerning signs. Creative Director leaves? That doesn't help. But the VO Director? Yeah, that's an important position, but Caroline leaving is nowhere near as concerning as Goldman, or Darrah and Hudson. Likewise, while the voice-acting is a prominent and important part of the game, it's nowhere near as essential as, y'know, actually heading the development and/or creative process of the entire game.I'm sorry, but calling this a sign of the end times is an absolute reach and a half.
Best of luck to Caroline.
Here's a "reach and a half" - All the so called important people named above are responsible for the Lost Decade at Biower. Some more responsible, some less, some probably not at all - but 10 years of dev hell and sub-par games. Place blame where you will, but surely those "heading development and/or creative process" share much. If the VO director leaves, probably not a good portent, but if those directly accountable for the last decade are gone, I call it good, and more's the better. It depends on who is specifically responsible for how the whats and the what fores. Which we may never know those specifics. But I will say a somewhat true to all life afferisms I have run into comes from Bill Bellichick 'Coaches don't win games, players do. Coaches lose game.' And well if there is this kind of structural problem this suggest that it was in leadership more then anything and the best 'players' cannot overcome bad leadership decisions or improper instructions and leaders wasting time trying to figure out what to do. The big question then becomes then who was exactly the coaches and who are the players in this analogy?
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Post by goishen on Dec 2, 2021 2:25:50 GMT
She's gonna land on her feet. I mean, fuck, she's going over to join Casey Hudson. BioWare is like the Titanic ATM.
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Post by githcheater on Dec 2, 2021 2:43:06 GMT
How many women at Bioware internally get management promotions? Perhaps, the opportunity for advancement within Bioware was not there for her.
For example, I sometimes wonder why Mary Kirby has not been promoted to management. Is Bioware culturally somewhat of an "old boys club"?
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 2:47:39 GMT
Would anyone who loved (or loves) the Marvel Cinematic Universe films be upset or worried about the future of the franchise if Kevin Feige were to leave? You bet some of them would, most of them, I'm betting. What about Sean Gantka? Every job in the creative sphere is important to the product. But some individuals can be more easily replaced than others. And I'd submit that almost no-one is truly, utterly irreplaceable to the extent that they are the ONLY person who can do a good job in this role for this company. Sometimes when people leave, it prompts other, long timers to consider their future as well. The only person I can think of in AAA game development that I would consider at the level of Kevin Feige is Hideo Kojima. I don't think the majority of leadership positions at BioWare come even close to the influence it sounds like he has on the games he works on. Everything I have read over the years even before EA is that BioWare (and EA) don't work on auteur theory of development and plan for departures.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 2:49:17 GMT
How many women at Bioware internally get management promotions? Perhaps, the opportunity for advancement within Bioware was not there for her. For example, I sometimes wonder why Mary Kirby has not been promoted to management. Is Bioware culturally somewhat of an "old boys club"? She might not want the beacon of being a "lead" of anything. Toxicity for what people don't like gets pretty brutal.
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Post by wright1978 on Dec 2, 2021 9:17:39 GMT
Casey having inside knowledge of who good people are that can be prised away. If she's doing her old role there does that mean humanoid Studios is more advanced in development of whatever it is it is developing?
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 2, 2021 10:38:22 GMT
I figure it's not going to be easy to replace the lost talent. I mean, who'd really want to work at a company that obviously has massive leadership problems, glorified crunch as "BioWare magic" in the past and now is mostly infamous for how hard their two most recent releases cratered?
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 2, 2021 11:53:26 GMT
I figure it's not going to be easy to replace the lost talent. I mean, who'd really want to work at a company that obviously has massive leadership problems, glorified crunch as "BioWare magic" in the past and now is mostly infamous for how hard their two most recent releases cratered? I think Anthem was the biggest blow. And probably a fatal one.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 13:37:22 GMT
I figure it's not going to be easy to replace the lost talent. I mean, who'd really want to work at a company that obviously has massive leadership problems, glorified crunch as "BioWare magic" in the past and now is mostly infamous for how hard their two most recent releases cratered? Considering the reports and investigative pieces on different studios over the years, I don't see how it would be that much harder for BioWare over other studios to find employees. Off the top of my head, there is Riot, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR, Naughty Dog, and probably more. All have had issues where there has been what I would consider bad management and mistreatment of employees. Right now I think the biggest problem is at Activision because its so persuasive, but its been pretty quiet at EA. As far as leadership problems replacing the General Manager with someone outside BioWare could be seen as a sign they are working on fixing their management issues which I think will fix crunch if successful. The crunch BioWare has done and the circumstances on why it happens is well known in the industry and even what would be considered industry norm crunch. It was just amplified to be worse with Andromeda and Anthem due to what I would agree would be what seems to be bad management which caused delays.
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Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 2, 2021 14:00:54 GMT
I figure it's not going to be easy to replace the lost talent. I mean, who'd really want to work at a company that obviously has massive leadership problems, glorified crunch as "BioWare magic" in the past and now is mostly infamous for how hard their two most recent releases cratered? Considering the reports and investigative pieces on different studios over the years, I don't see how it would be that much harder for BioWare over other studios to find employees. Off the top of my head, there is Riot, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR, Naughty Dog, and probably more. All have had issues where there has been what I would consider bad management and mistreatment of employees. Right now I think the biggest problem is at Activision because its so persuasive, but its been pretty quiet at EA. As far as leadership problems replacing the General Manager with someone outside BioWare could be seen as a sign they are working on fixing their management issues which I think will fix crunch if successful. The crunch BioWare has done and the circumstances on why it happens is well known in the industry and even what would be considered industry norm crunch. It was just amplified to be worse with Andromeda and Anthem due to what I would agree would be what seems to be bad management which caused delays. There's probably a reason why Ms Livingstone didn't pick either of those juggernauts and joined the newly formed Humanoid Studios instead. I suspect neither of them will have a particularly easy time finding new hires. It's true, crunch is all over the industry, but BioWare probably crunched for the most frustrating of reasons: not because a big game didn't get polished enough in time, but because time was wasted meandering about with no one knowing where the project was going, often for years.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 2, 2021 14:33:49 GMT
I figure it's not going to be easy to replace the lost talent. I mean, who'd really want to work at a company that obviously has massive leadership problems, glorified crunch as "BioWare magic" in the past and now is mostly infamous for how hard their two most recent releases cratered? Considering the reports and investigative pieces on different studios over the years, I don't see how it would be that much harder for BioWare over other studios to find employees. Off the top of my head, there is Riot, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR, Naughty Dog, and probably more. All have had issues where there has been what I would consider bad management and mistreatment of employees. Right now I think the biggest problem is at Activision because its so persuasive, but its been pretty quiet at EA. As far as leadership problems replacing the General Manager with someone outside BioWare could be seen as a sign they are working on fixing their management issues which I think will fix crunch if successful. The crunch BioWare has done and the circumstances on why it happens is well known in the industry and even what would be considered industry norm crunch. It was just amplified to be worse with Andromeda and Anthem due to what I would agree would be what seems to be bad management which caused delays. Would you take on a job where the GM quit after only a short appearance? Would you move cross-country for a job at a business that might go the Maxis route any moment? Into a cold climate. Kinda at the end of the World? Where you need to travel for hours when you want to travel? OK, not every job is at Edmonton, but you get the idea.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 14:34:56 GMT
Considering the reports and investigative pieces on different studios over the years, I don't see how it would be that much harder for BioWare over other studios to find employees. Off the top of my head, there is Riot, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR, Naughty Dog, and probably more. All have had issues where there has been what I would consider bad management and mistreatment of employees. Right now I think the biggest problem is at Activision because its so persuasive, but its been pretty quiet at EA. As far as leadership problems replacing the General Manager with someone outside BioWare could be seen as a sign they are working on fixing their management issues which I think will fix crunch if successful. The crunch BioWare has done and the circumstances on why it happens is well known in the industry and even what would be considered industry norm crunch. It was just amplified to be worse with Andromeda and Anthem due to what I would agree would be what seems to be bad management which caused delays. There's probably a reason why Ms Livingstone didn't pick either of those juggernauts and joined the newly formed Humanoid Studios instead. I suspect neither of them will have a particularly easy time finding new hires. It's true, crunch is all over the industry, but BioWare probably crunched for the most frustrating of reasons: not because a big game didn't get polished enough in time, but because time was wasted meandering about with no one knowing where the project was going, often for years. That might be the frustrating reason, but to me that is at the core of a lot of crunch. Bad management making bad decisions.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 14:45:47 GMT
Considering the reports and investigative pieces on different studios over the years, I don't see how it would be that much harder for BioWare over other studios to find employees. Off the top of my head, there is Riot, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR, Naughty Dog, and probably more. All have had issues where there has been what I would consider bad management and mistreatment of employees. Right now I think the biggest problem is at Activision because its so persuasive, but its been pretty quiet at EA. As far as leadership problems replacing the General Manager with someone outside BioWare could be seen as a sign they are working on fixing their management issues which I think will fix crunch if successful. The crunch BioWare has done and the circumstances on why it happens is well known in the industry and even what would be considered industry norm crunch. It was just amplified to be worse with Andromeda and Anthem due to what I would agree would be what seems to be bad management which caused delays. Would you take on a job where the GM quit after only a short appearance? Would you move cross-country for a job at a business that might go the Maxis route any moment? Into a cold climate. Kinda at the end of the World? Where you need to travel for hours when you want to travel? OK, not every job is at Edmonton, but you get the idea. If I think management for the problems I am seeing at the studio then I would consider taking the job for the company is wanting to make the changes I think they need. As far as the job disappearing like Maxis, I have the opinion that can happen with any job unless unionized and even then it can move. If I am new to the industry or don't have any attachments I am willing to move for a job even if there is risk. Edmonton is the biggest hurdle and frankly I bet its been a problem for people not native to the area for years. People have left BioWare in the past for that and probably something for people to consider. Its probably also something new people might not consider or are willing to put up with to move to Canada or leave where they are. Edit: As far as length people work at a job, its really not that long on average. I think its four to five year median for a person staying at one job.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 2, 2021 15:02:02 GMT
I think EA have axed studios for less. BW has drawn from its niche genre representation in EA's catalogue but that doesn't provide forever. We saw it cut down in size after MEA and I think it might need more, but frankly - I think the best option is to set off and start something new. Tosses over board the unrealistic expectation, pretentious ambitions and preserves artistic creativity. And having BW on the resume is still a pound on your balance. Livingstone can probably pick from a number of offers - Voice acting was one of BW's strengths after all.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 2, 2021 15:03:21 GMT
Would you take on a job where the GM quit after only a short appearance? Would you move cross-country for a job at a business that might go the Maxis route any moment? Into a cold climate. Kinda at the end of the World? Where you need to travel for hours when you want to travel? OK, not every job is at Edmonton, but you get the idea. If I think management for the problems I am seeing at the studio then I would consider taking the job for the company is wanting to make the changes I think they need. As far as the job disappearing like Maxis, I have the opinion that can happen with any job unless unionized and even then it can move. If I am new to the industry or don't have any attachments I am willing to move for a job even if there is risk. Edmonton is the biggest hurdle and frankly I bet its been a problem for people not native to the area for years. People have left BioWare in the past for that and probably something for people to consider. Its probably also something new people might not consider or are willing to put up with to move to Canada or leave where they are. Edit: As far as length people work at a job, its really not that long on average. I think its four to five year median for a person staying at one job. I am not sure about the gaming industry but I know alot of jobs now have the option of working from home. If the video game industry can do this for the most part then it will no longer be a problem if they decide to have game studios in different places. Although I wouldn't be suprised if the video game companies moved on mass to some place where they have to pay very very little taxes and with no workers rights if everyone can work from home in their own countries.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 15:28:47 GMT
If I think management for the problems I am seeing at the studio then I would consider taking the job for the company is wanting to make the changes I think they need. As far as the job disappearing like Maxis, I have the opinion that can happen with any job unless unionized and even then it can move. If I am new to the industry or don't have any attachments I am willing to move for a job even if there is risk. Edmonton is the biggest hurdle and frankly I bet its been a problem for people not native to the area for years. People have left BioWare in the past for that and probably something for people to consider. Its probably also something new people might not consider or are willing to put up with to move to Canada or leave where they are. Edit: As far as length people work at a job, its really not that long on average. I think its four to five year median for a person staying at one job. I am not sure about the gaming industry but I know alot of jobs now have the option of working from home. If the video game industry can do this for the most part then it will no longer be a problem if they decide to have game studios in different places. Although I wouldn't be suprised if the video game companies moved on mass to some place where they have to pay very very little taxes and with no workers rights if everyone can work from home in their own countries. Some studios are working on the working from home approach, but I can see it being split so you would have to be near a location for when in person activities are required. Based on my experience you are still needed to be within a certain distance for when you are needed to be at the office and the travel is on your own dime. Along with a requirement of a certain level of productivity if you don't meet that you are required to work at the office until quotas are met again. My experience, but those could be requirements. I don't see that kind of remote working being able to happen just because that means in the majority of countries you couldn't afford to live. Which means people wouldn't work there, I can see plenty of shortcuts like trying to classify employees as contractors instead like riding sharing does though.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 2, 2021 15:44:18 GMT
I think EA have axed studios for less. BW has drawn from its niche genre representation in EA's catalogue but that doesn't provide forever. We saw it cut down in size after MEA and I think it might need more, but frankly - I think the best option is to set off and start something new. Tosses over board the unrealistic expectation, pretentious ambitions and preserves artistic creativity. And having BW on the resume is still a pound on your balance. Livingstone can probably pick from a number of offers - Voice acting was one of BW's strengths after all. This doesn't mean its not another Christina Norman situation either. She replaced someone that he forums claimed was irreplaceable and the combat of Mass Effect 2 would suffer. After Mass Effect 2 she left for Riot and then the complaints were the next person couldn't replicate what she did.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 2, 2021 17:11:42 GMT
I think EA have axed studios for less. BW has drawn from its niche genre representation in EA's catalogue but that doesn't provide forever. We saw it cut down in size after MEA and I think it might need more, but frankly - I think the best option is to set off and start something new. Tosses over board the unrealistic expectation, pretentious ambitions and preserves artistic creativity. And having BW on the resume is still a pound on your balance. Livingstone can probably pick from a number of offers - Voice acting was one of BW's strengths after all. This doesn't mean its not another Christina Norman situation either. She replaced someone that he forums claimed was irreplaceable and the combat of Mass Effect 2 would suffer. After Mass Effect 2 she left for Riot and then the complaints were the next person couldn't replicate what she did. I don't know Norman. Some drama I didn't follow. What I know is that BW loses consistently key personel and keeps delivering average to sub-average new releases. In a good team noone is irreplaceable and working together isn't solo stars running shows. But you need good and strong creative leads and a captain who knows where to sail the ship and avoid the reefs. All I see is people jumping the ship. Even the captain. And the one before got gutted by thEA Pirates. And the talented peeps think they're better off at a startup. Like Livingstone.
Why do you think she might prefer that? Surely an acclaimed triple A studio should be able to give ample opportunities for career and acclaim?
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