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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 31, 2022 11:09:58 GMT
I have reservations about Shepard coming back as much as anyone but say team nostalgia wins and our favourite commander returns for ME4 - how do you create a compelling story?
Shepard's a hero. There are going to be few places in the galaxy that won't meet him with a shake of the hand or a cower in fear. My solution? I take him to the part of the galaxy that won't instantly lick his boots - where the Batarians live. I'd focus the game's story around the rebuild of Batarian society following its trashing in the Reaper war and create the story around the mending of Human-Batarian relations. What happened in Arrival was rather swept aside in ME3 and having this Batarian focus would allow for some interesting character building opportunities for Shepard - perhaps even a redemption if the player wants it so.
My fan fic aside, how would you create another compelling Shepard story?
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 31, 2022 12:47:04 GMT
I have reservations about Shepard coming back as much as anyone but say team nostalgia wins and our favourite commander returns for ME4 - how do you create a compelling story? "Team Nostalgia" is already there in the form of Liara. Like it or not. I guess I'd have Shepard dealing with the aftermath, the destruction, maybe rebuilding the galaxy and fighting pirates/slavers/dictators along the way. Working out the seat of power, which itself could be an issue. Would a Council that continuously ignored the Reaper threat be looked on favorably? Unlikely. That would cause more chaos and strife. I don't know if it's compelling because I personally wouldn't use Shepard post-war, or at least not as the lead. General, admiral or consultant would seem best.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 15:15:03 GMT
This is going to sound strange. I feel strange writing it.
Star Trek V is, IMO and many others, the very worst Star Trek (original series) movie. It takes our crew on a suicide mission where they GTA the Enterprise including later using it as a bomb.
However, there are parts of it that work for ME and Shep in particular.
They don't need to steal the Normandy, they're still on it. Shep is a hero, not a court-martialed former Admiral. However, Shep's "hero" status is relative to the number of people left alive to call him such. Batarians, even the most enlightened of them, will still harbor feelings of fear and loathing at minimum. Shep isn't universally loved in a post-Destroy universe.
So, they pick up where they left off. They need to go deal with the Leviathan first and foremost - they will never again be allowed to Dominate other species, and if that means we have to destroy them too, well ok I have a gun and I shoot things when I'm mad. Then, we get to go on an open-ended exploration run. Everything after dealing with Leviathan is optional.
No final boss. Significant, difficult mini-bosses scattered in the aether. Some content, including high-effort high-polish content, will be difficult to find and demand actual exploration. ME1 meets Death Stranding in this regard, with less DS UI handholding.
Are you a renegade fuckbag Shep that likes to rape and pillage? Go on, a faction of enemies may take you and the Normandy down as your ending. Have to be amazingly skilled to beat this fight at any difficulty, because numbers.
Are you a goody two-shoes that helps every stranger you meet and hands out credits like nu-Scrooge on Christmas day? Go on, you funded a master criminal at the worst possible moment, and again your odds are shyte without git gud 11.
Inbetween those extremes, 2-3 fanservice happy ending Shep spouse and children on the farm variations, of course with all sexual and asexual preferences available because it isn't that much more work.
Another 2-3 grey endings, depending again on the damned choices you made in the game.
Game takes place over a time span of 15 years.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 31, 2022 17:07:12 GMT
This is going to sound strange. I feel strange writing it. Star Trek V is, IMO and many others, the very worst Star Trek (original series) movie. It takes our crew on a suicide mission where they GTA the Enterprise including later using it as a bomb. However, there are parts of it that work for ME and Shep in particular. They don't need to steal the Normandy, they're still on it. Shep is a hero, not a court-martialed former Admiral. However, Shep's "hero" status is relative to the number of people left alive to call him such. Batarians, even the most enlightened of them, will still harbor feelings of fear and loathing at minimum. Shep isn't universally loved in a post-Destroy universe. So, they pick up where they left off. They need to go deal with the Leviathan first and foremost - they will never again be allowed to Dominate other species, and if that means we have to destroy them too, well ok I have a gun and I shoot things when I'm mad. Then, we get to go on an open-ended exploration run. Everything after dealing with Leviathan is optional. No final boss. Significant, difficult mini-bosses scattered in the aether. Some content, including high-effort high-polish content, will be difficult to find and demand actual exploration. ME1 meets Death Stranding in this regard, with less DS UI handholding. Are you a renegade fuckbag Shep that likes to rape and pillage? Go on, a faction of enemies may take you and the Normandy down as your ending. Have to be amazingly skilled to beat this fight at any difficulty, because numbers. Are you a goody two-shoes that helps every stranger you meet and hands out credits like nu-Scrooge on Christmas day? Go on, you funded a master criminal at the worst possible moment, and again your odds are shyte without git gud 11. Inbetween those extremes, 2-3 fanservice happy ending Shep spouse and children on the farm variations, of course with all sexual and asexual preferences available because it isn't that much more work. Another 2-3 grey endings, depending again on the damned choices you made in the game. Game takes place over a time span of 15 years. Would be interesting for sure. It sounds like Mass Effect meets Bethesda sandbox. Would be very cool to have factions that you can join and destroy. I've never been that fussed by the idea of Leviathans as Villains though. They are certainly villainous, but also they are basically just fleshy inferior reapers.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 31, 2022 17:59:24 GMT
You bring Shepard back but the question is it another clone or the "real" Shepard and did the real Shepard die at the start of ME2 and the Shepard that went through Omega 4 Relay and stopped the Reapers was just a clone or a hi-tech VI that thought it was the real Shepard. That is something that Shepard asks in the Cerberus base in ME3 but given that was basically at the start of the endgame there wasn't any time to explore any of that. I know if you bring Liara she states that she knew Shepard was real the moment she touched them again in ME2.
Now IF you absolutely must bring Shepard back that is at least IMHO a new take on the character that I would find interesting as long as you don't have Shepard and company constantly drone on and on about it. I find the ideas of having Shepard have an identity crisis and/or is suffering from imposter syndrome, very interesting and this would allow for any gaps in Shepard's memories to be explained and if you want to be free of previous romances and paragon/renegade beliefs that would be a decent way to deal with them. Also it allows for a centuries spanning time jump without making any of the endings canon and makes a lot more sense than Shepard falling through Earth's atmosphere and crash landing in a glacier for centuries.
Hell you can even do this in a direct sequel to MEA and play up the question is it the real Shepard from ME1 or another clone sent there by the Council, Cerberus, the Shadow Broker or the Benefactor in the Quarian Ark and that would make a great antagonist for Pathfinder Ryder.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 20:44:44 GMT
I guess it is a little sandboxy, and yes in my imagination lots of players might never finish the game because they are satisfied with the loop they have created for themselves on UNC 729iota. That pipe dream I described would have fully optional co-op PvE, PvP, in the cockpit and in the trenches. Maybe some more vehicle variety as well, we need a speeder. Become a real Shadow Broker, own the black market and control smuggling in your sector. Or, be the police, White Hat or Black. All that is gold does not glitter, yada yada. Maybe after dealing with <insert midpoint BBEG, I like Leviathan here because they aren't that big of a deal, can be dealt with in a number of ways etc> there is no real ending. That sounds wishy washy as hell now to me as I typed it though, so the end game needs something to tie it up. But the duration of time is crucial. This should be the last ride, if it even should happen. The voice actors are amazing, but I want the actor to be in the same age range as the character, and having a ton of future games with Commander Asskicker running around in Depends isn't really the fantasy I'm looking for. Their ages now are perfect for a "ride off into the sunset" age, and the universe we are left with should have lots of Wild West elements. For the record, Wild West is not a lawless cruel vista inhabited only by cruel evil men and abused women. That is the movies, the reality was quite different and had plenty of beautiful places and tales. It was just a box of chocolates, never know what to expect around this next mesa. Well, that was long winded. Sorry I love Hale and Meer, but Mark is a year older than me and I could give it my best effort at 50 and still be no super-soldier. Aging is a thing, it cannot be stopped and only be compensated for to a degree. It starts to bend the immersion. Hale's age is harder to track on the internet, with conflicting information but I believe she is older than Mark and if not only slightly younger. Beautiful actors both, but not the people I am looking for any longer in a super-soldier role much longer. They can certainly still play many different protagonist roles, and do any sort of supporting work.
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Aug 1, 2022 4:42:06 GMT
I say give Shepard Andersons roll let Shepard be the new protagonists mentor that sort of thing I don’t need to play as Them again but damn I would love to See Them back in the next game.
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 1, 2022 7:46:28 GMT
Wing Commander IV: The Price of Freedom handled the return of an iconic hero past his prime pretty well. A new conflict erupts, and the aging protagonist is transferred to a just as aging carrier by a resentful superior officer. But not all is as it seems in that new war, and it is up to the old guy to figure out who's really to blame for the unexplained attacks that have been happening. And the final confrontation was not a space battle, it was a senate hearing.
But this is a BioWare game, and I would greatly prefer if they left Shepard alone. I'd rather remember him as he was and not what he might turn into if written by whoever wrote MEA...
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 1, 2022 10:03:34 GMT
I say give Shepard Andersons roll let Shepard be the new protagonists mentor that sort of thing I don’t need to play as Them again but damn I would love to See Them back in the next game. Do you think Shepard could work as a fully fledged NPC? I could see myself getting a tad annoyed with Bioware completely taking hold of the character. One thought that pops to mind is the idea that was floated around with the Inquisitor's role in DA4. You could have a duel protagonist system. You could play as old man Shepard in charge of command and administration side of the game and then a secondary protagonist doing the field work. Could it work? I'm not sure but it would allow for the breaking in of a new protagonist while not completely cutting cords with Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 11:21:42 GMT
More age appropriate role, for sure. 50s Shep can still be plenty badass, see Anderson being Anderson in all 3 games.
Dual protagonist idea works for me, but it would be jarring I think for new players, and that's all the shareholders care about so unlikely at best.
Shep being NPC with their own goals and motivations? Sorry no. God no.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2022 11:26:29 GMT
I say give Shepard Andersons roll let Shepard be the new protagonists mentor that sort of thing I don’t need to play as Them again but damn I would love to See Them back in the next game. Shepard could be a mentor while still being the main character in ME4. A new squadmate joins the roster. During the game, Shepard takes time to talk with the new guy/gal about stuff in between missions. This new character could be setup to be the main character for ME5.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 1, 2022 11:32:53 GMT
More age appropriate role, for sure. 50s Shep can still be plenty badass, see Anderson being Anderson in all 3 games. Dual protagonist idea works for me, but it would be jarring I think for new players, and that's all the shareholders care about so unlikely at best. Shep being NPC with their own goals and motivations? Sorry no. God no. I know I'm in a small minority, but I found Anderson to be useless. I never cared for him. Remember this is the same guy who brought up Shepard's visions to the council expecting them to believe that. He's the same guy who said we thought you were dead. It told me he and the circus, I mean Alliance, made no effort to confirm Shepard's death or made any effort to locate the remains of the SR1 and bodies of the dead. He's the same guy who told Shepard it's up to him/her to deal with the reapers. He then turns around expecting Shepard to help them stop the reapers at the beginning of ME3. He also came up with that stupid plan about getting to the beam. Anderson would have been better off being removed after Shepard became spectre.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 12:53:27 GMT
I understand that, if you take everything that the game shows us as just so. Headcanon is necessary to put that aside and focus on the good of the character.
It's the VA for me that seals it. I will always be loyal to King.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 1, 2022 13:19:00 GMT
More age appropriate role, for sure. 50s Shep can still be plenty badass, see Anderson being Anderson in all 3 games. Dual protagonist idea works for me, but it would be jarring I think for new players, and that's all the shareholders care about so unlikely at best. Shep being NPC with their own goals and motivations? Sorry no. God no. I know I'm in a small minority, but I found Anderson to be useless. I never cared for him. Remember this is the same guy who brought up Shepard's visions to the council expecting them to believe that. He's the same guy who said we thought you were dead. It told me he and the circus, I mean Alliance, made no effort to confirm Shepard's death or made any effort to locate the remains of the SR1 and bodies of the dead. He's the same guy who told Shepard it's up to him/her to deal with the reapers. He then turns around expecting Shepard to help them stop the reapers at the beginning of ME3. He also came up with that stupid plan about getting to the beam. Anderson would have been better off being removed after Shepard became spectre. Anderson: I've basically done nothing for you Shepard: I know this but you are of great value to me
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 2, 2022 14:38:49 GMT
Finding research on a method of interstellar travel that can replace the mass relays, or on a way to repair them. The Protheans figured it out, at least in part. I'm sure the current galactic races can do the same. However, I do agree that other forms of travel are a good idea. We might not like what's on the other side of some relays. Pretty sure one of them has deadly radiation on the other side. Given that the rachni also came through a relay, it's possible that there are other beings out there we don't want to meet by jumping through a repaired relay and finding them. Instead, we could get closer with other forms of travel and then send out some probes. Or just not rely on tech that may have other traps we don't know about.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 2, 2022 21:12:08 GMT
More age appropriate role, for sure. 50s Shep can still be plenty badass, see Anderson being Anderson in all 3 games. Dual protagonist idea works for me, but it would be jarring I think for new players, and that's all the shareholders care about so unlikely at best. Shep being NPC with their own goals and motivations? Sorry no. God no. Given cybernetics and genetic modifications are a thing in this setting, characters can totally be badass well past what we would consider "prime" in this day and age. Anyway, assuming Shepard comes back: They'd have to erase the final 20-30 minutes of the game from canon. Certainly everything involving Glowjob the Starbrat. Because that whole sequence took away any sense of accomplishment from Shepard's journey. Otherwise Shep would have to de with the legacy of being a butcher, a slaver, or a eugenicist (or someone who just stood by and let the galaxy burn after making a pretty speech) So yeah, compelling story? Change the Crucible so it did SOMETHING to level the playing field between the Milky Way fleets and the reaper hordes, but overloaded the relays, making the network unusable for some time. The galaxy spends the next several years/decades rebuilding, and when the time comes to start exploring the galaxy to find out what happened to it over the years, Shepard is the first one to go exploring. It's a whole new age of exploration, but across familiar territory.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 16:37:20 GMT
I don't entirely disagree Iakus, especially in a future where progress seems to be collectively important to humans. Still, we have limits. What has caught me unexpectedly is the "premature" degradation of some of my systems. This is natural, and can be avoided to an extent with genetic modification, but we aren't changing sleeves here. So, you have a point, but it has limits and my immersion is based a little more, now, on the reality I know. Maybe that's me losing hope.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 3, 2022 16:55:42 GMT
Anyway, assuming Shepard comes back: They'd have to erase the final 20-30 minutes of the game from canon. Certainly everything involving Glowjob the Starbrat. Because that whole sequence took away any sense of accomplishment from Shepard's journey. All Bioware has to do is use the ending they told the player after the coup. Destroy. I call it Hackett's ending. Let TIM continue to believe the reapers can be controlled and the green is never brought up. Everything after Shepard passes out never happened.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 3, 2022 17:28:13 GMT
I don't entirely disagree Iakus , especially in a future where progress seems to be collectively important to humans. Still, we have limits. What has caught me unexpectedly is the "premature" degradation of some of my systems. This is natural, and can be avoided to an extent with genetic modification, but we aren't changing sleeves here. So, you have a point, but it has limits and my immersion is based a little more, now, on the reality I know. Maybe that's me losing hope. Yeah, there are limits. I believe scientists now saw the hard limit to human life expectancy is something like 120-130. Still, with genetics and cybernetic replacement (and perhaps even nanotech) The quality of that life can be substantially upgraded, I believe. Heck, Kahlee Sanders looked darn good given she was nearing 50
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 3, 2022 20:32:15 GMT
They'd have to erase the final 20-30 minutes of the game from canon. Certainly everything involving Glowjob the Starbrat. Because that whole sequence took away any sense of accomplishment from Shepard's journey Not difficult. Just erase the thing. In two choices it's asking you to commit suicide. Assume Shepard figures that out and opts to potentially survive as a human being. Or even the old "Grandpa told grandson another story".
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 3, 2022 20:40:26 GMT
Anyway, assuming Shepard comes back: They'd have to erase the final 20-30 minutes of the game from canon. Certainly everything involving Glowjob the Starbrat. Because that whole sequence took away any sense of accomplishment from Shepard's journey. All Bioware has to do is use the ending they told the player after the coup. Destroy. I call it Hackett's ending. Let TIM continue to believe the reapers can be controlled and the green is never brought up. Everything after Shepard passes out never happened. Wait! Okay, here's a thought. Destroy happens. No question. But we know that while all the husk things are turned to dust, the Reapers leave behind corpses - as do EDI and the geth. So someone loads themselves into a Reaper and you've got Control. Maybe it's even TIM and he's a threat we have to fight. Then you've got people who want synthesis and they download themselves into EDI and the geth. Perfect blend of organic and synthetic but 100% a choice. Maybe they go hang with the quarians or whatever.
In some ways this brings together all endings but not in any way we saw. Probably wouldn't work but it could be an interesting possibility. Most people would be okay with this because it's an option that allows for all involved to make a free choice. Still sucks for the geth but they'd kind of live on as the blended beings. Or, hell, they could be like the zha/zha'til or even SAM and mentally coexist. Quarians would just keep an eye on them.
Just ideas floating around in my head.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 4, 2022 3:17:36 GMT
They'd have to erase the final 20-30 minutes of the game from canon. Certainly everything involving Glowjob the Starbrat. Because that whole sequence took away any sense of accomplishment from Shepard's journey Not difficult. Just erase the thing. In two choices it's asking you to commit suicide. Assume Shepard figures that out and opts to potentially survive as a human being. Or even the old "Grandpa told grandson another story". You would think so. But Bioware has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to go over a cliff rather than do so.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 4, 2022 4:31:21 GMT
Not difficult. Just erase the thing. In two choices it's asking you to commit suicide. Assume Shepard figures that out and opts to potentially survive as a human being. Or even the old "Grandpa told grandson another story". You would think so. But Bioware has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to go over a cliff rather than do so. Maybe. But they took some serious hits with Anthem and MEA. They have to know that another failure will end their company.
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