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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 16:55:40 GMT
I would only really think that some aspects of Destroy could potentially be untrue. Like you said, we see Synthesis and Control unfold (unless they try to pull something along the lines of Synthesis having gone wrong, and it actually corrupting/harming everyone in some way). I just recently chose Destroy, and there were no cutscenes where the Geth, EDI, or any synthetics other than the Reapers are shown dying. Maybe this varies by EMS? Assuming Bioware is likely going with high EMS Destroy as canon, they'll have to base it off whatever is -- or isn't-- shown there. But assuming you made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, we see the Quarians alive and alone.. In Synthesis and Control, we see the Quarians with the Geth. In the destroy ending we also see that EDI is name is on the wall, implying that she's dead. We see flashbacks of characters that have died along ME3 and EDI always shows up in the Destroy Ending. Yeah, I got the scene with the Quarians on Rannoch, as well as EDI's nameplate. It's just that those things are almost...vague enough to give the writers some room. We don't see the dark energy pulse knock them out, and the Quarian scene isn't definitively exclusionary on its own (assuming Synthesis never happened and its content only exists in metagame, so you never have to refer to it in any meaningful way). It's a real stretch, but the writers could chalk EDI's death up to circumstance and say that the Crucible was strongly oriented toward Reaper architecture.
Either way, it's hack-y and unlikely. I'm assuming what we'll get is High EMS Destroy with no old-world synthetics present.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 25, 2022 5:29:06 GMT
Merely because it clearly wants you to chose Synthesis. It rambles on about the cost and consequences of Destroy and Control then sells you on a grand utopian resolution...it's the pretty flower of a lethal plant. And yet sometimes it only presents Destroy. Again, why would it tell you how to kill it and ruin the cycle it has been running for at least a billion years? Which coincidentally has you damaging the thing made to do that. Overall, If it’s lying about one option it’s lying about all of them. I could accept that it is lying about it all...Shep could just be hooked up like Neo in the Matrix and it's just a sim to gauge how you'll respond. Why shoot a tube...grab some power rods...jump into a power conduit? It's all allegorical...stuff manufactured in the subconscious.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Aug 25, 2022 19:56:32 GMT
I never finished ME3 with the just Destroy option but it's my understanding that when this happens, the Catalyst is not happy that you're there saying "What are you doing here?" instead of "Wake up". Also if you kept the collector base you only have Control available, right? That being said, unless they retcon the whole thing, I think the writers intended for all three options to end the cycle so the Catalyst wasn't lying about any of the options, although he clearly favors Synthesis over the other two. I agree that the Catalyst isn’t lying about any of the endings. After all we see what happens afterwards. I just get frustrated when this argument from Pro-Destroyers comes up “oh they were lying about Control/Synthesis but telling the truth about Destroy making my ending right.” Well slavery or modifying the entire galaxy against their will tend to be frowned upon by all sentients, Synthesis is a holocaust option where everyone is modified to be the new "normal" against their will and Control is the big brother knows best ending with anyone stepping out of line will get stepped on, while Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 26, 2022 6:01:30 GMT
Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price. Freedom with a cost.
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Post by winterking on Aug 26, 2022 10:11:12 GMT
And yet sometimes it only presents Destroy. Again, why would it tell you how to kill it and ruin the cycle it has been running for at least a billion years? Which coincidentally has you damaging the thing made to do that. Overall, If it’s lying about one option it’s lying about all of them. I could accept that it is lying about it all...Shep could just be hooked up like Neo in the Matrix and it's just a sim to gauge how you'll respond. Why shoot a tube...grab some power rods...jump into a power conduit? It's all allegorical...stuff manufactured in the subconscious. That's basically what the indoctrination theory is. The entire sequence after Shepard is hit by Harbinger beam is not real. The theory goes that the indoctrination fails if Shepard picks destroy. And that's why we get the breathe scene in what it looks to be ruins of London. Shepard never really left London. Of course, not only have writers said that it's not true, Indoctrination theory leaves the trilogy without a proper ending.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 26, 2022 12:06:29 GMT
I agree that the Catalyst isn’t lying about any of the endings. After all we see what happens afterwards. I just get frustrated when this argument from Pro-Destroyers comes up “oh they were lying about Control/Synthesis but telling the truth about Destroy making my ending right.” Well slavery or modifying the entire galaxy against their will tend to be frowned upon by all sentients, Synthesis is a holocaust option where everyone is modified to be the new "normal" against their will and Control is the big brother knows best ending with anyone stepping out of line will get stepped on, while Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price. You got the war crimes mixed up. Destroy is the holocaust option, by every definition of the term (sacrifice, thorough destruction, mass slaughter).
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Post by Iakus on Aug 26, 2022 15:23:11 GMT
Well slavery or modifying the entire galaxy against their will tend to be frowned upon by all sentients, Synthesis is a holocaust option where everyone is modified to be the new "normal" against their will and Control is the big brother knows best ending with anyone stepping out of line will get stepped on, while Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price. You got the war crimes mixed up. Destroy is the holocaust option, by every definition of the term (sacrifice, thorough destruction, mass slaughter). Green is eugenics. It's forcibly turning everyone in the galaxy into the Reapers' concept of Aryan ubermesnch so they can avoid the camps...
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Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2022 18:36:45 GMT
Well slavery or modifying the entire galaxy against their will tend to be frowned upon by all sentients, Synthesis is a holocaust option where everyone is modified to be the new "normal" against their will and Control is the big brother knows best ending with anyone stepping out of line will get stepped on, while Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price. You got the war crimes mixed up. Destroy is the holocaust option, by every definition of the term (sacrifice, thorough destruction, mass slaughter). So it's ok to force the green crap on the galaxy letting the reapers go unpunished for the harvesting they've done for over a billion years? When you say holocaust, you mean the geth going bye, bye when red is chosen. Do you feel the same if the quarians wipeout the geth? Either way, anyone who does not make peace between the geth and quarians, then chooses the red is a murderer. Isn't that what you have said?
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Post by helios969 on Aug 27, 2022 6:30:06 GMT
Indoctrination theory leaves the trilogy without a proper ending. Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 27, 2022 9:33:20 GMT
Indoctrination theory leaves the trilogy without a proper ending. Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending? We did have a proper ending. An ending doesn’t need to be a happily ever after in order to be a proper ending. Shepard’s story was about stopping the Reaper threat, and they achieved that with any of the three endings.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 27, 2022 11:55:52 GMT
Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending? We did have a proper ending. An ending doesn’t need to be a happily ever after in order to be a proper ending. Shepard’s story was about stopping the Reaper threat, and they achieved that with any of the three endings. By proper I meant not dumb.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2022 15:44:31 GMT
We did have a proper ending. An ending doesn’t need to be a happily ever after in order to be a proper ending. Shepard’s story was about stopping the Reaper threat, and they achieved that with any of the three endings. By proper I meant not dumb. I've seen dumb endings. This goes way beyond dumb. It actually hurt my brain.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 27, 2022 16:23:53 GMT
Hmmm...does anyone feel like we had a "proper" ending? We did have a proper ending. An ending doesn’t need to be a happily ever after in order to be a proper ending. Shepard’s story was about stopping the Reaper threat, and they achieved that with any of the three endings. I got my happy and proper ending. It's called destroy. Didn't matter if ems was high or low. The reapers are destroyed. excellent.
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Post by Arcian on Aug 27, 2022 17:05:05 GMT
Well, no. Intergalactic space is extraordinarily empty in terms of gas, just one atom per cubic meter. The Arks are the biggest ships ever built by the modern cycle, so they would have to consume an ungodly amount of fuel to accelerate all their mass. The Codex entry for the ODSY Drive in Andromeda states the Arks use hydrogen to synthesize fuel. One gram of hydrogen contains one mol of hydrogen atoms, which is 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. There are 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters in one light year. 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 divided by 9,460,730,472,580,800 is 63,658,086. 63,658,086 is the number of light years the Ark would have to travel to collect one gram of hydrogen from intergalactic space. That's over 25 times the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Even if you posit that the electromagnetic ramjet can collect 1 million hydrogen atoms a second (meaning the area of the ramjet covers 1 million cubic meters in front of the ship), that's still 63.6 light years for one gram of hydrogen, for a total of 39.3 kilograms of hydrogen over the course of the entire journey to Andromeda. As for the discharge problem, while not quite as egregious as the example above, it still leaves out the fact that the conversion from static electricity to usable power isn't 100% efficient and created waste heat that has nowhere to go besides back into the hull due to the intergalactic vaccum. Ergo, the heat will feed back into the Ark's hull and ultimately cook the crew alive (just like not discharging the drive would do). So by solving the discharge problem, they have created the exact same problem the solution was meant to solve, except with an additional step. Just as added insult to the injury, the Arks extraordinary mass means they reach discharge saturation much, much quicker than a vessel like the Normandy, which makes the above problem even worse. If you're thinking right now, "Damn, it sounds like BioWare just threw this stuff in so they could make the deadline." you'd be correct. There was no real reflection on the concept of the Ark and how it's supposed to work, they had already made up their minds about going to Andromeda despite it being impossible according to their own lore, and had to make something up to make the technology sound plausible even though it isn't, once again, according to their own lore. Looking at your calculations, you seem to have made some questionable choices in your approach. When you divide a number of atoms by a distance, you get a number of atoms per unit of said distance - 63 658 086 atoms per 1 meter. I think you're confused about the numbers here, a cubic meter of intergalactic space contains one atom which means you need to travel a distance in meters equal to the number of atoms in a mol of hydrogen (602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms) in order to collect a mol of hydrogen, which is 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 meters. What I wanted wasn't the number of atoms per meter, but the number of light years I could divide 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 meters into, which, given that one light year is 9,460,730,472,580,800 meters, is 63,658,086 light years. Ergo, given that the number of meters in intergalactic space is equivalent to the number of atoms in that same distance of space in meters, in order to collect one mol of hydrogen from the intergalactic medium you would need to travel 602,252,000,000,000,000,000,000 meters or 63,658,086 light years. Thus, assuming that the space contains just 1 mol hydrogen per 1 light year and considering that the ships move much faster than 1 m/s, they will scoop way more atoms per second than just 1 million of you second assumption. The "per second" part was an oversight on my part, what I really should have written was "per meter of distance travelled." as the former becomes meaningless (or more accurately, a real bitch to calculate for a brain like mine) when taking velocity into account. So, if the ramjet scoop is large enough that it collects 1 million atoms for every meter of distance traveled, it will collect a mol or gram of hydrogen for 63.6 light years travelled. Divide the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda (2,500,000 light years) by this distance, and you get 39,308.1761 mol/grams of hydrogen, or 39.3 kilograms of hydrogen. That is a very small amount of fuel for a spacecraft with the length and mass of a mid-sized space station travelling at FTL speeds non-stop for 634 years. On the topic of "space is empty" - here is something that caught my eye some time ago: Our current understanding of the universe is constantly changing and tbh still isn't too far away from a bunch of prehistoric shamans telling wild stories about people in the sky to their kids. That article talks about galactic space, though, where the density of atoms is about a million times higher (from 1 atom/cubic meter in intergalactic space to 1 atom/cubic centimeter in galactic space). Also, we can only work with the evidence we have currently, not speculate based on evidence we may or may not find in the future. As to heat dissipation and other problems - IMO we need to consider that the "mass effect" is something of a wild card in term of opening up technological progress. For example: heat is just a light/electromagnetic wave susceptible to influence of gravity which is in turn manipulated by the mass effect, therefore for all we know large scale heat dissipation in space could amount to laser beams being emitted from the spaceship, adding to the lighting effect already established by the lore(the way Normandy is pictured during faster than light travel). Neat idea, but this is an extratextual idea with no basis in the text itself = not in the game, so we can't really use it as an explanation for anything. But I do get what you want to express and what AnDromedary also wrote:
The whole easy and convenient travel to Andromeda not being set up "properly" devalues the general Mass Effect setting where sentient species of the galaxy were apparently volutarely or not in some way bound to Milky Way and Mass Effect relays were central to space travel. Why would Proteans hide on Ilos when they could flee to Andromeda? Why wasn't there much more travel between the galaxies between the 50000 year destruction cycles? Exactly. Even if Andromeda's idea of "Oh, we need to go to Andromeda for the purposes of resources and colonization even though the Milky Way is full of untapped planets" was stupid af, there's still a powerful scientific incentive to make the journey, partly to see if it is at all possible, and to see how life has evolved in a galaxy different from our own. So if it was technologically possible by the standards of the non-Reapers, then someone, at some point, possibly the Protheans given their ultra-expansionistic mindset, would've done it long before the AI did. Maybe these questions could be adressed in the next game in an interesting way. Which is why I am strictly opposing any sort of reboot, remake or similar demands regarding ME3 trilogy or ME:A. What we've got towards the end of ME3 wasn't to our full satisfaction and ME:A was certainly a bit of a train wreck, but IMO nothing of this is unsalvageable. I'm not really against BioWare continuing the Andromeda spinoff series per se (as long as it doesn't detract from the development and release of mainline series games), I just think they will open a big f'n can of worms by trivializing intergalactic space travel to the point where Ryder and/or Shepard can go back and forth like it's a daily commute. People have proposed relays as a solution to that problem, but they have fairly established range limits in the lore (about a hundreds light years for secondary relays, about a thousand for primary relays), and only the Citadel, the Omega Relay and the Alpha Relay - all special Reaper builds - are known to be an exception to that rule. Given that none of these were ever demonstrated to have a range limit exceeding the diameter of the Milky Way (i.e, ~100,000 light years), it's not reasonable to assume they've been built to bridge a distance 25 times as long. Plus, 1) the AI doesn't know how to build Relays, 2) even if they did, the relay must be paired to a twin in the Milky Way and we have absolutely no clue how that's done, especially over a distance of 2.5 million light years, and 3) if either the AI or the Milky Way civilization built a pair, linked them, and hauled one twin from one galaxy to the other in order to bridge the two galaxies, that'd still take 634 more years before ME4's story can begin. This means the story would have to take place well into the 35th century, where Ryder, Liara and possibly even Grunt would be long dead of old age (though the jury's still out on that last one, krogan may actually be biologically immortal) and kinda blow a Reaper-sized hole in the whole "Let's combine Shepard and Ryder's stories"-idea that people seem to love so much. Setting aside the stupidity of stringing together three Mass Relays to make a telescope (that's not how Mass Relays work, after all), anyone who's read the codex from the first three games knows that the basic premise of going to Andromeda is physically impossible according to the rules of Mass Effect FTL travel. FTL drives need to regularly discharge the static build up in the drive cores, and regular propulsion drives (which actually propel the ship during FTL) need to refuel, neither of which you can do in intergalatic space due to the lack of stars and planets. You're wrong about a couple things. 1. The trilogy does not establish that. In fact it establishes the opposite since Reaper drives do not fall under that limitation. No doubt the Reapers just made it seem as such to limit a cycle’s engines making them easier to trap. 2. About half the stars in the universe are believed to exist in the Dark Space between galaxies. 1. We have no evidence that Reapers can travel forever without refueling or discharging their drive. We can reasonably assume that they can travel around 32,000 light years without refueling or discharging their drives, given that it took them 3 years to arrive in the galaxy in 2186 after waking up and beginning their long-distance drive after Sovereign's death in 2183 (30 light years/day x 365 x 3 = 32,850 light years), but that's only around 1.3% of the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. 2. Which is neat but meaningless since the distance between any two stars in the intergalactic medium is so vast that any galactic drive core will overload long before it has the chance to discharge its drive. Only the Reapers *might* be able to make use of intergalactic stars, and the Arks are obviously not Reapers.
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 27, 2022 17:25:50 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option -
Refuse!
Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2022 20:32:32 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Refuse has Bioware flip the table and declare "Rocks fall, everyone dies!" because we called them on their BS "Art"
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Post by Arcian on Aug 27, 2022 22:50:53 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Refuse has Bioware flip the table and declare "Rocks fall, everyone dies!" because we called them on their BS "Art" Yeah it definitely felt like a big middle finger to everyone who wanted the Catalyst to go fuck itself.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 27, 2022 23:26:05 GMT
Well slavery or modifying the entire galaxy against their will tend to be frowned upon by all sentients, Synthesis is a holocaust option where everyone is modified to be the new "normal" against their will and Control is the big brother knows best ending with anyone stepping out of line will get stepped on, while Destroy while not a clean ending at the very least ends the Reaper threat and allows people the chance to rebuild and start again albeit with great hardship and with Edi and the Geth paying the ultimate price. You got the war crimes mixed up. Destroy is the holocaust option, by every definition of the term (sacrifice, thorough destruction, mass slaughter). This. People who pick destroy are not people I would trust with my watch.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 28, 2022 4:17:16 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Better yet, do the fail ending to ME2. That's basically the best way to avoid Starkid's BS.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 28, 2022 5:23:35 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Better yet, do the fail ending to ME2. That's basically the best way to avoid Starkid's BS.
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Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 28, 2022 15:52:51 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Refuse has Bioware flip the table and declare "Rocks fall, everyone dies!" because we called them on their BS "Art" Exactly! Give the middle finger to Hudson and (not-so-super)Mac. At least Mr Artistic Integrity Hudson is gone, but that cockroach Mac is still around. Leads to an interesting comparative question; which team whiffed the ending to a beloved franchise more, Beniott\Weiss with Game of Thrones, or Hudson\Walters with ME3?
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Post by themikefest on Aug 28, 2022 16:33:48 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Refuse turns the hero into a dumba**. Shepard, or rather dumba**, and t'soni place the capsules after dumba** refused to do nothing? I would be curious what mickey mouse nonsense dumba** came up with why the crucible wasn't used. According to holo-t'soni, it didn't work. The story teller mentions to the little one they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to. Little one says is that why we have peace? So someone finds this capsule, listens to it, then takes it to his/her leader(s) who then decide yeah, let's build this thing to be used before these reapers show up? Once it's attached, what happened? There is no beam to go up to the spot where dumba** has the encounter with TIM. They likely flew their transport to lala land. They, at least I would believe they, encounter thing. What form is it in? It wouldn't be in human form, would it? Does it say the same as when it was facing dumba**? When it came to making a choice, who took one for the team? On Thessia, Vendetta said past cycles have added something. Perhaps the next cycle added something that didn't require someone to die? Would thing mention dumba** had the opportunity to stop them but chose not to? If it did, I would be curious to see the look on the one(s) facing thing. Since the little one says peace, does that mean there wasn't before the crucible was used? If not, were they in conflict with synthetics built by them? In our cycle, to get peace the geth had to upload reaper code. That would be hard to do in their cycle if the reapers are in darkspace. The only way for peace, if one wants to call it that is if the blue or green was chosen. After listening to thing, the one(s) facing it realized by choosing the red, they not only end the conflict with the synthetics, but end whatever threat the reapers pose. If they did choose red, would they be called murderers? One thing I like to know is how long after the crucible was used, was the story told to the little one. Is thing lying? Could it be misleading? One thing is for sure it's wrong when it says it's something that can't be forced. It is forced. Throughout the trilogy, Shepard has seen what happens when someone is indoctrinated. The reapers are the only ones to do that. Leviathan can as well, but they aren't harvesting. The player sees Saren try to convince Shepard the reaper way is the right way. See Kenson go full blown nutso. And see TIM go nuts. If the player encounters Balak, he tells what happened. Even Vendetta mentions the protheans wanted to destroy the reapers, but a group, who turned out to be indoctrinated, wanted to control the reapers. The project was sabotaged. When facing TIM, he's under their control. This confirmed by thing. Anderson ends up being shot. Shepard is seen in pain when placing her/his hand to their head. Like Kaidan says on Thessia, deja'vu. After the coup, Shepard learns the one's building the crucible say it has enough energy to destroy the reapers. In the game Hackett says dead reapers is how we win this war. Anderson says we destroy them or they destroy us. When facing thing, the one controlling the reapers, the enemy, is the one giving the information what each choice will do? Why would you believe what it says? Green is what thing wants. It didn't say in those words, but when it says it's the ideal solution, it's indicating that is what it wants. Blue is what TIM wanted but look at what wanting to control led to? With red....red is what were told the crucible would do by the one's building the crucible. They never mentioned a blue or green. I trust them more than I would trust the one that controls the reapers. One thing is the condition Shepard is in when facing dumb, dumb. He/she had their bell rung pretty good. So Shepard isn't exactly all there when facing thing. That is a bit of an advantage for thing. I understand Shepard is strong willed but being shot by Harbinger, it would take time to get your head back in the game. Maybe that's why Shepard didn't pressure thing with more questions. When facing thing, it takes the form of a human child, a child seen at the beginning of ME3 then in Shepard's dreams/nightmares. Did it do that to gain sympathy? Whatever sympathy there was, went out the window the moment it mentioned it controls the reapers. Does the child exist? Is it in Shepard's head. The child is seen at the very beginning of ME3. He's later seen in the vent though a player can see him somehow climb over the railing of the building before running to a door that is locked that the kid, using the jedi mind trick, forced it open. Before seeing the kid in the vent, Shepard pushed the door open for Anderson to get through. Shepard hears a noise. The time that past from that moment until Anderson shows up is about 30 seconds. What was Anderson doing in that time? Did he run forward only to realize Shepard isn't with him? Why didn't he question Shepard about being crouched in front of vent? What about what the kid said? You can't help me. Why would a kid say that? Is it Bioware's way of saying everyone can't be saved/helped? This could be a reason to remake ME3. Shepard was taking a nap while under false arrest having a nightmare. Regardless of the above, the game gives me no reason to choose the blue or green. Both have the reapers remain which is a big no-go.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2022 17:22:20 GMT
If it did, I would be curious to see the look on the one(s) facing thing. Since the little one says peace, does that mean there wasn't before the crucible was used? If Shepard refused to "play the game" then what's the point of the capsules? If doing anything the Starbrat says is wrong then why would anything ever get done in regard to the Reapers? Wouldn't the "right" decision always be Refuse? This is why that ending is 100% stupid. You'd just have to assume Shepard was actually brain dead to make that choice. At minimum, the next cycle still has to deal with organic/synthetic war and the Reapers still roll in and cause immeasurable death before the Crucible is put online. The Protheans left a lot behind but even they sat on the info they had for thousands of years. Why assume the next cycle would be any different? No, that choice makes absolutely no sense. At least with the other ones Shepard could take a chance that it might work out. Even Synthesis would be a 1000% better than fucking the current cycle and who knows how many to come. No rational person could ever thing Refuse is a good option, at least not of logic enters the equation on any level. And then there's what you said. The "Shepard" of the next cycle finds out all of the death and destruction they're experiencing could have been prevented if only some asshole hadn't screwed over everyone out of spite.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 28, 2022 19:43:44 GMT
If it did, I would be curious to see the look on the one(s) facing thing. Since the little one says peace, does that mean there wasn't before the crucible was used? If Shepard refused to "play the game" then what's the point of the capsules? If doing anything the Starbrat says is wrong then why would anything ever get done in regard to the Reapers? Wouldn't the "right" decision always be Refuse? This is why that ending is 100% stupid. You'd just have to assume Shepard was actually brain dead to make that choice. At minimum, the next cycle still has to deal with organic/synthetic war and the Reapers still roll in and cause immeasurable death before the Crucible is put online. The Protheans left a lot behind but even they sat on the info they had for thousands of years. Why assume the next cycle would be any different? No, that choice makes absolutely no sense. At least with the other ones Shepard could take a chance that it might work out. Even Synthesis would be a 1000% better than fucking the current cycle and who knows how many to come. No rational person could ever thing Refuse is a good option, at least not of logic enters the equation on any level. And then there's what you said. The "Shepard" of the next cycle finds out all of the death and destruction they're experiencing could have been prevented if only some asshole hadn't screwed over everyone out of spite. Starbrat: You have it in your power to destroy us Shepard: *shoots the tube* *Resulting fireball incinerates Shepard* Starbrat: I can't believe that actually worked!
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Post by Spectr61 on Aug 28, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
All the above arguments about how bad the various endings choices are only reinforces what is, for me, the only option - Refuse! Don't play the brats shitty little game of Hobson Choices. Refuse, stay true to yourself, and hope the beacons that you and Liara spread around help the next cycle finally put down the Starbrat and his minions. Refuse turns the hero into a dumba**. Shepard, or rather dumba**, and t'soni place the capsules after dumba** refused to do nothing? I would be curious what mickey mouse nonsense dumba** came up with why the crucible wasn't used. According to holo-t'soni, it didn't work. The story teller mentions to the little one they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to. Little one says is that why we have peace? So someone finds this capsule, listens to it, then takes it to his/her leader(s) who then decide yeah, let's build this thing to be used before these reapers show up? Once it's attached, what happened? There is no beam to go up to the spot where dumba** has the encounter with TIM. They likely flew their transport to lala land. They, at least I would believe they, encounter thing. What form is it in? It wouldn't be in human form, would it? Does it say the same as when it was facing dumba**? When it came to making a choice, who took one for the team? On Thessia, Vendetta said past cycles have added something. Perhaps the next cycle added something that didn't require someone to die? Would thing mention dumba** had the opportunity to stop them but chose not to? If it did, I would be curious to see the look on the one(s) facing thing. Since the little one says peace, does that mean there wasn't before the crucible was used? If not, were they in conflict with synthetics built by them? In our cycle, to get peace the geth had to upload reaper code. That would be hard to do in their cycle if the reapers are in darkspace. The only way for peace, if one wants to call it that is if the blue or green was chosen. After listening to thing, the one(s) facing it realized by choosing the red, they not only end the conflict with the synthetics, but end whatever threat the reapers pose. If they did choose red, would they be called murderers? One thing I like to know is how long after the crucible was used, was the story told to the little one. Is thing lying? Could it be misleading? One thing is for sure it's wrong when it says it's something that can't be forced. It is forced. Throughout the trilogy, Shepard has seen what happens when someone is indoctrinated. The reapers are the only ones to do that. Leviathan can as well, but they aren't harvesting. The player sees Saren try to convince Shepard the reaper way is the right way. See Kenson go full blown nutso. And see TIM go nuts. If the player encounters Balak, he tells what happened. Even Vendetta mentions the protheans wanted to destroy the reapers, but a group, who turned out to be indoctrinated, wanted to control the reapers. The project was sabotaged. When facing TIM, he's under their control. This confirmed by thing. Anderson ends up being shot. Shepard is seen in pain when placing her/his hand to their head. Like Kaidan says on Thessia, deja'vu. After the coup, Shepard learns the one's building the crucible say it has enough energy to destroy the reapers. In the game Hackett says dead reapers is how we win this war. Anderson says we destroy them or they destroy us. When facing thing, the one controlling the reapers, the enemy, is the one giving the information what each choice will do? Why would you believe what it says? Green is what thing wants. It didn't say in those words, but when it says it's the ideal solution, it's indicating that is what it wants. Blue is what TIM wanted but look at what wanting to control led to? With red....red is what were told the crucible would do by the one's building the crucible. They never mentioned a blue or green. I trust them more than I would trust the one that controls the reapers. One thing is the condition Shepard is in when facing dumb, dumb. He/she had their bell rung pretty good. So Shepard isn't exactly all there when facing thing. That is a bit of an advantage for thing. I understand Shepard is strong willed but being shot by Harbinger, it would take time to get your head back in the game. Maybe that's why Shepard didn't pressure thing with more questions. When facing thing, it takes the form of a human child, a child seen at the beginning of ME3 then in Shepard's dreams/nightmares. Did it do that to gain sympathy? Whatever sympathy there was, went out the window the moment it mentioned it controls the reapers. Does the child exist? Is it in Shepard's head. The child is seen at the very beginning of ME3. He's later seen in the vent though a player can see him somehow climb over the railing of the building before running to a door that is locked that the kid, using the jedi mind trick, forced it open. Before seeing the kid in the vent, Shepard pushed the door open for Anderson to get through. Shepard hears a noise. The time that past from that moment until Anderson shows up is about 30 seconds. What was Anderson doing in that time? Did he run forward only to realize Shepard isn't with him? Why didn't he question Shepard about being crouched in front of vent? What about what the kid said? You can't help me. Why would a kid say that? Is it Bioware's way of saying everyone can't be saved/helped? This could be a reason to remake ME3. Shepard was taking a nap while under false arrest having a nightmare. RegardlessZx of the above, the game gives me no reason to choose the blue or green. Both have the reapers remain which is a big no-go. Uhh, could I have the short version please? BLUF: Brat has an agenda. Brat wants you to pick one of his desired outcomes. Don't do what Brat wants.
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